Time to tell the real story of the mess

[miserableoldgit]

You say hindsight MoG but I actually had "words" with MLT re Pinnacle's authenticity before (before I repeat) the announcement came they were pulling out and at the time posted stuff on here to back up my doubts. That got me into a lot of trouble and I was threatened with the police. Don't think I am one of your Johnny come lately blame Pinnacle brigade.

 

I smelt a rat as soon as Tony Lynam began posting inconsistencies on here and Matt and Leon were photographed with KK. (What was that all about?)

I accept that FF, and as I said my post wasn`t aimed particularly at you, but mainly at the people that suddenly announce that they "knew" from the start that the Pinnacle bid would fail. Even you said that you supported it at the beginning. I think that we all had doubts as time went on.

[dubai_phil]

Do you think this will ever come out Phil? I just see the new owner concentrating on teh future unfortunately!! Think we just need to survive this year and hit next season running!

 

 

We need to survive this year and hit next season running - my sentiments exactly.

 

But I think the truth needs to come out so we fans understand better the problems and why it appears as if the players are terrified of making mistakes and seem to freeze.

 

The only places it can come from are the club who will have about half the facts.... unless the shredders worked overtime but someone needs to make the start

[Nineteen Canteen]

Isn't this now the time for all true supporters to get behind the club??

 

To start now to make snide references to another one of your hate figures, Mary Corbett, is just pathetic. You are a sad individual who should just grow up.

 

Maybe but judging by some of the hysterics being posted by others today after our 'catastrophic' failure last night I suddenly find myself in the bracket of reasonable posters and presumably sad individuals.

[OldNick]

Again FC my point assumed knowledge vs The Real Story - DID Crouch actually front up the cash?

 

The battle scars are still very new, the lack of trust by the fans in the club is still very real, and the pain of continual glossing over another worst ever performance is still there.

 

So, rather than more ITK leaks, what REALLY happened?

Phil you are party to more info than most on here due to your advice given.There are some inteesting points you are alluding to.

I still believe that Trousers post re Fry (barclays) who put us into administration then is part of begbies is something fans should not overlook. It was at best odd and to some would look like self interest being served rather than the business.

[70's Mike]

Another critical question to ask is WTF does the Academy TEACH these players?

We were told they play a fluid system 4-2-3-1 or something (you cannot pigeonhole young kids etc)

And yet 75% of all football is still played 4-4-2

 

It is clear we lack any width in the team, yet the kids have had 6+ years of intensive coaching in a style that doesn't use wide players?

 

The Academy should be a production line for the players the TEAM needs trained in the formation the TEAM needs. Not used as it has been as a profit earning share dividend creating "incremental revenue stream"

 

totally agree Phil

 

I have been asking this question for nearly 2 years, we have Lallana who appears to only be able to play in one position in one system.

We appear to have produced robots who can do a Mr Xu but not actually play in games or think for themselves, well the ones that are left anyway.

[OldNick]

Maybe but judging by some of the hysterics being posted by others today after our 'catastrophic' failure last night I suddenly find myself in the bracket of reasonable posters and presumably sad individuals.

I never thought you'd be in that bracket.lol

[Nineteen Canteen]

Granted he has and will not just throw money at the problem, but if we are in the proverbial at xmas, he won't stand idly by. Relegation will be seen as a failure and people like ML don't do failure.

 

 

 

I agree to an extent whereby he isn't going to throw sack loads of cash at the club, but at the end of the day, you don't buy a club like Saints in the state that it was without expecting to spend something. It is akin to buying an old derelict house, whereby due diligence was like a full structural survey. To restore it to its former glory you have to invest something as you can't live in it if the roof is leaking.

 

 

 

We have got a big name manager (proven in this league) and have made some good signings - Lambert could be the signing of the season in this league and that is before considering that hanging on to KD looks like the second best. On top of that, we have got a few more to come and it is quite refreshing to look at who we will be signing rather than who we will be selling. Why would the fans walk away at this stage?

 

I hope they don't tbh but judging by the wave of 'woe is us' since our heavy defeat last night you have to question their commitment.

[dubai_phil]

Phil you are party to more info than most on here due to your advice given.There are some inteesting points you are alluding to.

I still believe that Trousers post re Fry (barclays) who put us into administration then is part of begbies is something fans should not overlook. It was at best odd and to some would look like self interest being served rather than the business.

 

It was interesting, the way the information was discovered and strangely "hidden" was interesting, but you cannot build a jigsaw from only one piece.

 

It may be crucial to building the picture, but it may be a piece of a background

[Nineteen Canteen]

Do we know if Crouch helped Pinnacle with the deposit as a loan or gift or at all? I dont doubt Crouch had the best interests of the club at heart, but would he not have recognised that the Swiss bid was far more likely to succeed? Why give Pinnacle the chance by fronting the cash? Why not recognise the Swiss bid as the only realistic option and allow it to go ahead?

 

I just dont see how someone would front 500k without seeing the deal in writing. If It was the only way to save the club but was independent of any bid, I could see how that would be a generous proposition, but given we have been told the Swiss literally missed out by minutes surely Fry would have let Crouch know this was in the offing and given the wealth and seriousness of their bid , was Crouch bailing out pinnacle with the deposit necessary? I know this is going to be controvercial, but it does lead to speculation that maybe Crouch backed that particular horse because it may have meant he stayed involved in some way - which was as we have seen not going to be the case when the Swiss broom came in?

 

Frank you ask some very good questions but regrettably I don't know how any of the answers could be ratified and made public and IMO MLT's reputation and status does not exclude him from the same line of questioning. As for Lynam.....

 

One thing is for sure IMO the best intentions of a few individuals has seriously dented the hopes of many.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I never thought you'd be in that bracket.lol

 

Hopefully it's only temporary

[Greenridge]

Frank you ask some very good questions but regrettably I don't know how any of the answers could be ratified and made public and IMO MLT's reputation and status does not exclude him from the same line of questioning. As for Lynam.....

 

One thing is for sure IMO the best intentions of a few individuals has seriously dented the hopes of many.

 

What is your obsession with MLT, Crouch, McMenemy et al? We know they were in the other camp to your idol but just like him they are gone, they are history. Each and everyone will feel they tried to do the best for SFC in their own unique way. It is nauseating to see you repeat the same guff on each and every thread on the board. You are singularly making this board bored. Move on like most others have and be grateful we still have a club to support.

[Daren W]

Frank you ask some very good questions but regrettably I don't know how any of the answers could be ratified and made public and IMO MLT's reputation and status does not exclude him from the same line of questioning. As for Lynam.....

 

One thing is for sure IMO the best intentions of a few individuals has seriously dented the hopes of many.

 

Tell you what, rather than droning on and on and on and on about it, go to one of his book signings and ask him face to face...

 

But you won't will you as it requires having to balls to say something to someone's face doesn't it? And we all know you won't do that, safer to snipe from behind the safety of your pc eh?

[dubai_phil]

Tell you what, rather than droning on and on and on and on about it, go to one of his book signings and ask him face to face...

 

But you won't will you as it requires having to balls to sy something to someone's face doesn't it?

 

Thanks Darren for a useful contribution to the debate.

 

Kindly keep your (apparently valid) vendetta to other threads if you would be so kind

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Do we know if Crouch helped Pinnacle with the deposit as a loan or gift or at all? I dont doubt Crouch had the best interests of the club at heart, but would he not have recognised that the Swiss bid was far more likely to succeed? Why give Pinnacle the chance by fronting the cash? Why not recognise the Swiss bid as the only realistic option and allow it to go ahead?

 

I just dont see how someone would front 500k without seeing the deal in writing. If It was the only way to save the club but was independent of any bid, I could see how that would be a generous proposition, but given we have been told the Swiss literally missed out by minutes surely Fry would have let Crouch know this was in the offing and given the wealth and seriousness of their bid , was Crouch bailing out pinnacle with the deposit necessary? I know this is going to be controvercial, but it does lead to speculation that maybe Crouch backed that particular horse because it may have meant he stayed involved in some way - which was as we have seen not going to be the case when the Swiss broom came in?

 

 

Frank - I can say with 100% certainity that your assumption made in your last sentence is correct.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Frank you ask some very good questions.

 

Agree but would Fry have been at liberty to dicuss the Swiss bid with Crouch or any other individual associated to a rival bid ? Surely even the most vocal of Crouch supporters would have to admit IF he paid over that amount of money it would have came with conditions, one of which being a place on the board, what could have been the ultimate aim or purpose for those associated to 'bids' ? surely it is to run the club.

 

I posted on another thread that everyone associated to events had largely been let off because of the new regime and the expectation it brought, last nights result has not changed that opinion but agree with the OP questions should have been answered by now.

 

BT will have made a substantial amount of money from the process and hold ALL the information and could have prevented the fiasco had they had PROOF Pinnacle were chancers, equally they would have PROOF that they were not and believed them able when entering into exclusivity, so if the latter is true(which it must be, right ?) blame can not be levelled at laymen who had the best of intentions.

 

Would a final report to creditors cover those events(in detail) ?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I accept that FF, and as I said my post wasn`t aimed particularly at you, but mainly at the people that suddenly announce that they "knew" from the start that the Pinnacle bid would fail. Even you said that you supported it at the beginning. I think that we all had doubts as time went on.

 

Fair does mog

 

Pinnacle at first seemed to be manna from heaven (certainly when news came through that Jackson was sniffing around) but again hopes were unfairly raised and then cruelly dashed. I remember that Tuesday night feeling that was the end for my club.

 

I just wish MLT had done a little more explaining at the end. He owes the fans that I think. As far as I know "Pinnacle" are still hiding behind the Football League ruling and no one has had the decency to tell us exactly why the deal which was definately going to happen never did. (After all when given the chance, ML did the whole deal in 12 days).

 

Maybe Crouch will spill the beans - last time I spoke to him he was none too happy with what happened.

[sotonist]

We appear to have produced robots who can do a Mr Xu but not actually play in games or think for themselves' date=' well the ones that are left anyway.[/quote']

 

Wasn't it Mr. Woo? Maybe we could call them Woobots.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

I hope they don't tbh but judging by the wave of 'woe is us' since our heavy defeat last night you have to question their commitment.

 

How dare you question the commitment of people who have stuck with this club through thick and thin, who have travelled thousands of miles to follow the team and yet have had nothing but disappointment for year upon year.

 

The commitment of these supporters is second to none as the turn-out last night of 3,000 shows. They have every right to show their displeasure at the performance and to criticise the apparent naïveté of the manager and coaching staff.

 

What is not acceptable however, is your arrogance.

[VectisSaint]

From what I HEAR, the players are scared to death, the 1st half today was sideways football which ahsn't worked for the past 5 years.

You didn't watch the same game as me then. The 1st half was backwards football, sideways would have been a positive improvement. I have concluded that some of our players are not too bright and did not realise that we changed ends before kick-off

[miserableoldgit]

Fair does mog

 

Pinnacle at first seemed to be manna from heaven (certainly when news came through that Jackson was sniffing around) but again hopes were unfairly raised and then cruelly dashed. I remember that Tuesday night feeling that was the end for my club.

 

I just wish MLT had done a little more explaining at the end. He owes the fans that I think. As far as I know "Pinnacle" are still hiding behind the Football League ruling and no one has had the decency to tell us exactly why the deal which was definately going to happen never did. (After all when given the chance, ML did the whole deal in 12 days).

 

Maybe Crouch will spill the beans - last time I spoke to him he was none too happy with what happened.

It would be nice to know!

[VectisSaint]

Christ doesn't AP have any contacts?

He only had to ask and I could have popped along on Saturday to see them against MK Dons.

 

Scouting may be a problem, but this did not cause the abject performance last night. This is an excuse, but clearly something that does need sorting. I hope AP has not recently graduated from the "Burley School of Excuses".

[dubai_phil]

You didn't watch the same game as me then. The 1st half was backwards football, sideways would have been a positive improvement. I have concluded that some of our players are not too bright and did not realise that we changed ends before kick-off

 

 

I did put the word HEAR in rather large letters (risking incurring the wrath of MM again)

 

I would have watched but that bloke who offered the lift never arrived to collect me, damn shame I had bought some lovely Dates stuffed with almonds for the road trip and some nicotine patches. Weather was lovely in Saudi for the ride apparently!

 

 

But it helps to emphasise my general concerns about a fear factor or a weught on inexperienced shoulders and general occassional adverse reactions to the medication needed to cure the patient...

[Whitey Grandad]

You didn't watch the same game as me then. The 1st half was backwards football, sideways would have been a positive improvement. I have concluded that some of our players are not too bright and did not realise that we changed ends before kick-off

In which case things should have improved after half-time

[Toadhall Saint]

We're a mess.

 

The squad is a mess.

 

There are many "motivational management" reasons to keep quiet, especially in sport.

 

However I think it is time that the new owners should start to let the fans know some of the reality of the mess that they inherited.

 

Tell us about the never published accounts before Admin. Let us know WHY the players we have left seem to be terrified

 

The healing process is always said to begin when you start accepting the truth and talking about things

 

We're Saints fans, we know much of it. trust us and tell us the truth. Just how bad WAS it on the day you walked in and what the plans really are.

 

The ST sales are in the bank, just for once, we might just understand and may just stop whingeing and start coming in more numbers.

 

Are the kids REALLY that bad?

Are they REALLY that naive?

How many players do you think we REALLY need?

 

Where are we REALLY hoping to end up this season?

 

The truth is in there. Time to do an X files and get the truth OUT HERE so we AND the players can move on.

 

Thats the bit that I find most amazing TBH. I see no desire or determination and lets not even start on about being brave.

 

Cometh the hour cometh the man only prob is that there isn't a man amongst 'em. So they hide.

[JoeShmoe]

I know its sensationalist but we are odds-on to go down this season unless something drastic gets done and quickly

 

Players like Lancashire, Wotton, Thomas etc should be nowhere near our first team and kids like Paterson, Lallana etc should be seeing limited time as subs

 

We are a VERY poor team and time people woke up to the fact. We have a club still and amen to that but lets be realistic that football wise we are in the bin

[OldNick]

I know its sensationalist but we are odds-on to go down this season unless something drastic gets done and quickly

 

Players like Lancashire, Wotton, Thomas etc should be nowhere near our first team and kids like Paterson, Lallana etc should be seeing limited time as subs

 

We are a VERY poor team and time people woke up to the fact. We have a club still and amen to that but lets be realistic that football wise we are in the bin

we are still living with the 'We are Southampton' and expect little clubs like Huddersfield and Swindon to roll over. It is abundantly clear that the players representing our fine club in the main are just not good enough to wear the shirt we are proud of.

I want us to survive this season and then give the club time to upgrade with winners.

[yorkiesaint]

I concur with Phil, we are owed more details.

 

perhaps we should start a list of precise questions.

[Redondo Saint]

we are still living with the 'We are Southampton' and expect little clubs like Huddersfield and Swindon to roll over. It is abundantly clear that the players representing our fine club in the main are just not good enough to wear the shirt we are proud of.

I want us to survive this season and then give the club time to upgrade with winners.

 

Well said.

 

Normally a new manager makes a huge impact to the squad for the first 2 or 3 games, but if the squad is not that good, then nothing improves.

 

Afterall, you can't polish a turd.

 

We need a decent CB and a strong midfield enforcer as captain.

[CanadaSaint]

My point is really is that it would be helpful to the fans to know what really went on. Perhaps it is the tructh, was deliberate, perhaps it was outside interference, perhaps he was waiting for Godot, perhaps his return and the Dutch was his revenge on all of us, perhaps it was an inspired choice that was unlucky. I just used it as an example of part of the WHOLE story that needs to be told

 

The people involved will know the story, time to write the book, sell it to the NotW or whatever

 

We'd love to know the truth and I think you're right - there's tons that we don't know, and some of it may be on (or over) the borders of legality.

 

However, I'm doubtful that we'll ever read that book (or even read it in the papers) because at least one of the chief protagonists uses the fear of litigation as a way of constraining the story telling. It's all very well to say that the story teller has nothing to fear if he sticks to the truth, but even the smallest slip in a highly complex matter will probably result in a lawsuit that would be expensive to defend.

 

We're just not important enough for anyone to take that risk so I very much doubt that we'll ever hear the real story.

 

There's one thing that has intrigued me because I've seen this reference before:

 

You say hindsight MoG but I actually had "words" with MLT re Pinnacle's authenticity before (before I repeat) the announcement came they were pulling out and at the time posted stuff on here to back up my doubts. That got me into a lot of trouble and I was threatened with the police. Don't think I am one of your Johnny come lately blame Pinnacle brigade.

 

I don't understand why it would be a police matter if Duncan posted a controversial e-mail on here (which, I think, was what caused that intervention). Surely it would be (or at least start as) a civil matter.

 

Duncan?

[Whitey Grandad]

Even stating the truth can get you into trouble if you present it the wrong way.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The truth I would like to know is why players like Pulis and Forecast were signed. Had Redknapp signed them questions would have ben asked. By all accountsForecast was shocking for Grimsby the other night, and I believe he's on a long term contract here.

 

If we're going to have the truth let's have the whole truth from the moment WGS left.

All of it, from why was Sturrock let go, to why did we go into admin days after the deadline.The past few years have been a complete and utter shambles and I would like to see people held to account for their part in it............

[Redondo Saint]

The truth I would like to know is why players like Pulis and Forecast were signed. Had Redknapp signed them questions would have ben asked. By all accountsForecast was shocking for Grimsby the other night, and I believe he's on a long term contract here.

 

If we're going to have the truth let's have the whole truth from the moment WGS left.

All of it, from why was Sturrock let go, to why did we go into admin days after the deadline.The past few years have been a complete and utter shambles and I would like to see people held to account for their part in it............

 

Why do you want a witch hunt?

 

In due course I am sure these stories will unfold, but let's not get a lynch mob. There are two sides to every story and who knows which one is true.

 

Personally, I don't give a stuff about the past stories and gossip. Let's move on and start to win some games.

[trousers]

Why do you want a witch hunt?

 

In due course I am sure these stories will unfold, but let's not get a lynch mob. There are two sides to every story and who knows which one is true.

 

Personally, I don't give a stuff about the past stories and gossip. Let's move on and start to win some games.

 

Why are some people concerned about going back over the past? If no one has anything to hide then nothing damaging will come of it, just clarity as phil says.

 

Humans are best at moving forward when they are knowledgable about the past. Ask an ostrich.

[dubai_phil]

Why are some people concerned about going back over the past? If no one has anything to hide then nothing damaging will come of it, just clarity as phil says.

 

Humans are best at moving forward when they are knowledgable about the past. Ask an ostrich.

 

Blimey

 

A Trousers post without a picture of an Ostrich in fact no picture at all

 

But it is right, what the hell is the point of a witch hunt? It serves nothing apart from court papers.

 

Just one person gathering all the facts and telling us how bad things REALLY were, so that we fully understand what sacrifices, pain and side effects the cure will have.

 

Invite Adam Leith or a real author/referee to write a story about it, but get everyone's inputs, not just speculation and snippets.

 

The team was awful last night. However, if the gallant 3,000 had really known what a miracle it was that they were even on the pitch, perhaps the in-fighting would take a back seat.

 

Never underestimate the intelligence of your supporters. After all, they know how to use a Sat Nav, which is more than many other people in life

[Saint Fan CaM]

Having read through the entirety of this thread (mad!) I thought I would add a few comments.

 

I would have thought it was blatantly obvious why some of the players were 'terrified' (although that's not the word I would have used) - put yourself in their shoes - they've been told that their professional training was going to prepare them for great things with the evidence displayed by Walcott et al. They then have two seasons of utilising that training under very underqualified coaches with disastrous results. They are then told to re-think that coaching and its resultant tactics by AP and hey presto it doesn't seem to work.

 

They are, as professionals, suddenly not equipped with the tools to ply their trade!

 

Imagine an apprentice chippy, trained with pro chisels in college, being given a spanner and a screwdriver on day one of his new job in industry to create a professional job of an expensive cabinet - it ain't gonna work and he/she is going to be scared ****less that his career has been built on sand.

 

That's what has happened to our youth players over the last 3 odd years IMO. It has infected the squad. The ONLY way out of this is to take them out of the picture until such time the coaching team has had a chance to sort their training out and they have regained their confidence.

[Nineteen Canteen]

How dare you question the commitment of people who have stuck with this club through thick and thin, who have travelled thousands of miles to follow the team and yet have had nothing but disappointment for year upon year.

 

The commitment of these supporters is second to none as the turn-out last night of 3,000 shows. They have every right to show their displeasure at the performance and to criticise the apparent naïveté of the manager and coaching staff.

 

What is not acceptable however, is your arrogance.

 

DSM it is not arrogance simply an observation and whilst there are many who have stuck by the club compared to our peer group we have lost a lot of support and all too readly IMO.

[dubai_phil]

Having read through the entirety of this thread (mad!) I thought I would add a few comments.

 

I would have thought it was blatantly obvious why some of the players were 'terrified' (although that's not the word I would have used) - put yourself in their shoes - they've been told that their professional training was going to prepare them for great things with the evidence displayed by Walcott et al. They then have two seasons of utilising that training under very underqualified coaches with disastrous results. They are then told to re-think that coaching and its resultant tactics by AP and hey presto it doesn't seem to work.

 

They are, as professionals, suddenly not equipped with the tools to ply their trade!

 

Imagine an apprentice chippy, trained with pro chisels in college, being given a spanner and a screwdriver on day one of his new job in industry to create a professional job of an expensive cabinet - it ain't gonna work and he/she is going to be scared ****less that his career has been built on sand.

 

That's what has happened to our youth players over the last 3 odd years IMO. It has infected the squad. The ONLY way out of this is to take them out of the picture until such time the coaching team has had a chance to sort their training out and they have regained their confidence.

 

For your comments =D>=D>=D>

 

As a part of the whole picture, another reason it's X Files time.

 

What's Scully up to these days? She go back to that Convent Hospice place?

[dubai_phil]

Whoa what happened to the Smileys???????

[Nineteen Canteen]

Agree but would Fry have been at liberty to dicuss the Swiss bid with Crouch or any other individual associated to a rival bid ? Surely even the most vocal of Crouch supporters would have to admit IF he paid over that amount of money it would have came with conditions, one of which being a place on the board, what could have been the ultimate aim or purpose for those associated to 'bids' ? surely it is to run the club.

 

I posted on another thread that everyone associated to events had largely been let off because of the new regime and the expectation it brought, last nights result has not changed that opinion but agree with the OP questions should have been answered by now.

 

BT will have made a substantial amount of money from the process and hold ALL the information and could have prevented the fiasco had they had PROOF Pinnacle were chancers, equally they would have PROOF that they were not and believed them able when entering into exclusivity, so if the latter is true(which it must be, right ?) blame can not be levelled at laymen who had the best of intentions.

 

Would a final report to creditors cover those events(in detail) ?

 

TBH Influenced I have no idea how a report will get published to the public and to what content it will be required to cover. My guess is that any report to the creditors will read like a set of year end accounts and the real story behind those numbers manipulated to put as positive light on those numbers as possible. The real story behind the shambles behind Pinnacle will probably be reduced to a footnote if that IMO.

[Verbal]

Having read through the entirety of this thread (mad!) I thought I would add a few comments.

 

I would have thought it was blatantly obvious why some of the players were 'terrified' (although that's not the word I would have used) - put yourself in their shoes - they've been told that their professional training was going to prepare them for great things with the evidence displayed by Walcott et al. They then have two seasons of utilising that training under very underqualified coaches with disastrous results. They are then told to re-think that coaching and its resultant tactics by AP and hey presto it doesn't seem to work.

 

They are, as professionals, suddenly not equipped with the tools to ply their trade!

 

Imagine an apprentice chippy, trained with pro chisels in college, being given a spanner and a screwdriver on day one of his new job in industry to create a professional job of an expensive cabinet - it ain't gonna work and he/she is going to be scared ****less that his career has been built on sand.

 

That's what has happened to our youth players over the last 3 odd years IMO. It has infected the squad. The ONLY way out of this is to take them out of the picture until such time the coaching team has had a chance to sort their training out and they have regained their confidence.

 

I'd agree with most of that. I just wonder if we're all a little too scared of proposing the logical next step. Stop spending a fortune on the academy, and build up the first team - just as Swansea did, and Hull before them.

 

The costs of doing so are about the same or less (Swansea's promotion-winning squad cost less than £1m in total to put together).

 

There was always something vaguely unseemly about chucking so many kids into the first team during the last disastrous year. It felt a little too much like exploitation.

 

I don't know whether the scouting system collapsed because of the expense of running the academy, but I can't help thinking the two are related. Certainly the absence of power and pace in the team - the qualities that virtually all our opponents in this league will have to some degree - is plain enough when you look at the four or five slight figures ambling about on the pitch.

 

It's time the academy tail stopped wagging the first-team dog.

[Verbal]

Whoa what happened to the Smileys???????

 

You're not allowed them any more, Phil. You have to be under 16 or um pahars to qualify.

[Nineteen Canteen]

You're not allowed them any more, Phil. You have to be under 16 or um pahars to qualify.

 

That's made my evening anyway, much LOLing

[Fitzhugh Fella]

We'd love to know the truth and I think you're right - there's tons that we don't know, and some of it may be on (or over) the borders of legality.

 

However, I'm doubtful that we'll ever read that book (or even read it in the papers) because at least one of the chief protagonists uses the fear of litigation as a way of constraining the story telling. It's all very well to say that the story teller has nothing to fear if he sticks to the truth, but even the smallest slip in a highly complex matter will probably result in a lawsuit that would be expensive to defend.

 

We're just not important enough for anyone to take that risk so I very much doubt that we'll ever hear the real story.

 

There's one thing that has intrigued me because I've seen this reference before:

 

 

 

I don't understand why it would be a police matter if Duncan posted a controversial e-mail on here (which, I think, was what caused that intervention). Surely it would be (or at least start as) a civil matter.

 

Duncan?

 

They (Tony Lynam and MLT) accused me of stealing a private e mail, which wasn't true.

Even Leon Crouch rang me to warn me I was in trouble.

Tbh I wasn't that worried in fact I was quite angry that I had been threatened that way and it was more proof that they were a bunch of utter cowboys.

[dubai_phil]

They (Tony Lynam and MLT) accused me of stealing a private e mail, which wasn't true.

Even Leon Crouch rang me to warn me I was in trouble.

Tbh I wasn't that worried in fact I was quite angry that I had been threatened that way and it was more proof that they were a bunch of utter cowboys.

 

 

FF, by the time you had your adventure, there had been more than enough other leaks for it to have been shown that any "concerns" you were attempting to vindicate were in the public domain.

 

I posted about "sources in the City" expressing concern and I got villified for it, however I had previously posted who those sources were and decided to withdraw gracefully under fire with everyone believing it was an MJ conspiracy.

 

They were real, then they were not, the ONLY reason that they came back to the table on that Friday was due to a legal issue that arose in a conference call between the financial, legal and consulting team that were using MJ as the fall guy. Again, nobody on here is interested as it is all pantomine villain stuff, and the net result was a WIN for us and we have Markus

 

All of this is simply ONE chapter in the tale.

 

As far as I can make out, the first page of the story all starts with a comment made by WGS after an inept performance at Newcastle about "Dark Forces being at work within the football club".

 

Use that as the base-line of your research and everything else in the whole sorry tale will fall into place, and allow us to start to heal. Pinnacle & your part in their downfall will provide an entertaining chapter towards the end of the story

[CanadaSaint]

Thanks, Duncan and DP.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say I don't think the full story will ever be told. That kind of threat and intimidation takes a toll but it's really, really saddening if MLT was sucked into it.

 

On the one hand there's the argument that there's nothing to gain by dredging this stuff up, so let's turn the page and move on.

 

On the other hand it's hard to see how we can ever "start to heal", in DP's words, if this sickening (and apparently longstanding - WGS at Newcastle FFS) saga isn't fully brought into the open.

 

But Duncan would have to have ginormous testicles to start putting pen to paper on this one.

[dubai_phil]

Thanks, Duncan and DP.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say I don't think the full story will ever be told. That kind of threat and intimidation takes a toll but it's really, really saddening if MLT was sucked into it.

 

On the one hand there's the argument that there's nothing to gain by dredging this stuff up, so let's turn the page and move on.

 

On the other hand it's hard to see how we can ever "start to heal", in DP's words, if this sickening (and apparently longstanding - WGS at Newcastle FFS) saga isn't fully brought into the open.

 

But Duncan would have to have ginormous testicles to start putting pen to paper on this one.

 

 

Thanks CS....

 

And my whole holistic approach hasn't even mentioned

 

Why is WGS at Newcastle and not us? part of the story....

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Thanks, Duncan and DP.

 

This is what I'm talking about when I say I don't think the full story will ever be told. That kind of threat and intimidation takes a toll but it's really, really saddening if MLT was sucked into it.

 

On the one hand there's the argument that there's nothing to gain by dredging this stuff up, so let's turn the page and move on.

 

On the other hand it's hard to see how we can ever "start to heal", in DP's words, if this sickening (and apparently longstanding - WGS at Newcastle FFS) saga isn't fully brought into the open.

 

But Duncan would have to have ginormous testicles to start putting pen to paper on this one.

 

CS - watching Matt on Sky Sports tonight gives me mixed emotions. If he just came clean and held his hands up we or sorry I could start loving him again.

But I think I will let it drop - the clientele on here are not ready for this story and I guess in the greater picture it is not THAT important.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I'd agree with most of that. I just wonder if we're all a little too scared of proposing the logical next step. Stop spending a fortune on the academy, and build up the first team - just as Swansea did, and Hull before them.

 

The costs of doing so are about the same or less (Swansea's promotion-winning squad cost less than £1m in total to put together).

 

There was always something vaguely unseemly about chucking so many kids into the first team during the last disastrous year. It felt a little too much like exploitation.

 

I don't know whether the scouting system collapsed because of the expense of running the academy, but I can't help thinking the two are related. Certainly the absence of power and pace in the team - the qualities that virtually all our opponents in this league will have to some degree - is plain enough when you look at the four or five slight figures ambling about on the pitch.

 

It's time the academy tail stopped wagging the first-team dog.

 

An excellent point made about the academy and I completely agree about the tail wagging the dog. The solution IMO as I aluded to in my previous post, is that same as you suggest essentially. We HAVE an academy still - trouble is some of them are fulfilling the duties of 1st team players still and this must stop. AP needs to rethink the fundamentals of the 1st team make-up by bringing in the players essential to deploying a side more suited to L1 or CCC and then, only then, will he (we) start to see improved team and individual performances on the pitch.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Thanks CS....

 

And my whole holistic approach hasn't even mentioned

 

Why is WGS at Newcastle and not us? part of the story....

 

 

Wow - I think the Mulder and Scully references are starting to get to you Phil!

[John B]

An excellent point made about the academy and I completely agree about the tail wagging the dog. The solution IMO as I aluded to in my previous post, is that same as you suggest essentially. We HAVE an academy still - trouble is some of them are fulfilling the duties of 1st team players still and this must stop. AP needs to rethink the fundamentals of the 1st team make-up by bringing in the players essential to deploying a side more suited to L1 or CCC and then, only then, will he (we) start to see improved team and individual performances on the pitch.

 

I think we still need an academy for us to prosper in the long run.

 

Last season the youngsters were used because of the cost cutting in the past they have used when they are ready and the ones not up to standard have moved on is there any reason that we will not produce CCC Level players in the future?