Is the Premiership the promised land for the Saints?

[Long Shot]

I have read with interest LeGod's 2nd Coming's excellent thread on the state of football in this country and the greed of the Premiership and was struck by how many posters now seem to almost want to avoid competing in the top flight ever again. Certainly if you lose the soul of the club you love to an anonymous billionaire who turns it into a calling card onto the world stage where is the pleasure and the pide?

 

With all this in mind perhaps a poll along the lines - do you want promotion to the Premiership and its riches a la Man City (A) or would you prefer to be in the CCC, solvent and watching local lads play half decent football a la Crewe (B)?

 

 

There was a time when the 1st Div/Premiership for me was the Holy Grail and I regarded it as our rightful home but things have changed so much in the last few years (even days) I am not so sure. Against Birmingham in the Carling Cup last week I felt the exhileration I first experienced as a nipper on the Milton wall watching Mick Channon surge down the wing, I felt the same thrill when I first witnessed MLT's first little shimmy when he sent Man Utd crashing out of the League Cup. Surely that is what it should still be about?

 

So how about it Mods? I sense a turning of the tide.

 

So, I vote for option B

[dubai_phil]

I have read with interest LeGod's 2nd Coming's excellent thread on the state of football in this country and the greed of the Premiership and was struck by how many posters now seem to almost want to avoid competing in the top flight ever again. Certainly if you lose the soul of the club you love to an anonymous billionaire who turns it into a calling card onto the world stage where is the pleasure and the pide?

 

With all this in mind perhaps a poll along the lines - do you want promotion to the Premiership and its riches a la Man City (A) or would you prefer to be in the CCC, solvent and watching local lads play half decent football a la Crewe (B)?

 

 

There was a time when the 1st Div/Premiership for me was the Holy Grail and I regarded it as our rightful home but things have changed so much in the last few years (even days) I am not so sure. Against Birmingham in the Carling Cup last week I felt the exhileration I first experienced as a nipper on the Milton wall watching Mick Channon surge down the wing, I felt the same thrill when I first witnessed MLT's first little shimmy when he sent Man Utd crashing out of the League Cup. Surely that is what it should still be about?

 

So how about it Mods? I sense a turning of the tide.

 

So, I vote for option B

 

Wouldn't want to be just a Crewe. Life HAS to be about HOPE, and so must football.

What would be a BETTER option is to dream that we could produce OUR team that could from time to time upset the applecart and rub a few wealthy noses in the sh*t. To accept only mundane survival al la Crewe would not be it and we would very quickly fade to obscurity with crowds of around 10-12,000

[Weston Saint]

When I started going in '67 I saw the likes of Charlton, Best, Bell, Summerbee, Cooke among many other and of course our own Paine Sydnham and Davies. It was a balanced playing field and we could beat anyone on our day and more than often did

 

Now television gives me a chance to see all the present stars almost whenever I like. Television has also made the rich richer to the detrement to many others.

 

I still want to see my team live and in the flesh. I want to see the movement all over the pitch that television cannot provide but I want to see my team with a good chance of picking up the points and scoring goals.

 

This young team, given time could get us promoted but that is where the fun will likely stop, and it is fun watching. It is not life or death.

 

So for me at present option B is favourite.

[Ken Tone]

Wouldn't want to be just a Crewe. Life HAS to be about HOPE, and so must football.

What would be a BETTER option is to dream that we could produce OUR team that could from time to time upset the applecart and rub a few wealthy noses in the sh*t. To accept only mundane survival al la Crewe would not be it and we would very quickly fade to obscurity with crowds of around 10-12,000

 

 

Yes there has to be hope. So whilst there is prmotion to a premiership-like league available ,we have to be able to hope to do it. If however the league was carved up again with say the top half or third of the premiership playing in a european league instead, and the bottom half or 2 thirds re-joining the football league ,with no automatic promotion to Europe, I'm not sure I'd be too bothered.

 

If we were winning the football league championship as a competition in its own right, against the likes of pompey, Birmingham, Blackburn , Bolton, maybe even Spurs or Villa, etc whilst the armchair fans watch Man U play AC Milan in Thailand on the telly, for the fourth time that season, I'd be fairly happy.

 

K.

[eelpie]

Ambitions and the elements of competition are crucial. Without them we will deteriorate. Things never stay the same. Either we progress or we go backwards (like Crewe). If we should be promoted (which is not impossible if we could ever achieve a few years of relative stability) we get at least one year's financial security. It may be our only long term hope of survival. And we might enjoy seeing our local talent stay longer with Saints.

 

But yes, I am enjoying most of the Championship matches much of the time - meanwhile!

[SuperMikey]

As much as i'd like to say A to make people more interested in the club again, I don't want them to be. I love the club how it is, with our local lads going out and playing football. Ok, so we don't have players who we've spent millions on strutting their stuff on the pitch, and we don't win week in, week out ala Chelsea, but I don't want us to. I love the club just the way it is and I don't really want us to get promoted back to the Premiership, because then all the plastic fans will come back in through the doors, fans who say they support the club, but are only interested in the premiership status.

This transfer window has really put football into perspective for me, hell, I don't care if we get relegated and end up playing Eastleigh (and probably losing) in the league. What matters is that the club has soul and the fans have so much passion, and that is why I love SFC. And I can't help but feel that if we did get promoted to the prem and get taken over and have millions pumped into the system that all that would be destroyed.

 

So, in conclusion, B.

[Long Shot]

Ambitions and the elements of competition are crucial. Without them we will deteriorate. Things never stay the same. Either we progress or we go backwards (like Crewe). If we should be promoted (which is not impossible if we could ever achieve a few years of relative stability) we get at least one year's financial security. It may be our only long term hope of survival. And we might enjoy seeing our local talent stay longer with Saints.

 

But yes, I am enjoying most of the Championship matches much of the time - meanwhile!

 

Perhaps Crewe are the wrong comparison (made because of their Academy success) but the trouble with comparisons today we are in a whole new ball game. Progress always was the Premiership for sure but because of what is has become do we want it?

[Rocker268]

Option B anyday for me I would rather us not be in the threat of administration but I have felt since we got relegated the Fizzy Pop leagues are better as any team can beat another and teams such as Bristol City last year can have their moment of glory with the full belief it will last all season, but it can be the same at the bottom where there is a season long struggle to avoid the drop between 5 or 6 teams at least, none of whom should go down as they have won a fair few games themselves, to see a team play with pride is better than any over paied nancy boys running around

[true-saint-keit]

The problem is we wouldn't receive the riches - ala Man City, we'd be one of at least 15 teams that have to fight for scraps.

[ottery st mary]

Still a hopeless football romantic. We will get promoted this season and I am due to win the Euromillions and watch Saints against the big boys, from my own suite with nickh, Alpine,Professor,Saint Charlie and a few of my other friends as my guests each home game.

[dubai_phil]

OK that's enough of this romantic dreaming krap

 

The LAST thing we actually want is our "leadership" at SMS reading these threads and deciding to pander to the fans wishes and giving us mundaneness and keeping going like we are with no money.

 

Rupert - get on the phone to Dubai (try google) - you KNOW you can get them to try it the "bottom up way" because that is how this city was born - that's your competitive begging letter advantage.

 

Get them in, get the job as Chairman with your "total football from the bottom up" and with THEIR money and invest their zillions in bringing through hundreds of local kids every year. You know it makes sense:-)

[saintjinksie]

Man United have always had a good youth system and that is the way to keep good player coming through, i.e. scholes, giggs et al. I think as long as the way the club is run is sustainable I dont see the problem with spending big money. the way Chelsea spend money is not sustainable, because they are building debt, whereas Arsenal are trying to become well run and make profit. i heard the Hull chairman the other day that they are technically the richest club in the prem, by virtue of having no debt.

[Redondo Saint]

The game has changed since Sky bought Div 1, and has now further changed since it has become a plaything for billionaires.

 

Personally I would prefer the top 5 wealthiest clubs to bugger off and join a world super league. The rest can then go back to normal, but let's have some limits to how much can be spent on players wages, transfers, etc.

 

In other words, take the game back to being a sport, where any team on its day can beat any one - maybe that's where we are today and accept the Premiership is a roller coaster ride unless you are owned by a billionaire?

 

Who knows, maybe supporting non league would be more enjoyable.

[offix]

Option A please.

[aintforever]

I agree that money is ruining the game but it's a simple case of if you can't beat them join them. I would love to have a dodgy russian billionare plough his cash into the club.

[Redondo Saint]

I agree that money is ruining the game but it's a simple case of if you can't beat them join them. .

 

trouble is, there are not many opportunities to join them, let alone beat them.

[sad saints fan]

definitely option b for me

[Thedelldays]

of course the premiership is the promised land....why bother in the playoffs/hate derby after may 2007???

[um pahars]

How about thinking back 4+ years ago when we were happily ensconsed in the top flight, and then imagine yourself being given the following choices:

 

a) Would you rather we continued to ply our trade in the Premiership, or

 

b) Would you prefer it that we were relegated?

 

I just don't believe there would have been many b's then!!!

[Thedelldays]

How about thinking back 4+ years ago when we were happily ensconsed in the top flight, and then imagine yourself being given the following choices:

 

a) Would you rather we continued to ply our trade in the Premiership, or

 

b) Would you prefer it that we were relegated?

 

I just don't believe there would have been many b's then!!!

indeed...why all the hatred for rupes if option B is the prefered...we should be thanking old gammon cheeks

[The Godfather]

Only if we get a multi-million ound backer.

[Redondo Saint]

How about thinking back 4+ years ago when we were happily ensconsed in the top flight, and then imagine yourself being given the following choices:

 

a) Would you rather we continued to ply our trade in the Premiership, or

 

b) Would you prefer it that we were relegated?

 

I just don't believe there would have been many b's then!!!

 

Agreed, but.. the premiership is even more dominated by mega money, average premiership players cost 6 million and want 40k per week, and ticket prices are very high.

 

It's not sustainable without huge backers.

 

Is promotion followed by immediate relegation a fun season?

[Colinjb]

Sport exists for one reason, to compete with the aim of winning. If you forgoe that chance you remove it's original purpose.

 

If Man City, a club that 10 years ago was playing stockport in the league can become the richest in world football then Saints can one day be league champions.

 

Football is cyclical, like all sport. Our time will come again.

[Papa Shango]

Agreed, but.. the premiership is even more dominated by mega money, average premiership players cost 6 million and want 40k per week, and ticket prices are very high.

 

It's not sustainable without huge backers.

 

Is promotion followed by immediate relegation a fun season?

 

No, but there's no guarantee we'll be relegated. We'll almost certainly struggle, but we did that nearly every year in the 1990s, and personally I found those seasons a million times better than any we've had in the Championship. I'd take finishing 17th in the Premiership every year over anything in the Championship.

[Professor]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the option of the Prem taken away for clubs such as Saints anyway. How long before they start proposing the end of relegation and promotion to and from the CCC?

I can see the Prem arguing that too many clubs that go up stay up for such a short time, that the CCC standard is not good enough and the Prem clubs supporting it because they have spent so much money to get there that they don't want to risk it all being wasted when they go down. Fact is, however much they all spend, 3 of them finish as the bottom 3.

[saintman]

The downside is the matchday experience, the buzz of a packed SMS makes for such a brilliant atmosphere, only time weve experienced that in the last couple of years was last game of last season

[Redondo Saint]

There may well be the day that each club becomes a franchise owned by wealthy individuals. Money will decide which team stays in whatever league they chose.

 

Just look at sport in the USA. The NFL and NBA have no teams relegated or promoted.

The only important thing is TV audiences and possibly the finals (more TV revenue!).

In my opinion it's a circus.

 

Listen to Man City's Exec Chairman (Garry Cook) and he is already planting the seed....

[Saint Paul C]

The easiest fix is for all teams in the same league to get EXACTLY the same amount of TV revenue. This table clearly demonstrates the problem

 

Manchester United £49.3m

Chelsea £45.6m

Arsenal £47m

Liverpool £45.4m

Everton £42.1m

Aston Villa £42.3m

Blackburn Rovers £40.2m

Portsmouth £40.4m

Manchester City £39.7m

West Ham United £36.8m

Tottenham Hotspur £36m

Newcastle United £39.2m

Middlesbrough £34.2m

Wigan Athletic £33.4m

Sunderland £33.6m

Bolton Wanderers £32m

Fulham £31.3m

Reading £30.6m

Birmingham City £29.8m

Derby County £29.1m

 

The financial differences would therefore only be gate receipts, prize money and brand related commercial activities.

 

Champions league so be what it is - a competition for European league champions.

 

UEFA cup should be for the winners of the domestic challenge cup.

 

Simple really.

[Mmm Donuts]

I'd go with the premiership again.

 

The thing is, how long will the premiership be the top league? Surely the top 'super' clubs will break away and form a Euro or even World series. That will be a completely different brand from the domestic leagues. Will some of the money then leave the premiership? I also wonder how long it will be before major companies will start to own football clubs and actually brand them within their corporate umbrella.

[Charlie Wayman]

By 2010, promotion to and relegation from the 'Premier" league will cease. Who knows what the future of football will be in this country but for sure the face of football has changed irrevocably since the Man City takeover. It looks increasingly like a Premiership or whatever the new branding will call it of 10, maybe 12 teams only. There is no future there for humble little Southampton so what are we to strive for? If we are left with a rump of two top tiers of 16 clubs called Division 1 & 2 will we even make it to league 1 and will anybody care or even watch except the doggedly faithful? But, how long will even they turn up to watch Windass, Euell and their like?

[Secret Site Agent]

The way I see it, (and I have commented on this several times,) is that i compare it to the game, FM,(insert your favorite year here).

You can choose to play one of the big 4, with plenty cash, and become bored because you win most games and it is too easy. Or you could pick a team like Eastliegh and, with a real challenge and no money, try to improve and expand, and find it more enjoyable.

In the CC anyone can win, there are six slots to play for, four of which need another push. There is plenty to play for, more fun and a young lad can come onto the stage and wow the crowd. It is also more enjoyable than the premiership. If only a cable channel, properly organised, could, with assistaqnce from the CC clubs, have a go at promoting proper TV rights. Also, with all the money in the Premiership, there should be a BIGGER levy of money to filter it down to grass roots.

 

I know it is a dream, but it isn't a bad dream, and it is mine. So be nice.

[Secret Site Agent]

The easiest fix is for all teams in the same league to get EXACTLY the same amount of TV revenue. This table clearly demonstrates the problem

 

Manchester United £49.3m

Chelsea £45.6m

Arsenal £47m

Liverpool £45.4m

Everton £42.1m

Aston Villa £42.3m

Blackburn Rovers £40.2m

Portsmouth £40.4m

Manchester City £39.7m

West Ham United £36.8m

Tottenham Hotspur £36m

Newcastle United £39.2m

Middlesbrough £34.2m

Wigan Athletic £33.4m

Sunderland £33.6m

Bolton Wanderers £32m

Fulham £31.3m

Reading £30.6m

Birmingham City £29.8m

Derby County £29.1m

 

The financial differences would therefore only be gate receipts, prize money and brand related commercial activities.

 

 

 

Champions league so be what it is - a competition for European league champions.

 

UEFA cup should be for the winners of the domestic challenge cup.

 

Simple really.

 

And add this to my answer as well.

[dubai_phil]

Perhaps the main issue in the PL is that there really isn't much else to play for.

 

Perhaps they should take a leaf out of the egg chasers book.

 

Champions are the champions but then the top 8 go into play-offs for big bucks tv money and the prize of the 4th Champions League qualifying slot. If the play-offs are won by one of the top 3 the place goes to the 4th in the league.

 

While most times it would be won by the big guns, it would at least give MORE tv revenue (to share 30% qualifiers, 30% rest of PL, 30% rest of FL, 10% "grass roots")

It would also give more meaning to the top half of the PL.

 

I know, silly idea that just gives the top guys more money but..

[Scudamore]

All i want from supporting Saints is a bit of excitement...

 

And whilst last years relegation survival last day certainly comes under that category i'd far rather we were getting stuck into a promotion bid...and the ultimate in excitement that comes with a promotion bid being actually getting promoted. Which leads us back to the Prem. May not be all it's cracked up to be when we get there but has to be the aim...

 

Had some Chelsea and Arsenal fans telling me how gutted they were when they didn't win the Champions League final...i pointed out to them that they should try experiencing the fun of relegation...not only is it sh:t at the time but you then have the fun of knowing that the next season(s) will be sh:t as well...

[OldNick]

it is business first and so Man U etc dont care if the English leagues falter as ther'll always be a place in the world game for them and the other mighty hitters.Man c will dwarf all the other clubs for a few years and their will be massive player fee values.Ronaldo will be worht double h3e was last week etc etc. The big 4 will not like another club coming to the party and soon they will lok at ways to try and marginalise Man City to get rid of the competition.

All of a sudden there will not be a guarenteed spot in the CL for the 4 and so they will start to worry as the money from that is massive to their revenue flow,

[Hatch]

A thrilling 1-0 against Man Utd beats ten 1-0 wins against Doncaster, Plymouth, etc etc....

 

Option A.

 

When I am on my deathbed I will remember the 6-3 man Utd game and not the 1-0 last week at Derby.

[OldNick]

Still a hopeless football romantic. We will get promoted this season and I am due to win the Euromillions and watch Saints against the big boys, from my own suite with nickh, Alpine,Professor,Saint Charlie and a few of my other friends as my guests each home game.

That is a very generous offer. Can I take a money voucher instead?.....only kidding OSM.

[OldNick]

A thrilling 1-0 against Man Utd beats ten 1-0 wins against Doncaster, Plymouth, etc etc....

 

Option A.

 

When I am on my deathbed I will remember the 6-3 man Utd game and not the 1-0 last week at Derby.

That is true, the Derby fans will recall their 1-0 victories against the big 4 last season.We would be less able to cope than they were at present. I care not to see our club embarrassed on national tv again it has happened too often in the past.

[Scudamore]

That is true, the Derby fans will recall their 1-0 victories against the big 4 last season.We would be less able to cope than they were at present. I care not to see our club embarrassed on national tv again it has happened too often in the past.

 

Well that's a bit defeatist...i'd rather try and fail than not try at all...

[dubai_phil]

That is true, the Derby fans will recall their 1-0 victories against the big 4 last season.We would be less able to cope than they were at present. I care not to see our club embarrassed on national tv again it has happened too often in the past.

 

TBH, unless we get that White Witch back to exorcise the curse of Sky, don't think it matters who we play, how much we spent or what league we are in, we know we'll be kr*p and embarrassed 90+% of the games.

 

Which, considering that nowadays EVERY PL game is shown on live tv around the world (if not in UK) means we'll be screwed if we did go up.

 

:-)

[hughieslastminutegoal]

As much as i'd like to say A to make people more interested in the club again, I don't want them to be. I love the club how it is, with our local lads going out and playing football. Ok, so we don't have players who we've spent millions on strutting their stuff on the pitch, and we don't win week in, week out ala Chelsea, but I don't want us to. I love the club just the way it is and I don't really want us to get promoted back to the Premiership, because then all the plastic fans will come back in through the doors, fans who say they support the club, but are only interested in the premiership status.

This transfer window has really put football into perspective for me, hell, I don't care if we get relegated and end up playing Eastleigh (and probably losing) in the league. What matters is that the club has soul and the fans have so much passion, and that is why I love SFC. And I can't help but feel that if we did get promoted to the prem and get taken over and have millions pumped into the system that all that would be destroyed.

 

So, in conclusion, B.

 

I wish it were a case of watching "local lads" but increasingly the Academies are full up with kids from abroad, or scouted from other cities. Other young players are bought from other smaller clubs. One or two who reach the first team might be genuinely local. Obviously it's nice to see young players from the youth team or reserves reach the first team, but let's not kid ourselves that they are necessarily "local".

 

And that transfer window has a lot to answer for. The windows are short, and MUST be leading to spur-of-the moment, and at times desperate, signings often driving up fees because of silly last-minute bidding.

 

Before these windows, you could take more time to watch and assess a player during the season before you signed him, and negotiate a transfer without some unseemly free-for-all scramble to outbid everyone else because the window is shutting. If you failed to get player 1, you had watched players 2, 3 or 4 and again could take time negotiating.

 

The window was brought in under the mistaken notion that it mitigates against the richer clubs buying their way out of trouble if things are not immediately going right. It has had the opposite effect. The richer clubs just make sure they have more than enough players to start with, and the less well off struggle through, if they are lucky with an emergency loan or two, until the next window, when they then see fees pushed up out of proportion to a players real worth.

 

Rich clubs can afford to buy a few duds by buying on reputation. Clubs like Saints really cannot afford that luxury and must make every purchasing pound count by making sure as best they can that the players they buy are the right ones. These stupid windows do not help them to do it.

 

So I would want to watch the highest level football Saints can reach, but under a system that makes it possible for clubs to strive to attain and stand a chance of retaining Premiership football without having to threaten the very existence of the club just to cling on in there.

[scooby]

With all this in mind perhaps a poll along the lines - do you want promotion to the Premiership and its riches a la Man City (A) or would you prefer to be in the CCC, solvent and watching local lads play half decent football a la Crewe (B)?

 

I can't imagine any true fan wanting to remain mired in the mickey mouse, with the threat of administration constantly hanging about our head. I don't remember you clowns wishing wistfully to be relegated to watch dire football when Lord Lowe had us flying high in the promised land.

[Weston Super Saint]

I can't imagine any true fan wanting to remain mired in the mickey mouse, with the threat of administration constantly hanging about our head. I don't remember you clowns wishing wistfully to be relegated to watch dire football when Lord Lowe had us flying high in the promised land.

 

Don't worry, your lot will get relegated soon, and you'll change your opinion then.

[Arizona]

I have read with interest LeGod's 2nd Coming's excellent thread on the state of football in this country and the greed of the Premiership and was struck by how many posters now seem to almost want to avoid competing in the top flight ever again. Certainly if you lose the soul of the club you love to an anonymous billionaire who turns it into a calling card onto the world stage where is the pleasure and the pide?

 

With all this in mind perhaps a poll along the lines - do you want promotion to the Premiership and its riches a la Man City (A) or would you prefer to be in the CCC, solvent and watching local lads play half decent football a la Crewe (B)?

 

 

There was a time when the 1st Div/Premiership for me was the Holy Grail and I regarded it as our rightful home but things have changed so much in the last few years (even days) I am not so sure. Against Birmingham in the Carling Cup last week I felt the exhileration I first experienced as a nipper on the Milton wall watching Mick Channon surge down the wing, I felt the same thrill when I first witnessed MLT's first little shimmy when he sent Man Utd crashing out of the League Cup. Surely that is what it should still be about?

 

So how about it Mods? I sense a turning of the tide.

 

So, I vote for option B

 

Option A any day of the week.

 

Being in the CCC, and knowing that as soon as you get a player that is half decent he will be off, is just soul destroying. In the Prem you do get the same but to a far lesser extent. I know we lost Bridge to Chelsea and Richards to Spuds but we did hang on to a lot of very good players for a long time.

 

Overall the quality of football in the Prem is far better. If someone where to ask me my favourite Saints memories, I'd think of the 3-2 games against the Arse, Pahars against the Skates and Beattie's last minute winner against Manure. It would probably be several hours before I mention beatting Scunny 1-0 at home last season, or the amazing tallents of Bradley Wright-Phillips.

 

Going 3-0 up against Brum and Rasiak's last minute winner at Pride Park are the only CCC memories which can come close.

[scooby]

Don't worry, your lot will get relegated soon, and you'll change your opinion then.

 

Only you would wish us to be relegated to league one. Anything to be rid of Lord Lowe? Disgusting.

[Weston Super Saint]

Only you would wish us to be relegated to league one. Anything to be rid of Lord Lowe? Disgusting.

 

LOL

 

I doubt he'd go even if we went down to League 1.

[GreenTreeFrog]

It is an interesting question but I do think peoples opinion on this change as our circumstances do. That is natural, and not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make me a bit dubious of those fans that claim to be ‘happy’ to stay in this league.

 

There was an excellent thread a few months back on much the same topic (Championship v Premiership) and I must admit it did surprise me how many genuine and varied arguments people gave for wanting to stay in the championship. I still think those same fans would be celebrating if we scraped through the play offs and made our way back to the ‘over rated’ Premiership though.

 

In the many years we narrowly avoided relegation from the Premiership how many fans secretly hoped we would go down so we could then ‘compete in a more open league?’ In all those years I did not hear that argument forwarded even once. Maybe some will claim that was down a mistaken belief that the Premiership was the only place to be but now we know better.

 

Those that argue we will win less and struggle in the premiership are of course right but using that logic it could be argued we would have been better off being relegated last season.

 

It’s not enough just to win games though, surely most want to be the best we possibly can at the highest level we can compete in. So it’s the Premiership for me but I do think the club has a better ‘feel’ about it now there is more emphasis on the local development of youth and less on over the hill hit men that cost a lot but rarely add much value or sense of pride.

[dubai_phil]

It is an interesting question but I do think peoples opinion on this change as our circumstances do. That is natural, and not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make me a bit dubious of those fans that claim to be ‘happy’ to stay in this league.

 

There was an excellent thread a few months back on much the same topic (Championship v Premiership) and I must admit it did surprise me how many genuine and varied arguments people gave for wanting to stay in the championship. I still think those same fans would be celebrating if we scraped through the play offs and made our way back to the ‘over rated’ Premiership though.

 

In the many years we narrowly avoided relegation from the Premiership how many fans secretly hoped we would go down so we could then ‘compete in a more open league?’ In all those years I did not hear that argument forwarded even once. Maybe some will claim that was down a mistaken belief that the Premiership was the only place to be but now we know better.

 

Those that argue we will win less and struggle in the premiership are of course right but using that logic it could be argued we would have been better off being relegated last season.

 

It’s not enough just to win games though, surely most want to be the best we possibly can at the highest level we can compete in. So it’s the Premiership for me but I do think the club has a better ‘feel’ about it now there is more emphasis on the local development of youth and less on over the hill hit men that cost a lot but rarely add much value or sense of pride.

 

One thing that would be interesting is to ask the question

 

Would you prefer to scrape around the bottom reaches of the PL with a bunch of bought in mercenaries and making do with a "local man's millions", and with no real sense of direction OTHER than just surving and hoping for an occassional result against a big team.

 

OR

 

Would you like to do what we (SEEM) to be doing now which is to build our own team, from the ground up (and yes bring in foreign youngsters but not over the hill types), aim to be better each year and eventually be back in the PL with a team that we fell an affinity with.

 

For me it would be the latter every time.

Unfortunately I have no real idea if 1) It would be possible or 2) we wouldn't be spoiled by the increased wages we'd be paying the youngsters when they get that whole "I'm a PL player" attitude

[offix]

I can't imagine any true fan wanting to remain mired in the mickey mouse, with the threat of administration constantly hanging about our head. I don't remember you clowns wishing wistfully to be relegated to watch dire football when Lord Lowe had us flying high in the promised land.

 

Conveniently leaving out that part of history where your hero gets us relegated to this 'mickey mouse" league Scoobs?

[GreenTreeFrog]

One thing that would be interesting is to ask the question

 

Would you prefer to scrape around the bottom reaches of the PL with a bunch of bought in mercenaries and making do with a "local man's millions", and with no real sense of direction OTHER than just surving and hoping for an occassional result against a big team.

 

OR

 

Would you like to do what we (SEEM) to be doing now which is to build our own team, from the ground up (and yes bring in foreign youngsters but not over the hill types), aim to be better each year and eventually be back in the PL with a team that we fell an affinity with.

 

For me it would be the latter every time.

Unfortunately I have no real idea if 1) It would be possible or 2) we wouldn't be spoiled by the increased wages we'd be paying the youngsters when they get that whole "I'm a PL player" attitude

 

 

For me, under the circumstances you describe, there would be no question I would also take second option (the championship).

 

But your question puts a very biased, or specific, slant on it and few would WANT to be in the first situation. We struggled in many years of the Premiership but were far more than the sad team in your bleak scenario (I don’t mean you were making the comparison, Phil).

 

I am happy with what the club is trying to achieve and how different it is to the last few years but that does not exclude a return to the premiership where we hope to be able to compete again. Sunderland came down with a record points low (before Derby took the honours over) but when they got back up were stronger and looked to survive intially but then to improve a bit each year. They have not spent silly money. If we could do something like them then that would suit me fine – until we all get complacent and demand to move to ‘the next level’ of course.