The Thoughts of Chairman Wilde .

[Wes Tender]

Thanks for backing my assertion that players leaving for the Premier League is due to the financial malaise in the football World. So why do you think RL should be able to solve it if no one else can. But there again it's easier to have someone to blame than try to understand the problems in keeping players.

 

As for being taken over by people with serious sums of money available to keep the banks and creditors off our back it might have escaped your notice but we lost £5M last season despite selling £16.5M of players. That's a loss of £21.5M on the season. So if we could persuade someone with £21.5M to "invest" we could buy back all our mercenaries and and enjoy another wonderful season like last year.

 

I didn't back your assertion that players leaving for the Premier league is due to the financial malaise in the football World. That was your slant on things. The players leave for selfish reasons wishing to earn as much money as they can in a short playing career and if there is a situation of supply and demand that dictates that this situation exists, I can't say that I blame them for grabbing the opportunity.

 

Did I think that Lowe could resolve the situation? I don't think that I suggested that, only that he has no real alternative to the path he's chosen.

 

As for those who might take us over, these people can afford to gamble on the possibility of financing losses of the order you mention in the hope that they succeed in getting us to the Premiership which would bring a return of revenue far outweighing the expenditure of getting there. That is something that the current incumbents cannot afford to countenance.

[Wes Tender]

Thanks for backing my assertion that players leaving for the Premier League is due to the financial malaise in the football World. So why do you think RL should be able to solve it if no one else can. But there again it's easier to have someone to blame than try to understand the problems in keeping players.

 

As for being taken over by people with serious sums of money available to keep the banks and creditors off our back it might have escaped your notice but we lost £5M last season despite selling £16.5M of players. That's a loss of £21.5M on the season. So if we could persuade someone with £21.5M to "invest" we could buy back all our mercenaries and and enjoy another wonderful season like last year.

 

I didn't back your assertion that players leaving for the Premier league is due to the financial malaise in the football World. That was your slant on things. The players leave for selfish reasons wishing to earn as much money as they can in a short playing career and if there is a situation of supply and demand that dictates that this situation exists, I can't say that I blame them for grabbing the opportunity.

 

Did I think that Lowe could resolve the situation? I don't think that I suggested that, only that he has no real alternative to the path he's chosen.

 

As for those who might take us over, these people can afford to gamble on the possibility of financing losses of the order you mention in the hope that they succeed in getting us to the Premiership which would bring a return of revenue far outweighing the expenditure of getting there. That is something that the current incumbents cannot afford to countenance.

[Professor]

.....I really can't see how he can say we are in a position to compete for promotion, while at the same time he is saying that the only way to survive in this league is to sell our best young players. How does that work ?

Not what he said. The quote is:- "...we are making every effort to ensure that this does not become necessary by making all appropriate cost savings we can. However, because it is always a possibility, it is important that we continue to identify and develop young talent at this club so that the impact of such an eventuality on the quality of the squad can be minimised. Unfortunately, owing to the financial imbalances that exist within the football industry, this is likely to remain the situation until such time that promotion back to the Premiership can be secured."

 

This says that sales will only be made if the balance of income v expenditure makes it necessary and that expenditure has been cut which reduces the need to sell (hence the Surman / Lallana examples he gave). The future cannot be predicted because it depends upon a number of variables, including attendances and league position, that cannot be known now.

[Professor]

.....I really can't see how he can say we are in a position to compete for promotion, while at the same time he is saying that the only way to survive in this league is to sell our best young players. How does that work ?

Not what he said. The quote is:- "...we are making every effort to ensure that this does not become necessary by making all appropriate cost savings we can. However, because it is always a possibility, it is important that we continue to identify and develop young talent at this club so that the impact of such an eventuality on the quality of the squad can be minimised. Unfortunately, owing to the financial imbalances that exist within the football industry, this is likely to remain the situation until such time that promotion back to the Premiership can be secured."

 

This says that sales will only be made if the balance of income v expenditure makes it necessary and that expenditure has been cut which reduces the need to sell (hence the Surman / Lallana examples he gave). The future cannot be predicted because it depends upon a number of variables, including attendances and league position, that cannot be known now.

[um pahars]

This says that sales will only be made if the balance of income v expenditure makes it necessary and that expenditure has been cut which reduces the need to sell (hence the Surman / Lallana examples he gave). The future cannot be predicted because it depends upon a number of variables, including attendances and league position, that cannot be known now.

 

Au contraire, he is quite clear that we cannot wash our face in this division and will need to rely on the sale of players to make ends meet

 

The following quote clearly outlines this:

 

In my mind, it is virtually impossible for any significantly sized club with a modern stadium to survive outside the Premiership on normal operational revenue streams, irrespective of how well they are run – certainly if they are to remain competitive at this level.

Player trading is a vital revenue stream for any club in this position.

[Weston Saint]

Au contraire, he is quite clear that we cannot wash our face in this division and will need to rely on the sale of players to make ends meet

 

The following quote clearly outlines this:

 

In my mind, it is virtually impossible for any significantly sized club with a modern stadium to survive outside the Premiership on normal operational revenue streams, irrespective of how well they are run – certainly if they are to remain competitive at this level.

Player trading is a vital revenue stream for any club in this position.

 

There's the rub

[Faz]

This says that sales will only be made if the balance of income v expenditure makes it necessary and that expenditure has been cut which reduces the need to sell (hence the Surman / Lallana examples he gave). The future cannot be predicted because it depends upon a number of variables, including attendances and league position, that cannot be known now.

 

Au contraire, he is quite clear that we cannot wash our face in this division and will need to rely on the sale of players to make ends meet

 

The following quote clearly outlines this:

 

In my mind, it is virtually impossible for any significantly sized club with a modern stadium to survive outside the Premiership on normal operational revenue streams, irrespective of how well they are run – certainly if they are to remain competitive at this level.

Player trading is a vital revenue stream for any club in this position.

 

You're both right, and so is MW.

 

HTH

[NickG]

sorry if its here, but has anyone posted the details of the second double page article with further questions?

He talks about timescales for promotion etc -think it was play off this year but main target is premiership within 3.

If no-one has detailed it and its not on echo site I can summarise it later.

[dubai_phil]

sorry if its here, but has anyone posted the details of the second double page article with further questions?

He talks about timescales for promotion etc -think it was play off this year but main target is premiership within 3.

If no-one has detailed it and its not on echo site I can summarise it later.

 

Oh that works.

 

Pre-released questions sorted and filtered. Pre-released answers sorted and filtered, then a precis delivered by a fan (although a long term poster) which can then lead to great amounts of debate and argument and hardening of positions. On an interpretation.

 

Nice idea Nick, but would just not be worth wasting the time. Let's wait for the Echo to wake up to the fact that not EVERY Saints fan lives in Southampton these days and relies on their web site for things like this

:-)

[NickG]

ok wont bother!

[dubai_phil]

ok wont bother!

 

:-)

 

Oh don't get all upset, but you see the problem, the pro's will read your reading and you end up the person to blame:-))))

[RinNY]

Slickmick

 

 

 

 

 

RinNY, your reply does not fully take account of the implications of the Quisling's suggestion that we are in a position to fight for promotion and yet the only way to survive is to sell players. Granted that if there are signs that we are to be promoted, there will be incentive for players to stay here provided that it is made clear to them that once in the Premiership they will receive pay at a level average to their colleagues there. They may well be happy to stay here on a bit less than the going rate outside of the big clubs because they are settled in this area and have family here.

 

But the fly in the ointment is the January window. If there is clear interest in any player at that time from a Premiership club, it is too early for the player to assess the probability of whether we will definitely achieve promotion and the temptation to play in the top league at vastly increased wage levels would prove too much for most youngsters.

 

On that basis which is a real possibility, it would be difficult to sustain a policy of keeping a squad together who could show enough promise to gain promotion. My feeling is that any monies gained from the sale of the better youngsters will mostly go to debt repayment and on that basis replacements of those players either from the academy or from cheap purchases elsewhere are likely not to be as good as what we have sold.

 

 

The January transfer window is a problem for all clubs low on money, that is, all clubs outside the Prem and a few that are in it. If you can't afford to buy, and can't afford to resist good offers for your best players, your squad can be damaged and your plans upset during January: that is a fact that 95% of football teams in England have to live with. Makes no sense to criticise anyone connected with Saints for that, at this point.

 

However, it is also very clear that under the current regime, Saints will continue to maintain investment in the Academy unless it becomes totally impossible, i.e. unless we have to go into administration. Why? Because that is where our team is coming from, and where a major part of our revenue stream is projected to come from. Without the money from selling the likes of Walcott, Bale, and Baird we wouldn't be fiscally afloat right now.

 

As to promotion, there are and can be no guarantees. When we still had part of our Premiership squad, we spent 7 million trying to create a promotion winning side, and we just missed out due to the absurdity of the "away goals count double" rule not applying for Championship playoffs, and the luck of the penalty shoot-out going against us. There it is. We are now trying the route of building a young and hungry side. There are risks. Big offers for our young players will harm us on the football side if they come, at the same time as they help us on the fiscal side. That's our reality. That doesn't mean you don't continue to aim for promotion, and hope that the squad you are building can build up enough momentum, stay together long enough, and be deep enough, to make it happen, even if you do have to sell a player or two along the way.

 

I'm just saying that what Wilde said makes sense and reflects accurately our current state. Whether you like or dislike, trust or distrust Wilde and/or Lowe is in this case irrelevant to the points being made about the club's situation and policy.

[up and away]

The January transfer window is a problem for all clubs low on money, that is, all clubs outside the Prem and a few that are in it. If you can't afford to buy, and can't afford to resist good offers for your best players, your squad can be damaged and your plans upset during January: that is a fact that 95% of football teams in England have to live with. Makes no sense to criticise anyone connected with Saints for that, at this point.

 

However, it is also very clear that under the current regime, Saints will continue to maintain investment in the Academy unless it becomes totally impossible, i.e. unless we have to go into administration. Why? Because that is where our team is coming from, and where a major part of our revenue stream is projected to come from. Without the money from selling the likes of Walcott, Bale, and Baird we wouldn't be fiscally afloat right now.

 

As to promotion, there are and can be no guarantees. When we still had part of our Premiership squad, we spent 7 million trying to create a promotion winning side, and we just missed out due to the absurdity of the "away goals count double" rule not applying for Championship playoffs, and the luck of the penalty shoot-out going against us. There it is. We are now trying the route of building a young and hungry side. There are risks. Big offers for our young players will harm us on the football side if they come, at the same time as they help us on the fiscal side. That's our reality. That doesn't mean you don't continue to aim for promotion, and hope that the squad you are building can build up enough momentum, stay together long enough, and be deep enough, to make it happen, even if you do have to sell a player or two along the way.

 

I'm just saying that what Wilde said makes sense and reflects accurately our current state. Whether you like or dislike, trust or distrust Wilde and/or Lowe is in this case irrelevant to the points being made about the club's situation and policy.

 

Very true. We are subject to financial forces and have very limited options open to us. We have effectively bought ourselves to the brink of administration and we now have only one path left to us. Because of the failure to move on enough high earners and gain capital from fees, I doubt if we are at the stage of refusing mediocre offers for our good players come January, but hopefully soon we shall be.

 

This encapsulates exactly our current position "I'm just saying that what Wilde said makes sense and reflects accurately our current state. Whether you like or dislike, trust or distrust Wilde and/or Lowe is in this case irrelevant to the points being made about the club's situation and policy."

 

Where as previous we were betting everything on a single roulette number, but with the odds associated with either red or black.

[Wes Tender]

The January transfer window is a problem for all clubs low on money, that is, all clubs outside the Prem and a few that are in it. If you can't afford to buy, and can't afford to resist good offers for your best players, your squad can be damaged and your plans upset during January: that is a fact that 95% of football teams in England have to live with. Makes no sense to criticise anyone connected with Saints for that, at this point.

 

However, it is also very clear that under the current regime, Saints will continue to maintain investment in the Academy unless it becomes totally impossible, i.e. unless we have to go into administration. Why? Because that is where our team is coming from, and where a major part of our revenue stream is projected to come from. Without the money from selling the likes of Walcott, Bale, and Baird we wouldn't be fiscally afloat right now.

 

As to promotion, there are and can be no guarantees. When we still had part of our Premiership squad, we spent 7 million trying to create a promotion winning side, and we just missed out due to the absurdity of the "away goals count double" rule not applying for Championship playoffs, and the luck of the penalty shoot-out going against us. There it is. We are now trying the route of building a young and hungry side. There are risks. Big offers for our young players will harm us on the football side if they come, at the same time as they help us on the fiscal side. That's our reality. That doesn't mean you don't continue to aim for promotion, and hope that the squad you are building can build up enough momentum, stay together long enough, and be deep enough, to make it happen, even if you do have to sell a player or two along the way.

 

I'm just saying that what Wilde said makes sense and reflects accurately our current state. Whether you like or dislike, trust or distrust Wilde and/or Lowe is in this case irrelevant to the points being made about the club's situation and policy.

 

I agree with mostly everything you say except for the last paragraph.

 

The real fly in the ointment is indeed the January transfer window and as you and I both agree any player who shines from the start of the season until then is likely to attract attention and being in the precarious financial position we are, we are not realistically able to refuse any reasonable offer. 95% of the clubs might be in this situation, but as it is widely known that we are deep in the financial sh*t, we have a weaker hand then most.

 

Yes, we can continue using the Academy as a feeder to our first team, but inevitably there will come a time when if too many of the cream are bought, there will not be enough ready quality to introduce. In any event, players leaving or coming in on loan is a destabising thing at a crucial stage of the season. It may not happen, but it should be something that we are aware of.

 

As for the last paragraph, there is little else he could have said, as the board are painted into a corner and this is the only route available to them. They have no other options other than selling if anybody wants to buy, or administration.