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How damaging do you think the Pinnacle fiasco will be..?


Thedelldays

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Originally Posted by EastleighSoulBoy

Despite his shortcomings I reckon LC is a hero for keeping the patient breathing while others were preparing to screw the coffin lid down!

I see he backed both Wilde and Lynam - his judgement is clearly terrible and he has directly contributed to the demise of SFC through his installation of Wilde and Hone.... a mistake he was on the verge of repeating by backing the potless wonders in the Pinnacle bid.

 

 

 

Here’s a thought that could wake you up in the night in a cold sweat. Just imagine they had delved down the back of their respective sofa’s, throw in a couple of car booters and found the rest via a non high street lender. Still no pot to **** in, with further players having to be sold and Liebherr a distant memory.

 

Now that is scary!

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I see he backed both Wilde and Lynam - his judgement is clearly terrible and he has directly contributed to the demise of SFC through his installation of Wilde and Hone.... a mistake he was on the verge of repeating by backing the potless wonders in the Pinnacle bid.

 

So where, exactly, might we have been if, in pandering to your wishes, LC had not stumped up any money? Instead he could have sat on his hands and watched your team, my team, our team, die.

 

I'm not casting LC as a Saint, but he certainly stumped up money when it was very badly needed.

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Very damaging. The reality is we are left with 2 weeks to go until the new season starts. we have no clue on what players are coming in or which ones are going to leave. We have basically no backroom coaching staff, and to top it off we have to start with minus 10 (cheers Rupert).

The fact is they just beat our current owner into exclusivity. The reasons why Mark Fry agreed is clear and that is it helped to pay people and keep the club going for another month. You have to put guranteed money ahead of potential money. If he took the ML bid and waited and waited for the cash who is to say that it might not have appeared and they backed out? leaving no money at all. We got lucky, we were lucky that ML waited and waited.

But if as suggested he was going to do the deal but Pinnacle got in 1st then that means we were robbed of 4 weeks to prepare for the new season. If we had 6 weeks instead of 2 then things would look very different today in terms of both playing staff and coaching staff, i believe we would be in a better position for the new season.

Today was a good display by the lads but the goals were scored by players who potentially might not be here next week. We need a team out there who will all be here for the whole of next season. We need to get a team together and we now have only 2 weeks to do that.

So it was/is very damaging, time is of the essence now. We need a lot of new players and a lot of them who left in the month pinnacle were looking like getting the deal might have stayed on i.e Surman.

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No offence taken FF but please note that I did not present anything as a FACT !

I used the wording "if, as reported" and "perhaps" mainly because nobody has officially said that LC paid the £500k on behalf of Pinnacle !

Playing devil's advocate, however - if LC did pay the money then he (at the very least) gave tacit approval to their bid and I wonder why he is to be judged as a hero and they as the villians when they played a combined part in the delay of the sale to ML ???

 

Well that's a fair question but LC is not too happy that he was basically conned out of paying it, therefore it wasn't done as a charity gesture (his heart was ruling his head at this point). IE Pinnacle told him the money would be there in a few days but in the meantime etc etc. He had belatedly hitched his pony onto the Pinnacle wagon and was being strung along by a man who's name I know (on the original e mail) but won't go public with again just yet. From what I can gather it was he that led, Lynam. MLT and Crouch "up the garden path".

 

FWIW I also heard that Pinnacle were already looking to sell the club on, and again the source for that story was very near the action. Pinnacle may have started off well-intentioned (Lynam and MLT) but their backers were never really interested yet never told them.

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Clearly the Pinnacle bid held things up by a few weeks but (if, as reported) they were the only ones willing to put up the £500k deposit which paid the May wages then perhaps they actually saved us !

In any case it's history, just like Rupert, just like Branfoot, just like World War 2 !

Perhaps we should reflect on the fact that further damage could be done to the club by dredging up subjects like this as they could affect supporter unity and cause ongoing embarrassment to one of our greatest legends !!

 

I seem to remember Mark Fry saying that Pinnacle beat to the exclusivity period 'another interested party' (which I now take to have been Markus Liebherr) by a matter of hours only - such a shame as time is the one asset that once lost can never be fully recovered .

 

What a sad irony it is that MLT - probably the greatest player ever to grace this club with his presence - should be unwittingly involved with dubious chancers who ended up harming it . :(

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Thank you FF for your (as usual) clear and convincing explanation of the background to the last few months. We are just so lucky that after our near death experience we have a club to support, an apparently wealthy but pragmatic owner and a seemingly motivating manager! LC may not have had his business hat on when he contributed the money to pay the wages, but I assume that doing so prevented the "Winding Up" and he deserves gratitude for it.

I could moan about the past few years of Saints and Mr Lowe, etc: but itis all in the past. I no longer care about Pinnacle, Wilde, Administration etc; well I am sore really, but I am going to enjoy our new renaissance and the building of a great team. Good Lord, we actually won a friendly today.:)

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Well that's a fair question but LC is not too happy that he was basically conned out of paying it, therefore it wasn't done as a charity gesture (his heart was ruling his head at this point). IE Pinnacle told him the money would be there in a few days but in the meantime etc etc. He had belatedly hitched his pony onto the Pinnacle wagon and was being strung along by a man who's name I know (on the original e mail) but won't go public with again just yet. From what I can gather it was he that led, Lynam. MLT and Crouch "up the garden path".

 

FWIW I also heard that Pinnacle were already looking to sell the club on, and again the source for that story was very near the action. Pinnacle may have started off well-intentioned (Lynam and MLT) but their backers were never really interested yet never told them.

 

I can hardly wait for you to be in a safe legal position to reveal exactly what sort of krap was going on behind the scenes. Then we'll all know who was 'doing one' on us all!

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Well that's a fair question but LC is not too happy that he was basically conned out of paying it, therefore it wasn't done as a charity gesture (his heart was ruling his head at this point). IE Pinnacle told him the money would be there in a few days but in the meantime etc etc. He had belatedly hitched his pony onto the Pinnacle wagon and was being strung along by a man who's name I know (on the original e mail) but won't go public with again just yet. From what I can gather it was he that led, Lynam. MLT and Crouch "up the garden path".

 

FWIW I also heard that Pinnacle were already looking to sell the club on, and again the source for that story was very near the action. Pinnacle may have started off well-intentioned (Lynam and MLT) but their backers were never really interested yet never told them.

 

Thanks FF, not being ITK in any way, I tend to rely on official statements and in the case of the £500k it was only ever reported that Pinnacle paid for exclusivity ! LC has indeed done his bit as a 'true Saint' and I do have the utmost respect for him and thank God that he actually had the money to squander ! I hope that he is in a position to sue the barstewards who stitched him up, but then again he might just put it down to experience and move on supporting his beloved club !!

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Well that's a fair question but LC is not too happy that he was basically conned out of paying it, therefore it wasn't done as a charity gesture (his heart was ruling his head at this point). IE Pinnacle told him the money would be there in a few days but in the meantime etc etc. He had belatedly hitched his pony onto the Pinnacle wagon and was being strung along by a man who's name I know (on the original e mail) but won't go public with again just yet. From what I can gather it was he that led, Lynam. MLT and Crouch "up the garden path".

 

FWIW I also heard that Pinnacle were already looking to sell the club on, and again the source for that story was very near the action. Pinnacle may have started off well-intentioned (Lynam and MLT) but their backers were never really interested yet never told them.

 

So when people on here slag off Lynam, in reality as he was acting as nothing more than the middle man or broker, he was conned as much as MLT and Leon Crouch.

 

Could people kindly remember that then before telling him to **** off from this site etc.

You wouldnt tell Matt to go forth so spare this guy who was genuinally, i believe, doing what he thought was right and proper for the future of SFC.

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SOMEBODY was trying to destroy us completely IMHO, ie Delay, Delay, Delay

 

 

Any suspects spring to mind SR?

 

 

..........................WELL??!!!!!.................................................

........you.............................love...........................................

.....................................L..........................................

.......................O................................................................

.....W...................................................................................

............E.......................................................................

 

 

:rolleyes:

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Any suspects spring to mind SR?

 

 

..........................WELL??!!!!!.................................................

........you.............................love...........................................

.....................................L..........................................

.......................O................................................................

.....W...................................................................................

............E.......................................................................

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

 

I really don't know what you mean:D

 

BUT .... IMHO, the "Debt" WAS being reduced ..... so WHO told (Fry) of Barclays to "pull the plug" ......... ONE week late

 

....... and where is Fry (ex Barclays) working now ??? ::snipe:cool:

 

 

 

PS: Bit OTT with the use of ......... IMHO:p:D

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So when people on here slag off Lynam, in reality as he was acting as nothing more than the middle man or broker, he was conned as much as MLT and Leon Crouch.

 

Could people kindly remember that then before telling him to **** off from this site etc.

You wouldnt tell Matt to go forth so spare this guy who was genuinally, i believe, doing what he thought was right and proper for the future of SFC.

 

I honestly don't know how much Lynam knew. As far as I know neither MLT or LC "blame" him so the culprit may indeed be one higher rung up the chain. Pretty sure it wasn't Fialka however as his name came from nowhere.

 

I think the one who was leading everyone up the garden path was one of the 6 names on the original e mail but I think that name is up to others (The Echo?) to reveal or investigate.

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I honestly don't know how much Lynam knew. As far as I know neither MLT or LC "blame" him so the culprit may indeed be one higher rung up the chain. Pretty sure it wasn't Fialka however as his name came from nowhere.

 

QUOTE]

 

It does seem highly likely to me.

 

 

But what I have understood is whether Lynam thought it was good idea to buy SFC and went looking for backers or some backer thought it was good idea and contacted Lynam.

 

If it was the former there was always a chance of failure

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Cant make my mind up if it is attention-seeking, score-settling or paranoia.

 

I think if this thread, or some posters, are able to 'clear' the name of those people who originally set out to do good by the club then its no bad thing, if as FF suggests one man as yet unamed took everyone for a ride then I fail to understand why Lynam, Crouch or MLT do not name him.

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i think if this thread, or some posters, are able to 'clear' the name of those people who originally set out to do good by the club then its no bad thing, if as ff suggests one man as yet unamed took everyone for a ride then i fail to understand why lynam, crouch or mlt do not name him.
right lets av a name and be done with it!
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Seems to me we have no proof who paid what on behalf of Pinnacle, but what we do know is that the money paid the wages etc and kept the club alive. NO ONE on here knows that ML would of paid that figure.

 

Time to move on, the entire thread is based on speculation, who knows if the question had been:-

 

would the club still exist if Pinnacle hadn't paid a deposit?

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Seems to me we have no proof who paid what on behalf of Pinnacle, but what we do know is that the money paid the wages etc and kept the club alive. NO ONE on here knows that ML would of paid that figure.

 

Time to move on, the entire thread is based on speculation, who knows if the question had been:-

 

would the club still exist if Pinnacle hadn't paid a deposit?[/ THEY DIDNT COUCH DID!:mad:]

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I spoke to an ex Director last week who was pretty certain it was Crouch who paid the "pinnacle" deposit. This fits with information I was given previously about a certain account where the money came from and who the signatory of that account was.

 

Incidently he also confirmed that some of those with past connections to SLH were looking to take a box this season. Lowe was not one of them, many will be pleased to know.

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Agree completely.

 

Cant make my mind up if it is attention-seeking, score-settling or paranoia.

 

Starting to think that the OP has issues when it comes to being happy from looking at the threads he's started recently. Maybe comes from being locked up in a tube for weeks on end.

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So when people on here slag off Lynam, in reality as he was acting as nothing more than the middle man or broker, he was conned as much as MLT and Leon Crouch.

 

Could people kindly remember that then before telling him to **** off from this site etc.

You wouldnt tell Matt to go forth so spare this guy who was genuinally, i believe, doing what he thought was right and proper for the future of SFC.

 

I think that sounds a very fair point. Tony Lynam seemed like a genuine guy (endorsed by those on here who know him) and may well have been strung along. I don't think we should be rude to anyone who posts on here, even our 'beloved' rivals, just ignore them if you don't like what they say. Simples really!

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Interestingly, I think it would be good to know whether it was TL who thought of the idea for a bid and then looked for backers - Bringing MLT on board would then have been a good strategy for the publicity it generated etc - (Although IMHO, these things are best done behind closed doors, if looking to raise funds to back a bid, then going the publicity route can help to gain momentum and interest from potential backers), or whether the main backer who later 'pulled out' approached Tony?

 

If the latter, I would ask whether TL thought it a little odd that the 'backer' approached Pinnacle which seemed an odd choice for brokering such a deal?

 

From those that I know who have spoken directly with TL, its pretty clear that this was a genuine attempt to save the club. I guess you do however need to ask whether it was naive on both teh part of TL and subsequently Leon Crouch to interpret the assurances they had from the backers as concrete, without the appropriate guarrantees?

 

I dont thin slinging mud at Tony's direction is necessary or justified, but it would be good to hear his version of events directly so that this can be put to bed and we can move on.

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Interestingly, I think it would be good to know whether it was TL who thought of the idea for a bid and then looked for backers - Bringing MLT on board would then have been a good strategy for the publicity it generated etc - (Although IMHO, these things are best done behind closed doors, if looking to raise funds to back a bid, then going the publicity route can help to gain momentum and interest from potential backers), or whether the main backer who later 'pulled out' approached Tony?

 

If the latter, I would ask whether TL thought it a little odd that the 'backer' approached Pinnacle which seemed an odd choice for brokering such a deal?

 

From those that I know who have spoken directly with TL, its pretty clear that this was a genuine attempt to save the club. I guess you do however need to ask whether it was naive on both teh part of TL and subsequently Leon Crouch to interpret the assurances they had from the backers as concrete, without the appropriate guarrantees?

 

I dont thin slinging mud at Tony's direction is necessary or justified, but it would be good to hear his version of events directly so that this can be put to bed and we can move on.

 

I agree with you just for interest's sake it would be good to know

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I guess you do however need to ask whether it was naive on both teh part of TL and subsequently Leon Crouch to interpret the assurances they had from the backers as concrete, without the appropriate guarrantees?

.

 

And not forgetting they managed to bluff their way past Fry and a team of experts at BT that they had proof of sufficient funding in place. Back to the original post then has it damaged us? Well, it's held us back in terms of time available to prepare for the coming season but we also seem to have been left with a decent owner with a long term interest who is putting a solid team of people together. I for one feel a lot more optimistic about the future than I have for two or three years.

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And not forgetting they managed to bluff their way past Fry and a team of experts at BT that they had proof of sufficient funding in place. Back to the original post then has it damaged us? Well, it's held us back in terms of time available to prepare for the coming season but we also seem to have been left with a decent owner with a long term interest who is putting a solid team of people together. I for one feel a lot more optimistic about the future than I have for two or three years.

 

To be honest, I doubt Markus Liebherr would have been able to complete that much quicker if alone in the race from the start. He was able to move swiftly after Pinnacle collapsed as it appears much of the work had been done anyway - almost as if they expected Pinnacle not to complete? The due dilligence and legals would have still taken several weeks so maybe we may have had an extra 2 maybe 3 weeks, and as much as managers might complain, players were still on tehir hols for much of that time - we would probably have only really gained maybe 10 days from a practical perspective.. not sure how much of a disadvantage this has been as a result.

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To be honest' date=' I doubt Markus Liebherr would have been able to complete that much quicker if alone in the race from the start. He was able to move swiftly after Pinnacle collapsed as it appears much of the work had been done anyway - almost as if they expected Pinnacle not to complete? The due dilligence and legals would have still taken several weeks so maybe we may have had an extra 2 maybe 3 weeks, and as much as managers might complain, players were still on tehir hols for much of that time - we would probably have only really gained maybe 10 days from a practical perspective.. not sure how much of a disadvantage this has been as a result.[/quote']

 

What's interesting is that ML is on record (somewhere, can't remember where) saying that after his first visit to St.Marys in 2008 (I think) he made his mind up there and then that he would get involved / buy the club so why he didn't get in pole position prior to Pinnacle seems an, as yet, unanswered question. The obvious answer I guess is that being an astute businessman he was waiting for the club to be at rock bottom dollar before he made his move?

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It seems Pards is working very hard against the clock and realise that with the players left, there is so much to do...

 

I cant help but feel so farking angry at the fiasco surrounding Pinnacle and the damage that has caused..just think, pardew has lost around one month potentially in preparing the club and bringing in players etc.

 

I am greatful of course that Markus came in, but if reports are correct, he was always interested...

 

Pinnacle could have and probably cost this club dear in build up towards the season and the start of it..

 

:smt065

 

I don't think it wouldn't have made any difference. The serious buyers only pop their heads up in the 11th hour to get the best price and let the others do the leg work, which is what happened.

 

There's always too much analysis on how things went wrong. It's not always somebody's fault. Give them the benefit, assume they had the best intentions and move forward.

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What's interesting is that ML is on record (somewhere, can't remember where) saying that after his first visit to St.Marys in 2008 (I think) he made his mind up there and then that he would get involved / buy the club so why he didn't get in pole position prior to Pinnacle seems an, as yet, unanswered question. The obvious answer I guess is that being an astute businessman he was waiting for the club to be at rock bottom dollar before he made his move?

 

Good point and begs the question that if he did indeed visit in 2008, why didn't he try to buy the club then. After all he would have had little or no idea that we were heading for admin then - or had he?

Edited by RonManager
Clarity based on P Chuckle's comment below
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Good point and begs the question as to why he didn't try to buy the club in 2008. After all he would have had little or no idea that we were heading for admin then - or had he?

 

his first visit was in 2009 after he heard the club was in admin. where did you get 2008 from?????

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his first visit was in 2009 after he heard the club was in admin. where did you get 2008 from?????

 

In all fairness to RM that date came from me, I may be completely wrong (I pointed this out in the post I made the comment), I can't even recall where I read the article although it was a quote attributed to ML himself. I thought it was 2008 but you could well be right. I'll rack my brains to see if I can find the article in question. Still begs the question as to why he didn't beat Pinnacle to the period of exclusivity?

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Found the link I was referring to...

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4495663.Saints__new_owner_wants_big_turn_out_on_Saturday/

 

and the relevant comment...

 

“It will be my first visit since late May when I first became convinced to make my investment in this great club.

 

I can see that I read 'late May' as 'last May'.......my apols :smt100

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I too have just trawled the Echo's archive and seen the same.

 

However, I note that there was a full interview with Nicola Cortese on the 10th July in the Echo, of which only a snippet appeared on the website. Being outside the local Echo distribution area I, (and I suspect many others), never got to read that.

 

Does anyone have a copy and be in a situation to post the interview on here?

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I spoke to an ex Director last week who was pretty certain it was Crouch who paid the "pinnacle" deposit. This fits with information I was given previously about a certain account where the money came from and who the signatory of that account was.

 

Incidently he also confirmed that some of those with past connections to SLH were looking to take a box this season. Lowe was not one of them, many will be pleased to know.

 

You can only respect Leon Crouch for putting his money where his mouth is time and time again. Without his generosity SFC may well have folded.

 

Regarding ex directors having a box I think it's easy to tar them all with the same brush as Rupert Lowe. I am no fan of Guy Askham, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a box, and you cannot deny that him and his son are Saints fans. Both Guy and his son contributed financially to the club during the summer. You could argue that this is the least they should have done but the fact remains that they could have donated zilch like Rupert Lowe and Michael Wilde. They both surely deserve some credit for helping out.

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Does anyone else share the view that the so called "Pinnacle Bid" was a complte load of cobblers.

 

The only effect it had was to delay our subsequent Purchase by a time span of 4 - 5 weeks

 

We were VERY lucky that Leibherr was still interested

 

I'll go so far as to suggest that Pinnacle very nearly sent us to the wall ..... because IMHO ..... THEY HAD NO INTENTION AT ALL TO TAKE US OVER

 

The apology they put forward as "The Money Man" barely had £10.50 in an old TSB Account

 

SOMEBODY was trying to destroy us completely IMHO, ie Delay, Delay, Delay

 

Thanks to Pinnacle, Alan Pardew has a Mammoth task on his hands now

 

IMHO and what people have told me, you are wrong..

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