Pardew is desperate - already

[S-Clarke]

if we have loads of money why are we just looking at freebees?

 

Read this line...

'' “There are players contracted to other clubs that I do feel would do well for Southampton.

 

“Some of those I’ve put in tentative approaches to say ‘If there is a possible situation where a player might move on from your club I would be interested.’ “But I’m focusing very much on the market where there’s no transfer fee at the moment. ''

 

Makes sense to snap up the best avaliable free's, rather than splashing the cash on a player who is possibly equal? he's doing it the right way round IMO.

[Wes Tender]

The situation was already there when he took over. The team had lost games and confidence and the boys were running around like headless chicken. He didn't manage to turn that around into avoiding relegation, but was that really a possibility in the first place?

 

Some managers are obviously better at it than others. They tend to be the better paid, more in demand ones as a result.

 

Wotte largely inherited the situation from Poorvliet, granted. JP spoiled a lot of the youngsters by playing too many of them together, too early, when a better manager would have introduced them into the team more gradually, blended them together with some more experienced players. Personally, I don't accept that it was entirely inevitable that relegation was the only result at the start of the last season, even allowing for the shortage of cash available.

[Give it to Ron]

well, if that is the case seeing as pardew is obviously far superior to wotte in every way...no real need to bring players in really then

 

So we dont need to replace Saejis, McGoldrick and Surman......well we all remember your post about Wotte keeping us up so you have no reason to diss him have you?

[Wes Tender]

Read this line...

'' “There are players contracted to other clubs that I do feel would do well for Southampton.

 

“Some of those I’ve put in tentative approaches to say ‘If there is a possible situation where a player might move on from your club I would be interested.’ “But I’m focusing very much on the market where there’s no transfer fee at the moment. ''

 

Makes sense to snap up the best avaliable free's, rather than splashing the cash on a player who is possibly equal? he's doing it the right way round IMO.

 

Furthermore, the absence of a transfer fee frees up the possibility that some of that money saved can be put towards paying higher wages to the player, an inducement for a better player to drop down a division, perhaps.

[JustMike]

Read this line...

 

'' “There are players contracted to other clubs that I do feel would do well for Southampton.

 

“Some of those I’ve put in tentative approaches to say ‘If there is a possible situation where a player might move on from your club I would be interested.’ “But I’m focusing very much on the market where there’s no transfer fee at the moment. ''

 

Makes sense to snap up the best avaliable free's, rather than splashing the cash on a player who is possibly equal? he's doing it the right way round IMO.

 

i agree, just misread it

[S-Clarke]

Furthermore, the absence of a transfer fee frees up the possibility that some of that money saved can be put towards paying higher wages to the player, an inducement for a better player to drop down a division, perhaps.

 

Exactly.

 

Also Loan's aren't exactly free either, the ''best'' loans command some sort of loan fee. What about Nathan Delfounsou (Sp?) from villa. He was linked to leeds a while back as part of a swap deal for Delph, but that died in the water.

[Gingeletiss]

Furthermore, the absence of a transfer fee frees up the possibility that some of that money saved can be put towards paying higher wages to the player, an inducement for a better player to drop down a division, perhaps.

 

Hurrah.......I've been waiting for this to be pointed out. I'd of done it myself, but didn't need a DD cryptic saying how wrong that would be. Thank you Wes.....

[sotonist]

Hurrah.......I've been waiting for this to be pointed out. I'd of done it myself, but didn't need a DD cryptic saying how wrong that would be. Thank you Wes.....

 

I think that's how we ended up with Jason Euell though.

[Gingeletiss]

I think that's how we ended up with Jason Euell though.

 

Maybe....but hands up who thought he would be a good signing!!!!

[Thedelldays]

I think that's how we ended up with Jason Euell though.

yep

[sotonist]

Maybe....but hands up who thought he would be a good signing!!!!

 

[Panda]

I look at it this way. Say I have a small business with bare bones in the way of staff. One of my customers comes along and says 'I want 1,000 units a week for the next 40 weeks and possibly beyond - can you deliver?' I say "Yes, of course!" and then I pick up the phone to the Job Centre because I am going to need five or six new people in quickly. Why? Obvious ... they are available NOW (no notice period or protracted negotiations, etc); they are not going to haggle too much over wages, a job is better than no job; they will not be necessarily out of work because they are useless, probably through bad luck with previous employers downsizing (or going out of business); some will will work out and stay a while, others will go but they will get me through the initial period.

 

Once I have my new players on board and we are beginning to deliver the goods I can take a good look at what I need long term, think about a strategy and then start to recruit good team players for the future.

 

In our position right now AP needs some experienced players and fast. It is not about lack of funds, it is not about lack of ambition, its about new faces NOW with experience and some ability at our current level. Once that is sorted then he can start to build with the players he really wants. I think it is a good strategy in the position he finds himself in.

[Calvin]

“The market that I’m focusing on now is the Bosman market, because I don’t want to lose the gems that are still floating around in that area, because they’re going to be gone soon,” he said.

 

Ok, here goes nothing....first cynical comment from me in this new world where such cynicism is frowned upon....

 

Am I the only one who smells something not quite right about this 'focus' on free transfers?

 

Ok, ok, I know he says that he isn't exclusively looking at frees but surely he should be looking at his squad and pinpointing what type of player and what calibre he needs for each position that is insufficiently equipped for a League 1 play-off push.

 

Once he's got his shortlist of players that he needs he should then either (a) invite them for a trial if they are free agents or (b) make a formal approach/bid to their current club.

 

Isn't this broader more inclusive approach better than an arbitrary ring-fencing of players that just happen to be available on a free transfer?

 

Identify the players you want first and foremost and then concern yourself with how 'free' they are?

 

No?

 

Anyway, back to the required level of positivity now. I apologise unreservedly for my indiscretion.

 

I know we are rich, but look at the reality side of things. Look at what league we are in

[Nineteen Canteen]

Ok, ok....I've already acknowledged that I got out of the wrong side of bed this morning....

 

I don't know, prod the basket of Devil's Advocacy on here and one gets crucified

 

Conciliatory marshmallow anyone?

 

Quite

[SFC Forever]

I look at it this way. Say I have a small business with bare bones in the way of staff. One of my customers comes along and says 'I want 1,000 units a week for the next 40 weeks and possibly beyond - can you deliver?' I say "Yes, of course!" and then I pick up the phone to the Job Centre because I am going to need five or six new people in quickly. Why? Obvious ... they are available NOW (no notice period or protracted negotiations, etc); they are not going to haggle too much over wages, a job is better than no job; they will not be necessarily out of work because they are useless, probably through bad luck with previous employers downsizing (or going out of business); some will will work out and stay a while, others will go but they will get me through the initial period.

 

Once I have my new players on board and we are beginning to deliver the goods I can take a good look at what I need long term, think about a strategy and then start to recruit good team players for the future.

 

In our position right now AP needs some experienced players and fast. It is not about lack of funds, it is not about lack of ambition, its about new faces NOW with experience and some ability at our current level. Once that is sorted then he can start to build with the players he really wants. I think it is a good strategy in the position he finds himself in.

 

+1

I think we are thinking along the same lines. Steady the boat and then look for the players to help us push on in the places most needed.

[Nineteen Canteen]

And to be fair I don't think AP would have come here without the promise of transfer funds.

 

No because he can probably afford not to work and was happy to look outside football.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Cheers. Fancy a marshmallow?

 

Depends how sharp the stick is you are roasting it with.

[dune]

No player is free - we still have to pay their wages!

 

There are many good bosmans who are free agents simply because their club can't afford to pay their wages.

 

It makes perfect sense for us to pay good wages for free players because we can afford to do it.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Some decent players are probably still available as their aspirations are too high. As the time gets closer to the season more realism may kick in.

 

Like Skacel who signed late with no pre season and wasn't fit, it is likely that any we sign, unless they have been particularly professional, will not be match fit.

 

With this in mind I would hope any signings from this source will be in the next week.

 

Just didn't expect it to last for 3 seasons, he looked very low in the water last season. Hope our signings are better than Skacel.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I think that's how we ended up with Jason Euell though.

 

Exactly! £400k signing on fee and 10k pw, 2 year contract thank you very much that's my pension topped up. Idiakez is another fine example.

 

Anyone motivated by stupid money need not apply as they are just as liable to take the p1ss as they are to perform. The only good thing about Rudi Skacel is that I didn't run out of fingers counting the number of decent performances he put in for Saints whereas Gillett passed him in a few months. Its players of his type we need not the journeyman show ponies.

[Toadhall Saint]

I look at it this way. Say I have a small business with bare bones in the way of staff. One of my customers comes along and says 'I want 1,000 units a week for the next 40 weeks and possibly beyond - can you deliver?' I say "Yes, of course!" and then I pick up the phone to the Job Centre because I am going to need five or six new people in quickly. Why? Obvious ... they are available NOW (no notice period or protracted negotiations, etc); they are not going to haggle too much over wages, a job is better than no job; they will not be necessarily out of work because they are useless, probably through bad luck with previous employers downsizing (or going out of business); some will will work out and stay a while, others will go but they will get me through the initial period.

 

Once I have my new players on board and we are beginning to deliver the goods I can take a good look at what I need long term, think about a strategy and then start to recruit good team players for the future.

 

In our position right now AP needs some experienced players and fast. It is not about lack of funds, it is not about lack of ambition, its about new faces NOW with experience and some ability at our current level. Once that is sorted then he can start to build with the players he really wants. I think it is a good strategy in the position he finds himself in.

 

Totally agree and very well put.

[Clifford Nelson]

if we have loads of money why are we just looking at freebees?

 

Come on, mate, you're a day behind the discussion. We've been there in spades already.

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

Debt free, wherever we may be, we're gonna buy everyone we see, and we don't give a **** about the transfer fee because we are the famous SFC

[St Landrew]

This new broom is really sweeping clean, All the fans know, and have known for bloody ages, that the squad which, last season was essentially the academy, plus a few faces, is despearately short on experience and leadership. The time-honoured wisdom is, you never put kids into a team unless it is doing excellently well, and can absorb their inexperience. Last season we had a team full of inexperienced kids, with a few players, who had seen better times, around their 30's. That isn't the way to play competitive football, and now the squad is even thinner.

 

Thank goodness AP isn't papering over the cracks, or suggesting Saints have the slimmest chance of doing anything spectacular in League One without a wholesale change. I think it's relatively safe to say that we're practically all with AP on this one.

 

EDIT: Having now read Panda's post, it explains the situation far better than I have. Excellent summation IMO.

Edited 24 July, 2009 by St Landrew

[Professor]

SFC was bought from SLH Ltd but SLH is still in administration and the Administrators have to distribute the money raised before they then wind up SLH. If the buyer of the football club immediately starts throwing money around, that will suggest to the creditors that £20m or £30m could have been raised from the sale instead of the £12m - £14m that is speculated. It may even be part of the deal that new investment is limited until the SLH winding up is complete and a decent period has passed.

 

Pardew clearly knows his job, but despite the well-meant advice on here, we should keep in mind that its being offered by people who don't know the facts under which he is working.

[JustMike]

Quite

 

trouble is, you do more than "prod" it :-)

[JustMike]

Come on, mate, you're a day behind the discussion. We've been there in spades already.

 

haha i realised that after i posted it ;-)

[Saint Fan CaM]

Just one observation to add to some good points already made. If ML was going to splash lots of cash surely he could have done so to keep Surman here (a player who wanted to stay and play for the club).

[pele]

SFC was bought from SLH Ltd but SLH is still in administration and the Administrators have to distribute the money raised before they then wind up SLH. If the buyer of the football club immediately starts throwing money around, that will suggest to the creditors that £20m or £30m could have been raised from the sale instead of the £12m - £14m that is speculated. It may even be part of the deal that new investment is limited until the SLH winding up is complete and a decent period has passed.

 

Pardew clearly knows his job, but despite the well-meant advice on here, we should keep in mind that its being offered by people who don't know the facts under which he is working.

 

The above is total rubbish and please can we change the title of this post as AP is not desperate but doing his job in a professional manner. Something we are not used to if you think about it!

[Wes Tender]

The above is total rubbish and please can we change the title of this post as AP is not desperate but doing his job in a professional manner. Something we are not used to if you think about it!

 

Quite right. Professor should realise that once the deal is done by the Administrator with the creditors, that is the end of the matter. We obviously shouldn't have been bought by a billionaire, as some people would want him to make huge cash injections into their businesses too.

 

And I also agree with you that the title of the thread is a bit shrill.

[John B]

Quite right. Professor should realise that once the deal is done by the Administrator with the creditors, that is the end of the matter. We obviously shouldn't have been bought by a billionaire, as some people would want him to make huge cash injections into their businesses too.

 

And I also agree with you that the title of the thread is a bit shrill.

 

 

I think we should let Pardew get on with rebuilding the team in a professional way.

 

It is going to take time probably but with SFC having no debt no shareholders and a united fanbase it should happen sooner than later

[Wes Tender]

I think we should let Pardew get on with rebuilding the team in a professional way.

 

It is going to take time probably but with SFC having no debt no shareholders and a united fanbase it should happen sooner than later

 

Agreed. Pardew seems to be doing everything right and saying everything right too. No criticisms from me so far. I particularly like the statement of ambition on the other thread.

[John B]

Agreed. Pardew seems to be doing everything right and saying everything right too. No criticisms from me so far. I particularly like the statement of ambition on the other thread.

 

Exactly he appears to be doing everything as I would have expected from an experienced manager.

 

 

It is shame he did not arrive a month earlier as I think we would be in such a better shape but that is in the past

[Wes Tender]

Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

[eelpie]

I look at it this way. Say I have a small business with bare bones in the way of staff. One of my customers comes along and says 'I want 1,000 units a week for the next 40 weeks and possibly beyond - can you deliver?' I say "Yes, of course!" and then I pick up the phone to the Job Centre because I am going to need five or six new people in quickly. Why? Obvious ... they are available NOW (no notice period or protracted negotiations, etc); they are not going to haggle too much over wages, a job is better than no job; they will not be necessarily out of work because they are useless, probably through bad luck with previous employers downsizing (or going out of business); some will will work out and stay a while, others will go but they will get me through the initial period.

 

Once I have my new players on board and we are beginning to deliver the goods I can take a good look at what I need long term, think about a strategy and then start to recruit good team players for the future.

 

In our position right now AP needs some experienced players and fast. It is not about lack of funds, it is not about lack of ambition, its about new faces NOW with experience and some ability at our current level. Once that is sorted then he can start to build with the players he really wants. I think it is a good strategy in the position he finds himself in.

 

But your Jobcentre staff can be released when the crisis is over. Saints will have around 40 players on their books including fifteen on long term contracts they cannot sell by the time AP gets in the players he wants.

[Gordon Mockles]

Yes in general most players released and not yet picked up will be crap and/or not good enough for my team. clearly there will be a few exceptions, but I was writing a general assumption not 100% fact.

 

My point was more that signing the best player from 2 or 3 teams would be more productive than buying players needing a 2nd chance.

 

Fair enough. Generally, there are exceptions but I'd say 75 - 80% are, as you state, probably cr*p. Whilst I have a point, I reflected on the 'British Players out of contract' and tend to agree with you that most are out of contract for a reason. Wages or ability mainly.

[Baird of the land]

A lot of players who are free agents are released because clubs who might otherwise want to keep them can't afford to pay them wages over the summer when they get no turnover. That's why you'll see a lot of smaller teams have huge squad revisions as they only keep a smaller core of players. There's plenty of decent players available on frees. maybe not marqee signings but what saints need are some decent senior professionals who can help bring on the still talented youngsters.

[trousers]

please can we change the title of this post as AP is not desperate

 

The thread title was Echoing the Echo headline rather than being an original statement by the thread author.

 

I do believe.

[Gordon Mockles]

Provoked? Your very existence seems to me to be a conspiracy theory.

 

IMO, Mt Liebherr will not spend money this club has not earned and therefore follow the doctrine of his father. Having a rich owner does not make us a wealthy club and it's ironic a year ago if we had sold our experienced players like we have and went scratching around for Bosman's there would have been uproar.

 

Seems Hypochondriac is now saying had Lowe last year told us we had no chance in our first game and that we had no money to spend he would have been perfectly happy. Its ok to be sh*t as long as the manager is honest and tells us we are sh*t - all managers and chairman past and present please take note.

 

I wonder if Pardew will bring in Vincent Pericard who was released by Stoke. Pericard must be one of the best strikers around as the Messiah Pearson brought him in! Go on Alan be a trooper you know you want to....

 

there is an element of TROLL in this post

 

I've amended your post for you! Typo!

 

Whilst being encouraged to swing from the Itchen Bridge. Waiting for long term success is dependent on having a patient and supportive fan base. Not running before you can walk most of our team like last year have only just learned to walk. Times change as TDD said.

 

Once again, the old and unwelcome Lowe attitude of making barbed comments toward the fans. We're trying to flush away that arrogant scorn (down that toilet with the old regime and their fundamentally flawed & failed strategies!) so let it go. A bright new dawn and all that...

 

As you say, waiting for long term success is "dependent on having a patient and supportive fan base". In my post above I illustrated the justified cynicism towards the old regime. They couldn't do much more wrong. However, like most of the club predecessors (boards and management), Pardew and Liebherr will be supported based upon their actions and decisions. It's only when poor decisions are consistently made, chairmen meddle in areas outside of their knowledge/competency and the fan base are disregarded and treated with utter scorn, combined with the poor, uncommitted and clueless performances on the football pitch...that's when the fans have their patience tested. FWIW, I think our fans have been incredibly patient and restrained considering the treatment over the past years. Only now are people uncovering (and revealing) the full extent of the blunder years - The disastrous tenure of Lowe Wilde and how they very nearly destroyed our once proud and great football club.

 

[N.B. I am now adopting "The Blunder Years" as the title for the Lowe and Lowe/Wilde tenures collectively.]

[Nineteen Canteen]

I've amended your post for you! Typo!

 

 

 

Once again, the old and unwelcome Lowe attitude of making barbed comments toward the fans. We're trying to flush away that arrogant scorn (down that toilet with the old regime and their fundamentally flawed & failed strategies!) so let it go. A bright new dawn and all that...

 

As you say, waiting for long term success is "dependent on having a patient and supportive fan base". In my post above I illustrated the justified cynicism towards the old regime. They couldn't do much more wrong. However, like most of the club predecessors (boards and management), Pardew and Liebherr will be supported based upon their actions and decisions. It's only when poor decisions are consistently made, chairmen meddle in areas outside of their knowledge/competency and the fan base are disregarded and treated with utter scorn, combined with the poor, uncommitted and clueless performances on the football pitch...that's when the fans have their patience tested. FWIW, I think our fans have been incredibly patient and restrained considering the treatment over the past years. Only now are people uncovering (and revealing) the full extent of the blunder years - The disastrous tenure of Lowe Wilde and how they very nearly destroyed our once proud and great football club.

 

[N.B. I am now adopting "The Blunder Years" as the title for the Lowe and Lowe/Wilde tenures collectively.]

 

Good for you , carry on.

[kpturner]

and please can we change the title of this post as AP is not desperate

Do you make a habit of advertising your lack of intelligence in public? Read the link provided in the OP.

[pele]

No only to you Kpturner........I am human and therefore missed the link...obviously you are not human maybe subhuman or even possibly a skate!!! Sorry but your last post was somewhat rude so go .....

[pele]

and further to this you misquoted the Echo anyway - 'Alan Pardew desperate to make signings for Southampton' which is somewhat different to yours 'Pardew is desperate already' which is even more contentious (look it up Kp) than the Echos!!!!

Edited 25 July, 2009 by pele