Daren W Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Nick, sorry I dont agree and especially with the term that I see used quite a lot 'best intentions'. The word best indictates a major effort or significant achievement etc. In sport if someone performs to the best of their ability then they have usually given it everything and done all they possibly can to cover all the angles e.g a personal best. Taking things solely at face value IMO MLT obviously intended to save the club but did he do his best? IMO the conclusion has to be no and given his own reputation was on the line not to mention the survival of the club I think the word best in this instance is inapproriate. It goes back to Weston's appraisal of MLT's playing career and the suggestion that a 'laziness' in his play probably held him back from sporting greatness away from Southampton. IMO his role in Pinnacle suggests to me some of that laziness crept into his decision to stake his reputation on the bid and his role thereafter. And you know Matt personally do you? You know what he was told? You know what he did? No one, I repeat, no one, knows what happend and this witch hunt is all hypothetical and based on assumptions... The struggle we face isn't down to Pinnacle and the delay in our season. It's due to the fact that our players aren't good enough and we're reaping the benefit of the last years glorious experiment in playing the youth... I've yet to see one post on 19C about the abilities and attributes of our players. So easy to harrang Le Tissier for his role in the Pinnacle fiasco so less easy to look at the mess ML and AP have inherited from four years of gross mismangement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 And you know Matt personally do you? You know what he was told? You know what he did? No one, I repeat, no one, knows what happend and this witch hunt is all hypothetical and based on assumptions... The struggle we face isn't down to Pinnacle and the delay in our season. It's due to the fact that our players aren't good enough and we're reaping the benefit of the last years glorious experiment in playing the youth... I've yet to see one post on 19C about the abilities and attributes of our players. So easy to harrang Le Tissier for his role in the Pinnacle fiasco so less easy to look at the mess ML and AP have inherited from four years of gross mismangement.... Le Tissier made a mistake thats all most people make them every day mostly with good intentions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I didn't expect us to waltz this league - in my heart I dreamed it of course, I'm a fan after all. What I do expect, and I expect no less from every person on earth, is effort - the maximum permissible. Our players are not good enough on the whole - we know that. But it is amazing what organisation and discipline can do for even the least skilful player - especially when that player applies hard work to compensate for talent. Organisational drills at set-pieces should be child's play for a professional footballer really. If they're not capable of simple marking, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Organisational drills at set-pieces should be child's play for a professional footballer really. If they're not capable of simple marking, well... Well if that is the case we were lucky to score on Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Well if that is the case we were lucky to score on Saturday It's one thing to make a mistake once in a while, every week, mutliply is not quite so easy to stomach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 It's one thing to make a mistake once in a while, every week, mutliply is not quite so easy to stomach! Every week for the last week-and-a-half you mean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Le Tissier made a mistake thats all most people make them every day mostly with good intentions Exactly.... So why is 19C pursuing this with such fervour? Matt made a error of judgement, we've all done it. Or it could be that he was, shock horror, lied to?? Either way I cannot see how he's "tarnished his image" or how he's the subject of such a witchunt. That said, 19C tells us that doing nothing or not checking that things were ok makes Matt guilty of negligence. So what of those posters on here who backed Lowe ad infintum, even when it became apparent that his experiment with the "Golden Duo" was farcical, are they answerable as well? If Matt should be questioned then what about 19C and his blinkered backing of Lowe? Should he not have questioned Lowe and his role in our downfall?? Glass houses, stones, 19C... You do the maths... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 The trouble with supporters is that they only see the final product, never the process that gets it there. Pardew has stated that there are problems behind the scenes, not least the scouting set up. He has to be given time to sort these out, assemble a squad that bears his stamp and then get them playing the way he wants. That can't be done in three games. How can we judge progress? As has been said elsewhere, zero or better points by the end of next month would be a start, then perhaps we can move forwards the way Bournemouth did last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Exactly.... So why is 19C pursuing this with such fervour? Matt made a error of judgement, we've all done it. Or it could be that he was, shock horror, lied to?? Either way I cannot see how he's "tarnished his image" or how he's the subject of such a witchunt. That said, 19C tells us that doing nothing or not checking that things were ok makes Matt guilty of negligence. So what of those posters on here who backed Lowe ad infintum, even when it became apparent that his experiment with the "Golden Duo" was farcical, are they answerable as well? If Matt should be questioned then what about 19C and his blinkered backing of Lowe? Should he not have questioned Lowe and his role in our downfall?? Glass houses, stones, 19C... You do the maths...With the greatest of respect Daren, earlier on the thread you said no one knew the facts other than MLT and you were critical of 19C for making judgements. So why are you making judgements? I have no need or wish to get into any argument with you and I appreciate you have no time for 19C but I just thought I would point it out. For the record I do not agree with 19C views regarding MLT parading at the first home game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Weston I really have trouble understanding why you continually defend 19c despite him often being deliberately provocative and at other times downright insulting. You can't exactly say he hasn't brought a lot of it on himself, unless you know something I don't? I imagine that's why if you know his true identity and if rumours about illnesses such as schizophrenia are true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 With the greatest of respect Daren, earlier on the thread you said no one knew the facts other than MLT and you were critical of 19C for making judgements. So why are you making judgements? I have no need or wish to get into any argument with you and I appreciate you have no time for 19C but I just thought I would point it out. For the record I do not agree with 19C views regarding MLT parading at the first home game. Which bit you quoted could be construed as Daren making a judgement? He says that either (implied) Matt made an error of judgement or he was lied to by Pinnacle. Do you disagree with the assertion of most that they are happy that MLT acted in what he thought were the best interests of the club? I think that most sensible people who support the club will feel that the fond memories they had of MLT as a player will remain untarnished by this sorry episode. Sickening as it might be for one or two on here, the warmth of the ovation that Le Tiss received when he walked around the ground at St Mary's was testament enough that his popularity has not diminished one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Weston I really have trouble understanding why you continually defend 19c despite him often being deliberately provocative and at other times downright insulting. You can't exactly say he hasn't brought a lot of it on himself, unless you know something I don't? I imagine that's why if you know his true identity and if rumours about illnesses such as schizophrenia are trueYou are wrong with your implied illness. How do I continually defend him? I do not agree with much of what he says and he accepts that. He has never prevoked or insulted me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 19 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Weston I really have trouble understanding why you continually defend 19c despite him often being deliberately provocative and at other times downright insulting. You can't exactly say he hasn't brought a lot of it on himself, unless you know something I don't? I imagine that's why if you know his true identity and if rumours about illnesses such as schizophrenia are true Hypo I'm sure if you go through my post history you will find a few times when the blood has boiled and I may have reacted as many others do. Not saying it's right but there we go. However, when the mud really starts getting slung then I may give it back the best I can and I think it's these insults of which you refer. In terms of rumours about my health then I can't say I'm happy about it and in hindsight probably wish i had addressed the initial accusations a little differently or all together. Thankfully the rumours you mention are very wide of the mark and my long term prognosis although remains guarded it is better than had I been unfortunate to suffer an extremely grave illness such as the rumours and not really the basis for jokes as others have tried. In defence of Weston I think he is just one of those rare beasts on here who can rise above all the mud slinging and see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Which bit you quoted could be construed as Daren making a judgement? He says that either (implied) Matt made an error of judgement or he was lied to by Pinnacle. Do you disagree with the assertion of most that they are happy that MLT acted in what he thought were the best interests of the club? I think that most sensible people who support the club will feel that the fond memories they had of MLT as a player will remain untarnished by this sorry episode. Sickening as it might be for one or two on here, the warmth of the ovation that Le Tiss received when he walked around the ground at St Mary's was testament enough that his popularity has not diminished one bit. Whilst I agree with the thrust of what you say Wes, I still think it would be better if MLT actually explained a little fuller what went on. Daren says it was an error of judgement - I feel it went a little deeper. Certainly not looking to tarnish the finest player in Saints history but his involvement was not superficial and it would be good that he finally cleared the air. They still haven't actually told us why having been given exclusivity they had to rely on Crouch to pay the half million and then why they tried to hide behind the FL's ruling about the - 10 points. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and Mark Fry's role has not been properly explained. How/Why the hell did he choose Pinnacle over ML? This is not a MLT v 19C argument. I gather there are some in the higher reaches of SMS that are not overwhelmed with Pinnacle and don't forget Matt was very much part of Pinnacle - so much so he had agreed to be Chairman. I reiterate I believe Matt to have acted in the best interests of the club but he needs to tell us the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 (edited) FWIW on the MLT debate. As many know I helped out one of the consortiums When MLT was quoted as supporting Pinnacle it caused obvious concerns to our Pantomime Villain group. As a result a clear statement was madein the Echo that MLT would support anyone that SAVED the club That is still available somewhere on the Echo web site. Knowing a small bit about "corporate PR management" from my previous life, I have no doubt that MLT was used. I also have no doubt that he was sweet talked. One thing I do know and sorry I have absolutely no proof, is that MLT was not kept aware of ALL the details. IF anyone was to ask him today how he feels, I know the answer even though I only ever spoke to him after the last game at The Dell. My guess would be he felt he had been used as someone's PR b*tch. I disagree with 19C's stance on him, but then that is because I've probably been lucky enough to have played in that game and had a lot of training and so can analyse things. He isn't tainted, he isn't to blame, he WAS genuinely worried about the club and did what he felt was right AT THE TIME. How many of us have never made a bad decision? I bet it bugs him to death. How many of us did not want to post anything in case it damaged Pinnacle who, at least at the beginning were very real. Someone should ask him at that golf day thingy. Edited 19 August, 2009 by dubai_phil Swear filter lost the message sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Oh BTW I am willing to bet that before anyone at Pinnacle taked to MLT they asked him to sign a confidentiality agreement. Which is normal in these sorts of transactions once you get past the "have I got a deal for you" stage. Hence the lack of clarity from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I reiterate I believe Matt to have acted in the best interests of the club but he needs to tell us the truth. As Phil has pointed out, there's a strong chance that he can't. And if that's not the case, I at least would rather he wait until we get over this tricky transition stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 As Phil has pointed out, there's a strong chance that he can't. And if that's not the case, I at least would rather he wait until we get over this tricky transition stage. Fair point - perhaps Matt should just say this then? Mind you Pinnacle were never that clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Every week for the last week-and-a-half you mean?? Been asleep for the past four years then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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