AP wants top 2 finish

[John B]

Agreed - new players (good players) needed FAST

 

Coaching set-up also needs to be concluded FAST (sounds like AP is struggling to juggle everything)

 

Despite having a new owner and more fan optomism, we are actually no better off then a few weeks back - in some respects much worse off.

 

- We have lost all our 'warm-up' matches (this will not help confidence)

- We have signed one player (ability unknown)

- We have a well respected manager who readily admits he is swamped

- Season starts in a couple of weeks

 

 

Fast is not always the best approach.

 

 

We have not lost all our warm up matches when the first team have been playing.

 

In fact it has only been in the last quarter when reserve team players have been involved that we have lost some of the matches

Edited 24 July, 2009 by John B

[Glasgow_Saint]

Fast is not always the best.

 

Neither is slow!

[John B]

Neither is slow!

 

You do seem to be a little impatient I suggest that you relax and let Alan Pardew deliver the goods.

[Glasgow_Saint]

You do seem to be a little impatient I suggest that you relax and let Alan Pardew deliver the goods.

 

Not impatient and still confident long term, just felt that perhaps a few more players (and coaching set-up) would be in place by now.

 

Don’t feel like we are best prepared for the start of the season and that makes me anxious (not impatient).

[John B]

Not impatient and still confident long term, just felt that perhaps a few more players (and coaching set-up) would be in place by now.

 

Don’t feel like we are best prepared for the start of the season and that makes me anxious (not impatient).

 

Pardew has only been here four days so give him a chance

 

You know the team better than him he is trying to work out which positions he needs new players for

[Third Division South Days]

Agreed - new players (good players) needed FAST

 

Coaching set-up also needs to be concluded FAST (sounds like AP is struggling to juggle everything)

 

Despite having a new owner and more fan optomism, we are actually no better off then a few weeks back - in some respects much worse off.

 

- We have lost all our 'warm-up' matches (this will not help confidence)

- We have signed one player (ability unknown)

- We have a well respected manager who readily admits he is swamped

- Season starts in a couple of weeks

 

That wasted exclusivity time with Pinnacle could cost some invaluable league points in the early matches

[Clifford Nelson]

Burley got slated for NOT having this attitude.

 

In our playoff season, even though we spent £8m, all he said was ''we'll see if we can make the top 6'' - even though we did, i admit we should have been pushing more for the top 2.

 

If your manager is ambitious, the players attitudes often follow..

 

If you ask people to achieve what they haven't got the potential to achieve they will only lose confidence and achieve even less than they could if managed well. That's the same for footballers as for anybody else. Maybe Burley was more aware of the realities.

 

It looks like everybody has fogotten that Michael Wilde told us that the aim last season was to reach the play-offs. I was a very high ambition, but it was also a ludicrous one, since we sent out the youth team to achieve it.

 

Motivational skills are, contrary to common beliefs, not an easy thing to acquire. Amongst football managers it is a fairly rare commodity. The managers who've got it usually do very well.

[Glasgow_Saint]

That wasted exclusivity time with Pinnacle could cost some invaluable league points in the early matches

 

agreed! Pinnacle suck ass!!

[Professor]

Contrary to what some people seem to think, SFC is NOT the 4th richest club in the land, or anything like it. Having a wealthy owner does not mean that the owner will pour millions into the football club. There will be a budget and the manager will have been given a strategy, which will include living within the club's income. If money is put into a transfer kitty you can be sure it will be carefully managed. ML did not get where he is today by allowing the managers of any of his businesses to spend the owner's money like water. That AP does not have to sell in order to fund the team is already a major step forward, and he will have to incur the cost of wages for signings he makes, but everything said so far suggests that to actually pay a fee is another step change that is not yet sanctioned.

[Thedelldays]

Contrary to what some people seem to think, SFC is NOT the 4th richest club in the land, or anything like it. Having a wealthy owner does not mean that the owner will pour millions into the football club. .

we know this...we are not stupid

[John B]

we know this...we are not stupid

 

Some probably are I would have thought

[Gingeletiss]

And some post as if they are!!!!!!!!.......it has been said a thousand times on here, about running a tight ship, yet some still insist we spend multiple millions on players. You wouldn't think we had just come out of 'Admin'!!!!

[Glasgow_Saint]

And some post as if they are!!!!!!!!.......it has been said a thousand times on here, about running a tight ship, yet some still insist we spend multiple millions on players. You wouldn't think we had just come out of 'Admin'!!!!

 

Who is saying we should be spending multiple millions?

[Thedelldays]

And some post as if they are!!!!!!!!.......it has been said a thousand times on here, about running a tight ship, yet some still insist we spend multiple millions on players. You wouldn't think we had just come out of 'Admin'!!!!

 

 

where have they said this exactly..?

 

just odd, when we could not rub two pennies together, the board were slated beyond belief for not "putting money into the team"...now we have probable funds at hand...the opposite view is taken it seems

[JustinR]

If John signs a new contract we have the one of or the best strikers in this league and with Davis we have the best keeper in this league, so i have faith becasuse im sure Harding will prove me wrong and be better then Mills and have a quality season with the rest of the back 4 hopefully containing Thomas and Perry and were have plently of clean sheets and with John plenty of goals.

 

Spot on IMO. I don't think we need to be as anxious as we are.... As far as I am aware, Leicester last year did not buy much, they simply managed to keep their Championship players on championship wages.

 

If we can do the same and work on the confidence- we should beat most teams in this league even without million pound signings.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Spot on IMO. I don't think we need to be as anxious as we are.... As far as I am aware, Leicester last year did not buy much, they simply managed to keep their Championship players on championship wages.

 

If we can do the same and work on the confidence- we should beat most teams in this league even without million pound signings.

 

We have not ‘done the same’ as Leicester. In fact we have released / lost and/or sold 7 1st team players since we were relegated and have Rasiak and Saga remaining almost against there will at the moment.

 

To suggest we can compete in this league by doing nothing is ridiculous.

 

I think with the exception of Stockport we have added to our squad the least.

 

Finally Leicester made a number of signings (mainly loans) last season

Edited 24 July, 2009 by Glasgow_Saint

[MusicMan]

If we are to do anything in this league then we need to toughen up else we are going to get kicked off the park. We need some players like Vinny Jones, Jim Holten, Norman Hunter or even dare I say Nigel Pearson. Players that could break your legs with just one look.

[Bearsy]

FMI when/where did AP say he's after a top 2 finish?

[Glasgow_Saint]

FMI when/where did AP say he's after a top 2 finish?

 

Murty and Harding have both made reference to this in recent interviews

[INFLUENCED.COM]

just odd, when we could not rub two pennies together, the board were slated beyond belief for not "putting money into the team"...now we have probable funds at hand...the opposite view is taken it seems

 

It goes beyond odd, we have been down for so long that the apathy became infectious, I think some believe they may upset the new owner by what they may post(as if) but ultimately I believe its a waiting game, ML wants success, those he has appointed will want success and the only sure fire way of obtaining that, on and off the pitch, will be by winning games and getting out of this league and beyond, only way we will be able to do that is by spending money its just about the financial methodology

[Matthew Le God]

-10 points off Leicester last season and they would have been 3rd. Only 1 point away from 2nd.

[Gingeletiss]

where have they said this exactly..?

 

just odd, when we could not rub two pennies together, the board were slated beyond belief for not "putting money into the team"...now we have probable funds at hand...the opposite view is taken it seems

 

Right DD............from the outset ML has stated that it will be run as a business. The club will only use revenue, that it generates, however, he also said that money would be made available, should the manager require it. Reading some posts on here 'we are forth richest club in the country' etc etc, aligned with a few over the past few days, alluding to why we should spend, rather than pick up free transfers. Leads one to believe that there are indeed, some stupid posters, who are calling for money to be spent on better quality players than Div 1, to enable us to get promoted.

 

Now my little skeptic friend, I know you are ashore at the moment, and appear to have a lot of time on your hands, so I'm sure you have a handle on most of the threads. This has been argued on quite a few of them.

[Mustapha Fag]

We've 28 currently on the books, and around at least 15 are not up to standard or possibly 'for the future'. If our 'JobCentre players' have to be on long term contracts, it is even more important to ensure that they are good enough to be here long term. It takes time to find them, and trial them.

 

Not true

You can give them a 1 year contract with option to extend (almost a years trial if you wish, certainly 6 months) then they either go for free next summer if not up to scratch or you sign them on for another 2 years

[John B]

Right DD............from the outset ML has stated that it will be run as a business. The club will only use revenue, that it generates, however, he also said that money would be made available, should the manager require it. Reading some posts on here 'we are forth richest club in the country' etc etc, aligned with a few over the past few days, alluding to why we should spend, rather than pick up free transfers. Leads one to believe that there are indeed, some stupid posters, who are calling for money to be spent on better quality players than Div 1, to enable us to get promoted.

 

Now my little skeptic friend, I know you are ashore at the moment, and appear to have a lot of time on your hands, so I'm sure you have a handle on most of the threads. This has been argued on quite a few of them.

 

Although I agree with what you are saying it is not unknown for teams to buy players to make the team better as we now have no payments on the Stadium there should be a surplus for players

[Johnny Shearer]

Burley got slated for NOT having this attitude.

 

In our playoff season, even though we spent £8m, all he said was ''we'll see if we can make the top 6'' - even though we did, i admit we should have been pushing more for the top 2.

 

If your manager is ambitious, the players attitudes often follow..

 

Spot on. I never understood why Burley kept insisting his aim were the play-offs instead of automatic promotion.

[John B]

Spot on. I never understood why Burley kept insisting his aim were the play-offs instead of automatic promotion.

 

Because we were not good enough for Automatic Promotion I would have thought.

 

 

Perhaps you should be realistic in your expectations to avoid continual disappointment

[Thedelldays]

Because we were not good enough for Automatic Promotion I would have thought.

 

 

Perhaps you should be realistic in your expectations to avoid continual disappointment

 

on your own if you think we were not good enough for automtic promotion that season

 

may i suggest you try to be a bit more ambitious and this club may have a chance

[John B]

on your own if you think we were not good enough for automtic promotion that season

 

may i suggest you try to be a bit more ambitious and this club may have a chance

 

Thank you that really made me laugh

[Thedelldays]

Thank you that really made me laugh

do you think burley achieved all he could here that season..or do you think somewhere along the way, he ****ed up..?

[Window Cleaner]

Fast is not always the best approach.

 

 

 

 

Ecclesiastes 9.11 ???

Much quoted by Gussie Fink Nottle in his Grammar School Speechday fiasco?

[John B]

do you think burley achieved all he could here that season..or do you think somewhere along the way, he ****ed up..?

 

Not really we got to the playoffs which I thought was OK

 

We played pretty well in the Play Off Games and with a bit of luck we could have won.

 

If Davis had played as well as did last season I think we may have gone up because I felt Bart was responsible for one of the goals at St Mary's through a lack of experience

 

 

However after that he should have sorted out the defence instead of bringing in John and Euell I know John scored lots of goals but so might Rasiak/Saga if they were given chances

[trousers]

If John signs a new contract we have the one of or the best strikers in this league and with Davis we have the best keeper in this league, so i have faith becasuse im sure Harding will prove me wrong and be better then Mills and have a quality season with the rest of the back 4 hopefully containing Thomas and Perry and were have plently of clean sheets and with John plenty of goals.

 

Not forgetting the important bit in the middle of the field too

[Wes Tender]

Ecclesiastes 9.11 ???

Much quoted by Gussie Fink Nottle in his Grammar School Speechday fiasco?

 

SPACE CORPS DIRECTIVE 34124:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"No officer with false teeth should attempt oral sex in zero gravity"

[Johnny Shearer]

Because we were not good enough for Automatic Promotion I would have thought.

 

 

Perhaps you should be realistic in your expectations to avoid continual disappointment

 

No need to impart your views on me like that - if you didn't think we could have been promoted thats your take.

 

I was being realistic IMO. Number of decent signings, manager who had a record of building decent passing sides. Did well with Ipswich. Number of decent young players coming through.

 

BUT as I pointed out Burley aimed low for the play-offs which most likely impacted on the players. Also Burley made some strange team decisions towards the end of that season.

[John B]

No need to impart your views on me like that - if you didn't think we could have been promoted thats your take.

 

I was being realistic IMO. Number of decent signings, manager who had a record of building decent passing sides. Did well with Ipswich. Number of decent young players coming through.

 

BUT as I pointed out Burley aimed low for the play-offs which most likely impacted on the players. Also Burley made some strange team decisions towards the end of that season.

 

I am sorry for my flipant comment but I just feel that peoples expectations are too high which leads to disappointment.

 

 

Whether it impacted on the players I dont know but we did have decent players but not outstanding which is the difference.

 

Our Promotion teams in both 1966 and 1978 did have outstanding players

[CB Fry]

I am sorry for my flipant comment but I just feel that peoples expectations are too high which leads to disappointment.

 

 

Whether it impacted on the players I dont know but we did have decent players but not outstanding which is the difference.

 

Our Promotion teams in both 1966 and 1978 did have outstanding players

 

 

At the end of the day Wilde/Crouch/Hone combined to give Burley the funds and support to achieve automatic promotion easily - a hell of a lot more resource than Burnley, Hull, Stoke and even Wolves and West Brom had in their promotion seasons.

 

Go back over the yards of newsprint on this campaign - Hone and co wanted promotion and budgeted for it. Seven million quid in CCC should give you the "outstanding players" you mention.

 

So its not about fans having unrealistic expectations. Its about Burley taking an automatic promotion set-up and turning into a last-day scrape into the play offs - he blew it.

 

Sick to death at people whining about fans. It isn't the fans fault if the manager fails.

[Johnny Shearer]

I am sorry for my flipant comment but I just feel that peoples expectations are too high which leads to disappointment.

 

 

Whether it impacted on the players I dont know but we did have decent players but not outstanding which is the difference.

 

Our Promotion teams in both 1966 and 1978 did have outstanding players

 

Fair enough.

 

I just think if the manager says play-offs your not going to be as motivated as to actually get automatic promotion.

 

To me it just seemed like Burley was setting a lower target therefore if we had gained 1st/2nd place he could have brought out the line, "Its more than we expected."

 

Set the target high is what I want. Whether its realistic or not is another thing and I guess we'll find over the next season.

[JustinR]

We have not ‘done the same’ as Leicester. In fact we have released / lost and/or sold 7 1st team players since we were relegated and have Rasiak and Saga remaining almost against there will at the moment.

 

To suggest we can compete in this league by doing nothing is ridiculous.

 

I think with the exception of Stockport we have added to our squad the least.

 

Finally Leicester made a number of signings (mainly loans) last season

 

I did not suggest "do nothing"... AP has already stated he will strenghten. The point is just that we have retained some players with a much higher standard than L1 so we neednt be so anxious.

[John B]

Fair enough.

 

I just think if the manager says play-offs your not going to be as motivated as to actually get automatic promotion.

 

To me it just seemed like Burley was setting a lower target therefore if we had gained 1st/2nd place he could have brought out the line, "Its more than we expected."

 

Set the target high is what I want. Whether its realistic or not is another thing and I guess we'll find over the next season.

 

Set targets which are realistic for the people involved it is no good giving targets which cannot be met otherwise people get turned off.

 

Give targets which can be achieved and give incentives for targets to be over achieved

 

 

I think is the best approach seems to work in business

[Glasgow_Saint]

I just feel that peoples expectations are too high which leads to disappointment.

 

How are expectations too high? The new owner has stated that his intentions are the premiership in a few years; we therefore need to be able to compete for this to be achievable.

 

The new owner has a lot of cash, we as fans are therefore naturally expecting him to finance his own ambition – correct?

 

Nobody is suggesting he spends millions, just expect to be competing for some of the more ‘top class’ players that maybe in or could be attracted to league 1.

 

To date we have signed one player – a free transfer whose ability is relatively unknown and we are now reading comments by AP to suggest that free signings are to be "looked into"

 

Look around at other teams in league 1

 

Brentford – signed 5 players

Brighton – 6

Carlisle United – 5

Exeter – 5

Milton Keynes Dons – 6

Huddersfield – 5

Norwich – 5

Oldham – 6

Swindon – 5

 

Southampton have released or sold 7 from 1st team squad last season and bought in only one!

[trousers]

How are expectations too high? The new owner has stated that his intentions are the premiership in a few years; we therefore need to be able to compete for this to be achievable.

 

The new owner has a lot of cash, we as fans are therefore naturally expecting him to finance his own ambition – correct?

 

Nobody is suggesting he spends millions, just expect to be competing for some of the more ‘top class’ players that maybe in or could be attracted to league 1.

 

To date we have signed one player – a free transfer whose ability is relatively unknown and we are now reading comments by AP to suggest that free signings are to be "looked into"

 

Look around at other teams in league 1

 

Brentford – signed 5 players

Brighton – 6

Carlisle United – 5

Exeter – 5

Milton Keynes Dons – 6

Huddersfield – 5

Norwich – 5

Oldham – 6

Swindon – 5

 

Southampton have released or sold 7 from 1st team squad last season and bought in only one!

 

You're forgetting that we're not allowed to air critical thoughts on here at the moment.

 

I believe the 'airing concerns' window officially opens on 3rd October with the fully fledged 'moaning and whinging' window opening on 25th November.

[Chez]

-10 points off Leicester last season and they would have been 3rd. Only 1 point away from 2nd.

 

to be fair they weren't as bad the season they went down from the ccc as we were and they retained all their players apart from Hume. They also bought wisely and the full squad had a full preseason together.

[Big Bad Bob]

How are expectations too high? The new owner has stated that his intentions are the premiership in a few years; we therefore need to be able to compete for this to be achievable.

 

The new owner has a lot of cash, we as fans are therefore naturally expecting him to finance his own ambition – correct?

 

Nobody is suggesting he spends millions, just expect to be competing for some of the more ‘top class’ players that maybe in or could be attracted to league 1.

 

To date we have signed one player – a free transfer whose ability is relatively unknown and we are now reading comments by AP to suggest that free signings are to be "looked into"

 

Look around at other teams in league 1

 

Brentford – signed 5 players

Brighton – 6

Carlisle United – 5

Exeter – 5

Milton Keynes Dons – 6

Huddersfield – 5

Norwich – 5

Oldham – 6

Swindon – 5

 

Southampton have released or sold 7 from 1st team squad last season and bought in only one!

 

but......those clubs have had, what 2 months. to do that. We've/AP has had 4 days!!

[krissyboy31]

How are expectations too high? The new owner has stated that his intentions are the premiership in a few years; we therefore need to be able to compete for this to be achievable.

 

The new owner has a lot of cash, we as fans are therefore naturally expecting him to finance his own ambition – correct?

 

Nobody is suggesting he spends millions, just expect to be competing for some of the more ‘top class’ players that maybe in or could be attracted to league 1.

 

To date we have signed one player – a free transfer whose ability is relatively unknown and we are now reading comments by AP to suggest that free signings are to be "looked into"

 

Look around at other teams in league 1

 

Brentford – signed 5 players

Brighton – 6

Carlisle United – 5

Exeter – 5

Milton Keynes Dons – 6

Huddersfield – 5

Norwich – 5

Oldham – 6

Swindon – 5

 

Southampton have released or sold 7 from 1st team squad last season and bought in only one!

 

FFS give the guy a chance!!! He's been in his job for a week and has NO backroom staff to help with the playing side whilst he tries to sort out who is staying/leaving and who he wants to sign. He knows what he needs and he knows who he wants but it's not as simple as picking them out of a school yard line-up, there are clubs, agents and the players themselves to negotiate with and one of the biggest reasons he is looking at the Bosman list is that it takes one of those parties out of the equation.

[egreog]

Agreed - new players (good players) needed FAST

 

Coaching set-up also needs to be concluded FAST (sounds like AP is struggling to juggle everything)

 

Despite having a new owner and more fan optomism, we are actually no better off then a few weeks back - in some respects much worse off.

 

- We have lost all our 'warm-up' matches (this will not help confidence)

- We have signed one player (ability unknown)

- We have a well respected manager who readily admits he is swamped

- Season starts in a couple of weeks

 

I think the first few games are gonna be a major reality check on how far things have slipped....I have no doubt that in the long term.......ie by January or February, Saints will be out of the bottom three, but realistically a play off place with the current players is pie in the sky............at least 3 or 4 new faces with grit, determination and a will to win attitude are required to turn this around...........

[John B]

How are expectations too high? The new owner has stated that his intentions are the premiership in a few years; we therefore need to be able to compete for this to be achievable.

 

The new owner has a lot of cash, we as fans are therefore naturally expecting him to finance his own ambition – correct?

 

Nobody is suggesting he spends millions, just expect to be competing for some of the more ‘top class’ players that maybe in or could be attracted to league 1.

 

To date we have signed one player – a free transfer whose ability is relatively unknown and we are now reading comments by AP to suggest that free signings are to be "looked into"

 

Look around at other teams in league 1

 

Brentford – signed 5 players

Brighton – 6

Carlisle United – 5

Exeter – 5

Milton Keynes Dons – 6

Huddersfield – 5

Norwich – 5

Oldham – 6

Swindon – 5

 

Southampton have released or sold 7 from 1st team squad last season and bought in only one!

 

I was talking in general about expectations

 

 

Last season about this time most peoples expectations I think were that SFC would finish 16th or above which seemed rather high.

[Glasgow_Saint]

but......those clubs have had, what 2 months. to do that. We've/AP has had 4 days!!

 

AP was appointed last Friday morning - that's 7 days!

 

Don't get me wrong - I dont blame AP (Far from it)

 

I'm just saying that we should expect more than we have - some are accusing me of being too ambitious

[Thedelldays]

I think the first few games are gonna be a major reality check on how far things have slipped....I have no doubt that in the long term.......ie by January or February, Saints will be out of the bottom three, but realistically a play off place with the current players is pie in the sky............at least 3 or 4 new faces with grit, determination and a will to win attitude are required to turn this around...........

it is not pie in the sky at all

 

are you awar of how terrible this league is..

 

many many of the teams would and do simply dream to have the facilities we have..the resources we have and some of the players we have..and more so, the manager we hae

 

yes we have fallen, but to suggest a good crack at the playoffs (which we will fall just short imo) is pie in the sky IS pie in the sky itself

 

WTF is wrong with some of you..?

[Big Bad Bob]

AP was appointed last Friday morning - that's 7 days!

 

Don't get me wrong - I dont blame AP (Far from it)

 

I'm just saying that we should expect more than we have - some are accusing me of being too ambitious

 

And the Football League work over the weekend don't they

[graymalkin33]

We'd need 90+ points, say 93, that's 31 wins, if we could get that many we could get beaten 15 times.However 31 wins is a lot, 28 wins,9 draws and 9 defeats would be my route-map for a 93 point finish.

 

I think you need considerably fewer than 9 defeats to be in top 2.

I would have said 3-4-5 defeats max to finish top 2 then with -10pts that gives us a playoff spot just.

 

Ofcourse we would be favourites to win that playoff because our form in the season would have been far superior to the others in the playoffs. Which again may not be a good thing.