Unrealistic expectations

[Thedelldays]

Actually I have 'Lord' on the back of my shirt.

as in..Lowe..?

[beatlesaint]

As in Snooty? Marland?

 

As In Haw-Haw

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Nineteen Canteen

An opinion I strongly agree with and tbh made more resolute with regard to MLT's alleged (I didn't see the programme) comments on Sky that it was obvious Pinnacle did not have the funds shortly after entering exclusivity which begs the question why at the 11th hour was he still backing the bid and giving dissenters such as Fitzhugh Fella a hard time?

 

Anyone who ignores this issue is kidding themselves and the reason I brought it up in my OP was the fact that it appears to be the same people with the unrealistic expectations of our season and IMO still living in the past.

I disagree with your comment re. MLT but at the same time my expectations are low, so bang goes another of your presumptions !

I have a question for you "do you seriously think that MLT had any intention of harming the club at any time" ?My assertion is that he made a mistake by backing the wrong horse but that his intentions were at all times honourable !!

 

I am not completely sure what his intentions were but agree mainly with your point of view. MLT has done so much for us as a club, it's difficult to see what he could do to seriously tarnish that. In my view the main fault goes down to the fans clamoring for MLT as chairman more than anything else. We all know Matty is so laid back that the amount of energy / thought given to anything is almost comatose, so the outcome should not come as that big a surprise.

 

We all got caught up with everything good that MLT had done for us, was going to be extended with Pinnacle, but in reality he was totally unsuited with the skill sets required. The one thing that I do not accept is the interview he gave last week where he still tried to partly offset the fault down to the position of the FL, that I found dumb beyond dumb.

 

It is very rare that hero's upon the pitch can translate that into management and for the sake of those memories I sometimes wonder if it is worth it. I look at Shearer at Newcastle and can only see that ending in tears. Certainly very passionate and really enjoyed the kick abouts in training, but it was difficult to spot the manager in there. Even when at the side of the pitch emotion seemed to be the over riding factor than structured analysis.

 

Matty's heart will always be in the right place for Saints and in a slightly different way you can say the same thing about Crouch. But it's like getting Frank Spencer round to do your plumbing. We all know his intentions are well meant and and that he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart, but equally we all know that we will be knee high in water any time soon.

[St Marco]

Hmm so hang on a minute what are people actually complaining about then? The fact we lost a game of football? Have people not complained after losing a game of football since football began? Is it not happy when you win, not happy when you lose? The difference being that when we lose we forget that game the day of the next one. I do not see anyone mentioning any of the things you try to imply. I do not see anyone mentioning their unhappyness with Pardew,our new owners etc.

What i see is people wanting the playing side to now match the enthusiasm the fans, manager and owner have for this club. All i see is people talking about what they think will improve the team. Is that not what football fans do? Should we be cheering everytime the opposition score a goal against us then?

I don't think anybody expects the team to beat any team simply because we are Southampton. What we expect is that every person who is on a huge wage earns that wage.

So not really sure what your post is about because even if ML go on to spend hundreds of millions on players and they put in performances like yesterday people would complain. If you ran a business and your staff turned up and put that effort in i doubt you would be happy.

So was this a thread aimed at slagging off the fans who think some players need replacing, such as do every fan at every club? Or was it just a snide attack at MLT?

[John B]

Or was it just a snide attack at MLT?

 

I dont know but it was a pretty good post I would have thought

[Tamesaint]

I am not completely sure what his intentions were but agree mainly with your point of view. MLT has done so much for us as a club, it's difficult to see what he could do to seriously tarnish that. In my view the main fault goes down to the fans clamoring for MLT as chairman more than anything else. We all know Matty is so laid back that the amount of energy / thought given to anything is almost comatose, so the outcome should not come as that big a surprise.

 

We all got caught up with everything good that MLT had done for us, was going to be extended with Pinnacle, but in reality he was totally unsuited with the skill sets required. The one thing that I do not accept is the interview he gave last week where he still tried to partly offset the fault down to the position of the FL, that I found dumb beyond dumb.

 

It is very rare that hero's upon the pitch can translate that into management and for the sake of those memories I sometimes wonder if it is worth it. I look at Shearer at Newcastle and can only see that ending in tears. Certainly very passionate and really enjoyed the kick abouts in training, but it was difficult to spot the manager in there. Even when at the side of the pitch emotion seemed to be the over riding factor than structured analysis.

 

Matty's heart will always be in the right place for Saints and in a slightly different way you can say the same thing about Crouch. But it's like getting Frank Spencer round to do your plumbing. We all know his intentions are well meant and and that he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart, but equally we all know that we will be knee high in water any time soon.

 

 

Silly old me. I thought that a thread entitled unrealistic expectations & which was started with a well written post would be about the unrealistic expectations of the fans this season. But no. Some people just love to cause unrest amongst the fans.

 

I thought that we had learnt the very hard way what happens when a club is divided but some people just love dissension. Quite quickly this thread has degenerated into a slagging off of the biggest hero this club has had over the last 20 years . Its almost as if some posters just hate the thought that supporters are united. I bet that when they were kids these people picked away at the scabs on thir knee after they fell over.

 

My biggest hope for this season is that the club sorts itself out. Lets get united behind the team and lets hope that the team gives us some performances to get behind. Lets hope that we start to move up the table. Lets hope ..... oh s&d it . I am going to join the moaners.....

 

I walked past MLT and he smelt .... I heard that MLT does not .....

[lordswoodsaints]

MLT never set out with the intention of harming the club or the fans,to presume he did is ludicrous,he like many others (many on here) got sucked into believing that they were the real deal,perhaps he is guilty of not doing some basic checks on these people,but you have to cast your minds back a couple of months and remember how desperate we all were looking for a saviour and Matty was no different.

He wanted the club to be safe and the pinnacle lot knew this and took advantage,this is how confidence tricksters get away with millions of pounds everyday of the week.

 

Going back to the OP about expectations,every fan at every club expect more than the club can deliver,even Manu and Chelsea fans want more,if they win the league then they expect more,they want to be European champions.

Every year for the last 40 years I expect saints to do well but it doesn't mean I'm going to get it,even last season I expected a play off place even though at the back of my mind I knew it wasn't going to happen..........this doesn't make me an over expectant idiot,it just makes me a fan.

 

If the club expect me to be a loyal fan that puts up with any sh1t,then it is only fair that I should expect the club to do well.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

As In Haw-Haw

 

"Jairmany calling, Jairmany calling"

[EastleighSoulBoy]

MLT never set out with the intention of harming the club or the fans,to presume he did is ludicrous,he like many others (many on here) got sucked into believing that they were the real deal,perhaps he is guilty of not doing some basic checks on these people,but you have to cast your minds back a couple of months and remember how desperate we all were looking for a saviour and Matty was no different.

He wanted the club to be safe and the pinnacle lot knew this and took advantage,this is how confidence tricksters get away with millions of pounds everyday of the week.

 

Going back to the OP about expectations,every fan at every club expect more than the club can deliver,even Manu and Chelsea fans want more,if they win the league then they expect more,they want to be European champions.

Every year for the last 40 years I expect saints to do well but it doesn't mean I'm going to get it,even last season I expected a play off place even though at the back of my mind I knew it wasn't going to happen..........this doesn't make me an over expectant idiot,it just makes me a fan.

 

If the club expect me to be a loyal fan that puts up with any sh1t,then it is only fair that I should expect the club to do well.

 

Precisely, and well put.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Hmm so hang on a minute what are people actually complaining about then? The fact we lost a game of football? Have people not complained after losing a game of football since football began? Is it not happy when you win, not happy when you lose? The difference being that when we lose we forget that game the day of the next one. I do not see anyone mentioning any of the things you try to imply. I do not see anyone mentioning their unhappyness with Pardew,our new owners etc.

What i see is people wanting the playing side to now match the enthusiasm the fans, manager and owner have for this club. All i see is people talking about what they think will improve the team. Is that not what football fans do? Should we be cheering everytime the opposition score a goal against us then?

I don't think anybody expects the team to beat any team simply because we are Southampton. What we expect is that every person who is on a huge wage earns that wage.

So not really sure what your post is about because even if ML go on to spend hundreds of millions on players and they put in performances like yesterday people would complain. If you ran a business and your staff turned up and put that effort in i doubt you would be happy.

So was this a thread aimed at slagging off the fans who think some players need replacing, such as do every fan at every club? Or was it just a snide attack at MLT?

 

Good post.

 

I too am confused to the purpose of this thread, having read other NC posts I can only assume some MLT agenda?

[Jonnyboy]

I think people have to keep realistic by realising that although the new owner was our saviour, he is still a money man through and through.

 

NC (Cortese, not Canteen) gave up a great job at a bank to take over here so I imagine he must have some big incentives for success, he must be motivated to make some money for himself...(Sky money from Prem?)

 

They will spend but only to get promotions, ultimately aiming for the prem in say 5 years would drastically increase the value of the club.

 

Now Ive written that I feel better. They need time, we have a great manager. Keep the faith, keep going to matches, keep staying positive. Quit the moaning and depression that has rung round St Marys for the last 5 years. Enjoy yourselves...!!!

[Under Weststand]

Hmm so hang on a minute what are people actually complaining about then? The fact we lost a game of football? Have people not complained after losing a game of football since football began? Is it not happy when you win, not happy when you lose? The difference being that when we lose we forget that game the day of the next one. I do not see anyone mentioning any of the things you try to imply. I do not see anyone mentioning their unhappiness with Pardew,our new owners etc.

What i see is people wanting the playing side to now match the enthusiasm the fans, manager and owner have for this club. All i see is people talking about what they think will improve the team. Is that not what football fans do? Should we be cheering everytime the opposition score a goal against us then?

I don't think anybody expects the team to beat any team simply because we are Southampton. What we expect is that every person who is on a huge wage earns that wage.

So not really sure what your post is about because even if ML go on to spend hundreds of millions on players and they put in performances like yesterday people would complain. If you ran a business and your staff turned up and put that effort in i doubt you would be happy.

So was this a thread aimed at slagging off the fans who think some players need replacing, such as do every fan at every club? Or was it just a snide attack at MLT?

Good post St Marco, are we now not allowed to be disappointed at a bad result anymore. I'm stated in the pre season thread this season for me is about rebuilding the playing staff & aiming for saftey as soon as possible, if we do that by christmas we may or may not have an outside chance of a push for a play off place (but doubt that will happen). But I think its more about putting everything in place for a challenge next year, & most people seem to be of that general opinion. Almost everyone on the after match thread are just saying what we've been saying for the last 2/3 years the spine of the team needs sorting out, nothing much controversial about that IMHO.

[eurosaint]

Or 'You can't do it, don't even try' - H Simpson

 

I won't buy his book because for all his talents IMO MLT didn't achieve what he should have done and the title kind of reflects my opinion. I like my sporting books to be inspiring and the pinnacle of sporting achievement as oppose to a sense of what if in this case for the man and not SFC.

 

That said I shall pop into Waterstones the next time my wife wants to go shopping and a lazy hour skimming through the chapters will probably tell me what I already know.

 

Maybe you'll find a copy of 'Me and My Bum Boys' by Rupert Lowe, there's a whole chapter all about you !!!

[SaintRobbie]

Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us.

 

Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father.

 

The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else.

 

I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years.

 

So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season.

 

One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter.

 

Sort of agree. But, the fundamental reason we are still crap despite having a decent manager is because we have crap players - bought and developed by Lowe. Once we clear out these losers and AP has his own team we can expect success IMHO.

 

Lowe's legacy is still on the pitch... everywhere else it has luckily died.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Actually I have 'Lord' on the back of my shirt.

 

Surely you should have Obsessed..

[View From The Top]

19C is a head mentalist and takes perverse pleasure by attacking MLT safe in the knowledge that will wind up all true Saints fans.

 

In other words, he's a cu*t, no matter what username/persona he's using.

[VectisSaint]

Sort of agree. But, the fundamental reason we are still crap despite having a decent manager is because we have crap players - bought and developed by Lowe. Once we clear out these losers and AP has his own team we can expect success IMHO.

 

Lowe's legacy is still on the pitch... everywhere else it has luckily died.

I keep reading this sort of thing. Don't get me wrong I detest Lowe, but how many crap players on the field yesterday were down to Lowe? Wotton? Anyone else? Perry (no actually Pearson brought him in). Thomas? No predates Lowe. Schneiderlin? Is he crap? Don't think so, maybe not playing to full potential yet, but you don't get to captain France u21s by being crap. As far as I can see that really leaves Davis and Rasiak - while I personally don't like Rasiak, its because he is lazy, not crap, and I don't think many will agree that Davis is crap (though for all his heroics I do think he is partly to blame for our inability to defend set corners). A couple of other youngsters (Lallana & James).

 

I will blame Lowe for most things, but I don't see how you can blame Lowe for us having crap players at the moment.

 

I am sure Wotton will be out once AP finds a replacement experienced MF, but at the moment I would rather see him in MF than 4 young players.

[John B]

I keep reading this sort of thing. Don't get me wrong I detest Lowe, but how many crap players on the field yesterday were down to Lowe? Wotton? Anyone else? Perry (no actually Pearson brought him in). Thomas? No predates Lowe. Schneiderlin? Is he crap? Don't think so, maybe not playing to full potential yet, but you don't get to captain France u21s by being crap. As far as I can see that really leaves Davis and Rasiak - while I personally don't like Rasiak, its because he is lazy, not crap, and I don't think many will agree that Davis is crap (though for all his heroics I do think he is partly to blame for our inability to defend set corners). A couple of other youngsters (Lallana & James).

 

I will blame Lowe for most things, but I don't see how you can blame Lowe for us having crap players at the moment.

 

I am sure Wotton will be out once AP finds a replacement experienced MF, but at the moment I would rather see him in MF than 4 young players.

 

 

Totally Agree by the way I think Wotton Rasiak is the only Lowe player apart from young Morgan

[wightman35]

I keep reading this sort of thing. Don't get me wrong I detest Lowe, but how many crap players on the field yesterday were down to Lowe? Wotton? Anyone else? Perry (no actually Pearson brought him in). Thomas? No predates Lowe. Schneiderlin? Is he crap? Don't think so, maybe not playing to full potential yet, but you don't get to captain France u21s by being crap. As far as I can see that really leaves Davis and Rasiak - while I personally don't like Rasiak, its because he is lazy, not crap, and I don't think many will agree that Davis is crap (though for all his heroics I do think he is partly to blame for our inability to defend set corners). A couple of other youngsters (Lallana & James).

 

I will blame Lowe for most things, but I don't see how you can blame Lowe for us having crap players at the moment.

 

I am sure Wotton will be out once AP finds a replacement experienced MF, but at the moment I would rather see him in MF than 4 young players.

 

Very well put; I agree with your comments

[aintforever]

Or 'You can't do it, don't even try' - H Simpson

 

I won't buy his book because for all his talents IMO MLT didn't achieve what he should have done and the title kind of reflects my opinion. I like my sporting books to be inspiring and the pinnacle of sporting achievement as oppose to a sense of what if in this case for the man and not SFC.

 

That said I shall pop into Waterstones the next time my wife wants to go shopping and a lazy hour skimming through the chapters will probably tell me what I already know.

 

I think being recognised as one of the best players the Prem has ever seen can safely be described as being pretty close to a pinnacle of sporting achievement.

 

How many hundred Prem goals would he have had to have scored to qualify for your reading list?

[miserableoldgit]

Unfortunately MLT is open to blame for his ionvolvement with Pinnacle.

To blame for what? MOST people ( apart from the ITK`s that KNEW from the start that the Pinnacle Group were time wasters:rolleyes:) thought that they were going to take over the club. You only had to look at the threads on here that expressed excitment at the possibility of a MLT/KK running of the club to see that. MLT was taken in like most other people. The club was saved and we are in a position now to go forward. This English trait of setting people up as heroes and then taking great pleasure in knocking them down is very tiresome.

[miserableoldgit]

Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us.

 

Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father.

 

The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else.

 

I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years.

 

So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season.

 

One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter.

Why do you have to post something that is generally sensible and spoil it? You just can`t help yourself can you?

[SaintRobbie]

I think any player who played last season and thus has the losing mentality of their previous manager and chairman and can't change his spots must be sold. Sorry, but we have Lowe's team in place regardless of who bought the players - some may make the conversion, but most wont.

 

Big clear out needed - particularly of the young players IMHO.

 

Keep buying Lambert's AP... when we finally see YOUR and MARCUS' team we may see some results.

Edited 16 August, 2009 by SaintRobbie

[John B]

To blame for what? MOST people ( apart from the ITK`s that KNEW from the start that the Pinnacle Group were time wasters:rolleyes:) thought that they were going to take over the club. You only had to look at the threads on here that expressed excitment at the possibility of a MLT/KK running of the club to see that. MLT was taken in like most other people. The club was saved and we are in a position now to go forward. This English trait of setting people up as heroes and then taking great pleasure in knocking them down is very tiresome.

 

This is a forum I believe where people can express their opinions we all have differing views just accept that.

 

The idea of MLT/KK running the club did not appear to be realistic to me unfortunately.

[Wes Tender]

Hmm so hang on a minute what are people actually complaining about then? The fact we lost a game of football? Have people not complained after losing a game of football since football began? Is it not happy when you win, not happy when you lose? The difference being that when we lose we forget that game the day of the next one. I do not see anyone mentioning any of the things you try to imply. I do not see anyone mentioning their unhappyness with Pardew,our new owners etc.

What i see is people wanting the playing side to now match the enthusiasm the fans, manager and owner have for this club. All i see is people talking about what they think will improve the team. Is that not what football fans do? Should we be cheering everytime the opposition score a goal against us then?

I don't think anybody expects the team to beat any team simply because we are Southampton. What we expect is that every person who is on a huge wage earns that wage.

So not really sure what your post is about because even if ML go on to spend hundreds of millions on players and they put in performances like yesterday people would complain. If you ran a business and your staff turned up and put that effort in i doubt you would be happy.

So was this a thread aimed at slagging off the fans who think some players need replacing, such as do every fan at every club? Or was it just a snide attack at MLT?

 

A very succinct and well expressed opinion. I agree entirely with the bit in bold. Nineteen really can't resist a dig at MLT (or McMenemy for that matter), exactly in the same way as one of his alter egos Flashman at the Charge, had to regularly have a dig at Crouch.

 

Apart from that, as you say, there really isn't anybody having a significant dig about the new owner or the manager, just at a player or two who either isn't performing because they want to be elsewhere, or because they are not up to the standard required.

 

One or two have praised the sentiments of the OP, but apart from the statements of the bleeding obvious, there are gaping holes that can and have been shot in his argument.

[Thedelldays]

This is a forum I believe where people can express their opinions we all have differing views just accept that.

 

The idea of MLT/KK running the club did not appear to be realistic to me unfortunately.

nor me...and could see quite early on that the pinnacle bid was a sham...

even got called a disgrace for suggesting it..

[SaintRobbie]

nor me...and could see quite early on that the pinnacle bid was a sham...

even got called a disgrace for suggesting it..

 

It wouldnt have been if it had lived up to its promises in financial terms. MLT was duped, but by god you cant fault his motives.

[miserableoldgit]

This is a forum I believe where people can express their opinions we all have differing views just accept that.

 

The idea of MLT/KK running the club did not appear to be realistic to me unfortunately.

It wasn`t realistic to me, but the point I was making was that with hindsight it is easy for certain individuals to say MLT was "a tarnished hero" becuse of his support of Pinnacle. At the time of the Pinnacle "exclusivity" MOST people were behind it and were excited by the possibility of MLT as Chairman. It`s the easiest thing in the world to look at the situation now and find fault in MLT`s actions. He should be judged on his time as a player with Saints. An error of judgement, that virtually nobody blamed him for at the time should never detract from the loyalty that the man gave to this club over many years.

[Wes Tender]

I keep reading this sort of thing. Don't get me wrong I detest Lowe, but how many crap players on the field yesterday were down to Lowe? Wotton? Anyone else? Perry (no actually Pearson brought him in). Thomas? No predates Lowe. Schneiderlin? Is he crap? Don't think so, maybe not playing to full potential yet, but you don't get to captain France u21s by being crap. As far as I can see that really leaves Davis and Rasiak - while I personally don't like Rasiak, its because he is lazy, not crap, and I don't think many will agree that Davis is crap (though for all his heroics I do think he is partly to blame for our inability to defend set corners). A couple of other youngsters (Lallana & James).

 

I will blame Lowe for most things, but I don't see how you can blame Lowe for us having crap players at the moment.

 

I am sure Wotton will be out once AP finds a replacement experienced MF, but at the moment I would rather see him in MF than 4 young players.

 

I agree with you in general, but when you ask how Lowe can be blamed for us having crap players now, there are certainly ways that blame can be attached. It depends on what one's thoughts are on the psychological aspects of the team. For all of last season they were unsettled because right at the start, Lowe dismissed Pearson. They then had two other managers during last season, neither experienced at managing in this country at that level. Those players had to watch as the most experienced players were either sold or shipped out on loan because we couldn't afford their wages. The squad then became the youth team, good Academy players, used to winning nearly every match. They received a baptism of fire and it must have really given their confidence a mighty knock to play their best and be beaten every week, playing a system they weren't used to. Then at the end of the season, they had to face the ignominy of relegation to the third division and the prospect of the club going out of existence before ML saved our bacon. Recently, they have had to prove themselves to a new manager, knowing that if he doesn't like them, there is an owner wealthy enough to pay for them to replaced.

 

Wouldn't you say that it has been a very stressful time psychologically this past season and that some of that stress could have been avoided had Pearson stayed and blooded the youngsters gradually by introducing themselves to play besides some more experienced players brought in for that purpose?

[70's Mike]

Interesting original post, it may carry more wait if the poster also posted regularly on threads about games etc rather than "political" issues

[stthrobber]

Wouldn't you say that it has been a very stressful time psychologically this past season and that some of that stress could have been avoided had Pearson stayed and blooded the youngsters gradually by introducing themselves to play besides some more experienced players brought in for that purpose?

 

Our current situation and our current crop of players is mainly due to mismanagement at all levels of the club by all who were running it during the last few years.

 

We are where we are, and now I think it's fair to say we have bottomed out of bad times and now the club and the team needs to be rebuilt.

 

I do think the Dutch experiment was mad, I do think the mix of youth and experience was totally imbalanced towards youth and in that respect Lowe can be blamed whatever reasons he had for doing it. We all know the debt had to be reduced but when it was announced that D Mcg was to be our main striker at the start of last season many of us thought "WTF?"

 

I don't have any particular aspirations for this season. I think Pardew will build a team to challenge, but probably not this season and with players still to come and in mindsets to be changed, it might take a few games for Saints to adjust to League 1. I've been on holiday and not seen them this season and will hopefully get a better view on Tuesday night.

 

There's no guarantee that Pearson could have kept us up, but he would have put teams out that would fight for the cause. On the other hand, bringing in two Dutch football league virgins who didn't get on, then spinning it as a bold new coaching set up, was naive at best, at worst sheer stupidity.

 

I just want everyone to look forward now as there's no point in looking back at what went on before, we can't change history, only our own versions of it and to be honest, there ain't much mileage in that.

[Thedelldays]

im actually shocked that so many predicted a saints win for this game

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15798

[Wes Tender]

Our current situation and our current crop of players is mainly due to mismanagement at all levels of the club by all who were running it during the last few years.

 

We are where we are, and now I think it's fair to say we have bottomed out of bad times and now the club and the team needs to be rebuilt.

 

I do think the Dutch experiment was mad, I do think the mix of youth and experience was totally imbalanced towards youth and in that respect Lowe can be blamed whatever reasons he had for doing it. We all know the debt had to be reduced but when it was announced that D Mcg was to be our main striker at the start of last season many of us thought "WTF?"

 

I don't have any particular aspirations for this season. I think Pardew will build a team to challenge, but probably not this season and with players still to come and in mindsets to be changed, it might take a few games for Saints to adjust to League 1. I've been on holiday and not seen them this season and will hopefully get a better view on Tuesday night.

 

There's no guarantee that Pearson could have kept us up, but he would have put teams out that would fight for the cause. On the other hand, bringing in two Dutch football league virgins who didn't get on, then spinning it as a bold new coaching set up, was naive at best, at worst sheer stupidity.

 

I just want everyone to look forward now as there's no point in looking back at what went on before, we can't change history, only our own versions of it and to be honest, there ain't much mileage in that.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Pardew has hinted that the mindset of the team needs changing to be a winning one and Merrington made much the same observation during the Huddersfield match. There are some good lads left over from last season and some decent signings brought in. With some new additions to replace those no longer able or willing to play to their full potential and a few wins under our belt, the increase in confidence could propel us forward once more.

[madsent]

I think any player who played last season and thus has the losing mentality of their previous manager and chairman and can't change his spots must be sold. Sorry, but we have Lowe's team in place regardless of who bought the players - some may make the conversion, but most wont.

 

Big clear out needed - particularly of the young players IMHO.

 

Keep buying Lambert's AP... when we finally see YOUR and MARCUS' team we may see some results.

 

If you look at our results, we've had a losing team since a couple of years before the Premier League started. The only blip was the play-off season which provided goals, wins and excitement and ironically ended up with the most criticised manager since Branfoot.

 

In the Premier League, we knew we'd stick it to at least one of the big teams every season and we'd survive with 10 home wins. We were punching above our weight and loving giving the big teams an occasional black eye. However, once we were relegated, we expected to win and the fact that we didn't adversely affected our mentality.

 

The fragile nature of the fans' confidence has been extremely noticeable since we slumped down the league in the first couple of months under Burley and it hasn't recovered. There is still a marked increase in tension at St Mary's after the interval and the expectation is for us to lose no matter what the score going into half-time. Nothing short of a few home wins will change that.

[Nineteen Canteen]

It wouldnt have been if it had lived up to its promises in financial terms. MLT was duped, but by god you cant fault his motives.

 

That maybe so Robbie but the double standards you display are startling. Had anyone else tried to save the club and failed in the fashion of MLT would have spent the rest of their days in pillory as I suggested earlier.

 

Do you think Lowe deliberately set out to put the club in administration? Of course that was not his attention but because of one major mistake appointing JP and not Wotte as manager from the start he failed in his bid to save the club.

 

What's the difference? It's all to easy to write off MLT's error because of his status but it doesn't change the fact he was culpable IMO inseriously hampering our chances of a decent start to the season and nearly losing a very good deal for the club. Unforgiveable in my eyes like those who can't forgive others and their role in our recent past.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Surely you should have Obsessed..

 

I'm still not on your ignore list I see. Another one who can't stand by their own comments or scared you may miss some entertaining debate?

[Nineteen Canteen]

Interesting original post' date=' it may carry more wait if the poster also posted regularly on threads about games etc rather than "political" issues[/quote']

 

Mike you must have missed my assessment of our chances on the pre-match thread to yesterday's game. As it turned out I think it's fair to say I was fairly accurate with my forecast based on my knowledge of Saints and research into Huddersfield's home record and pre season performances.

[saint_stevo]

nor me...and could see quite early on that the pinnacle bid was a sham...

even got called a disgrace for suggesting it..

 

As did i and i still get abuse about it, some even suggested that Pinnacle pulled out cos i posted the tyre kicking picture and associated it with TL.........lunatic fringe

[Nineteen Canteen]

Our current situation and our current crop of players is mainly due to mismanagement at all levels of the club by all who were running it during the last few years.

 

We are where we are, and now I think it's fair to say we have bottomed out of bad times and now the club and the team needs to be rebuilt.

 

I do think the Dutch experiment was mad, I do think the mix of youth and experience was totally imbalanced towards youth and in that respect Lowe can be blamed whatever reasons he had for doing it. We all know the debt had to be reduced but when it was announced that D Mcg was to be our main striker at the start of last season many of us thought "WTF?"

 

I don't have any particular aspirations for this season. I think Pardew will build a team to challenge, but probably not this season and with players still to come and in mindsets to be changed, it might take a few games for Saints to adjust to League 1. I've been on holiday and not seen them this season and will hopefully get a better view on Tuesday night.

 

There's no guarantee that Pearson could have kept us up, but he would have put teams out that would fight for the cause. On the other hand, bringing in two Dutch football league virgins who didn't get on, then spinning it as a bold new coaching set up, was naive at best, at worst sheer stupidity.

 

I just want everyone to look forward now as there's no point in looking back at what went on before, we can't change history, only our own versions of it and to be honest, there ain't much mileage in that.

 

I agree with your paragraph above and in hindsight Lowe would have been better off recruiting Wotte as the manager form the start and given Poortvilet's recents comments to the media his appoiintment was badly handled at best and a grave error of judgement at the worse. Not being party to any of the decisions/conversations that must have went on we can only take it at face value as you have done IMO. Same applies to MLT and the rest involved in a very sorry 3 years.

[Wes Tender]

That maybe so Robbie but the double standards you display are startling. Had anyone else tried to save the club and failed in the fashion of MLT would have spent the rest of their days in pillory as I suggested earlier.

 

Do you wonder for one minute why that is? It is because he is arguably the best player the club has ever produced, so he is given some latitude because nobody (except perhaps you) feels that he believed he was acting in anything other than the best interests of the club he loves.

 

Do you think Lowe deliberately set out to put the club in administration? Of course that was not his attention but because of one major mistake appointing JP and not Wotte as manager from the start he failed in his bid to save the club.

 

One major mistake? Just one major mistake?? My God, you are wearing your blinkers today! The biggest mistake he made was returning in league with that other failure, the Quisling. The second big mistake he made was getting shot of Pearson. Poortvliet was just the third mistake and Wotte was the fourth. The fifth mistake was farming out any quality in the team and playing the kids.

 

All in all, the most inept series of events that led to the obvious predictable conclusion of relegation and administration.

 

What's the difference? It's all to easy to write off MLT's error because of his status but it doesn't change the fact he was culpable IMO inseriously hampering our chances of a decent start to the season and nearly losing a very good deal for the club. Unforgiveable in my eyes like those who can't forgive others and their role in our recent past.

 

The Pinnacle bid might have delayed the preparations for the start of the season, but let's not forget who was responsible for us having a -10 point start this season instead of taking them last season. Did I see a thread from you accusing Lowe of gross incompetence over that? No, I didn't think so. Ok. We accept that for some bizarre reason you will never forgive MLT. Most of the others on here will never forgive Lowe.

 

That's settled then. Let's all move on, as what we are discussing is now history and nothing we say will change it, so please desist in your futile attempts to rewrite it.

[Nineteen Canteen]

The Pinnacle bid might have delayed the preparations for the start of the season, but let's not forget who was responsible for us having a -10 point start this season instead of taking them last season. Did I see a thread from you accusing Lowe of gross incompetence over that? No, I didn't think so. Ok. We accept that for some bizarre reason you will never forgive MLT. Most of the others on here will never forgive Lowe.

 

That's settled then. Let's all move on, as what we are discussing is now history and nothing we say will change it, so please desist in your futile attempts to rewrite it.

 

You missed off the 'see me'.

[eurosaint]

The Pinnacle bid might have delayed the preparations for the start of the season, but let's not forget who was responsible for us having a -10 point start this season instead of taking them last season. Did I see a thread from you accusing Lowe of gross incompetence over that? No, I didn't think so. Ok. We accept that for some bizarre reason you will never forgive MLT. Most of the others on here will never forgive Lowe.

 

That's settled then. Let's all move on, as what we are discussing is now history and nothing we say will change it, so please desist in your futile attempts to rewrite it.

 

Sadly, Wes, you are wasting your breath (and keystrokes) as the guy is beyond reason and only wants to stir the sh#t !

I am happy for MLT (both on and off the field!) to be a role model for any of my offspring but this pr*t has a preference for the Rupert the Reptile !

All I can say is that 'there's nought so queer as folk' !

End of story !

[Wes Tender]

You missed off the 'see me'.

 

Says the guy who started the useless thread.

 

Oh, did I miss an "if" anywhere in your further ramblings?

[Wes Tender]

Sadly, Wes, you are wasting your breath (and keystrokes) as the guy is beyond reason and only wants to stir the sh#t !

I am happy for MLT (both on and off the field!) to be a role model for any of my offspring but this pr*t has a preference for the Rupert the Reptile !

All I can say is that 'there's nought so queer as folk' !

End of story !

 

Sometimes I get some entertainment though, picking holes in his spurious and ill-thought out ramblings and pr*cking his pomposity.

[eurosaint]

Sometimes I get some entertainment though, picking holes in his spurious and ill-thought out ramblings and pr*cking his pomposity.

Just be careful, he might enjoy his pomposity being pr*cked !!

[saints triumph]

First post or comment that I have read by 19c that I agree with. One thing I would ask of him is not to forget the past, but leave it behind.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Sometimes I get some entertainment though, picking holes in his spurious and ill-thought out ramblings and pr*cking his pomposity.

 

Wes, 'why oh why' you defined the term pompous windbag and your school master's red pen

 

See me

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I am not completely sure what his intentions were but agree mainly with your point of view. MLT has done so much for us as a club, it's difficult to see what he could do to seriously tarnish that. In my view the main fault goes down to the fans clamoring for MLT as chairman more than anything else. We all know Matty is so laid back that the amount of energy / thought given to anything is almost comatose, so the outcome should not come as that big a surprise.

 

We all got caught up with everything good that MLT had done for us, was going to be extended with Pinnacle, but in reality he was totally unsuited with the skill sets required. The one thing that I do not accept is the interview he gave last week where he still tried to partly offset the fault down to the position of the FL, that I found dumb beyond dumb.

 

It is very rare that hero's upon the pitch can translate that into management and for the sake of those memories I sometimes wonder if it is worth it. I look at Shearer at Newcastle and can only see that ending in tears. Certainly very passionate and really enjoyed the kick abouts in training, but it was difficult to spot the manager in there. Even when at the side of the pitch emotion seemed to be the over riding factor than structured analysis.

 

Matty's heart will always be in the right place for Saints and in a slightly different way you can say the same thing about Crouch. But it's like getting Frank Spencer round to do your plumbing. We all know his intentions are well meant and and that he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart, but equally we all know that we will be knee high in water any time soon.

 

 

Absolutely spot on post.

Matt is the greatest Saints player of all time imo and a top notch bloke to boot but, he screwed up by not delving deep enough into a bogus consortium who wanted to use his popularity. And then he allowed the farce to continue far too long.

 

Matt would never have made a good chairman. Icon yes, Legend yes, Hero to young and old, yes but he needs a kick up his arse for swallowing, without question, the Pinnacle Pill.

[Snowballs2]

hOW SILLY SO EARLY IN THE SEASON TO BE FIGHTING, OUR SIGHTS SHOULD NOT BE TOO HIGH WITH A NEW OWNER. i CAN ALREADY FEEL A DIFFERENCE NOW IN COMPARISON WITH THE LAST FEW .

wE ALL WANT THINGS TO HAPPEN, WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT, BACKTHE BOARD AND SEE

[70's Mike]

Mike you must have missed my assessment of our chances on the pre-match thread to yesterday's game. As it turned out I think it's fair to say I was fairly accurate with my forecast based on my knowledge of Saints and research into Huddersfield's home record and pre season performances.

 

could you let me have the 8 score draws for this Saturday or the lottery numbers please, Meg