Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Well if it work out perhaps they can be bought for a fee in January - if they are ****e - just send them back. Loans are good things - at least when they are as long as 6 months. Err, no they are not. If they are no good then why sign them in the first place? Nobody seems to know anything about this lad. My guess would be that he has a similar level of experience as Lancashire . All that happens is you end up with someone for 6 months that adds nothing to the squad. If he goes back in Jan then we are left with a problem, and have to go through the whole process again, looking for another defender on a 6 month loan. The problem is that we don't have a single centre back who is any good. We should be looking to buy 2 players who can build a central defensive partnership that will become a solid unit for years to come. We should also be looking to buy a striker who can partner Lambert and form a striking partnership. I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond.
SET Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I wonder if many of You actually watch football. All This negativity about loans. Birmingham have twice been promoted off the back of loans.
Foxstone Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I wonder if many of You actually watch football. All This negativity about loans. Birmingham have twice been promoted off the back of loans. As were Sunderland a couple of seasons back ( 3 of their first choice defenders in their impressive run-in were loanees), and WBA and Stoke... etc, etc ! Loans can work just as well but without the risk of splashing out on a long contract for somebody with only half a heart ( Saga anybody)?
merrimd Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond. Am I the only one who finds that funny. Having a pop for not finding any decent players, then backing it up with proof that we have! Loans are probably the ONLY way we will be able to get CCC/Prem quality players when we are so far adrift at the foot of the table. Come January we will hopefully have got ourselves into a decent position in the table and we will then be able to pick up more players who will push us on. I am afraid, we will have to be patient. However 4 permanent and 2 loan signings, all of which are quality players, is all movement in the right direction for me.
madruss Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 This is bull****. Why are we taking players on 6 month loan deals? We are supposed to be building a team that will get us out of L1. Have we not learned the lesson with loan players? Part of the reason for our demise over the last few seasons has been because we've had too many loanees who are not commited enough because thay have no passion for the club. Rasiak's been on a 4 year contract yet I can think of quite a few loan players we've had in that time that have shown a lot more passion than he's ever done..Chaplow, Guthrie, Cork, all excellent loans that added real benefit to the side
Doctoroncall Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 bit of a worry that AP has worked "non stop" trying to sign a CB and when he does he signs some unknown, unproven youngster on loan!? Keeps talking about team needing experience but then looks to give other teams unexperienced players some experience. Hope he knows what he's doing........Preston fans seem to have mixed opinions. ahh well I will give him a chance - still think we need another CB (Jaidi mold) losing both Perry and Thomas from the team would be good. At least he does have some league experience although limited. An experienced CB is still a must have. Whether someone like that is out there for Saints to buy is looking remote and while JPS has his faults I'd take him above Thomas and Lancashire.
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I think AP has a set criteria for purchases of players eg ability, age etc thats why we have bought the players we have - there are long term plans. If thats the case then I suspect that AP will have identified who he wants and will get them but that could be hampered by the fact that we have 2 strikers that want to leave who are both high wage earners (as alluded to by Dubai Phil). This guy may or may not fullfill APs exact requirements but by the lokk of thing he will do the job and if he plays well may just get a contract offer. Contrary to some beliefs I beleive AP knows what hes doing he can't help the fact that the best part of his squad just have no desire, determination or bravery.
Doctoroncall Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I wonder if many of You actually watch football. All This negativity about loans. Birmingham have twice been promoted off the back of loans. unlike Norwich last season! The fact whether a player is a loan or not shouldn't matter, it's getting the right player in that counts to make the team work well on the pitch.
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Am I the only one who finds that funny. Having a pop for not finding any decent players, then backing it up with proof that we have! Loans are probably the ONLY way we will be able to get CCC/Prem quality players when we are so far adrift at the foot of the table. Come January we will hopefully have got ourselves into a decent position in the table and we will then be able to pick up more players who will push us on. I am afraid, we will have to be patient. However 4 permanent and 2 loan signings, all of which are quality players, is all movement in the right direction for me. Where did I have a pop about not being able to find decent players? I clearly state that we've found the likes of Lambert and Hammond, so why can't we find defenders who can add some qulaity to the squad instead of taking people on loan. People who are not even proven at CCC level! Birmingham may have been promoted twice with loads of loan players. On the other side, we've been relegated twice with too many loan players!
eurosaint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Does anyone else see the irony of complaining about loans and then demanding the return of Saeijs who made an impact here while on LOAN from Roda ????
Crowds Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Looks exactly what we need, happy with that. Now just to find jaidi a work permit and that could be the defence sorted!!
oxfordshire_saint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I don't see why people are moaning about this one, we're a League One club now FFS. Given our flaws at the back, signing a mobile, giant of a centre-back, albeit on loan, is a bit of a coup. Let's see who's moaning when he nods in the opener against Brentford!
dubai_phil Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I think AP has a set criteria for purchases of players eg ability, age etc thats why we have bought the players we have - there are long term plans. If thats the case then I suspect that AP will have identified who he wants and will get them but that could be hampered by the fact that we have 2 strikers that want to leave who are both high wage earners (as alluded to by Dubai Phil). This guy may or may not fullfill APs exact requirements but by the lokk of thing he will do the job and if he plays well may just get a contract offer. Contrary to some beliefs I beleive AP knows what hes doing he can't help the fact that the best part of his squad just have no desire, determination or bravery. lol don't drop me in the sh1t! The alluded to was that Echo article last season :cool: One other point about loans as we have heard in the rumours from Brizzle about Holmes, some higher clubs contact lower league clubs and ASK them to take players on loan and actually PAY a proportion of their wages. So you get a useful squad player in at no great expense while you search for the player you need to fit your style.. After all, when you buy a car or a house, most sane people don't buy the first one they see at the asking price. They check out the alternatives and try and negotiate. THAT can delay things, especially if, for example, a Higher league club has a CB that we want to buy, then they may want to get a replacement first... Sort of Lescott - like saga... We don't KNOW who else is around that AP wants in HIS team
Chez Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I thought I knew allt he decent young dentre backs out there in leaguers 1 and 2 but obviously I don't as I don't know this young fella, but if Preston are willing to stump up £500,000 for him then you'd got to think he has something abotu him as they don't ever spend any money and they do usually unearth some decent centre backs. To be honest anyone is going to be better than what we have. I'd like to see another CB as well perhaps even bigger than 6'2".
surrey1saint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 IMO a good addition to squad. i think we should bring in JPS as well.
badgerx16 Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Sat next to a PNE supporter; says he's good, but has had a number of injuries.
Scummer Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Sort of Lescott - like saga... What are you on about?!?! Lescott is nothing like Saga.
Wes Tender Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I'm judging this one in the light of Pardew's record so far on his other signings. So far, they have been pretty good. Even if it transpires that this signing is not up to the standard of the rest, it is a loan, so we have the facility effectively to have the equivalent of a test drive when thinking of buying a car. Nearly everybody on here recognises the shortcomings of our defence and has been screaming out for it to be addressed. It seems to me that Pardew has not been slow at reaching the right conclusions here. We might gripe about what seemed to be the tactical naivety shown at Swindon, but it looks as if a stronger team is under construction in a relatively short timespan to replace the poor quality of what he inherited.
Stepgar Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I seem to remember people shouting off when we signed one size and then later we signed jack cork. Both before that I never heard of them but boy were we gutted when they left. Another springs to mind in danny Guthrie come on peole open your mind.
SaintRichmond Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Welcome Mr Trott That's all we need ...... a Team with the Trott's .........
SaintRichmond Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I thought I knew allt he decent young dentre backs out there in leaguers 1 and 2 but obviously I don't as I don't know this young fella, but if Preston are willing to stump up £500,000 for him then you'd got to think he has something abotu him as they don't ever spend any money and they do usually unearth some decent centre backs. To be honest anyone is going to be better than what we have. I'd like to see another CB as well perhaps even bigger than 6'2". Unfortunately True ......... (Funny though)
sidthesquid Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Does make you laugh all the comments about "another youngster" at 22!! In the Saints team from last year at 22 most of them will have been on the front line for 6 years! When Michael Owen was picked for England against Argentina in France '98 some folks from here must have been having coronaries.......... Have you notice how the coppers look younger these days ;-) I noticed that the CB who scored against us for Swindon was only 18
Chez Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I seem to remember people shouting off when we signed one size and then later we signed jack cork. Both before that I never heard of them but boy were we gutted when they left. Another springs to mind in danny Guthrie come on peole open your mind. Agreed. Guthrie was absolutely superb for us and perhaps more important than the Saga loan signing. If the players that come in are better than the ones you have it doesn't matter if they are loans or not. I welcome the lad with open arms. I've been critical of Perry and Thomas for longer than I can remember so seeing any alternative makes me happy.
Greenridge Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Err, no they are not. If they are no good then why sign them in the first place? Nobody seems to know anything about this lad. My guess would be that he has a similar level of experience as Lancashire . All that happens is you end up with someone for 6 months that adds nothing to the squad. If he goes back in Jan then we are left with a problem, and have to go through the whole process again, looking for another defender on a 6 month loan. The problem is that we don't have a single centre back who is any good. We should be looking to buy 2 players who can build a central defensive partnership that will become a solid unit for years to come. We should also be looking to buy a striker who can partner Lambert and form a striking partnership. I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond. You seem to have countered your own argument there. I have no problem with short term loan signings if it gives us an immediate impact and a little breathing space to find the right player which may or may not involve money. We've made enough knee-jerk signings in the last few years to last us a lifetime but unfortunately the players rarely last five minutes...figuratively speaking. I agree, ideally we need a pairing at CB than can form a partnership but history tells us this is not an easy task. We have to give AP some time to formulate his plans, put his backroom staffing / scouting structure in place and put together a team of his own making that can play in a style dictated by himself.
St.Patrik Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Its strange that the Echo hasnt caught this yet : )
SaintRichmond Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 (edited) Err, no they are not. If they are no good then why sign them in the first place? Nobody seems to know anything about this lad. My guess would be that he has a similar level of experience as Lancashire . All that happens is you end up with someone for 6 months that adds nothing to the squad. If he goes back in Jan then we are left with a problem, and have to go through the whole process again, looking for another defender on a 6 month loan. The problem is that we don't have a single centre back who is any good. We should be looking to buy 2 players who can build a central defensive partnership that will become a solid unit for years to come. We should also be looking to buy a striker who can partner Lambert and form a striking partnership. I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond. Dear Hissing Sid ......We are currently in Div 1, with what still is, a very "weak" Squad To date, Pardew has (IMHO) recruited well .... Remember, like it or not, the -10 points DOES put some players off ....... Ironically enough, once we have cleared those -10 points, then we will be flooded with applicants Under our current situation, the hardest part for Pardew is to assmble a Team that can at least COMPETE in our League ....... that will, as can be seen, be a "mix" of actual signings, and Loan deals Pardew's "choices" have so far been OK .... so I think that soon, hopefully Saturday, we will turn that elusive corner...... ..... and who's to say that come January, those "loanies" we have may WANT to make it permanent As most on here know, I am a critic of a lot of things, but even I realise that until Pardew COMPLETES his Team Building .....WE, as Supporters have to keep faith in him........ Always Remember the LEGACT he inherited ,,, he's doing OK in my book ..... (apart from tactics v Swindon, which could have been a bluff) Edited 20 August, 2009 by SaintRichmond
S-Clarke Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond. Key issue here - we haven't had any for years. The scouting is utterly awful, as stated by Pards Going back to the first point on the first page....have you thought about these loan signings in this way? Pard's has found it very hard to attract who he really wants - so we're bringing in these good quality loans to tide us over untill we're in a better position. - i.e january. It's good that he's not just going out and paying for ''average'' players - but he's biding his time untill we are able to get in the best. That may be next summer, or january.
SaintRichmond Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Its strange that the Echo hasnt caught this yet : ) That means it's true then ..........:cool:
VectisSaint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I wonder if many of You actually watch football. All This negativity about loans. Birmingham have twice been promoted off the back of loans. Agreed, Leicester did quite well last season as well. I've read nothing official, but I would suspect it is a loan with a view to a permanent deal. If the guy has been injured, then this is a low risk option, if his injury problems return then he will be let go, between now and January we will have a scouting network put in place again (we don't have one at present according to AP) and we can look out for another CB which we might or might not bring in based on the success of the loan. People knocking the loan system are just blinkered and don't really understand how modern football in the lower divisions work. Welcome Mr Trotman, looking forward to seeing an improvement in the back line.
boxosponge Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Its strange that the Echo hasnt caught this yet : ) nor the OS
saint_stevo Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 at least we are signing experienced players tho...
Minsk Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Err, no they are not. If they are no good then why sign them in the first place? Nobody seems to know anything about this lad. My guess would be that he has a similar level of experience as Lancashire . All that happens is you end up with someone for 6 months that adds nothing to the squad. If he goes back in Jan then we are left with a problem, and have to go through the whole process again, looking for another defender on a 6 month loan. The problem is that we don't have a single centre back who is any good. We should be looking to buy 2 players who can build a central defensive partnership that will become a solid unit for years to come. We should also be looking to buy a striker who can partner Lambert and form a striking partnership. I can't believe that our scouts have been unable to identify players who can do a job for us and bring some much needed quality to the team. There are players out there who can do a job for us - We've proved this by signing the likes of Lambert and Hammond. You might not know anything about this lad but I suspect that Pardew and Wilkins do! How many clubs outside of the prem can you name who do not have at least a couple of loan signings? Come to that, a number of prem clubs also have loan signings! It's the way of the football world nowadays. And what's to say that AP doesn't have another CB in his sights? Maybe that player is not available right now (current club looking to bring someone in until they will release him, for examle - or the player is currently injured, ala Whitbread at Millwall as another example). Another thought is that this player is in keeping with our other recent additions: LAMBert HAMmond TROT(TERS)man
ottery st mary Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 You might not know anything about this lad but I suspect that Pardew and Wilkins do! How many clubs outside of the prem can you name who do not have at least a couple of loan signings? Come to that, a number of prem clubs also have loan signings! It's the way of the football world nowadays. And what's to say that AP doesn't have another CB in his sights? Maybe that player is not available right now (current club looking to bring someone in until they will release him, for examle - or the player is currently injured, ala Whitbread at Millwall as another example). Another thought is that this player is in keeping with our other recent additions: LAMBert HAMmond TROT(TERS)man Minsk..As ever you are a solid old Pro.
Minsk Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Where did I have a pop about not being able to find decent players? I clearly state that we've found the likes of Lambert and Hammond, so why can't we find defenders who can add some qulaity to the squad instead of taking people on loan. People who are not even proven at CCC level! Birmingham may have been promoted twice with loads of loan players. On the other side, we've been relegated twice with too many loan players! Can you please remind me of all the loan players we had when we were relegated from the prem? I can only recall two, Davenport - who was crud; and Camara - who was awesome.
Roger Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 After all this other than sky sports which can be wrong, can anyone say whether this is likely that we are signing him? Its not anywhere else on the news. Anyone know if its true?
Block 5 Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Would have been impressed with this if we'd signed him permanently. But a loan player.... at CB? Has anything changed?
krissyboy31 Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Would have been impressed with this if we'd signed him permanently. But a loan player.... at CB? Has anything changed? The thing is if there is no quality available or willing to drop down to League 1, then loans are the way to go. I for one, do not want us to sign players that are no better than we've got. We have a history of doing that over the last 6 years, which has got us in the sh!t position we now find ourselves. The Exodus Geohaghon thread says it all. Sign this guy up even though the only people who have ever seen him play thinks he is garbage!
Armitage Shanks Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 After all this other than sky sports which can be wrong, can anyone say whether this is likely that we are signing him? Its not anywhere else on the news. Anyone know if its true? It's on here http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A55998508 PNE fans obviously rate him
.comsaint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I think SKY have jumped the gun a bit on this one. On saturday - regular Preston CB Youl Mawene did his hamstring in and certainly faces a few weeks on the sidelines. There are calls (from the fans) to give Trotman his place (" Super Sub 'Trots' to the bench!!" - "Give Trotman a go. He's ready!" - "trotman is ready chillie still finding his feet lets get 3 points and lets play trotman..." etc). Perhaps it was on the cards (a move to SMS) - but I feel that may now all change.
ottery st mary Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 I think SKY have jumped the gun a bit on this one. On saturday - regular Preston CB Youl Mawene did his hamstring in and certainly faces a few weeks on the sidelines. There are calls (from the fans) to give Trotman his place (" Super Sub 'Trots' to the bench!!" - "Give Trotman a go. He's ready!" - "trotman is ready chillie still finding his feet lets get 3 points and lets play trotman..." etc). Perhaps it was on the cards (a move to SMS) - but I feel that may now all change. Damn and blast...Vidic and Ferdinand signings for us would just not be the same....Just our luck.
dubai_phil Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Oh, the final nail in the moaning loaning coffin about work ethic and commitment on the pitch and being demeaning for clubs to loan players..... Carlos Tevez was on loan at Man U. Was that beneath them? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_T%C3%A9vez
Redondo Saint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Another loanee !! Sorry, I just don't see why we aren't backing our convictions. maybe some of the decent CB's dont want to drop to our league and be minus 9 points?
S-Clarke Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 maybe some of the decent CB's dont want to drop to our league and be minus 9 points? exactly....!!! why can't people see this? When we're in a better position to attract players - we'll buy them. At the moment it's tough, and i don't think our start has made us an even more attractive proposition! If we can get to Jan/summer, out of hte bottom 3 and towards mid-table then it's been a success - we can then go and get the players we really wanted (or better players, who have since become avaliable)
Block 5 Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 The thing is if there is no quality available or willing to drop down to League 1, then loans are the way to go. I for one, do not want us to sign players that are no better than we've got. We have a history of doing that over the last 6 years, which has got us in the sh!t position we now find ourselves. The Exodus Geohaghon thread says it all. Sign this guy up even though the only people who have ever seen him play thinks he is garbage! 6 billion people on the planet....... And none of them can play CB. Doh!
saint_stevo Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 If it means Lancashire won't be our back-up CB for a while, thank god
VectisSaint Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Can't we hijack Sol Campbell's move to Notts County?
Scudamore Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 He's big and black. It'll do. So's the Batmobile...doesn't mean i want it playing centre back for Saints...
krissyboy31 Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 6 billion people on the planet....... And none of them can play CB. Doh! Well we've signed about 25 of them over the last few years and none of those (since Killer) have been able to!!
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