sotonjoe Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8161793.stm I think the large pub chains have a lot to answer for. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a cheap Wetherspoons pint at times as much as the next person, but all the time Wetherspoons and their chums are filling up our cities with pubs selling ridiculously cheap drinks, the local independent pub has no chance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I've got three of them in my back garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I came across a thread on another forum recently discussing the demise of the local pubs in the UK, and one poster claimed that it is because a very large majority of local pubs are owned by national companies, chains etc.. who have massive debts to pay off due to the recession. This combined with the amount of duty to be paid on alcohol at present means they are much better off selling the property for redevelopment than they are continuing to run the pub as a viable business. I'll try and find the link - it's an interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 22 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Yeh, I knew there was a witty response possible if you took the headline as a pun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 survival of the fittest in a nation of over drinkers...less pubs the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Can we blame the smoking ban yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Seriously, though, i am saddened by the decline in traditional pubs and I do think the Wetherspoons phenomenon is largely to blame. It is a similar situation to local butchers, greengrocers etc facing closure because they can no longer compete with the Tesco's of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Can we blame the smoking ban yet? did you know..in parts of the EU they have reversed the smoking ban particularly in belgium of all places...some pubs/bars that do not serve food have a smoking room/bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I don't think Wetherspoons has had as much of an effect as some of you think. Clearly any pubs near to a Wetherspoons will see a decline in trade (esp day time trade), but they do tend to be in city centres, rather than near "the local". One of the big problems local pubs face is "the tie". So many pubs are tied to 'PubCos' (Greene King & Punch Taverns being two of the largest) and landlords can ONLY get the beers that are approved by their company, and at the price agreed - even if they know they could get cheaper beer themselves. Speak to any tied landlord (most of them) and they will see it is killing them. Another issue is beer tax. This hits smaller pubs more (especially independents), as they have to pass on the price to their consumer (a beer duty rise of 2p in the £ could add 5-10p onto a pint), whereas chains like Wetherspoons can swallow them up easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 did you know..in parts of the EU they have reversed the smoking ban particularly in belgium of all places...some pubs/bars that do not serve food have a smoking room/bar... The EU didn't enforce "the" smoking ban, it was UK law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Oh, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 The EU didn't enforce "the" smoking ban, it was UK law. i know did i say the EU did..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 It's mainly due to tax and the supermarket selling beer at a fraction of the cost. Also, the new generation of drinkers are WKD drinking poofs who get ****ed on about 3 bottles so never actaully spend any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Can we blame the smoking ban yet? Only partially. The rest of the blame sits squarely with the supermarkets who sell alcohol as a loss leader to keep customers in their shops. Which would you rather.... £3.00 a pint [because the tax is horrific, thanks Tony and Gordon ], in a pub that is a smoke free zone. or 50p a pint in your own armchair where you can smoke until the kaaaannnnccccaaaaa gets ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Yes, despite my long, waffly post, I forgot loss-leading supermarket beer. I believe you can purchase your recommended number of units per week for about £2.20, by virtue of buying super strength cider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 maybe we should follow the lead of some of our european partners and consider a partial reversal of the smoking ban... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 maybe we should follow the lead of some of our european partners and consider a partial reversal of the smoking ban... I think we should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 As a non-smoker, it never bothered me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Yes, despite my long, waffly post, I forgot loss-leading supermarket beer. I believe you can purchase your recommended number of units per week for about £2.20, by virtue of buying super strength cider. Which is why most pubco's are behind a minimum price for a unit - ranging from 50p to 80p. It will come in, just a matter of time, and agreeing on the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 maybe we should follow the lead of some of our european partners and consider a partial reversal of the smoking ban... Will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 As a non-smoker, it never bothered me. +1 Nothing to do with the smoking ban, dirty ****ty habit. Not being funny, but why should I breathe in your filth ?? The reason is A/ the credit crunch and B/ the fact that the cost of a pint keeps going up and up, well done brown you c*nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 +1 Nothing to do with the smoking ban, dirty ****ty habit. Not being funny, but why should I breathe in your filth ?? The reason is A/ the credit crunch and B/ the fact that the cost of a pint keeps going up and up, well done brown you c*nt. dont go into that pub and/or that part of the bar..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I meant smoking in pubs never bothered me. I miss my clothes stinking of **** after a sesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 dont go into that pub and/or that part of the bar..? Why should i be the one that moves though ??? You make the decision TO smoke, not the decision not to ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Why should i be the one that moves though ??? You make the decision TO smoke, not the decision not to ?? I assume you got your drinks and stayed in the beer garden everytime before than ban was brought in..? youhad the choice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Why should i be the one that moves though ??? To help stop pubs going out of business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Which is why most pubco's are behind a minimum price for a unit - ranging from 50p to 80p. It will come in, just a matter of time, and agreeing on the price... Believe it or not, one of the three main political parties is in favour of minimum pricing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 dont go into that pub and/or that part of the bar..? If only it was that simple DD. Smoke can't be contained that easily. Did you ever sit near one of those booths they had at airports which were supposed to extract the smoke? It still stunk, and that was a pretty high tech solution. We used to have smoking rooms at work, and if you went anywhere near them you smelt it. How long has the ban been going, 3 years or so? And they haven't turned the rooms into anything else as they are ingrained with smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 To help stop pubs going out of business? The smoking ban has not made pubs go out of business, it is the fact that the Tax on alcohol is far too high and you can buy cheaply from supermarkets. TBH, it's more the breweries owning the pubs pushing them under, many freehold landlords i know are doing pretty well buying cheaply and making profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 If only it was that simple DD. Smoke can't be contained that easily. Did you ever sit near one of those booths they had at airports which were supposed to extract the smoke? It still stunk, and that was a pretty high tech solution. We used to have smoking rooms at work, and if you went anywhere near them you smelt it. How long has the ban been going, 3 years or so? And they haven't turned the rooms into anything else as they are ingrained with smoke. i dont even smoke and i agree.. but for local boozers I think it would not harm if they were allowed to have a smoking bar should they want to and not a food serving pub.. for national chain bars down the highstreet..no..most of them sell food anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 The smoking ban has not made pubs go out of business, it is the fact that the Tax on alcohol is far too high and you can buy cheaply from supermarkets. TBH, it's more the breweries owning the pubs pushing them under, many freehold landlords i know are doing pretty well buying cheaply and making profits. you say that as if it is a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I assume you got your drinks and stayed in the beer garden everytime before than ban was brought in..? youhad the choice.. Yes, i understand what you are saying but it should not HAVE to be my choice should it ?? I decide not to smoke ?? I'm am not one of these people that hates smokers and all that ******** but why should i breathe in a substance that i have no desire to breathe in ?? And smell of something i shouldn't have to ?? If a smoker wishes to smoke then they can smoke somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 http://www.fairpint.org.uk/ Useful info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Believe it or not, one of the three main political parties is in favour of minimum pricing... the BNP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Yes, i understand what you are saying but it should not HAVE to be my choice should it ?? I decide not to smoke ?? I'm am not one of these people that hates smokers and all that ******** but why should i breathe in a substance that i have no desire to breathe in ?? And smell of something i shouldn't have to ?? If a smoker wishes to smoke then they can smoke somewhere else. fine...dont go into one of these pubs that (in my world) are allowed to have a smokers bar..still have that choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 you say that as if it is a fact Not saying it is a complete fact, that is IMO, very sad if people that smoke can't put up with it. Is true though, the average pint is now around the 3 pound mark, i can buy 8 cans generally in a co-op for about a 5er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 fine...dont go into one of these pubs that (in my world) are allowed to have a smokers bar..still have that choice If they had 2 seperate bars then yeah, i would take that choice, but why should i stand in the only bar of a pub for example and breathe in somebody elses smoke ?? If you don't see that point you are obviously an obnoxious c*nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 i dont even smoke and i agree.. but for local boozers I think it would not harm if they were allowed to have a smoking bar should they want to and not a food serving pub.. for national chain bars down the highstreet..no..most of them sell food anyway.. It would. It would harm the staff. Pretty soon there would be a court case and damages paid etc etc, and the Elf and Safety would have a field day. Also, the Gov't will NEVER admit to being wrong, so the decision will NEVER be reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 you say that as if it is a fact TBF that is a FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 TBF that is a FACT. i dont believe you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 He does own a pub, I believe. I am going to go with his view! Even though I wouldn't have banned smoking in pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 no we should perhaps go back to off licences and not allow supermarkets tosell cheap booze.The fabric of our society is pulling apart.Just look on the streets at night and see what cheap booze is doing. In Australia supermarkets are not able to sell booze, it has to be made to cost more so we dont get the binge drinking and all the problems that go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 TBF that is a FACT. back in 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5276680.stm 2008 http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/buisness/smoking-ban-effect-on-pubs-worse-than-expected-$1229636.htm from wiki The ban came into force in Wales on 2 April 2007.[63] Six months after the ban's implementation in Wales, the Licensed Victuallers Association (LVA), which represents pub operators across Wales, claimed pubs had lost up to 20% of their trade. The LVA says some businesses were on the brink of closure, others had already closed down, and there was little optimism trade would eventually return to pre-ban levels.[64] The British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA), which represents pubs and breweries across the UK claimed beer sales are at their lowest level since the 1930s. The BBPA sustained a fall in sales of 7% during 2007 to the smoking ban there is more...but clearly is NOT a fact is it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 He does own a pub, I believe. I am going to go with his view! Even though I wouldn't have banned smoking in pubs. im sure he could cherry pick his pub..but we are talking across the board and on a bigger scale than his pub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 dont go into that pub and/or that part of the bar..? so your mate smokes and you dont.To avoid the smoke they would be in seperate bars, what nonsense, and selfish of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 no we should perhaps go back to off licences and not allow supermarkets tosell cheap booze.The fabric of our society is pulling apart.Just look on the streets at night and see what cheap booze is doing. In Australia supermarkets are not able to sell booze, it has to be made to cost more so we dont get the binge drinking and all the problems that go with it. No, they should just police the streets better and hand down proper sentances to those acting like d*ckheads. All the problems are not drink but people problems. Not everyone turns into an asshole when they drink. Also, you still see underage kids drinking, instead of putting prices up (or taxes up) they should concentrate on stopping them getting hold of alcohol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I'm a smoker and the ban hasn't bothered me at all. I would never have smoked prior to the ban around someone eating or someone that didn't like it. I am sure it has had some impact on pub business, but i would imagine the biggest impacy is the credit crunch, coupled with the fact that supermarkets are selling beer cheaper than coca cola. I used to go out once a week, but its probably more like once a month now (Not including football) and am quite happy with a few cans / bottle of red, indoors with a couple of mates round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 so your mate smokes and you dont.To avoid the smoke they would be in seperate bars, what nonsense, and selfish of course. he does not smoke constantly...he does have periods of NOT having a fag...it would be MY choice if i wanted to go into that part of the bar or not.. anyway, friends go out side when they smoke ATT.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 If people are really that dependent that they can't go to the pub cos they can't be bothered to walk outside then they should really have a word with themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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