Stern John to Palace part 2

[L1Minus10]

This is the kind of thread that makes me want to pack up reading this site...

[sotonjoe]

don't agree Nick - ML owns the stadium - there is a difference.

But SFC's only current significant overheads will be wages and upkeep of their property which compared to last season when we had an overdraft and a mortgage to service makes our position with or without ML far superior.

 

I do think some on here are struggling to get their heads around the private ownership malarkey. If and when ML opens his purse it will be interesting if it is in the form of a loan or an investment with no repayment.

 

 

I thought the investment issue was cleared in the Echo Cortese interview; ML will not be expecting Saints to repay him for any investment.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'd be quite happy if Stern John joins another club as he is lazy, I'd prefer Rasiak but expect him to go.

 

You say you'd be happy to see Stern John leave because he's 'lazy' and then you say you rate Rasiak !

 

"It's logic Jim , but not as we know it"

[Winnersaint]

This is the kind of thread that makes me want to pack up reading this site...

Post of the day. Couldn't agree more. Fecking conspiracy theorists. Next thing you know they'll me telling me, man didn't land on the moon. I know they did. We watched it in the hall at North Baddesley Junior School instead of lessons.

[Toomer]

From what I have been told this evening is that Stern is not 100% happy with the terms of the contract that is on offer and has only been offered a trial at Palace.

[Over land and sea]

Post of the day. Couldn't agree more. Fecking conspiracy theorists. Next thing you know they'll me telling me, man didn't land on the moon. I know they did. We watched it in the hall at North Baddesley Junior School instead of lessons.

 

They landed on the moon in the middle of the night UK time....

[WealdSaint]

Not a bad thing for ML & the club to play it cool.

 

There are a lot of clubs where financial reality will bite soon.

 

I think that we can get excellent value for what funds ML makes available if we are quiet and business like.

[Smirking_Saint]

'Kin ell boys (and girls), pards has been in the job just over a week and we are already moving in to the doom and gloom.

 

As i have said before, things DON'T just happen overnight in this business, things take time.

 

If SJ is leaving it is for CCC football, nothing more. And we have not made substantial signings as i suspect AP has a fight on his hands getting the bosmans in as other clubs have had substantially more time.

 

Whats more, he said he was starting on Bosmans first, and then will re-assess.

 

Calm down dears, it's only new ownership

[benjii]

I think after the initial furore of the new owners arrival, it will sink in to most that we have RL part 2 but with a much better PR face. The club they said from day 1 would have to stand on its own feet, and apart from a little bit here and there i suspect we will be run as a profit making company.I would keep back from lauding it over other fans as i think it may back fire on you.

we are saved that is the best bit, the rest will be struggle and perhaps an initial putting in a bit of funds to help stave off the relegation thing, after that we will be much on our own.

A leopard does not change its spots.

 

 

Iam not against that by the way.

 

 

 

[NickG]

don't agree Nick - ML owns the stadium - there is a difference.

But SFC's only current significant overheads will be wages and upkeep of their property which compared to last season when we had an overdraft and a mortgage to service makes our position with or without ML far superior.

 

I do think some on here are struggling to get their heads around the private ownership malarkey. If and when ML opens his purse it will be interesting if it is in the form of a loan or an investment with no repayment.

 

he has said he knows he will have to continue to invest annually over the next 5 years.

Not sure what you disagree with sorry.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

he has said he knows he will have to continue to invest annually over the next 5 years.

Not sure what you disagree with sorry.

 

Sorry, you said "the club owns the stadium" and I was pointing out that the club doesn't but ML does. Semantics maybe but there is a difference albeit subtle.

[St Chalet]

They landed on the moon in the middle of the night UK time....

 

Of course they did, the moon is only visable at night.

[hypochondriac]

Sorry, you said "the club owns the stadium" and I was pointing out that the club doesn't but ML does. Semantics maybe but there is a difference albeit subtle.

 

You seem to be very mistrusting of the situation FF. What situation would have been acceptable to yourself? There have been absolutely no signs thus far that ML will be looking to leave us in the lurch. All his past history shows him to be a man who runs his businesses with integrity and honesty. There's nothing we can do to change anything if he does pull the plug but I'm not going to worry about the slight possibility that he might do that sometime in the distant future.

 

I'm prepared to accept that the bloke WANTS to restore us to our former glory, that he wants to do it the right way and that he isn't going to do anything dastardly along the way. If that makes me blinkered then so be it but at least I'm happy.

[Dr Octopus]

They landed on the moon in the middle of the night UK time....

 

In a studio

[Saint Fen]

Sorry, you said "the club owns the stadium" and I was pointing out that the club doesn't but ML does. Semantics maybe but there is a difference albeit subtle.

 

It may be just me, but you seem a bit negative.

 

I think you may have a problem with one person (ML) owning the club and with that he owns the assets.

 

I think however the company is owned whether PLC or Ltd Company there will always be doubts on how best it should be run.

 

Fortunately we have been brought / Saved by a billionaire and we should probably be grateful for the current financial stability. Hopefully he will invest (Although not too Stupidly like Pompey have) and we can go back where we belong and back to a well run club.

[Pat from Poole]

it might be difficult to attract players from the CCC but I don't see why we can't buy the best from this division and the one below.

 

I'd add that by doing so we would be avoiding injury prone last leg old timers that would offer no resale value. Instead we could be buying young hungry talent, probably on much lower wages, that really want to progress as the club does rather than just someone like Stern John who is just looking to pick up a final wage.

 

I realise we need good strong professionals to compliment youth talent, but don't kid yourself to think that Stern really gives a **** about this club, nor that he is only striker available to score goals at this level. Also don't underestimate Matt Patterson, plenty of young strikers have dropped down a division to get games and scored for fun. I saw Billy Sharpe mentioned a few days ago. If Sheff United had been relegated a few years back do you think Blades fans would have seen him scoring 20 goals in League 1. He joined Scunny and did exactly that before moving back to the CCC.

 

No matter what you think about Patterson there are a lot of very good players in the lower leagues and EVERY club is wiling to sell at the right price. Signing Stern John won't make or break us and IMHO we could do a lot better without him if the right players are brought in.

 

 

Voice of reason.

 

Stern John really isn't worth getting worked up about. Yes, he did save us against Sheffield United on the final day the season before last, but if we'd let in an equaliser after he'd got sent off and consequently gone down, there wouldn't be half as many Saints fans getting worked up about him potentially joining Palace.

[Mr X]

if we lose Rasiak, Stern and Saga I would presume that would free up a considerable amount of wages - if indeed the intention is to run the club as though it was a business.

 

bloody hope not that was Lord rosey cheeks policy and look where it got us

[Windmill Arm 2]

I think after the initial furore of the new owners arrival, it will sink in to most that we have RL part 2 but with a much better PR face. The club they said from day 1 would have to stand on its own feet, and apart from a little bit here and there i suspect we will be run as a profit making company.I would keep back from lauding it over other fans as i think it may back fire on you.

we are saved that is the best bit, the rest will be struggle and perhaps an initial putting in a bit of funds to help stave off the relegation thing, after that we will be much on our own.

A leopard does not change its spots.

 

 

Iam not against that by the way.

 

You morbid B'stard nickh !!!!

[once_bitterne]

It may be just me, but you seem a bit negative.

 

I think you may have a problem with one person (ML) owning the club and with that he owns the assets.

 

I think however the company is owned whether PLC or Ltd Company there will always be doubts on how best it should be run.

 

Fortunately we have been brought / Saved by a billionaire and we should probably be grateful for the current financial stability. Hopefully he will invest (Although not too Stupidly like Pompey have) and we can go back where we belong and back to a well run club.

 

Duncan just wants the early 80s back, that's all!

[hypochondriac]

I think after the initial furore of the new owners arrival, it will sink in to most that we have RL part 2 but with a much better PR face. The club they said from day 1 would have to stand on its own feet, and apart from a little bit here and there i suspect we will be run as a profit making company.I would keep back from lauding it over other fans as i think it may back fire on you.

we are saved that is the best bit, the rest will be struggle and perhaps an initial putting in a bit of funds to help stave off the relegation thing, after that we will be much on our own.

A leopard does not change its spots.

 

 

Iam not against that by the way.

 

Nick you are insane.

[hypochondriac]

It may be just me, but you seem a bit negative.

 

I think you may have a problem with one person (ML) owning the club and with that he owns the assets.

 

I think however the company is owned whether PLC or Ltd Company there will always be doubts on how best it should be run.

 

Fortunately we have been brought / Saved by a billionaire and we should probably be grateful for the current financial stability. Hopefully he will invest (Although not too Stupidly like Pompey have) and we can go back where we belong and back to a well run club.

 

Exactly. I'm not sure what Duncan is so upset about. I'm still really pleased about the situation. We never had a say as a PLC anyway and it wasn't exactly giving us success!

[Verbal]

Exactly. I'm not sure what Duncan is so upset about. I'm still really pleased about the situation. We never had a say as a PLC anyway and it wasn't exactly giving us success!

 

Well, the Lowe years might have made it appear as though all the fans who detested the idiocies of that time shared a common interest. But there always were a whole raft of agendas (for want of a better word) lurking beneath the surface.

 

I think that some - even, or perhaps especially, those who drew direct fire from the Great Leader - saw themselves as able to exercise more influence somehow in PLCWorld. Going to shareholder meetings, Trust meetings, or whatever must have given the sensation (if not the reality) of being an integral part of the whole thing.

 

For many of the rest of us, the difference between ownership by a private individual and being shackled to a PLC is seen exactly the other way around. Things may go pear-shaped with the ML - who knows? But right now, we sure as hell prefer it to the parade of pygmies who lucked out with their share certificates and then lorded over the club from the boardroom as the whole shebang sank into near-oblivion.

 

For a terrifying demonstration of monomaniacal pursuit under the 'shareholder democracy' of the PLC (actually as democratic as trade union block voting), just reflect on the year that's just been. It was so unspeakably awful that I don't think any of us has really come to terms with it. And in years to come, we'll look back on it with growing amazement that such a thing could possibly have happened.

 

Now we're beyond that, I get the sense that some of the old warriors feel a little becalmed.

 

I'm not talking about FF. Specifically.

[St Marco]

I also dearly want to be wrong.

 

Seeing as your wrong most of the time think we must assume this nickstradamus prediction will be wrong too.

 

The way i see it is quite simple really.

We have in under a month gone from having new owners and new manager.

We have a lot of players at the club who were out of contract, a lot of players who are not really wanting to be here and a lot of players who simply are not good enough.

 

ML did not make his money by being stupid, your post implies he does not know how to run a business.

The most important thing as Pardew has said "We need players who want to play for Southampton". The squad has lost a lot of these players who clearly do not want to play for Southampton. There will be more players leaving most likely Saga,Rasiak,John etc..

 

Once this phase is over and Pardew has his core squad of players he feels are commited to the cause you can then begin to add to it.

There is no point paying people stupid wages just to fill the numbers, your not get anywhere doing that. If we have learnt anything over the past 2 seasons is that if you have a team full of people who can't be arsed then you will fail.

The fact that Pardew has openly said he will give everyone a chance to prove themself and would prefer to keep players like Rasiak is just proof your view is baseless. Because that means ML is paying a high wage bill already, he is paying for all of those players who we could not afford to pay last season. Add to that he has obviously given Davis a much improved contract just cements it.

The important thing people seem to forget is that Pardew is a guy who builds his teams piece by piece. Sometimes that takes awhile. He himself said only a few days ago that the team will not be a team until 12 months from now.

You have to be realistic about it. Are players in Division three worth millions? Are players in the prem league or CCC going to be commited to the club by dropping down the leagues or just after a pay cheque?

 

The team will be built but it will take time. The right players will come eventually.

To compare a guy who has put £20m odd of his own money into the club to clear the debts etc with Lowe has to go down as the worst comment/comparison any Saints forum has ever seen.

As i said awhile ago Nickh you come across as a guy who wants to see the club fail just so you can say i told you so. The dark days are gone, be happy.

[Saint Cupelix]

Some people really need to wake up and smell the fresh morning air. 2 months ago we were waiting to be put in the ground with a nice little tombstone. we had mickey mouse running the show with goofy managing the team.

 

We now have a mega rich owner (which to me suggests that he's not here to make money unlike mickey as every one knows you don't make money in football as owners unless you can turn a club in to a very successful club - which means sound investment)

 

We also have a very good manager who just might get these players actually playing to their potential along with knowing how to put a team together. Putting players in their correct position is already a huge plus and if he can get them playing as a team instead of a bunch of individuals that we have had over the last few years this will go a long way to getting this team out of this division (the correct way).

 

You don't need to throw money at the team its about getting the best out of what you got. Playing to your strengths knowing your weaknesses and looking to improve those weaknesses.

 

This season was always going to be about building a TEAM. All I expect from this transfer window is a few good free signings there's plenty out there for this level of football. Do you really want to go back to how we were when dropped out of the Prem with all those useless squad players that were bench warmers at best. If the team is doing well or looking like it needs additions I would expect to see them during the Jan transfer window when Pardew's had a good chance to see how these players will perform with maybe a few loan signings to keep us going in the mean time.

 

RANT over.

[hypochondriac]

Well, the Lowe years might have made it appear as though all the fans who detested the idiocies of that time shared a common interest. But there always were a whole raft of agendas (for want of a better word) lurking beneath the surface.

 

I think that some - even, or perhaps especially, those who drew direct fire from the Great Leader - saw themselves as able to exercise more influence somehow in PLCWorld. Going to shareholder meetings, Trust meetings, or whatever must have given the sensation (if not the reality) of being an integral part of the whole thing.

 

For many of the rest of us, the difference between ownership by a private individual and being shackled to a PLC is seen exactly the other way around. Things may go pear-shaped with the ML - who knows? But right now, we sure as hell prefer it to the parade of pygmies who lucked out with their share certificates and then lorded over the club from the boardroom as the whole shebang sank into near-oblivion.

 

For a terrifying demonstration of monomaniacal pursuit under the 'shareholder democracy' of the PLC (actually as democratic as trade union block voting), just reflect on the year that's just been. It was so unspeakably awful that I don't think any of us has really come to terms with it. And in years to come, we'll look back on it with growing amazement that such a thing could possibly have happened.

 

Now we're beyond that, I get the sense that some of the old warriors feel a little becalmed.

 

I'm not talking about FF. Specifically.

 

Good post. In many ways I think we will have more of an influence as fans than we did previously. ML clearly wants this to work and it will not work if he ignores the fans completely. I am certain that he will stick to his plan whilst being mindful of fan feeling (he was after all reportedly checking Echo comments before buying.)

[Dark Munster]

ML bought SFC to either

 

A) Make money from it;

 

or

 

B) Not worry about making money, but to enjoy building it up to become a success (presumably at the Premier league level).

 

Let's see: It's almost impossible to make any serious money from a football club. And ML is, what, about 65. He's worth 2.5 billion, give or take.

 

Hmm, I'll guess it's B) then. :cool:

[The Godfather]

will they? Only Leeds' Delph is going to go for silly money. Other clubs need to balance books so players are available at the right price.

 

 

Jermaine Beckford, Ricky Lambert would command large fees. Simon Cox left Swindon for 2 million. I agree that their are players at the right price but I htink Pardew is looking at championship quality players at the moment who are available on a free but obviously that market is very competitive.

[Saint Paul C]

I htink Pardew is looking at championship quality players at the moment who are available on a free but obviously that market is very competitive.

 

And that is exactly what we should be doing. Get in a few discarded Championship level players, persuade them to drop down with the decent manager/stadium/fans/reputation this club has and get on with winning a few games of footie and enjoying life again.

 

Too many people on here are willing to criticize and spout b0110x (the real legacy of RL's tenure).

[alpine_saint]

This is the kind of thread that makes me want to pack up reading this site...

 

Absolutley. Completely agree.

 

This thread makes disgraceful reading. The amount of whinging and negativity on here considering :

 

-The club has survived.

-The club is under stable, fresh management on and off field with no baggage. For me, the sign of them doing their job properly is that they are invisible. Havent we wanted that for aeons ???

-The club is F*KING DEBT-FREE, which has been commented on by the new managment several times in the press

-Most SFC fans are looking forwards to the future and not the past, as is emphasised by ST sales which will end up significantly more than last season

 

There are some serious ego problems on this site. Pathetic attention-seeking.

 

Nickh has always been a miserable tw*t, but f*ck knows what is driving Dunc. Got too close to Crouch, I think.

[alpine_saint]

Well, the Lowe years might have made it appear as though all the fans who detested the idiocies of that time shared a common interest. But there always were a whole raft of agendas (for want of a better word) lurking beneath the surface.

 

I think that some - even, or perhaps especially, those who drew direct fire from the Great Leader - saw themselves as able to exercise more influence somehow in PLCWorld. Going to shareholder meetings, Trust meetings, or whatever must have given the sensation (if not the reality) of being an integral part of the whole thing.

 

For many of the rest of us, the difference between ownership by a private individual and being shackled to a PLC is seen exactly the other way around. Things may go pear-shaped with the ML - who knows? But right now, we sure as hell prefer it to the parade of pygmies who lucked out with their share certificates and then lorded over the club from the boardroom as the whole shebang sank into near-oblivion.

 

For a terrifying demonstration of monomaniacal pursuit under the 'shareholder democracy' of the PLC (actually as democratic as trade union block voting), just reflect on the year that's just been. It was so unspeakably awful that I don't think any of us has really come to terms with it. And in years to come, we'll look back on it with growing amazement that such a thing could possibly have happened.

 

Now we're beyond that, I get the sense that some of the old warriors feel a little becalmed.

 

I'm not talking about FF. Specifically.

 

Agree with hypo. Top-notch post.

 

I for one am not feeling becalmed. I am very happy about recent events at SFC...

[Teddy Nutkins]

Exactly. I'm not sure what Duncan is so upset about. I'm still really pleased about the situation. We never had a say as a PLC anyway and it wasn't exactly giving us success!

 

Duncan can speak for himself, but, having spent some time chatting with him a couple of weeks ago, i got the impression that he could not understand why someone with ML's wealth was buying SFC.What was his motivation?

 

I firmly believe ML is looking at a long term strategy in which he is eventually paid back with Premiership money.I am not sure that Duncan can "get his head around that", and appears to be suspicious.May be totally wrong, i apologise if i am wrong Duncan.

[Master Bates]

Former Forest striker Stern John, 32, has agreed a new one-year deal with Southampton.

[Red and White Army]

Absolutley. Completely agree.

 

This thread makes disgraceful reading. The amount of whinging and negativity on here considering :

 

[glkdcdes]

just come up on newsnowsouthampton that stern john has re signed with us with one year contract. hope correct.

[Wes Tender]

Now all we need to read is that Rasiak is staying too...

[Foxstone]

Absolutley. Completely agree.

 

This thread makes disgraceful reading. The amount of whinging and negativity on here considering :

 

-The club has survived.

-The club is under stable, fresh management on and off field with no baggage. For me, the sign of them doing their job properly is that they are invisible. Havent we wanted that for aeons ???

-The club is F*KING DEBT-FREE, which has been commented on by the new managment several times in the press

-Most SFC fans are looking forwards to the future and not the past, as is emphasised by ST sales which will end up significantly more than last season

 

There are some serious ego problems on this site. Pathetic attention-seeking.

 

Nickh has always been a miserable tw*t, but f*ck knows what is driving Dunc. Got too close to Crouch, I think.

 

I go along with that!

 

In the short time that ML has been here, I have seen more competence at board level than I can remember seeing at any time at the club, and as a result I am feeling more optimistic about the clubs prospects than at any time for a long, long time.

 

While keeping a low profile ( unlike Lowe, Crouch and others), his acumen, his strong ability to make timely and right decisions and good old fashioned common sense approach is just what this club has been crying out for ages.

 

He's doing the right things and I am more than happy to offer my support to him.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I don't see why everyone cares that much about John, he's not THAT good. I'd happily keep Rasiak over him.

 

But either way, I cannot believe what people are saying about ML, just give it time. We're unlikely to have a full new team in by the Millwall game, but may well do before the end of the transfer window.

 

Seriously, just ******* chill!!

[altoniansaints]

http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.co.uk/news/John-agrees-new-deal-Saints/article-1203741-detail/article.html

 

John signs one year deal according to nott forest website, were they after him?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I don't see why everyone cares that much about John, he's not THAT good.

 

[John B]

http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.co.uk/news/John-agrees-new-deal-Saints/article-1203741-detail/article.html

 

John signs one year deal according to nott forest website, were they after him?

 

He played for them at one time I think

[OldNick]

Don't worry Joe this is a compliment from nick as he was one of RL's biggest fans !

I was not one of his biggest fans, but I could understand why he took certain strategies, and defended hois position from a financial prudence viewpoint.. I am a fan of ML, and his prudent running of a business.(I wish the government were as shrewd)

[Clifford Nelson]

I go along with that!

 

In the short time that ML has been here, I have seen more competence at board level than I can remember seeing at any time at the club, and as a result I am feeling more optimistic about the clubs prospects than at any time for a long, long time.

 

While keeping a low profile ( unlike Lowe, Crouch and others), his acumen, his strong ability to make timely and right decisions and good old fashioned common sense approach is just what this club has been crying out for ages.

 

He's doing the right things and I am more than happy to offer my support to him.

 

"...to keep your head when all around you are losing theirs..." - we're just not used to anything but panic, arrogance, missed opportunities and creating of shareholder value.

 

Let's calm down and remember that whilst the continental business approach created Mercedes, BMW and Volkswagen, we created Rover. I'm sure some pretended it was the envy of the world as well.

[Master Bates]

Dave Jones "The day my wife accused Rupert Lowe of killing me".

 

Only in tomorrows echo.

[OldNick]

 

I really don't get NickH's criticisms? Was he expecting Kaka?

Well you don't get it.I stated from the off that it was not a criticism.It was my summary of how things will pan out, all IMHO. ML's business philosophy is that businesses are not subsidised but run on their own. Therefore i draw from that he will not be spending big and the club wil run off its own steam. Perhaps an initial spend to get us back on track, but the thought of lording it over all the other league clubs with big spends is not likely.

As i say not criticism but realism.

The club was bought outright and there in NO debt, therefore the 2.4 m mortgage repayments will now not have to be found, all helping the bottom line.

As for the Kaka snipe, perhaps you will put up a post where i have ever expected high class players? I am grateful to have a club, it is all the overexpectant fans who have gone overboard who are taking my comments as some kind of affront.

[The Godfather]

Dave Jones "The day my wife accused Rupert Lowe of killing me".

 

Only in tomorrows echo.

 

 

Will we find out the real reason where Lowe got his black eye from, and no the excuse he gave of got it playing hockey. Like Jones's wife giving him a right hook.

[John B]

I was not one of his biggest fans, but I could understand why he took certain strategies, and defended hois position from a financial prudence viewpoint.. I am a fan of ML, and his prudent running of a business.(I wish the government were as shrewd)

 

I thought you were were one of the most realistic and sensible posters until administration when you seemed to have a problem with Mr Fry.

 

:confused:

 

 

Now you are a fan of ML just because he has money . I fully expect he will be good for SFC but as yet that is not guaranteed because we have no real idea of his plans for the future and all his team has done is appoint an out of work manager who recently failed at another club although there is no reason that he will fail with us

[OldNick]

They landed on the moon in the middle of the night UK time....

If like me he was sat in the dinner hall at Shirley school to watch Armstrong set foot on the moon for the first time, he is right.The capsule may have landed during our night time, the first moonwalk (before Jacko) was done during schooltime as our school also sat and watched.

[OldNick]

I thought you were were one of the most realistic and sensible posters until administration when you seemed to have a problem with Mr Fry.

 

:confused:

 

 

Now you are a fan of ML just because he has money . I fully expect he will be good for SFC but as yet that is not guaranteed because we have no real idea of his plans for the future and all his team has done is appoint an out of work manager who recently failed at another club although there is no reason that he will fail with us

I am a fan of anyone who saved us from oblivion. I never jumped up and down in excitement when he took over as I read his history and how he goes about things.

I dont expect big signings just because he has money, but i see safety and that is fine by me.

Mark Fry nearly coc### it up big time and got lucky at the last minute IMO. I had converstaions with people dealing with him and he was almost too clever for his own good.Taking Pinnacle before the Swiss could easily have p###ed them off and leave forever.

He backedthe wrong horse but luckily the one laging behind had the staying power to win and save his bets.

I thnakyou for your first sentence though

[monkadill]

Staying?

 

http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.co.uk/news/John-agrees-new-deal-Saints/article-1203741-detail/article.html

[krissyboy31]

Staying?

 

http://www.thisisnottinghamforest.co.uk/news/John-agrees-new-deal-Saints/article-1203741-detail/article.html

 

Strange the Notts Evening Post has got it before anyone else!

Edited 29 July, 2009 by krissyboy31