chrisobee Posted 26 July, 2009 Share Posted 26 July, 2009 No surprises in the squad, Bell will play AJ Strauss (capt), AN Cook, RS Bopara, IR Bell, PD Collingwood, MJ Prior (wkt), A Flintoff, SCJ Broad, GP Swann, JM Anderson, G Onions, SJ Harmison, MS Panesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 I have never been a big fan of Bell, but he has had a brilliant season averaging 80. So I am willing to give him a chance, in my eyes he deserves to be in the team as much as Bopara does. It will be interesting to see who does the best out of these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 and he can field at silly point / short leg where he is very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Not a Bell fan either but he really has to do the business under pressure this time. Plus he won't be facing McGrath or Warne which helps. Hopefully we'll see the Bell that made 90 at Brisbane and not the terrified one that that edges behind with no footwork for 0. Nervous about him AND Bopara playing. Looks like Aus are going to drop North for Watson - talented player but has an injury record far worse than even Freddie. Pity Tremlett didn't get a late call - the way he bowled Saturday would have tested any batting line up in the world and Broad's not really making runs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Not a Bell fan either but he really has to do the business under pressure this time. Plus he won't be facing McGrath or Warne which helps. Hopefully we'll see the Bell that made 90 at Brisbane and not the terrified one that that edges behind with no footwork for 0. Nervous about him AND Bopara playing. Looks like Aus are going to drop North for Watson - talented player but has an injury record far worse than even Freddie. Pity Tremlett didn't get a late call - the way he bowled Saturday would have tested any batting line up in the world and Broad's not really making runs either. i heard that they will drop the opener bloke (whos name i cant remember..not katich) for watson. North hasnt done anything wrong imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 hughes...thats the fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 hughes...thats the fella Hughes would make more sense to be dropped, but I sense the Aussies will drop North instead, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 i heard that they will drop the opener bloke (whos name i cant remember..not katich) for watson. North hasnt done anything wrong imo I think they want to invest in Hughes though long-term, even if he is having some technical issues at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 So many ex-hampshire lads in that team, wonder if they heard about Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Hughes would make more sense to be dropped, but I sense the Aussies will drop North instead, fine by me, North is a much better player at the moment imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 fine by me, North is a much better player at the moment imo Yeah i agree, but the Aussie selecting is turning into ours meaning........ rubbish. Clark should have been picked ahead of every bowler (with the exception of Lee) and they should have treated the Symonds issue in a more sensible fasion. Instead they have taken out their most destructive batsman, won't drop a 20 year old because of his potential and have some unknown reason fail to pick perhaps their best bowler. Let's hope these selections continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 27 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Yes, I'm amazed that Stuart Clark was not picked for the 1st 2 tests, strange decision especially as he has experience in English conditions. It is North the Aussies are considering dropping it seems with Watson or McDonald coming in though there is talk both could play and Hauritz left out as well. Seems to me they are in disarray ! I was a fan of Bell but too many poor test innings have left me feeling rather uneasy at his selection though I'd gladly be proved wrong and he scored a big ton! He does indeed deserve a place as much as Bopara though to me that just underlines how thin on the ground we are with our batting options unless we go with an untried player like Denly or Carberry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Well Haurtiz has been the surprise of the series for me so far (even though Johnson is hot on his heels with being the biggest disappointment). Having said that if you look at many of the wickets Haurtiz has taken they have been much like Ashley Giles' wickets, batsman getting out rather than the bowler getting them out. The irony is, I remember Giles getting slated by the Aussie media, we have now done the same with Haurtiz and he has been their second best bowler after Hilfenhaus so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 I friggin' hated Giles as a "bowler." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1Minus10 Posted 27 July, 2009 Share Posted 27 July, 2009 Bell has no backbone and can't be relied upon. Having him and Bopara is a big risk. Also, his average was 80 which was before he got 0 and 7 v Hampshire in his last match when Michael Carberry scored 200 odd. You want to go with the 'in form' batsman argument, i suggest you look at Carbs, especially as he either opens or bats at 3. Bowling - I reckon Harmy wil come in for Onions and he'll either be brilliant or a waste of space. I'd love to see Harmy and Flintoff opening the bowling against Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Bell has no backbone and can't be relied upon. Having him and Bopara is a big risk. Also, his average was 80 which was before he got 0 and 7 v Hampshire in his last match when Michael Carberry scored 200 odd. You want to go with the 'in form' batsman argument, i suggest you look at Carbs, especially as he either opens or bats at 3. Bowling - I reckon Harmy wil come in for Onions and he'll either be brilliant or a waste of space. I'd love to see Harmy and Flintoff opening the bowling against Hughes. This is interesting, maybe Onions and Harmy should both play ! http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/416537.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Hope the Aussies do play McDonald - decent bat but his bowling is county standard medium pace. Watson would more of a threat - if he lasts the match. Hauritz would need to play IMO to mitigate the risk of Watson's injury record as I don't think Johnson will be dropped. I agree with those saying it would be harsh to drop North but CA really believe in Hughes and when they've backed young players after a rough start in the past - Warne, McGrath (made little impact in 94/5 Ashes), Waugh twins - they have usually reaped their reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Perfect situation for England is if Johnson and Hughes stay in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Bell has no backbone and can't be relied upon. Having him and Bopara is a big risk. Also, his average was 80 which was before he got 0 and 7 v Hampshire in his last match when Michael Carberry scored 200 odd. You want to go with the 'in form' batsman argument, i suggest you look at Carbs, especially as he either opens or bats at 3. Bowling - I reckon Harmy wil come in for Onions and he'll either be brilliant or a waste of space. I'd love to see Harmy and Flintoff opening the bowling against Hughes. yep i agree, mentioned it before on another thread too. Carbs is a good player and an awesome fielder but England have their pool of favoirites and wont step outside of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 yep i agree, mentioned it before on another thread too. Carbs is a good player and an awesome fielder but England have their pool of favoirites and wont step outside of it. Tbh I would pick at least 5 batsman ahead of Carberry and Bell is averaging 30 more runs an innings than Carberry this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithd Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 yep, bell and carberry both in form, but bell has test experience, whilst carberry has none. i dont like bell, think he's got massive flaws in his game, the aussies have him sussed. its not a good recipe for sure. but he's in, so im hoping the sherminator (as warnie calls him!) does well. bopara needs an innings. he's getting a bit flash and cokky, and has done nowt so far. edgbaston is a good hunting ground for us, but think its gonna be a tough call. england by 3 wickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Tbh I would pick at least 5 batsman ahead of Carberry and Bell is averaging 30 more runs an innings than Carberry this season. who? with bell and bopara in the side i am very worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 who? with bell and bopara in the side i am very worried Bell has international experience, true he hasn't done well against Australia and I am not a fan of his but he deserves his opportunity with the runs he has scored this season. He is therefore a better candidate than Carberry who would be thrown in at the deep end, probably score nothing, lose all confidence and never return to the England set up. The other 4 players I would pick ahead of Carberry are: Hildreth, Trott, Shah and Key. None of these are excellent choices but they are certainly better than Carberry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Bell has international experience, true he hasn't done well against Australia and I am not a fan of his but he deserves his opportunity with the runs he has scored this season. He is therefore a better candidate than Carberry who would be thrown in at the deep end, probably score nothing, lose all confidence and never return to the England set up. The other 4 players I would pick ahead of Carberry are: Hildreth, Trott, Shah and Key. None of these are excellent choices but they are certainly better than Carberry. Unlike Bell who lost all his confidence after scoring nothing and is somehow back in the fold..? We don't need too much tinkering with this team. If the Aussies want to fiddle that's fine, just shows they're nervous. We definitely shouldn't start changing the bowling line-up after demolishing them last time, however good Harmison's uncannily timed form is. If Bell must play, please not at 3 and please not immediately after Bopara. I'm still hopeful that Bopara will come good in this series, and all it will take is one innings. But if he screws up in the first innings and Bell walks to the crease, that's got 'batting collapse' written all over it. Get at least Colly and preferably Prior too between them in the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Bell has international experience, true he hasn't done well against Australia and I am not a fan of his but he deserves his opportunity with the runs he has scored this season. He is therefore a better candidate than Carberry who would be thrown in at the deep end, probably score nothing, lose all confidence and never return to the England set up. The other 4 players I would pick ahead of Carberry are: Hildreth, Trott, Shah and Key. None of these are excellent choices but they are certainly better than Carberry. shah - not for me, too many chances in the past and has issues with cramp Key - would still rather have carberry Hildreth and Trott - both good players and would want to see them play for England before long. I like Bell, especially his fielding at silly point, where he is far better then anyone else we have. Just worries me that with Bopara we will be very weak if the top 2 get out cheaply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Unlike Bell who lost all his confidence after scoring nothing and is somehow back in the fold..? We don't need too much tinkering with this team. If the Aussies want to fiddle that's fine, just shows they're nervous. We definitely shouldn't start changing the bowling line-up after demolishing them last time, however good Harmison's uncannily timed form is. If Bell must play, please not at 3 and please not immediately after Bopara. I'm still hopeful that Bopara will come good in this series, and all it will take is one innings. But if he screws up in the first innings and Bell walks to the crease, that's got 'batting collapse' written all over it. Get at least Colly and preferably Prior too between them in the order. The thing is Bell wasn't thrown in at the deep end in the middle of an Ashes series. The pressure would be immense, and for somebody on their debut very rarely they would do well (KP is obviously an exception to this). Bell in my eyes has done everything possible to gain a recall, he has piled on the runs this season and at an amazing average. If Carberry was to be picked ahead of him (with an average nowhere near as good as Bell's) this would be totally unjust in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 shah - not for me, too many chances in the past and has issues with cramp Key - would still rather have carberry Hildreth and Trott - both good players and would want to see them play for England before long. I like Bell, especially his fielding at silly point, where he is far better then anyone else we have. Just worries me that with Bopara we will be very weak if the top 2 get out cheaply All those players who I have mentioned have far superior averages to Carberry this season. I honestly don't see any argument why Carberry should be picked ahead of those. I am really not a Key, Bell or Shah fan but I think if they are scoring the runs then they deserve to be picked for the national side. If I were them and Carberry was picked ahead of me, I would be seriously disheartened as to why he was selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 (edited) All those players who I have mentioned have far superior averages to Carberry this season. I honestly don't see any argument why Carberry should be picked ahead of those. I am really not a Key, Bell or Shah fan but I think if they are scoring the runs then they deserve to be picked for the national side. If I were them and Carberry was picked ahead of me, I would be seriously disheartened as to why he was selected. Carberry has hit form at the right time. Why is cricket the ONLY sport in which the best team isnt selected. In football, players get called up who are playing well. I guess this was one of the fears with the central contracts. Edited 28 July, 2009 by JustMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Carberry has hit form at the right time. Why is cricket the ONLY sport in which the best team is selected. In football, players get called up who are playing well. I guess this was one of the fears with the central contracts. Haha I wouldn't say cricket selects the best team, why was Ashley Giles selected for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Haha I wouldn't say cricket selects the best team, why was Ashley Giles selected for so long. hahaha exactly my point (i meant to say "isnt selected" in my last post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 hahaha exactly my point (i meant to say "isnt selected" in my last post) Well I agree with that point now Picking Ashley Giles for 50 odd tests has to be perhaps one of the worst and mystifying decisions in sporting history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Well I agree with that point now Picking Ashley Giles for 50 odd tests has to be perhaps one of the worst and mystifying decisions in sporting history. hehehe yep. Bit like that "fast" bowler they picked for one test recently, cant remember his name but he looked lost all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 July, 2009 who? with bell and bopara in the side i am very worried Yes, my thoughts exactly, I wish there were 5 better options but quite simply there aren't ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 hehehe yep. Bit like that "fast" bowler they picked for one test recently, cant remember his name but he looked lost all the time Khan was it? Oh dear that was a failure. Wasn't his first over nearly a 12 ball over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Bell has international experience, true he hasn't done well against Australia and I am not a fan of his but he deserves his opportunity with the runs he has scored this season. He is therefore a better candidate than Carberry who would be thrown in at the deep end, probably score nothing, lose all confidence and never return to the England set up. The other 4 players I would pick ahead of Carberry are: Hildreth, Trott, Shah and Key. None of these are excellent choices but they are certainly better than Carberry. Possibly Shah, the others ? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Possibly Shah, the others ? Nope. Hildreth and Trott especially have a far superior averages and are younger, surely they warrant a place more than Carberry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Khan was it? Oh dear that was a failure. Wasn't his first over nearly a 12 ball over? him yes and there was another that played in England too, think he wasnt even english (SA i think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 (edited) him yes and there was another that played in England too, think he wasnt even english (SA i think) Oh yes, Australian I think actually. Apparently he said in his interview that he didn't even support England it was just a way he could play international cricket. Edited 28 July, 2009 by Saintjersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Hildreth and Trott especially have a far superior averages and are younger, surely they warrant a place more than Carberry? Trott is I believe only about 6 months younger and Pothas has a 1st class average this season better than all of them. Does not mean I would select him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Trott is I believe only about 6 months younger and Pothas has a 1st class average this season better than all of them. Does not mean I would select him though. Pothas would definately be a good shout, but unfortunately I would say he is too old to make his Test debut. I see your point about Trott, I thought he was younger. However, Hildreth is a brilliant prospect and still as I said have far superior averages than Carberry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 The thing is Bell wasn't thrown in at the deep end in the middle of an Ashes series. The pressure would be immense, and for somebody on their debut very rarely they would do well (KP is obviously an exception to this). Bell in my eyes has done everything possible to gain a recall, he has piled on the runs this season and at an amazing average. If Carberry was to be picked ahead of him (with an average nowhere near as good as Bell's) this would be totally unjust in my eyes. I know mate, I was being slightly facetious with the comparison. I do however think that Bell's confidence as a test batsman (and to some extent his colleagues' confidence in him) is shot and his technique found wanting. I'm not sure that the 'going back and doing it for your county' cure will have worked. He'll still be fragile and flat-footed. I'd personally like to see Key given another chance as I think he has the temperament, but it's unlikely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithd Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 hehehe yep. Bit like that "fast" bowler they picked for one test recently, cant remember his name but he looked lost all the time tomlinson was his name i believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints-cris Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 I like Bell, I think technically he's one of the best players we have, but he has that annoying habit of doing a crunching drive one ball that has you praising him as the new David Gower and then the next ball poking at it outside offstump and edging behind. He has the ability no doubt, but I always think he's just going to keep failing against the Aussies. He's great against bangladesh though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints-cris Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 hehehe yep. Bit like that "fast" bowler they picked for one test recently, cant remember his name but he looked lost all the time Pattinson or something wasn't it. He was dreadful and I have no clue what all that was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 I do not feel at all confident about this match and feel we will really miss KP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1Minus10 Posted 28 July, 2009 Share Posted 28 July, 2009 Averages only tell you part of the story. Bell never scores heavily when it's needed. If we're 300-1 when he comes in then he's the man but if we're 45-4 and he has some responsibility then he wilts. He got in the Test side in 2005 for a series against Bangladesh, before they became anything like a useful side and he scored heavily which kept him in for the Ashes where he sucked - his average was still over 40 though because of the Bangladesh series. People talk of him being in form over a season but it's world of difference batting in early May, to batting in late July. Bopara was in great form in May and he's not now, same as Bell. Averages only tell part of the story. Carberry for example has scored 500ish runs in his last 3 matches - who would you say was the in form batsman ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NI76 Posted 29 July, 2009 Share Posted 29 July, 2009 You can't pick a test team on who has scored the most runs and taken the most wickets in the last 2 or 3 matches otherwise we'd have a different XI every game. Before his recent three centuries, Carbs had not scored one for two years so to suggest he should go straight into the middle of an Ashes series simply bacause of one hot streak in a two year period is utterly ridiculous. Bell deserves his place and I hope he makes the most of it. He's certainly got the talent but has he got the temperament - similar to Ramps maybe? The one thing in his favour is that all his previous mental scars were against an Aussie side containing Warne, McGrath etc. Not only two of the finest bowlers cricket has ever seen but also two of the best sledgers with Warne admitting that they targeted Bell - they called him the Sherminator after the character in American Pie! Their current bowling attack must be their weakest for 20 years and they have had a directive from CA to cut the sledging. Let's just hope they keep leaving Stuart Clark out as he's the one bowler they've got who I really worry about, especially in English conditions. Quite how they've left him out for Johnson, Siddle and Hilfenhaus I'll never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 29 July, 2009 Share Posted 29 July, 2009 yep, bell and carberry both in form, but bell has test experience, whilst carberry has none. i dont like bell, think he's got massive flaws in his game, the aussies have him sussed. its not a good recipe for sure. but he's in, so im hoping the sherminator (as warnie calls him!) does well. bopara needs an innings. he's getting a bit flash and cokky, and has done nowt so far. edgbaston is a good hunting ground for us, but think its gonna be a tough call. england by 3 wickets. We'll be lucky if the game nears any sort of result sadly, unless of course the forecast (not our reserve goalkeeper) improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 29 July, 2009 Share Posted 29 July, 2009 Well I agree with that point now Picking Ashley Giles for 50 odd tests has to be perhaps one of the worst and mystifying decisions in sporting history. It would be mystifying if we'd had a better spinner available. We didn't. Plus, the King of Spain wasn't all that bad. Pattinson or something wasn't it. He was dreadful and I have no clue what all that was about. Darren Pattinson, yeah. Rumour at the time was that we picked him so that he couldn't play against us for Aus this summer. Wish he was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 29 July, 2009 Share Posted 29 July, 2009 It would be mystifying if we'd had a better spinner available. We didn't. Plus, the King of Spain wasn't all that bad. Darren Pattinson, yeah. Rumour at the time was that we picked him so that he couldn't play against us for Aus this summer. Wish he was! Giles wasn't that bad?!?!?! Average of 40 with the ball in 54 tests taking 143 wickets, excuse me if I am wrong but that is shocking statistics. The only time Giles ever looked like taking a wicket was when he bowled the ball into the rough, apart from that his wickets generally included the batsman getting out rather than him getting them out. I always hate the argument that 'we didn't have a better a spinner', well if we didn't have a good enough spinner for test cricket don't have one in the side!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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