INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Fry's obligation was never to the fans, only to the current creditors. Any future creditors become SEP (somebody else's problem). Of course, however, he failed them when he accepted LC's money for exclusivity(so called honorary member of the bid or not), would Dias or his solicitor have notified Fry of his withdrawal ? Would be interesting to know the circumstances in which LC was asked for the deposit, you know, "lend us this Leon we are a bit short at the minute" ?? if it were me it would have sent, if they still had some battery life left, alarm bells ringing, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicMan Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 FF, Good post, nice to see that someone is brave enough to tackle this subject. I don’t know how much you know about this but by your post I would think that you know a lot more of the more disturbing things that went on / were planed. Please keep digging and fighting to release the truth. I wish I could help you but it would not be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 The only question is how close were the Swiss behind the Pinnacle bid. 2 Hours, if we are to believe earlier posts and consider ML has publically stated he was convinced in May to invest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I wish I could help you but it would not be a good idea. Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 (edited) It would be interesting to see if TL responds to Duncan's excellent post. Of course there are usually two sides to every story but nothing that has been said really suggests that the Lynam and Co were trying to make some money and their bid failed because of lack of capital which happens a great deal in similar situations. ML with all his wealth did not have that problem. So the original question genuine or bogus does not seem to be answered The person alledgedly involved with introducing ML to SFC and who is now COO was involved with the club two years ago when we were looking for investment it is a shame he did not contact ML then. Edited 2 August, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Excellent revelations Duncan. Maybe those who doubted you and were less than kind in judging you will now realise that, whilst ITK, you maintained that dignity and discretion which enable people to confide in you? I guessed we were up to our necks in it, just didn't realise how close to the edge of the abyss we were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 An excellent post FF...assuming it is all factual of course, which I strongly suspect it is. Crouch indeed should be honoured for his unselfish and generous contribution to Saints future - if it were not for him I suspect we would not have a club now. A true Saint if ever there were one. One last point. IMO just because we are clearly fortunate to have been saved by Markus and Co., does not dilute the fact that they have a duty to the clubs supporters to provide the adequate resources to make the club successful. Otherwise, what has been learnt or improved from the Lowe era? Nobody is expecting Kaka and Rooney, but we are expecting better than what we have had. And so is AP. It is essential to do this to (a) stop a further relegation (b) at least try to have a decent season and win some games. This league is as difficult to get out of as the CCC and there are some peeps on this forum that seem to think we'll breeze it with the present squad - but we will not....ask Leeds fans about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morph Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Thank you Duncan for putting this out there. I can only say that their are honourable people out there and I hope that we have at last found one in Mr Liebherr. I believe we have. Kind Regards Morph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 But it is quite true what the poster is saying. Crouch appears to have a big heart but does not do the the right thing all the time Maybe not but at least he did hang around after the sh1t hit the fan and put his hand in his pocket to help save the club. Did any of the other "players" in the tragedy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin C Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 A very good post. I wonder if it all will ever come out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven on the wing Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I feel sorry for Leon as he no doubt has always had Saints at his heart, but he could have inadvertently sent us to the wall. I dont suppose he will gain even a freeby ticket from the current regime as he was instumental in them dipping out first time of asking ! With his business experience you would have expected LC at least, to not take people at face value, and MLT was just used to give pinnacle a leg up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Bizarre response. His money paid May's (or was it June?) wages. My question is; if he hadn't stepped up to the plate would the Swiss have come in and done the same? No one will ever really know. There was nothing stopping the Swiss buying the club when Crouch stepped in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Interesting read - thanks for posting. As soon as the ''Friday'' announcement was delayed on the last day of exclusivity i just knew it was a sham. How they managed to drag it out a further week is beyond me. Believe me - we have had an enormous escape here. Can you clarify this Duncan...i heard that the reason Pinnacle were blaming the FL, was because the FL wanted to hit us with more points deductions - because Pinnacle hadn't correctly signed off the debts with the creditors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 There was nothing stopping the Swiss buying the club when Crouch stepped in. yes there was.. pinnacle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Let's suppose the answer to FF's original question is 'bogus' - in the sense that Pinnacle were merely trying to grab the club at a bargain-basement price and then flog it off to the nearest buyer. If that were actually true, why did it seem that theirs was the highest bid? If you're really going to do this, wouldn't you want to buy low and sell high? One suspicion is that Lynam might have been in it for the long haul but his backers - such as they were - had very different ideas. And they baulked at the price Lynam had agreed with Fry because they saw it eating into their profit margin in the ensuing quick sale. For all those whining about how we haven't rebuilt the team in the last five minutes, just imagine what it would have been like had Pinnacle succeeded. (Not to mention the ruin of MLT's reputation). Someone - whether it was Lynam or his secretive backers - was prepared to slash-and-burn this club for a quick buck, no matter who got hurt. We certainly wouldn't be buying players, and would by now surely lost a lot more. We had a lucky escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 There was nothing stopping the Swiss buying the club when Crouch stepped in. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exclusivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 yes there was.. pinnacle That was after he stumped up the cash, the Swiss were free to buy the club before the exclusivity but chose not to. Maybe the Pinnacle mess lowered the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I am guessing however that if MLt had not been used to lend his name to the bid - It would never have got as far as it did MLT was not "Used", he joined in the project, but it seems reasonable to assume he was taken in as well. Its probably just as well he didn't get the role of club chairman though, as Matt's skills on the football field may not be reflected in his management or business skills. No blame to him for that, but it does show that no one should assume that a football legend is automatically reliable at everything else. I expect Matt is more disappointed than the rest of us, as the vision of chairing his beloved club, and having it melt away, must be very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 (edited) I have two focus points for my anger about all this. Pinnacle for what seems to be their lying and scheming which took not only decent, good guys (like MLT) but decent, well intentioned businessmen (like LC) and the fans for a ride. Myself, despite all my recently found cynicsm, for falling for all their bollickx. I so wanted us safe and that clouded my instincts. Thank the Lord that ML & Co were quick enough after all that crap to clear things up. No wonder they are miffed at Lienam and Co! That aahsole took MLT and their friendship to a new meaning. Edited 2 August, 2009 by EastleighSoulBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musesaint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season. Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome. I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses". It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on. It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth. The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up. Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible. I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement. We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either). As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut. Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months! Excellent post. I had exactly this arguement with another Saints fan whilst away on holiday when the Pinnacle deal was still live. IMHO they never had the money and were "chancers". They very nearly destroyed the club by playing a game backed with blanks. The two people who lost most in this saga were Leon Crouch who ended up saving the club at the point of catastrophe and MLT who was drawn into the hype. I still hope we might make the play-offs... but yes the saga has probably cost us a season's progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 It looks as if Saints may have had two giant off-the-field slices of luck in the last 15 years, although we may not necessarily have realised it at the time, believing it to be catastrophic: 1 Stoneham falling through 2 Pinnacle falling through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Interesting post Duncan. Thank God for Markus Liebherr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 IMHO ... it was a deliberate Scam ..... and nothing will ever convince me otherwise .....How the hell did they "con" exclusivity out of Fry ???? A young front man with £2.50 in Northern Rock, and a Glove Puppet giving "Day to Day" updates ....... "yeah we're gonna do the deal today" etc etc ....PITIFUL GET YOUR HEAD AROUND THIS ..... had not The Swiss retained an interest in SFC ..... it was odds on that we stood a good chance of being liquidated ..... and for that fact alone, I hold "Pinnacle" in complete and utter contempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 It looks as if Saints may have had two giant off-the-field slices of luck in the last 15 years, although we may not necessarily have realised it at the time, believing it to be catastrophic: 1 Stoneham falling through 2 Pinnacle falling through Why denounce Stoneham ??? .... easy access to Trains, Flights, and Roads ... plus being a multi-complex ..... would have ensured other types of Yearly Income other than Football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Interesting read - thanks for posting. As soon as the ''Friday'' announcement was delayed on the last day of exclusivity i just knew it was a sham. How they managed to drag it out a further week is beyond me. Believe me - we have had an enormous escape here. Can you clarify this Duncan...i heard that the reason Pinnacle were blaming the FL, was because the FL wanted to hit us with more points deductions - because Pinnacle hadn't correctly signed off the debts with the creditors? I think the whole "FL point deduction legal challenge" was Pinnacle buying time/looking for an exit excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Leveraged Debt is an interesting subject line to follow. In TL's line of business (financial) commercial lending at present is a) Difficult to obtain; b) Large commission is there to be earned. Getting involved would have been a gamble, but if paid off just may have paid handsomely. Would love to hear TL's side of events, but I'm sure he's been advised to keep quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Leveraged Debt is an interesting subject line to follow. In TL's line of business (financial) commercial lending at present is a) Difficult to obtain; b) Large commission is there to be earned. Getting involved would have been a gamble, but if paid off just may have paid handsomely. Would love to hear TL's side of events, but I'm sure he's been advised to keep quiet. I think that Lienam probably realises that he's 'personna non grata' around here right now and values his teeth. To be quite frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season. Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome. I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses". It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on. It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth. The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up. Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible. I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement. We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either). As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut. Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months! I used to respect your opinion, but now you seem to be struggling with an obsession. Good luck with your internal struggle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 None of this surprises me - the warning signs were all there right from the word go - amateurish in/out stuff at the start, using a nobody front group with a 50 quid website, refusing to detail anything about the plans, backers or bid in any shape and sloppy execution with the weeks of "will they won't they" prior to exclusivity. All this was there, and the smart people on this forum questioned it and were shot down by the chav majority. My only surprise is why this is a surprise to so many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 (edited) It looks like we had a lucky escape. Interestingly John, Mike told me about halfway through the exclusivity, that he had heard that they were looking to get out and that they were trying to arrange for the Swiss to buy it after they completed. Edited 2 August, 2009 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I used to respect your opinion, but now you seem to be struggling with an obsession. Good luck with your internal struggle.... Says the man who obsessed about Rupert Lowe for years and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Says the man who obsessed about Rupert Lowe for years and years. But my struggle is now over. So I can empathise. FF can wring his hands and bellyache as much as he wants about how close we came to oblivion, whilst most of us can view it as the footnote of the end of the worst period in the clubs history, look forward and move on. FF can bleat that this season is going to be wasted because of the delays over the summer, whilst most of us can be reassured that this season isnt going to be the last and that a plan exists for the long-term future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 But my struggle is now over. So I can empathise. FF can wring his hands and bellyache as much as he wants about how close we came to oblivion, whilst most of us can view it as the footnote of the end of the worst period in the clubs history, look forward and move on. FF can bleat that this season is going to be wasted because of the delays over the summer, whilst most of us can be reassured that this season isnt going to be the last and that a plan exists for the long-term future. I think that FF has posted because he wants us to realise how close we came and in response to some on here who derided his behind the scenes knowledge. When you are held in the same respect as FF generally is on here then maybe you could come on here and add something of value. Until then why don't you stop for a while and try to compose something which is both constructive and informative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestSaint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I believe that there was also discussion that Crouch funded the Ajax friendly as well. Would he have received his money back from receipts for this game as the match was held when the Swiss had taken over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I think that FF has posted because he wants us to realise how close we came and in response to some on here who derided his behind the scenes knowledge. When you are held in the same respect as FF generally is on here then maybe you could come on here and add something of value. Until then why don't you stop for a while and try to compose something which is both constructive and informative? I think looking forwards and not dwelling on the past is entirely constructive. I think dwelling in the past is very, very negative. also, this club has had enough damage done by all the ITK bullsh*t. And I think pointing this out is an informative action. So I dont see your point whatsoever. The Pinnacle story is known and is history. Its about time it were left there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Duncan, do you believe that it will ever become public knowledge who was really behind the Pinnacle debacle? One could be forgiven for coming to the conclusion that it was an almost the perfect assasination of a football club and it's supporters and townsfolk. What could possibly drive someone to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 It's a double edged sword with Crouch. Whilst his money undoubtedly saved the club, several of his actions also put it in real jeopardy. Nod and a wink and Lowes history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 2 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Duncan, do you believe that it will ever become public knowledge who was really behind the Pinnacle debacle? One could be forgiven for coming to the conclusion that it was an almost the perfect assasination of a football club and it's supporters and townsfolk. What could possibly drive someone to do this? Well like I say I know the 6 names on the original paperwork submitted by Lynam to Fry but I think by the close of play only MLT, TL and this mysterious Bill Allen were still involved. However I think while the motive of Matt was borne out of a love odf the club and a desire to help in any way I think the motives of Allen and Lynam to be more questionable. To give lynam the benefit of the doubt as the middleman I would say it was the chance of making a quick buck was the main reason the whole Pinnacle thing got off the ground in the first place. I don't think it was politically motivated if that's what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Duncan, do you believe that it will ever become public knowledge who was really behind the Pinnacle debacle? One could be forgiven for coming to the conclusion that it was an almost the perfect assasination of a football club and it's supporters and townsfolk. What could possibly drive someone to do this? ..... Beats me .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildgoose Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Well, I think I'm just glad and relieved that we seem to have the right owner in place now. Looking forward to a steady, if not necessarily spectacular, rebuilding of the club we love. I don't care if it's not instant success, just happy to be along for the ride. Here's to the future! PS Thanks for the info re Pinnacle, it does seem to make sense of what happened when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I think that FF has posted because he wants us to realise how close we came and in response to some on here who derided his behind the scenes knowledge. When you are held in the same respect as FF generally is on here then maybe you could come on here and add something of value. Until then why don't you stop for a while and try to compose something which is both constructive and informative? Say's.................. EastleighSoulBoy Full Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eastleigh Posts: 4,325 Quote: Originally Posted by Channon's Sideburns Leveraged Debt is an interesting subject line to follow. In TL's line of business (financial) commercial lending at present is a) Difficult to obtain; b) Large commission is there to be earned. Getting involved would have been a gamble, but if paid off just may have paid handsomely. Would love to hear TL's side of events, but I'm sure he's been advised to keep quiet. I think that Lienam probably realises that he's 'personna non grata' around here right now and values his teeth. To be quite frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_mears Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Pinnacle just sound the same as that spiv from bournemouth claiming to be a Saints fan and selling photocopiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I think looking forwards and not dwelling on the past is entirely constructive. I think dwelling in the past is very, very negative. also, this club has had enough damage done by all the ITK bullsh*t. And I think pointing this out is an informative action. So I dont see your point whatsoever. The Pinnacle story is known and is history. Its about time it were left there. The Pinnacle story is relatively unknown by most of us. For you to go on about dwelling in the past is also rather contradictory considering your history of postings about certain people at the club. Surely we need the history to learn our lessons? Otherwise how do we improve how things happen in the future? The very fact that the team is going to struggle this coming season is indicative of the impact that the Pinnacle debacle has had on the club. It's worth us knowing undr the circumstances who is to blame. Your opinion seems to offer two ways of doing something, the Alpine Way or the wrong way. When, in my experience, there are many other ways of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 Of course there are usually two sides to every story but nothing that has been said really suggests that the Lynam and Co were trying to make some money and their bid failed because of lack of capital which happens a great deal in similar situations. ML with all his wealth did not have that problem. So the original question genuine or bogus does not seem to be answered The person alledgedly involved with introducing ML to SFC and who is now CO was involved with the club two years ago when we were looking for investment it is a shame he did not contact ML then. He may well have done, but at that time we would not have been a good nvestment, £15M to buy Rupert et al.. out of the club, and a bucket load of debt for the stadium, probably costing him best part of 40M which is 3.5 times what he probably paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 I don't think it was politically motivated if that's what you mean. Dunacn, I was thinking more... http://www.answers.com/malice%20aforethought I am happy with the current state of the club, transfers, current depleted squad and all. We have a future and the most important games are ahead of us. For those saying 'move on', I really don't thtink it is wrong to rake over the coals to find the source of the fire now thta the smoke is clearing, I think it is called 'forensic fire investigation'. I also don't believe that it will be found to have been a faulty fuse. Someone had/has it in for us and we need to keep our guard up. I feel that the near tragedy was written by a brilliant mind, and a brilliant mind can be a dangerous thing. all imvho of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 The Pinnacle story is relatively unknown by most of us. For you to go on about dwelling in the past is also rather contradictory considering your history of postings about certain people at the club. Surely we need the history to learn our lessons? Otherwise how do we improve how things happen in the future? The very fact that the team is going to struggle this coming season is indicative of the impact that the Pinnacle debacle has had on the club. It's worth us knowing undr the circumstances who is to blame. Your opinion seems to offer two ways of doing something, the Alpine Way or the wrong way. When, in my experience, there are many other ways of doing things. There has been a COMPLETE break with the last 5 years history of failure and incompetence at the club - we are no longer a plc. For this reason, I have completely wiped the slate clean, and I am surprised others like you and FF havent. Tell me, what are you achieving, actually, by banging on about this. Come on, really, enlighten us. You said "It's worth us knowing undr the circumstances who is to blame." Really ? How does that help ? ML, AO, NC and AP have a helluva task sorting the mess at this club out. It is clear it is going to take YEARS. Compared to that, three weeks of delusional f**k-about by Pinnacle seems like chicken-sh*t. I'm fine with that, why arent you and FF ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 There has been a COMPLETE break with the last 5 years history of failure and incompetence at the club - we are no longer a plc. For this reason, I have completely wiped the slate clean, and I am surprised others like you and FF havent. Tell me, what are you achieving, actually, by banging on about this. Come on, really, enlighten us. You said "It's worth us knowing undr the circumstances who is to blame." Really ? How does that help ? ML, AO, NC and AP have a helluva task sorting the mess at this club out. It is clear it is going to take YEARS. Compared to that, three weeks of delusional f**k-about by Pinnacle seems like chicken-sh*t. I'm fine with that, why arent you and FF ??? So you make a clean break and everyone else is supposed to follow suit. As I said, there's two ways to do things. The Alpine Way or the wrong way. Doesn't it interest you what actually happened? Or why it happened? Are you not angry that many fans, maybe not yourself, are peeved at what happened? Of course the new management team have an uphill struggle, directly down to the Pinnacle mullarkey in my opinion. I'd still love to know why it all nearly went belly up. Just because I don't think or react the same way as you doesn't make me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 So you make a clean break and everyone else is supposed to follow suit. As I said, there's two ways to do things. The Alpine Way or the wrong way. Doesn't it interest you what actually happened? Or why it happened? Are you not angry that many fans, maybe not yourself, are peeved at what happened? Of course the new management team have an uphill struggle, directly down to the Pinnacle mullarkey in my opinion. I'd still love to know why it all nearly went belly up. Just because I don't think or react the same way as you doesn't make me wrong. So the reason the new management team have an uphill struggle has nowt to do with 5 years association with Rupert Lowe, Mike Wilde, Leon Crouch, Jan Poortvillet, George Burley, hell, even Guy Askham; its actually all to do with 3 weeks talking to big, bad evil Pinnacle... Riiight.... You can have your opinion for the sake of it if you wish - it doesnt stop it being completel b*ll*cks, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 So the reason the new management team have an uphill struggle has nowt to do with 5 years association with Rupert Lowe, Mike Wilde, Leon Crouch, Jan Poortvillet, George Burley, hell, even Guy Askham; its actually all to do with 3 weeks talking to big, bad evil Pinnacle... Riiight.... You can have your opinion for the sake of it if you wish - it doesnt stop it being completel b*ll*cks, however. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (*to the sound of gunfire*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 2 August, 2009 Share Posted 2 August, 2009 The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (*to the sound of gunfire*) Sorry, but the direction this site is going in simply because of the absence of real things to mewl and puke about is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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