Nineteen Canteen Posted 15 August, 2009 Posted 15 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter.
the boy from saints Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Great articulate post which contrasts strongly with negative mutterings on the 4-4-2 thread.
Fan The Flames Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Even when being positive you have to slag people of.
unionhotel Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 An excellent post by 19C and probably mirrors what most fans' real expectations are. I certainly don't subscribe to the view of FTF. Certainly we would dearly like to set this league alight but we are clearly hampered by our limitations, having fallen so far. It is vital that we, as fans, continue to support the team and the heirarchy that's being set up for the future. We will succeed eventually.
chocco boxo Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 This season is all about staying up nothing else really. If we stay up then the next 2 years will be the test of Pardews managerial prowness.
shurlock Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby's a w**ker -'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score' a typically pseudo-profound/vacuous statement. The owner can't have it both ways- we packed an incredible 11K into the ground on Tuesday - it was pure and simple expectation, driven by Lambert' signing that accounted for the attendance as it did for the 20K against Millwall. It's almost impossible to have passion from the fans without some inflated expectations and irrational exuberance - to suggest otherwise is Nick Hornby mom and apple pie. You can't have it both ways. At any rate, i don't think its as simple as unrealistic expectations - alot of the reactions/posts seem to reflect fear, wafer-thin confidence which has been repeatedly battered over the past few seasons. Like the players on the pitch when they are under the kosh or have just conceded, its not difficult to understand why some fans still get nervous or think the worst following a setback. Just as the team and the hierarchy require time -as you point out- so do the fans. Overturning this fatalism won't happen overnight. Its second nature and for good reasons.
chocco boxo Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Is that why 17,510 turned up down the road?
eurosaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter. For a pleasant change I agree with you 19c except that I don't think that MLT has been tarnished. The vast majority of Saints fans realise that he only ever acted in the best interests of saving the club therefore should not be chastised for it !
Fuengirola Saint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 For a pleasant change I agree with you 19c except that I don't think that MLT has been tarnished. The vast majority of Saints fans realise that he only ever acted in the best interests of saving the club therefore should not be chastised for it ! He only slags of MLT to get a rise out of people, he is one very sad individual!
John B Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 He only slags of MLT to get a rise out of people, he is one very sad individual! So MLT cannot be critised for getting involved with a dodgy outfit which has caused our pre-season to be a shambles. I dont think so it was the MLT factor which kept the Pinnacle bid going for sometime and without we would be in a better position today and Mr Crouch would have more money.
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 A resonable post for change but as normal he cannot post without including more digs at MLT... When those things are ever present it makes you wonder why you waste time reading any of his posts at all. Time for ignore i think.
Draino76 Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Good post 19C but my natural state for supporting Southampton is usually just dissapointment; there is no bitterness about anything. I have blind faith in the club now, as evidenced by my prediction of an away win yesterday for us on my accumulator, which would have netted me £1k from a £2 stake. No, I'm definately not bitter.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 So MLT cannot be critised for getting involved with a dodgy outfit which has caused our pre-season to be a shambles. I dont think so it was the MLT factor which kept the Pinnacle bid going for sometime and without we would be in a better position today and Mr Crouch would have more money. An opinion I strongly agree with and tbh made more resolute with regard to MLT's alleged (I didn't see the programme) comments on Sky that it was obvious Pinnacle did not have the funds shortly after entering exclusivity which begs the question why at the 11th hour was he still backing the bid and giving dissenters such as Fitzhugh Fella a hard time? Anyone who ignores this issue is kidding themselves and the reason I brought it up in my OP was the fact that it appears to be the same people with the unrealistic expectations of our season and IMO still living in the past.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 A resonable post for change but as normal he cannot post without including more digs at MLT... When those things are ever present it makes you wonder why you waste time reading any of his posts at all. Time for ignore i think. To be fair you have been saying that for months.
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 To be fair you have been saying that for months. Yes probably, but gave you benefit of the doubt thinking you may one day quit the never ending rambling but i was so obviously wrong...
eurosaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 An opinion I strongly agree with and tbh made more resolute with regard to MLT's alleged (I didn't see the programme) comments on Sky that it was obvious Pinnacle did not have the funds shortly after entering exclusivity which begs the question why at the 11th hour was he still backing the bid and giving dissenters such as Fitzhugh Fella a hard time? Anyone who ignores this issue is kidding themselves and the reason I brought it up in my OP was the fact that it appears to be the same people with the unrealistic expectations of our season and IMO still living in the past. I disagree with your comment re. MLT but at the same time my expectations are low, so bang goes another of your presumptions ! I have a question for you "do you seriously think that MLT had any intention of harming the club at any time" ?My assertion is that he made a mistake by backing the wrong horse but that his intentions were at all times honourable !!
John B Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 I disagree with your comment re. MLT but at the same time my expectations are low, so bang goes another of your presumptions ! I have a question for you "do you seriously think that MLT had any intention of harming the club at any time" ?My assertion is that he made a mistake by backing the wrong horse but that his intentions were at all times honourable !! Just because he did not want to harm the club does not mean he was right to join the Pinnacle bid. But MLT for Chairman was not really a good idea
glkdcdes Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 An opinion I strongly agree with and tbh made more resolute with regard to MLT's alleged (I didn't see the programme) comments on Sky that it was obvious Pinnacle did not have the funds shortly after entering exclusivity which begs the question why at the 11th hour was he still backing the bid and giving dissenters such as Fitzhugh Fella a hard time? Anyone who ignores this issue is kidding themselves and the reason I brought it up in my OP was the fact that it appears to be the same people with the unrealistic expectations of our season and IMO still living in the past. Some times things seem more certain or obvious with hind sight. I was with pinnacle until the back end of the exclusivity period when they started coming up with excuses and un beleivable explanations as to why they were not able to finalise. I bet mlt was aware earlier that things werent right, but who in his position could do anything other than hope he was wrong and plough on. For 19canteen to slag mlt off reflects more on his character than mlts, who with out any doubt acted out of his love of the club.
Wes Tender Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Why, oh why must you continually harp on about this? You are like a stuck record and it is becoming boring. Any post you make that contains any reasonable argument, is devalued by your snide comments about MLT. You seem to overlook that ML is an astute businessman and the upside for him is that he probably bought the club for less because of the Pinnacle fiasco. And I don't see any fan giving you reason to state that they have forgotten how close we came to going out of existence. As for this alleged shoddy treatment, that was down to Fry, was it not? All's well that ended well, so stop trying to muddy the waters. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Pardew has said that he was aiming for a play-off place before. Presumably the misguided legend you refer to is MLT (yet again!) He's hopeful, I'm hopeful, most of us are hopeful, apart from you. That doesn't mean to say that anybody is unrealistic. What do you hope for, Nineteen? Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. Of course our spending will be commensurate with the league we're in. I'll explain it to you. It costs less to buy the quality of players required in this division than it does to buy the quality of players needed to play in the European Championship league. As for the Liebherr family philosophy, Markus has earned getting on for 3 billion. Are you going to tell him how much of that he is allowed to spend? I'm quite sure that he appreciates that the current squad is not good enough to get us out of this division and that he will need to invest some funds in the players who can achieve that and then some more expenditure will be needed to get us out of the Fizzy Pop when we are there. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. Why is the unrealistic expectations of the fans a hurdle to our success? Please explain it to me, as it is nonsense. If the owner or the manager or the players had unrealistic expectations, you might have a point. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. Where is the evidence that anybody is not confident that Pardew will turn us around? Making comparisons with the past 5 years is a total red herring. Do you think that anybody does not realise the differences between Markus Liebherr and Rupert Lowe then? So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. It has been made perfectly clear that this is a season of stabilisation and that next season is the one where we realistically target promotion. But reaching the play-offs is not impossible, so we ought to strive for it, accepting that if we don't achieve it, at least we will have given it our best shot. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter. How do you know that it is a certainty. A probabilty perhaps. But I see no evidence that attendance numbers have fallen, quite the contrary. The number of ST sales is quite significantly up on those for the last regime. It is a bit early in the day for you to start sermonising about what our new owner may or may not do under certain circumstances.
Wes Tender Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Anyone who ignores this issue is kidding themselves and the reason I brought it up in my OP was the fact that it appears to be the same people with the unrealistic expectations of our season and IMO still living in the past. You're the one living in the past. You're like a dog with a bone. For crissakes, stop your petty b itching and move on.
JustMike Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter. a true (if long winded) summary.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 (edited) I disagree with your comment re. MLT but at the same time my expectations are low, so bang goes another of your presumptions ! I have a question for you "do you seriously think that MLT had any intention of harming the club at any time" ?My assertion is that he made a mistake by backing the wrong horse but that his intentions were at all times honourable !! At the risk of taking my own thread off topic I will answer your question. My opinion is that MLT did not at any time set out to harm the club. However, given his revered status at the club he must have known the importance that would be attached to his endorsement of the Pinnacle bid. He must also have known that if the bid failed to deliver his status would become somewhat tarnished and as that reputation is his major asset which could provide him with a job for life he had far more to lose than Pinnacle or the administrators. If he did make a mistake I don't understand why just a few days before the bid was pulled he was still backing it and how that corresponds to his recent comments on Sky as I mention above. Until such time Matt comes clean about the whole affair and admits he made a mistake as you put it then I will remain deeply unhappy about how IMO he has conducted himself including his appearance at Millwall last week that I feel detracted from Mr Liebherr's first competitive game and the man we have most to thank for guaranteeing our future. IMO MLT was lazy and laid back about endorsing this product and given the seriousness of the situation should have taken some independent and expert advice instead of allegedly relying on those with most to gain. Of course I maybe wrong but taking everything at face value IMO this is currently my conclusion but would welcome a full and frank appraisal from the man himself. The title of his autobigraphy kind of says it all about his attitude to life and whilst someone as skilled as him on the pitch can afford to take that stance away from it you will eventually be found wanting. Regrettably, IMO MLT turned out to be as far removed from Niall Quinn with regards chairman material as Quinn was as far removed from him on the pitch. Edited 16 August, 2009 by Nineteen Canteen
JustMike Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 At the risk of taking my own thread off topic I will answer your question. My opinion is that MLT did not at any time set out to harm the club. However, given his revered status at the club he must have known the importance that would be attached to his endorsement of the Pinnacle bid. He must also have known that if the bid failed to deliver his status would become somewhat tarnished and as that reputation is his major asset which could provide him with a job for life he had far more to lose than Pinnacle or the tyre kickers. If he did make a mistake I don't understand why just a few days before the bid was pulled he was still backing it and how that corresponds to his recent comments on Sky as I mention above. Until such time Matt comes clean about the whole affair and admits he made a mistake as you put it then I will remain deeply unhappy about how IMO he has conducted himself including his appearance at Millwall last week that I feel detracted from Mr Liebherr's first competitive game and the man we have most to thank for guaranteeing our future. IMO MLT was lazy and laid back about endorsing this product and given the seriousness of the situation should have taken some independent and expert advice instead of allegedly relying on those with most to gain. Of course I maybe wrong but taking everything at face value IMO this is currently my conclusion but would welcome a full and frank appraisal from the man himself. The title of his autobigraphy kind of says it all about his attitude to life and whilst someone as skilled as him on the pitch can afford to take that stance away from it you will eventually be found wanting. Regrettably, IMO MLT turned out to be as far removed from Niall Quinn with regards chairman material as Quinn was as far removed from him on the pitch. imo MLT was fed a load of bull by more than one person, as was LC. Promised the earth but delivered sweet FA. He is not tarnished, just conned into something he wanted to protect / save. Something we all believed when TL first appeared on here
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 How do you know that it is a certainty. A probabilty perhaps. But I see no evidence that attendance numbers have fallen, quite the contrary. The number of ST sales is quite significantly up on those for the last regime. It is a bit early in the day for you to start sermonising about what our new owner may or may not do under certain circumstances. Wes as someone said recently on here 'react to the post and not the poster'. I'm sure I don't need to tell you the meaning of the word 'if' or the fact I was reacting to the tone of some unrealistic posts and if that tone doesn't change whilst Pardew plays catch up we may be in trouble as evidenced in our recent past. I'm afraid I didn't read your dissection of my comments as usual you revert to your anal windbag approach and tbh I couldn't get past your opening 3 words - 'Why oh Why' - I am not Barry Took and this is not Points of View.
Wes Tender Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Wes as someone said recently on here 'react to the post and not the poster'. I'm sure I don't need to tell you the meaning of the word 'if' or the fact I was reacting to the tone of some unrealistic posts and if that tone doesn't change whilst Pardew plays catch up we may be in trouble as evidenced in our recent past. I'm afraid I didn't read your dissection of my comments as usual you revert to your anal windbag approach and tbh I couldn't get past your opening 3 words - 'Why oh Why' - I am not Barry Took and this is not Points of View. Well, that's the trouble with you, Nineteen.You just can't brook that somebody might dissect your dissertation bit by bit and prove what a load of tosh it is. The usual self-assured claptrap epitomised by all your other aliases.
WestSaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nothing on that opening post I cannot agree with. Fans do have high expectations however - that is why they are fan'atic's and I don't there is anything wrong with that. We have a sensible management structure though and tbh I don't think the expectations on this forum are OTT. It is great to have a team to support. Most people i believe know that this club may not be an overnight sensation but we will get there imo
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 imo MLT was fed a load of bull by more than one person, as was LC. Promised the earth but delivered sweet FA. He is not tarnished, just conned into something he wanted to protect / save. Something we all believed when TL first appeared on here That maybe the case Mike and I think you are right IMO but that does not excuse the alleged view that he did not take independent advice. I suppose to draw an analogy its a bit like buying a house solely on an Estate Agents bull ( who you happen to know) as oppose to appointing a solicitor and an independent valuation before proceeding. MLT was probably hoodwinked but he made some grave error's of judgement IMO or if you prefer 'mistakes'. Not everyone fell for the TL posts most notably Unguided Missile and I still remain of the opinion that serious businessmen trying to close major deals do not communicate their business on an internet forum but perhaps I'm just old-fashioned.
eurosaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 At the risk of taking my own thread off topic I will answer your question. My opinion is that MLT did not at any time set out to harm the club. However, given his revered status at the club he must have known the importance that would be attached to his endorsement of the Pinnacle bid. He must also have known that if the bid failed to deliver his status would become somewhat tarnished and as that reputation is his major asset which could provide him with a job for life he had far more to lose than Pinnacle or the administrators. If he did make a mistake I don't understand why just a few days before the bid was pulled he was still backing it and how that corresponds to his recent comments on Sky as I mention above. Until such time Matt comes clean about the whole affair and admits he made a mistake as you put it then I will remain deeply unhappy about how IMO he has conducted himself including his appearance at Millwall last week that I feel detracted from Mr Liebherr's first competitive game and the man we have most to thank for guaranteeing our future. IMO MLT was lazy and laid back about endorsing this product and given the seriousness of the situation should have taken some independent and expert advice instead of allegedly relying on those with most to gain. Of course I maybe wrong but taking everything at face value IMO this is currently my conclusion but would welcome a full and frank appraisal from the man himself. The title of his autobigraphy kind of says it all about his attitude to life and whilst someone as skilled as him on the pitch can afford to take that stance away from it you will eventually be found wanting. Regrettably, IMO MLT turned out to be as far removed from Niall Quinn with regards chairman material as Quinn was as far removed from him on the pitch. I take it that you do not subscribe to the old saying : "It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all" It seems clear to most that he will do anything to support the club he cherishes and (whilst not being perfect) this is why he acted as he did ! Ps. I take it you won't be buying his book, then ??
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 Well, that's the trouble with you, Nineteen.You just can't brook that somebody might dissect your dissertation bit by bit and prove what a load of tosh it is. The usual self-assured claptrap epitomised by all your other aliases. IF.......a little word that if read could have saved you a lot of trouble Wes.
ottery st mary Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Went to the Exeter v Norwich game yesterday and came away believing that Saints will pick up easy points from these two teams....Then I read the reports from Huddersfield and it dawned on me unless we get 4/5 new players we will be no better than what I saw yesterday. A few good players but many that were no better than Conference standard. MAYBE my expectations are still toooo high. As for wingers Wes Hoolahan and Simon Whaley in the right side would be electric and very good service to Lambert....Grant Holt was a big handful but not in the same league as RL..BUT works a lot more than Rasiak to make things happen around him. There were a couple more that would easily make the Saints side but many as stated lower league standard. McCallister came on and is a big lump and good in the air but not Saints standard. Gill was ok but no better than Gillet...Adeyemi looked useful/powerful young midfielder. Jens Berthel Askou a big lump of a centreback and would be good in our defence. Do Norwich need the money? Hopefully new signings this week. COYRs
Wes Tender Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter. You'e quite right, Nineteen. If I'd seen that "if", it would have justified your whole post. It's obvious that you intend to post something in the form of a debate, but don't realise that you present it as fact instead.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 I take it that you do not subscribe to the old saying : "It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all" It seems clear to most that he will do anything to support the club he cherishes and (whilst not being perfect) this is why he acted as he did ! Ps. I take it you won't be buying his book, then ?? Or 'You can't do it, don't even try' - H Simpson I won't buy his book because for all his talents IMO MLT didn't achieve what he should have done and the title kind of reflects my opinion. I like my sporting books to be inspiring and the pinnacle of sporting achievement as oppose to a sense of what if in this case for the man and not SFC. That said I shall pop into Waterstones the next time my wife wants to go shopping and a lazy hour skimming through the chapters will probably tell me what I already know.
Ewell Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Great articulate post which contrasts strongly with negative mutterings on the 4-4-2 thread. So you think his bitter and twisted attempts to blame one of if not the greatest player to ever where the Saints shirt is great do you? This chap has to have someone to vent his ill conceived and nasty comments at he is never happy unless he has a grudge against someone. Please read between the lines and don't give him any credit as his post isn't about fans expectations but just another cheap dig at MLT.
ottery st mary Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 I do not believe for one moment that Nineteen Canteen is a Saints supporter.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 I do not believe for one moment that Nineteen Canteen is a Saints supporter. Says the man who went to watch Exeter v Norwich
ottery st mary Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Says the man who went to watch Exeter v Norwich Correct..But you are still not a Saints supporter and never have been.
John B Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 So you think his bitter and twisted attempts to blame one of if not the greatest player to ever where the Saints shirt is great do you? This chap has to have someone to vent his ill conceived and nasty comments at he is never happy unless he has a grudge against someone. Please read between the lines and don't give him any credit as his post isn't about fans expectations but just another cheap dig at MLT. Unfortunately MLT is open to blame for his ionvolvement with Pinnacle.
stthrobber Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Wes as someone said recently on here 'react to the post and not the poster'. I'm sure I don't need to tell you the meaning of the word 'if' or the fact I was reacting to the tone of some unrealistic posts and if that tone doesn't change whilst Pardew plays catch up we may be in trouble as evidenced in our recent past. I'm afraid I didn't read your dissection of my comments as usual you revert to your anal windbag approach and tbh I couldn't get past your opening 3 words - 'Why oh Why' - I am not Barry Took and this is not Points of View. I read your original post, but I don't agree with your view of MLT as tarnished. I believe he was hoodwinked as to the availability of funds and thereafter probably fed a load of bull's faecal matter. I think he was more than likely in difficult position by then as if he had openly withdrawn his support for the Pinaccle bid and then the funds had materialised, then he would have looked like a prize pirck. None of us really know the ins and outs of the whole deal but nobody could surely believe that MLT had anything other than the best interests of the club at heart. He was played from the start imo and should have our sympathy rather than scorn, he is after all, not a money man, he's an ex footballer admittedly with a much higher IQ than many other ex footballers (and current ones) As to the Pinaccle internet charm offensive, it reeks of the Mike Wilde campaign of a few years ago which led to the bitterness and jealousy that saw Keith Legg finally give up the ghost if Saints Forever. Although our club is now safe from the 3 amEGOs, it does disappoint me that threads here still degenerate into petty sniping rather than as someone has suggested, reaction to the post they've read and that is a shame
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 Correct..But you are still not a Saints supporter and never have been. I think there are a few respected individuals who will be able to confirm I am a supporter and very passionate and committed one at that but one who is not deluded by mob rule and will base his opinions on his own observations even if it is contrary to popular misheld beliefs.
dellgirl Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 If you have been a legend for your club and truly love it as I think MLT has..what would be your dream..someone comes along and says we are going to take over your beloved club and would you like to be Chairman..its Christmas morning and all you dreams have come true,you are a child again..don't judge him too harshly..the star dust has gone only reality remains and luckily he still has a job.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 I read your original post, but I don't agree with your view of MLT as tarnished. I believe he was hoodwinked as to the availability of funds and thereafter probably fed a load of bull's faecal matter. I think he was more than likely in difficult position by then as if he had openly withdrawn his support for the Pinaccle bid and then the funds had materialised, then he would have looked like a prize pirck. None of us really know the ins and outs of the whole deal but nobody could surely believe that MLT had anything other than the best interests of the club at heart. He was played from the start imo and should have our sympathy rather than scorn, he is after all, not a money man, he's an ex footballer admittedly with a much higher IQ than many other ex footballers (and current ones) As to the Pinaccle internet charm offensive, it reeks of the Mike Wilde campaign of a few years ago which led to the bitterness and jealousy that saw Keith Legg finally give up the ghost if Saints Forever. Although our club is now safe from the 3 amEGOs, it does disappoint me that threads here still degenerate into petty sniping rather than as someone has suggested, reaction to the post they've read and that is a shame I think you are largely right about MLT's involvement but that does not IMO excuse his lack of judgement and it would seem lack of independent advice. I would personally be happier if he came clean about the whole affair and I found his alleged comments on Sky inappropriate to say the least and did he provide an apology for his own alleged ommissions? Many remain blinkered by MLT's deity status at the club and any other individual who acted in a similar way and with the same result would have been put in pillory until kingdom come and that I'm afraid is double standards and unacceptable.
Toomer Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 I do not believe for one moment that Nineteen Canteen is a Saints supporter. I think he could well be as, a few rows in front of me at the Northampton game there was a chap with BEAST on the back of his shirt.
ottery st mary Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 I think there are a few respected individuals who will be able to confirm I am a supporter and very passionate and committed one at that but one who is not deluded by mob rule and will base his opinions on his own observations even if it is contrary to popular misheld beliefs. Good luck to you and your little games....To me you are a sad human being but entitled to your opinion .....I am no angel with regards to posts and some peeps...but you do not support the Saints and never have done...... I will leave you alone as we are wasting each other and other posters time. Hope you are going to stay well and I mean that old chap.
Tamesaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 I think he could well be as, a few rows in front of me at the Northampton game there was a chap with BEAST on the back of his shirt. But how about: Canteen Speculator Flashman Bear and any other names he has used??? If it was him, he would have had those names as well!! :-) The OP was a good piece. Unfortunately in true 19C style he had to get a couple of digs in on his latest obsession - MLT.... and the majority of the replies to his original posting now relate to MLT. I just think that the bloke wants attention. I feel sorry for him and for anyone else who suffers from the same affliction as him. If he had wanted to open up a debate on the expectations of our supporters he would not have had the dig at MLT. A pity really because there is a lot of good stuff in the original post.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 Good luck to you and your little games....To me you are a sad human being but entitled to your opinion .....I am no angel with regards to posts and some peeps...but you do not support the Saints and never have done...... I will leave you alone as we are wasting each other and other posters time. Hope you are going to stay well and I mean that old chap. You are wrong on so many levels and I'm surprised you have only just woken up to the fact you irrelevant posts and attempts at 'humour' as indeed wasting the time of forum members.
Nineteen Canteen Posted 16 August, 2009 Author Posted 16 August, 2009 But how about: Canteen Speculator Flashman Bear and any other names he has used??? If it was him, he would have had those names as well!! :-) The OP was a good piece. Unfortunately in true 19C style he had to get a couple of digs in on his latest obsession - MLT.... and the majority of the replies to his original posting now relate to MLT. I just think that the bloke wants attention. I feel sorry for him and for anyone else who suffers from the same affliction as him. If he had wanted to open up a debate on the expectations of our supporters he would not have had the dig at MLT. A pity really because there is a lot of good stuff in the original post. Actually I have 'Lord' on the back of my shirt.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Nick Hornby was right when he wrote 'The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score'. This is surely never more true than the reaction of some fans on here who seem to have forgotten that a few weeks ago we were close to going out of business but saved by one man who despite some allegedly shoddy treatment as a result of being usurped by a bunch of chancers and IMO a tarnished legend he decided not to hold that treatment against us. Pardew has made it clear, mid table is the aim and only misguided legends talk of us as play off hopefuls maybe to cloud the role he has unwittingly or otherwise played in our poor start. Oldknow has informed us our spending will be commensurate with the league we are in and we know Mr Liebherr's deceased father's doctrine was only spend what you earn which at the moment I reckon Mr Liebherr is down about £10m and any further loans to the club will be a gamble in line with the policy followed by his father. The biggest hurdle to our success will as always will be the unrealistic expectations of our fans and as per my analysis on the build up thread to today's match we were very unlikely to win as Huddersfield are strong at home, had a great pre-season compared with our preparation which conservatively thanks to the tyre kickers and their IMO misleading endorsement we are 6 weeks behind everyone else. I have every confidence by the middle of next month Pardew will turn us around provided as fans we maintain the same level of passion and support and don't start getting on the case of our saviour/owner or the manager and his team. If we do we will most assuredly reap what we sow as we have in the past 5 years. So let's adjust our expectations and accept we are a league 1 team playing in league 1 and with a 10 point deficit so to avoid relegation with a degree of comfort will be an achievement and the absolute No 1 priority, no more no less. Anything else will be a bonus but only that in preparation for a serious challenge next season. One thing is for certain if we voice dissent or reduce our support in any numbers then IMO Mr Liebherr's pockets will grow deeper but his arms shorter. Very valid points which, if not made slightly personal, would have been totally constructive!
ottery st mary Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 You are wrong on so many levels and I'm surprised you have only just woken up to the fact you irrelevant posts and attempts at 'humour' as indeed wasting the time of forum members. Coyrs Sorry forgot to mention..I will be attending Plymouth, Torquay AND Brizzle Rovers......My next Saints game will be Brentford. Not so many Saints games nowadays due to work.....But will do my best when I can. I am sure some posters will forgive me....Off to church to pray for you and The Mighty Saints......AND a few extra prayers for MLT, Lawrie and Crouchey.....AND for you especially a word for Rupes.:
Tamesaint Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Actually I have 'Lord' on the back of my shirt. I always thought there was something theatrical about you. Can I just say , Andrew, that I enjoyed Cats but think that Joseph was your best work. How is the missus and her polo ponies??
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 16 August, 2009 Posted 16 August, 2009 Actually I have 'Lord' on the back of my shirt. As in Snooty? Marland?
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