Professor Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Only heard the commentary on Saints iPlayer but long before half time, Dave Merrington was making some very astute criticisms of the way they were playing. That might not be all down to Pardew, but the failure to make any changes at half time, or until the 80the minute definitely was. AP is bringing in a few players but whether it will be enough, we have to wait and see, by which time this could be another relegation fight. Watch out Alan, the honeymoon won't go on for ever.
SaintRobbie Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 You obviously have little idea of what you are talking about as long as you can blame Lowe everything is rosy Pardew was sacked from Charlton after failing to stop their decline and losing loads of games so far he has continued that trend with us Charlton now top of the League Rubbish John. Pardew is a class manager, and we're lucky to have him. I am sorry but until the players that Lowe built are removed we're going no where.
corky morris Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 We have seen more managers come & go in the last 12 years than I care to remember. Without doubt Pardew has his faults, they all do (Strachan & Telfer), but IMHO its far to early to pass judgement. I wasnt there last night so cant judge that, but its fair to say that the vast majority of fans who were there & have posted on here have said both he & the team were poor so I will believe them. However I have been to the home games & I saw some positives. I dont understand why Holmes & Gillet are not playing, but I think Harding, Murty & Lambert are decent signings. I will not pass judgement until after Christmas & even then its probably to early. What he inherited was so bad even the best motivator in the world would struggle. Lowe legacy will haunt us for a while yet I am sorry to say. Lets hope we put in a cracking performance on Saturday.
saint_stevo Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Posted 19 August, 2009 what does any of this have to do with Lowe exactly?
Katalinic Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 what does any of this have to do with Lowe exactly? Pretty much everything.
saint_stevo Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Posted 19 August, 2009 Pretty much everything. Did he embody AP and refuse to change it/play 4-5-1?
Armitage Shanks Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Pardew f**k off. Clueless. Can't motivate. Doesn't have a f**king clue. This isn't a wind-up, I genuinely believe he is f**king clueless. Based purely on last night's performance you're absolutely right. This was my first game of the season tonight and I have to say that I was horrified. Man for man we were ten times better than Swindon on paper. For them to play like that the manager has to take some blame. I'm not advocating sacking him or anything like that but if they carry on like this for more than another 3 games there will be fans calling for his head and quite rightly so. Last night was nothing to do with fitness or lack of pre-season prep. It was the wrong side, the wrong formation, the wrong tactics and wrong timing on substitutions. Kelvin and Dan Harding were the only two to come out with any credit.
gjphilsaint Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 My concerns about Pardew when he signed are documented in his appointment post and I do not intend to go on anymore about that... but AP was quite clear at the start of the season that: 1 He inherited a carp team (sounded quite like Redkrapp in his assessment) 2 The players needed jusr are not available /will not come 3 AP is right there is an awful habit of losing and doom about the place Other threads and posters also debate what level Saints would be successful at... and many on here agree that we still have not found that yet.. there may be worse to come , in the sense of games , like Swindon that we STILL expect a win/good win/tonking etc.. It appears that once again we all need to reassess our expectations and then take a good look at ourselves and decide if we can wait/stomach it. Plenty of other managers would have resigned themselves to this dross, other more inspiration ones may have attracted players quicker... (no names to mention) or motivated players quicker (Sven/Torn?) I think AP is probably a middling manager, he wont give up I dont think but he cannot attract the players we now need or so it seems to me. The decline continues and no sign of improvement on the horizon.
Katalinic Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Did he embody AP and refuse to change it/play 4-5-1? No, but things are not as simple as you are making out. There are more fundamental issues as to why we have started the season poorly than AP playing 4-5-1. It will take time and patience to sort this mess out - a mess that is largely (but not exclusively) down to the decisions taken by Lowe during his tenures.
corky morris Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 what does any of this have to do with Lowe exactly? The squad of dross AP inherited & the morale he created by his ineptitude.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Rubbish John. Pardew is a class manager, and we're lucky to have him. I am sorry but until the players that Lowe built are removed we're going no where. Robbie I agree with you on Pardew as for your last reactionary rubbish shall we sell the following players who were all with us last season and poisoned by Lowe? Davis Perry Thomas Holmes James Gillett Schnederlin Lallana Paterson I'll give you Wotton but what about Pericard as a bad signing? Also, Saganowski and Rasiak are overpaid prima donnas and their attitude not worthy of the shirt IMO. Lets not forget we still have McLaggon to look forward to returning and the brief moments I saw him play he should have a field day in this league. Anti-Lowe rhetoric is somewhat less relevant than those legends and uber fans behind the Pinnacle bid. That bid more than anything else has affected our start of the season and clear out those poisoned by Lowe really is childish nonsense and in any event will take about 18 months to achieve.
Glasgow_Saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Half of our team would not get in an average Conference team. 1-0 against one of the weak teams in this division and could have been 6!
John B Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Rubbish John. Pardew is a class manager, and we're lucky to have him. Lets wait and see by the way I thought Burley was a class manager
Armitage Shanks Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 This is when the forum shows its bad side. When the idiots come out, spouting crap. Pardew needs time. There are so many issues, some obvious and some we dont even know about. These will take time to sort out. Of course we are all disapointed, no one wanted one point from 9. We do at last, i believe have a sound owner and i can see a lot of reasons why long term we will get better. I do wonder sometime though when i read some of the drivel on this forum if we deserve success. So come on everyone, try not to react badly to these results. Have faith and just support............ Can I ask you if you were there last night ? Nothing written by the people who were there last night is drivel. It's the worse I have ever seen Saints play. It was that bad. The fans do support - they turned up there in their thousands last night. I'm afraid that the faith has been badly dented over the last five years. It was obvious to all the fans there last night that Lancashire and Wotton in particular should not have been on the bench let alone the pitch when he had Perry and Gillett on the bench. Why he played Paterson as a right winger and Lambert as a lone striker were bizarre. Why he left it until the past ten minutes to make the substitutions needs an explanation. I don't over react to things but I have to say that I'm concerned this morning that Pardew last night seemed totally clueless. I had a flashback last night seeing him stand there arms folded of a certain Ian Branfoot.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 The squad of dross AP inherited & the morale he created by his ineptitude. 2 degrees and that's the amount of your analysis. I thought the morale was lifted 100 fold when he left and Mr Liebherr took over whilst in between Pinnacle did their best to take us over the edge. How has a player's morale in the squad today been affected by Lowe - if anything it will be impacted by the fans with the same idotic views as your own or the nervousness and lack of preparation the lasting legacy of Pinnacle. Lowe really is history and once again when challenged you are reaching for straws.
Ash Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 No, but things are not as simple as you are making out. There are more fundamental issues as to why we have started the season poorly than AP playing 4-5-1. It will take time and patience to sort this mess out - a mess that is largely (but not exclusively) down to the decisions taken by Lowe during his tenures. What absolute ********. It is as simple as eleven blokes against eleven blokes on the night, and the point Stevo was making (if I may) is that Pardew's reluctance to change anything despite trailing the game for well over an hour and creating bugger all chances was, to say the least, very strange. Stop trying to make every last bloody thing about Rupert sodding Lowe, he has been gone for months. His aura may still be giving you bad vibes but quite how that translates into the current managers handling of the tactics is beyond me (and I am a clever bastard).
londonsaint1604 Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Half of our team would not get in an average Conference team. 1-0 against one of the weak teams in this division and could have been 6! Yeah but what are you gonna do?
OttawaSaint Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Selective memory. Have you forgotten how low we had sunk after Burley went and Dodd & Gormley took over. Pearson managed to obtain visible improvements in a fairly short time. The defence that had leaked like a sieve became hard to beat, the levels of fitness seemed to improve and the team spirit also improved. Just to prove that it wasn't a fluke, Pearson then went on to Leicester, a team just relegated like us who had a management merry-go-round the season before. I suspect that there was a lot of dross amongst the players there too and poor team spirit. He managed to turn that around quite quickly too. Holy ****! I had forgotten that. I guess when I have tried to block out of my memory all the horrible performances of the last 20 years, that got blocked out too...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 What absolute ********. It is as simple as eleven blokes against eleven blokes on the night, and the point Stevo was making (if I may) is that Pardew's reluctance to change anything despite trailing the game for well over an hour and creating bugger all chances was, to say the least, very strange. Stop trying to make every last bloody thing about Rupert sodding Lowe, he has been gone for months. His aura may still be giving you bad vibes but quite how that translates into the current managers handling of the tactics is beyond me (and I am a clever bastard). Maybe he is trying to prove a point to the owners that the present squad is not good enough? He gives them a few games to show what they're worth and then replaces them wholesale. Or am I clutching at straw thingies?
shurlock Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Can I ask you if you were there last night ? Nothing written by the people who were there last night is drivel. It's the worse I have ever seen Saints play. It was that bad. The fans do support - they turned up there in their thousands last night. I'm afraid that the faith has been badly dented over the last five years. It was obvious to all the fans there last night that Lancashire and Wotton in particular should not have been on the bench let alone the pitch when he had Perry and Gillett on the bench. Why he played Paterson as a right winger and Lambert as a lone striker were bizarre. Why he left it until the past ten minutes to make the substitutions needs an explanation. I don't over react to things but I have to say that I'm concerned this morning that Pardew last night seemed totally clueless. I had a flashback last night seeing him stand there arms folded of a certain Ian Branfoot. Mate i was there last night like Huddersfield on saturday and haven't missed a home or away game for ages. All I know is that the rot runs deep and many of the players -mostly inherited- are doing exactly the same things they were last season. The idea that pards can change things around, both on and off the pitch, in less than a month is risible. Should he have brought a sub on yesterday? Yes Would it have made a difference? Probably not. IF Saga or Rasiak had come on, we would have gone even more direct and lost even more shape. We might have got a point out of the game but things need to change in midfield and we have fewer options there (yes I am a fan of Gillett). At the same time Pards possibly wanted to give his side the vote of confidence, get them used to playing together, especially since the Poles want out. Was that more important than bringing subs on? For me, no. But can I understand why he did it? Emphatically, yes. And currently that's good enough for me.
surrey1saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Mate i was there last night like Huddersfield on saturday and haven't missed a home or away game for ages. All I know is that the rot runs deep and many of the players -mostly inherited- are doing exactly the same things they were last season. The idea that pards can change things around, both on and off the pitch, in less than a month is risible. Should he have brought a sub on yesterday? Yes Would it have made a difference? Probably not. IF Saga or Rasiak had come on, we would have gone even more direct and lost even more shape. We might have got a point out of the game but things need to change in midfield and we have fewer options there (yes I am a fan of Gillett). At the same time Pards possibly wanted to give his side the vote of confidence, get them used to playing together, especially since the Poles want out. Was that more important than bringing subs on? For me, no. But can I understand why he did it? Emphatically, yes. And currently that's good enough for me. Good post. IMO.
The Kraken Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 I'm just astounded that so many people think we're going to turn the corner so quickly, just because we've signed three new players. The gap between the Championship and League 1 is nowhere near the gulf between The Premier League and Championship, so we're not instantly going to be better than the others around us, just because we used to be in the league above. And especially so since we've lost a spine of the old team through players like Surman, JPS, McGoldrick (and to a lesser extent BWP and Euell) and with Rasiak and Saga knocking on the door for a move away. We're still only really replacing some of these players, and our team was pretty shocking last year with them in the side, so we've got a fair way to go until we start becoming cometitive again. I think Pardew has made a good start with the new players in. Effectively, aside from Kelvin, I'm sure he would bring in a new player in every position if he could, but finances just won't allow that. So he's filling the team with good, solid, experienced players who'll start to build the spine back up. Add with Hammond now in to bolster the centre midfield, I think (hope) we may see more of Gillett as then there's still an older head in the centre to help out the youngsters. And we know he also wants to sign a good, experienced, no-nonsense centre-half, so we're getting there. I'd already put the first half of this season down to a period of transition, with hopefully the team performing much better by November time for a safe mid-table finish this year, a summer of more good signings and then a proper assault on promotion with a much more confident team, losing the dead wood along the way. It always pains to see poor performances and results, but Pardew is just a good manager, not a miracle worker. Admittedly if things don't improve in the next 6-8 games then there's real cause for concern, but until then i think I'll give the guy a break.
Toadhall Saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Why is it the same with every manager - our expectations are higher than is acheived. Personally I think we have to give it time. Whats the alternative - get rid of every manager unless they win at least 3 on the bounce?
Bailey Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 I'm still completely behind Pardew, but some of his tactics and team selections are concerning. I appreciate that it's going to take time to turn things around, especially considering our players have been so used to losing, but to roll over and be totally outplayed by Huddersfield AND Swindon is just not good enough. Really hope we can kick-start our season with a win against Brentford on Saturday!
Dark Munster Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Selective memory. Have you forgotten how low we had sunk after Burley went and Dodd & Gormley took over. Pearson managed to obtain visible improvements in a fairly short time. The defence that had leaked like a sieve became hard to beat, the levels of fitness seemed to improve and the team spirit also improved. Just to prove that it wasn't a fluke, Pearson then went on to Leicester, a team just relegated like us who had a management merry-go-round the season before. I suspect that there was a lot of dross amongst the players there too and poor team spirit. He managed to turn that around quite quickly too. But don't forget that any fool with a bit of money can walk League 1. Well, that's what the Lowe luvvies were telling us when NP's team walked the league last year.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 But don't forget that any fool with a bit of money can walk League 1. Well, that's what the Lowe luvvies were telling us when NP's team walked the league last year. Shall we compare the relegation of the two sides and the issues they had to deal with during their respective close seasons. No lets not as it won't support your argument.
captainchris Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 i think pardew needs to release another statement after that bull**** of a post match interview and tell us why he didnt make subs earlier why gillet isnt playing and where holmes is. Spot on call. This guy is dangerous.....
Wes Tender Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 But don't forget that any fool with a bit of money can walk League 1. Well, that's what the Lowe luvvies were telling us when NP's team walked the league last year. Good point, they were, weren't they? Now here we are with an owner far wealthier than Mandaric. Let's see how Pardew shapes up against Pearson attempting the same feat of getting promotion.
Saint_lambden Posted 19 August, 2009 Posted 19 August, 2009 Yes he was clueless tonight and should of brought the subs on about 30 mins before he did but how on earth can you be calling for his head after 4 competitive games!. We need stability, not having another 3 managers this season. Give him time FFS.
sadoldgit Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 Aren't some of our fans wonderful. Wanting the manager out after a couple of games when he hs the millstone of -9 round his neck and a crap squad. The same people no doubt who wrote Kelvin Davis off. Thank God they don't have a say in the running of the club. Who said the fans know best? As for clueless, he has forgotten more about football than everyone on here thinks they know. Give the bloke a chance, he is sussing out what he has. Takes time.
sadoldgit Posted 20 August, 2009 Posted 20 August, 2009 But don't forget that any fool with a bit of money can walk League 1. Well, that's what the Lowe luvvies were telling us when NP's team walked the league last year. Oh dear......
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