Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 They havent commented? No? So how do we know that the work permit has been refused? Where has the 'other sources' got their information from? ... ... ... The club! The club would have told your 'other sources' that the deal is off due to failure to obtain the work permit. My username is an in-house joke which you obviously are not aware of, not a dig at you, but I am not a lawyer. If it was due to a 'work permit' problem then fair enough, but if we see him running out in a Charlton shirt next season, or any other team in the UK for that matter, then, Im sorry, the 'work permit' excuse was obviously not the real reason. If he wanted more money and we were not prepared to pay that, then just say it. It would be respected more than if we found out it was just an excuse to save face. So you are not a lawyer (my, I'm surprised..!), but somebody who just makes assumptions. Nobody in the club has even commented on the player joining (officially) - everthing on here and in the press is hearsay. So, how have you been lied to - did the club phone you and tell you that the work permit has been sorted? Naaah I thought not. We, or indeed some other club, might yet surmount this problem which will allow him to play - and if that is so then good luck to all parties. But to suggest, without one iota of substance, that the club is lying to the fans is rubbish. My how Markus must be happy to know that we are 100 percent committed to the club and not at all fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The Club have said diddly-squat about this transfer and you may not be used to a professional set up (because we've never had one before) but they do not/will not announce a signing until pen has been put to paper. Murty being a case in point! That's fair enough, but then how do we know about a) him having a medical and being offered a contract and b) the fact that the work permit was refused. Just because there has been no 'official' announcement, doesnt mean the club havent said anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 They havent commented? No? So how do we know that the work permit has been refused? Where has the 'other sources' got their information from? ... ... ... The club! Or more likely from the FA, the player or the player's agent, or even the Home office for that matter, since it is an immigration issue. Plenty of sources, not just the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 ...but apparently he's passed a medical and agreed terms... Or has he? Woooooo scooby doo moment.... I would assume if we do not bother appealing it will be because we have little or no chance of being successful. Or we need somebody in NOW, so AP will move to the next target!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Wow, it seems the old regime has turned everyone into a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Relax, it's Friday tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 this really p!sses me off. Here is a player who ha been playing in this country for ages, paying UK taxes and wants to continue to do so and yet he cant get a permit...and yet you only have to go into town shopping and see 100's of foreigners doing fook all!! Im not a racist but the laws suck on this sort of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Well, the idiot brigade are certainly out in force on this thread. Edit: I posted this before seeing the post above. But the post above is the worst of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The club are not lying about this, why would they? This isn't Lowe we're talking about. We offered Jaidi a contract. If his demands exceeded our offer to the point that we couldn't come to an agreement, I'm sure the club would have come out and said so. Markus has already said the club is going to be run as a business, which means financial prudency, and I for one agree with him. We aren't going to be splashing out wages on big time Charlies with big reputations, so there is no need for any cover up. Odd as it seems, I am sure this is just a work permit issue and nothing more sinister. Exactly - coupled with the fact that the club has not (to my knowledge) commented officially about this particular player as well, makes it somewhat difficult to see where we have been lied to by SFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I agree completely. He's patently not going to be available for Saturday, but it shouldn't be given up on, IMO. I would stress that I don't know whether we've already tried that, but the BBC article certainly doesn't stress that an appeal existed, never mind been turned down, it only says that the initial application was rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 That's fair enough' date=' but then [b']how do we know about a) him having a medical and being offered a contract and b) the fact that the work permit was refused. [/b]Just because there has been no 'official' announcement, doesnt mean the club havent said anything. Hello, because that information has come from unofficial sources. Sources 'supposedly' ITK from outside the club. Sources in the media that are guessing to fill column inches. Sources that sit where you are now, guessing and speculating. SFC 'The Club' have told you (us) nothing officially about this player - they have not lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It's not him, it's us! We're not at the highest level of football anymore, ergo he cannot show that he would be contributing at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opthomps Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 its disasterous - and laughable. hes one of the few immigrants who would actually be working amongs the millions of free loaders - give him a sodding work permit ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 if he had stayed at Brum, would they have had the same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Starting to think that is the case yeah' date=' but lying to the fans this early on is not good, especially if he signs for another club next week! We have had enough of false promises and smoke screens in the past. I was hoping the new regime would atleast give us honesty so I will not be happy if this is a covering story.[/quote'] So you are not a lawyer (my, I'm surprised..!), but somebody who just makes assumptions. Nobody in the club has even commented on the player joining (officially) - everthing on here and in the press is hearsay. So, how have you been lied to - did the club phone you and tell you that the work permit has been sorted? Naaah I thought not. We, or indeed some other club, might yet surmount this problem which will allow him to play - and if that is so then good luck to all parties. But to suggest, without one iota of substance, that the club is lying to the fans is rubbish. My how Markus must be happy to know that we are 100 percent committed to the club and not at all fickle. Micky please point out where I have said THE CLUB HAS LIED TO ME I have said I agreed with the post I quoted and that I am also starting to think that the club have said it's a work permit problem to save face. I then went onto say I would not be happy if this is a covering story. I did not say "I am not happy as this IS a covering story did I?" No they have not commented on it officially as I have previously stated, but someone at the club has spoken. Hearsay is different. Otherwise I could start a big rumour that Ronaldo was seen undertaking a medical at SFC... and before you know it, it would be all over the press. Thats not how it works Micky. Journo's do research you know, they do not just sit listening to rumours. To state that a player has passed a medical and has been offered a contract comes from sources within the club who KNOW this stuff, not people making up rumours willy nilly or 'hearsay' as you call it! So my point does remain, that if the club have said (officially - directly or unofficially - leaked to the press who publish the story) that the deal is off due to him failing to get a WP and it transpires that this is not the case. I will feel that the club (officially - directly or unofficially - leaked to the press who publish the story) have not told the truth. I hope that clears this up. I am behind SFC, the team and the owner 100%, but having had to put up with lies and dishonesty for so long in the running of our club, surely I am entitled to be a little wary at first?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 if he had stayed at Brum, would they have had the same problem? Yes, because the WP is only valid for the period of the playing contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Well, the idiot brigade are certainly out in force on this thread. Edit: I posted this before seeing the post above. But the post above is the worst of all. These bloody Radhi Jaidis, they come over here and try to take our centre back jobs but can't due to work permit legislation, so they hang around the Bargate in their hoodies scaring the elderly and drinking Shakeaways or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 its disasterous - and laughable. hes one of the few immigrants who would actually be working amongs the millions of free loaders - give him a sodding work permit ffs I'd swap him for you, based on that load of nonsense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Or more likely from the FA, the player or the player's agent, or even the Home office for that matter, since it is an immigration issue. Plenty of sources, not just the club. Then there will not be an issue then if this is the case as it would have been a genuine reason if from one of these sources because they would not be privvy to the contract conversations. All im saying is that if it transpires that the club are saving face by saying it was a WP issue rather than the (possible) real reason which could be money, I will not be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I don't want to start a conspiracy theory here! It's possible I've been mis-informed as to the reason why Jaidi hadn't signed sooner. I wasn't made aware that obtaining a work permit would be an issue, more of a formality. Also, it was suggested that Jaidi was holding out for more money, but that doesn't appear to be the case, with Radhi having agreed to the contract on offer from the club. Unfortunately, it seems that the deal can't go through due to the work permit being rejected, but with his track record and experience, I'd like to think we could sign him after a successful appeal. Thanks for the clarification Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 CL, don't be an idiot. Of course that isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 He would not have had the same problem at Brum, renewing existing contracts is different to signing for a new club and requiring a new WP Anyone think perhaps he did ask for more wages, and a more generous deal was offered, he agreed, so the contract was all done, and THEN he was denied on the WP grounds? Thus no need for a stupid conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I'd be interested in the terms of Stern John's work permit. Surely he was in a similar boat (metaphorically of course) as RJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark`` Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It goes to show that the premier league teams with the money probably offer the government money in exchange for a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Hello, because that information has come from unofficial sources. Sources 'supposedly' ITK from outside the club. Sources in the media that are guessing to fill column inches. Sources that sit where you are now, guessing and speculating. SFC 'The Club' have told you (us) nothing officially about this player - they have not lied. Right so what you are essentially saying is that in theory this is no more than one big elaborate rumour? Deluded? I think you are yes. You are saying that all sources have come from outside the club? Yeah keep telling yourself that. In the real world that is not how it works. Someone from the club, be it the tea boy or Markus himself has spoken to someone which is how it has got out. How would we know a contract was offered if we had to rely on 'Fred' who is ITK as he walked passed the training ground and happened to see someone who he thought was Jaidi?! How would we know a medical was passed? This is things you can only really know if you are involved within the club and are privy to this information. I am not saying the 'club' have lied to me, see my posts. I am saying that this information has been obtained from the club and if found to be incorrect, would imply the club have ** fibbed. If you would like to insert the word 'indirectly' in between the stars to make you sleep better then feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It goes to show that the premier league teams with the money probably offer the government money in exchange for a permit. :smt107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 CL, don't be an idiot. Of course that isn't the case. Dont start Ponty, you of all people should know this is a 'forum' for discussions of opinions and thoughts. I was not the first person to mention this view point. Can you say with certainty that it is not the case? No, likewise, I am only speculating that this could be a saving face reason and am not saying "F and Jeff the club, they have lied to me, I hate them!". I am merely putting my thoughts across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It's a conspiracy,there are people who are hindering our progress.....they want us to fail and will do their best to make sure we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Micky please point out where I have said THE CLUB HAS LIED TO ME I have said I agreed with the post I quoted and that I am also starting to think that the club have said it's a work permit problem to save face. I then went onto say I would not be happy if this is a covering story. I did not say "I am not happy as this IS a covering story did I?" No they have not commented on it officially as I have previously stated, but someone at the club has spoken. Hearsay is different. Otherwise I could start a big rumour that Ronaldo was seen undertaking a medical at SFC... and before you know it, it would be all over the press. Thats not how it works Micky. Journo's do research you know, they do not just sit listening to rumours. To state that a player has passed a medical and has been offered a contract comes from sources within the club who KNOW this stuff, not people making up rumours willy nilly or 'hearsay' as you call it! So my point does remain, that if the club have said (officially - directly or unofficially - leaked to the press who publish the story) that the deal is off due to him failing to get a WP and it transpires that this is not the case. I will feel that the club (officially - directly or unofficially - leaked to the press who publish the story) have not told the truth. I hope that clears this up. I am behind SFC, the team and the owner 100%, but having had to put up with lies and dishonesty for so long in the running of our club, surely I am entitled to be a little wary at first?! You appear to be doing a very good impression of the preverbial Italian Tank. What your actually suggesting now is that everything that we read in the press is as a result of the club leaking information to them..! If there is anybody else who would like to subscribe to this bizarre theory then I'd be amazed. How many times have you read stories in the press that don't come true? Ill let you read your own words yourself, you wrote them, but you appear to want to distance yourself from them now - go on, have a gander. So you have not intimated at all here that you think the club is lying to you... no? Starting to think that is the case yeah' date=' but lying to the fans this early on is not good, especially if he signs for another club next week! We have had enough of false promises and smoke screens in the past. I was hoping the new regime would atleast give us honesty so I will not be happy if this is a covering story.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Baffled by this. Surely we would win any appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Obviously, the delay we were all wondering about is due to the work permit issue. It could be that the appeal has already been submitted because, if terms were already agreed (some were saying as early as Tuesday), it could be news of the problem has only just leaked now. It would explain why he is still training with us and why the club has said nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Baffled by this. Surely we would win any appeal. My missus deals with immigration issues and she says the law has been considerably tightened recently, to the extent that if something doesn't match the criteria, it's automatically rejected. It could be we were expecting it to be refused, as he doesn't meet the appearance criteria, and we now have to go down the Panel route to justify why he should still get a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Dont start Ponty, you of all people should know this is a 'forum' for discussions of opinions and thoughts. I was not the first person to mention this view point. Can you say with certainty that it is not the case? No, likewise, I am only speculating that this could be a saving face reason and am not saying "F and Jeff the club, they have lied to me, I hate them!". I am merely putting my thoughts across. I'm discussing the fact that your conspiracy theory is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 You appear to be doing a very good impression of the preverbial Italian Tank. What your actually suggesting now is that everything that we read in the press is as a result of the club leaking information to them..! If there is anybody else who would like to subscribe to this bizarre theory then I'd be amazed. How many times have you read stories in the press that don't come true? As opposed to you that thinks everything is made up on the spot randomly and nothing is leaked from the club right? I am fully aware that there is a percentage of 'news' which is made up yes, but equally, to suggest that the club dont leak anything is purely niave. Ill let you read your own words yourself, you wrote them, but you appear to want to distance yourself from them now - go on, have a gander. So you have not intimated at all here that you think the club is lying to you... no? I do not want to distance myself from them. I have said that if it transpires that someone from the club has said that it is a work permit issue and it transpires not to be this particular reason I will not be happy. Im ever so sorry Micky that you interpretted my post to be me saying I am annoyed the club have lied to me. I think the defining line in my point (and feel free to re-read this line several times) is "so I will not be happy if this is a covering story." I have made the relevant word bold for you to see clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Right so what you are essentially saying is that in theory this is no more than one big elaborate rumour? Deluded? I think you are yes. You are saying that all sources have come from outside the club? Yeah keep telling yourself that. In the real world that is not how it works. Someone from the club, be it the tea boy or Markus himself has spoken to someone which is how it has got out. How would we know a contract was offered if we had to rely on 'Fred' who is ITK as he walked passed the training ground and happened to see someone who he thought was Jaidi?! How would we know a medical was passed? This is things you can only really know if you are involved within the club and are privy to this information. I am not saying the 'club' have lied to me, see my posts. I am saying that this information has been obtained from the club and if found to be incorrect, would imply the club have ** fibbed. If you would like to insert the word 'indirectly' in between the stars to make you sleep better then feel free. And once again you spectacularly miss the point again...! Whether you really believe that your 3rd party information eminates from the club is irrelevant - the fact remains that it is not an official explanation. All that has happened here is that the player has been refused a work permit - we may yet appeal and win. So why not wait and see, give the club a chance to respond officially before you throw your conspiracy theories into the mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I don't see why everyone is worried, all he needs to do is fly to France and then re-enter England illegally through the Channel Tunnel, he will have not only a visa but a passport within in days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 CL, don't be an idiot. I'm discussing the fact that your conspiracy theory is idiotic. Clearly. Im not going to say something that will get me infracted. Baiting is for chidren Ponty, grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Clearly. Im not going to say something that will get me infracted. Baiting is for chidren Ponty, grow up. I'm not baiting you, CL. I sincerely believe you're being (at best) paranoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin C Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I think Pahars had is first attempt of a work permit turned down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I think Pahars had is first attempt of a work permit turned down He did, and it took a little while to sort it, but we were in the Prem then. I'm not sure we fulfill the criteria of "at the highest level" anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulSaint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Confused how our man is turned down & yet Niemi walks into a Pompey Shirt without playing for a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I don't see why everyone is worried, all he needs to do is fly to France and then re-enter England illegally through the Channel Tunnel, he will have not only a visa but a passport within in days. And a council house......only one problem though,getting past redknapp,he lurks around in Dover with a torch looking for the next big signing under a lorry......well he did for Pompey anyway:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Confused how our man is turned down & yet Niemi walks into a Pompey Shirt without playing for a year? He might have UK residency after living here so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I think Pahars had is first attempt of a work permit turned down He did, but his age and the fact that his country were only a new FIFA nation, at the time of his appeal, went for him. The rules have been tightened considerably in the last couple of years though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughnutman Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Confused how our man is turned down & yet Niemi walks into a Pompey Shirt without playing for a year? Anyone from the EU can work in Britain without the need for a work permit (i think?) and Finland are part of the EU so there wouldnt be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 we may yet appeal and win. So why not wait and see, give the club a chance to respond officially before you throw your conspiracy theories into the mix? Erm, I didnt 'throw this conspiracy into the mix' it was someone else and I commented on it. Besides, as this is a forum, it is used for people to discuss views, theories and thoughts. A side note of this is that not everyones views are the same. Evidently. Otherwise it would be a very dull place if we all agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Lol at you lot (again) Every damned National Paper has been running this "immigration is out of control" stuff for ages, making it much harder for people from outside the EU to stay in the country even IF they have vaild reasons to be there in terms of work or marriage. The same "public opinion" cheers the spin from the Government when they announce they are tightening the rules (causing problems for MANY genuine immigrants) and then Whoosh - didn't see that one coming relax, he will get in on appeal, he is an experienced International Captain being brought into the club to help with the footballing development of our Academy kids by bringing leadership skills and reliability. He'll walk the appeal process. Having him for Saturday is irrelevant, it's our first game of a new season AND it's on Sky, we all know what the result will be in reality, we were just hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Confused how our man is turned down & yet Niemi walks into a Pompey Shirt without playing for a year? Finland are in the EU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 (edited) As opposed to you that thinks everything is made up on the spot randomly and nothing is leaked from the club right? I am fully aware that there is a percentage of 'news' which is made up yes, but equally, to suggest that the club dont leak anything is purely niave. I do not want to distance myself from them. I have said that if it transpires that someone from the club has said that it is a work permit issue and it transpires not to be this particular reason I will not be happy. Im ever so sorry Micky that you interpretted my post to be me saying I am annoyed the club have lied to me. I think the defining line in my point (and feel free to re-read this line several times) is "so I will not be happy if this is a covering story." I have made the relevant word bold for you to see clearer. Yeah, very good - I note that you didn't quote the complete post and you only have one relevant word...! Surely not trying to distance yourself from your words are you? Starting to think that is the case yeah' date=' [b']but lying to the fans this early on is not good,[/b] especially if he signs for another club next week! We have had enough of false promises and smoke screens in the past. I was hoping the new regime would atleast give us honesty so I will not be happy if this is a covering story. Tell you what - I'll help you out with a few relevant words from your post, perhaps then you might see why I (and others) thought that you suspected some sort of conspiracy theory, as opposed to a simple case of a work permit problem. Edited 6 August, 2009 by Micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It goes to show that the premier league teams with the money probably offer the government money in exchange for a permit. I agree with this whole heartedly and believe it to be one of the most pertinent, sensible comments I have ever seen on this message board. And that says a lot because there are many, many sensible points being made on this thread. I fully back people who believe that RJ should be given a work permit because he probably works harder than most lazy immigrants. And I'm not even racist. If it turns out that we have lost out on the best signing this club would have made since KK because we couldn't be bothered to pay him another £100 a week then I will be furious! We may have a new leader but it seems the penny pinching and lying is exactly the same! I am with Crouchie's Lawyer on this one. I'm not delusional or mental, I'm just a non racist cynic who can no longer trust people as a result of all what has been done to me in the past. All the bad stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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