Munto Finance v Markus Liebherr (Notts County v Saints)

[saintjay77]

We won the FA Cup which justified our spend, now its back to normal

 

Like i said, you have enjoyed some success but should you go into admin and sink like we did then fishy fingers will be pointed at the over spend as the reason to your downfall despite the success you got in the mean time.

 

I doubt we will ever look at overspending as a major factor in our demise. Our best bit of recent history was the FA cup final on little spend and the lack of spending there after is the usual reason we blame our downfall on.

 

Not saying either have done things the right way but the reasons for failure will certainly not be the same. That said poopy are still on the edge of a takeover so as yet havnt failed.

[saintjay77]

We spent more than we could afford to spend. That is overspending.

 

At the time the gates were reasonable and the player sales provided the money to spend so I would say we could afford to. We couldnt afford to not get promoted and keep that list of players so bad management there after played a big part in our downfall. not the attempt to get us out of trouble.

[Frank's cousin]

Overall, I agree with the 'pragmatic' approach....but would still be nice to have just one 'major' headline grabbing signing to whet our appetite.

 

It would be a tad dull if everything was done at a 'sensible' level.

 

Thing is a 'headline grabbing' signing would only be comming for the money - we cant attract 'stars' (evensay CCC stars) at our current level - so why waste money? We need to build a squad capable of competing and winning in THIS division which as ML has said will require a level of investment APPROPRIATE to the level we are playing in. right now you dont need to spend a fortune, but spend wisely..save the big spend for when we are challenging for promotion to the prem

[RonManager]

Thing is a 'headline grabbing' signing would only be comming for the money - we cant attract 'stars' (evensay CCC stars) at our current level - so why waste money? We need to build a squad capable of competing and winning in THIS division which as ML has said will require a level of investment APPROPRIATE to the level we are playing in. right now you dont need to spend a fortune' date=' but spend wisely..save the big spend for when we are challenging for promotion to the prem[/quote']

 

I would agree wholeheartedly with that, but i feel we need to be building a squad that will not need wholesale changes when we get promoted. We don't want to have to be rebuilding during the close season if possible. Too many teams fall into this trap and suffer for it the following season.

[Joensuu]

I doubt we will ever look at overspending as a major factor in our demise.

 

 

I'd argue that we have overspent, and that has indeed led to our demise.

 

In the 2006-07 season Burley was given c.7million to spend. Essentially this was a 'do-or-die' roll of the dice... It was a frustrating time, with Bagpuss/Burley having been given little to spend in the previous season, and most of the supporters were calling out for new players and investment.

 

 

At that point we had a choice, we could either:

• Cut costs and stabilise ourselves in the Championship unhinkable to most supporters; but financially sensible).
  
• Throw as much money as we could gather together at Burley, and gamble on promotion (What most supporters wanted; but a huge financial risk).
  

We all know what happened... and I guess you could argue that we would be here right now with so much optimism had we not gambled... but in all honesty I think we've been bloody lucky!

 

So did overspending lead to our demise? IMHO without a doubt...

 

NB - I've deliberately avoided words such as Lowe and Wilde in this post. I think both made mistakes, and I'm not taking sides... Mind you recklessness is more forgiveable than feathering ones nest IMO...

[hypochondriac]

I really don't think overspending led to our current position. It was the millstone of the stadium debt that was the main factor.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I'd argue that we have overspent, and that has indeed led to our demise.

 

In the 2006-07 season Burley was given c.7million to spend. Essentially this was a 'do-or-die' roll of the dice... It was a frustrating time, with Bagpuss/Burley having been given little to spend in the previous season, and most of the supporters were calling out for new players and investment.

 

 

At that point we had a choice, we could either:

• Cut costs and stabilise ourselves in the Championship unhinkable to most supporters; but financially sensible).
  
• Throw as much money as we could gather together at Burley, and gamble on promotion (What most supporters wanted; but a huge financial risk).
  

We all know what happened... and I guess you could argue that we would be here right now with so much optimism had we not gambled... but in all honesty I think we've been bloody lucky!

 

So did overspending lead to our demise? IMHO without a doubt...

 

NB - I've deliberately avoided words such as Lowe and Wilde in this post. I think both made mistakes, and I'm not taking sides... Mind you recklessness is more forgiveable than feathering ones nest IMO...

 

There is a difference, is there not, between overspending and overspending wisely?

[Joensuu]

There is a difference, is there not, between overspending and overspending wisely?

 

Without doubt! Had we spent wisely we would have stood a great chance of promotion...

 

Ignoring how well the money was spent, 7M was more than we could afford... (If income is X and outgoings are Y spending more than X-Y is taking a gamble!)... [hypochondriac -the stadium was indeed a millstone... (but should have been factored into the 'Y' category) ]

 

I'm not placing blame btw: my heart wanted to see money spent on exciting players; my head doubted we could afford it if all went wrong...

[offix]

Will you folks please stop "quoting" 19?

He/she is on my ignore list, which makes this board much more enjoyable, but that "ignore" function doesn't work for all those "quotes". Just add him/her to your ignore list please? ;-)

[trousers]

Will you folks please stop "quoting" 19?

He/she is on my ignore list, which makes this board much more enjoyable, but that "ignore" function doesn't work for all those "quotes". Just add him/her to your ignore list please? ;-)

 

 

HTH

[Mouldy Coat]

We still have a club, we have an owner in it for the long haul....I pray this is enough for you, or you may be leading the calls for 'ML out' before the end of July.........be patient.

 

No it's not enough for me, of course I am overwhelmed we still have a club and v grateful for ML, but providing the clubs finances are run sensibly I would still like to see us make an attempt to sign players with transfer fees thats all.

 

Anyway, you sound like a cyber warrior to me, intent on arguing with forum people (going by your other posts). Perhaps I should have rephrased to I hope we invest adequately in the team than invest lots - that way you wouldn't of got off yor high horse nnnnnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

COYR

[up and away]

Originally Posted by the stain

We spent more than we could afford to spend. That is overspending

At the time the gates were reasonable and the player sales provided the money to spend so I would say we could afford to. We couldnt afford to not get promoted and keep that list of players so bad management there after played a big part in our downfall. not the attempt to get us out of trouble.

 

Time being the operative that you have failed to factor effectively. We got out of a major financial hole by selling on Jones and Baird when fees had gone through the roof. We had no idea this would happen, with the players only being worth a fraction of that return when we placed ourselves into that financial mess. Things were far, far worse than what you imagine.

[John B]

There is a difference, is there not, between overspending and overspending wisely?

 

 

Is this overspending or overspending wisely

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4505089.Euell_ends_costly_spell_at_Saints/

 

The first I would have thought

 

The Euell signing for me was start of the move to Administration but I am not really concerned noe regarding oadministration as it is now in the past

Edited 22 July, 2009 by John B

[derry]

This year we still have overpaid players on the books three players accounting for possibly £1.5m.

 

I would like the club to follow through on it's no debt policy and only spend what comes in. If ML puts money in unconditionally that's one thing but loans are something I wouldn't want to see.

 

If that means cutting our cloth according to our means so be it. We will probably realise about £3m on season ticket sales but we don't know whether any of the Surman/McGoldrick fees are available or whether we get a sell on fee from Blackstock's sale today.

 

Burnley built a good championship team run by a first class manager whilst spending a pittance. That is the way I would like to see us go.

 

In the long term a no debt start to every year would be of enormous benefit. An owner initially throwing multimillion sums at a club eventually loses interest and tries to get out. The Portsmouth situation may become such a problem.

[Clifford Nelson]

We need another clear out, but it's not easy to clear out players who nobody wants. In principle I agree that we shouldn't spend money on players by stacking up debt, but in our dire situation I think we probably need to engage in a bit of pump priming. Since AP is hoping to be somewhere in mid-table by Christmas I don't think he's got a choice, has he?

[Frank's cousin]

There is a difference, is there not, between overspending and overspending wisely?

 

I think this should really be spending or spending wisely - overspending is the source of many woes...

[derry]

We need another clear out, but it's not easy to clear out players who nobody wants. In principle I agree that we shouldn't spend money on players by stacking up debt, but in our dire situation I think we probably need to engage in a bit of pump priming. Since AP is hoping to be somewhere in mid-table by Christmas I don't think he's got a choice, has he?

 

Maybe loan some of them out or player exchanges.

[saintjay77]

Time being the operative that you have failed to factor effectively. We got out of a major financial hole by selling on Jones and Baird when fees had gone through the roof. We had no idea this would happen, with the players only being worth a fraction of that return when we placed ourselves into that financial mess. Things were far, far worse than what you imagine.

 

OK so we overspent in an attempt to get us promoted.

 

Would you say that is the underlieing reason of our downfall over the past 10 years say?

 

Thats my point, We can moan about Lowe or Wilde or who ever but IMO the main thing that most saints fans will blame our downfall on is the lack of spending while we were in the Prem. IMO we actually did spend more than it seamed but we spent allot on rubbish. I do believe that had more been spent and maybe if it had been spent wisely then we could have realistically pushed onto the next level.

 

But instead we didnt spend enough and dropped out of the prem. A short period of over spending didnt help matters but they certainly were not the cause for the position we found ourselves in.

 

Had that 6 or 7 mil not been spent and Lowe never got the boot the team would have still got weeker, crouds would have dwindled and the cash would have dried up. We would still be in a position where we need a buyer or an investor to turn us around. so again I cant see how we can declare that we screwed up because of overspending. After so many years of things going tits up and us lot blaming lack of spending being the reason.

[Nineteen Canteen]

 

HTH

 

What if Offix goes to the last post on the thread and works backward he could end up looping for the rest of time.

[Frank's cousin]

OK so we overspent in an attempt to get us promoted.

 

Would you say that is the underlieing reason of our downfall over the past 10 years say?

 

Thats my point, We can moan about Lowe or Wilde or who ever but IMO the main thing that most saints fans will blame our downfall on is the lack of spending while we were in the Prem. IMO we actually did spend more than it seamed but we spent allot on rubbish. I do believe that had more been spent and maybe if it had been spent wisely then we could have realistically pushed onto the next level.

 

But instead we didnt spend enough and dropped out of the prem. A short period of over spending didnt help matters but they certainly were not the cause for the position we found ourselves in.

 

Had that 6 or 7 mil not been spent and Lowe never got the boot the team would have still got weeker, crouds would have dwindled and the cash would have dried up. We would still be in a position where we need a buyer or an investor to turn us around. so again I cant see how we can declare that we screwed up because of overspending. After so many years of things going tits up and us lot blaming lack of spending being the reason.

 

TBH we were the same as many clubs in the lower divisions who we could perhaps never understand why they never seemed to 'push on or for promotion' - because without a sugar daddy, they lived within their means and thus stayed in their respective divisions as the years passed - If they get lucky with a few good youth players, the books are so finely balanced they need to cash in so do not see any progress... In the prem teams that ant to survive now see the need for squad improvements annually and increasing wages just to STAND still, let alone 'push on' - and if they do push on , the very best talent is poached anyway so where is no incentive...;-(

 

We may have declined without investment irrespective of the overspend, that is true, but the process would maybe have been a bit slower and we would hopefully have avoided the -10 points and admin - who knows.... but hey whatever L decides to invest, I think we wuill see building from the ground up, and we have the security that will help attract and keep players... good times ahead, maybe not as quickly as we would all like, but good times none-the-less

[John B]

TBH we were the same as many clubs in the lower divisions who we could perhaps never understand why they never seemed to 'push on or for promotion' - because without a sugar daddy, they lived within their means and thus stayed in their respective divisions as the years passed - If they get lucky with a few good youth players, the books are so finely balanced they need to cash in so do not see any progress... In the prem teams that ant to survive now see the need for squad improvements annually and increasing wages just to STAND still, let alone 'push on' - and if they do push on , the very best talent is poached anyway so where is no incentive...;-(

 

We may have declined without investment irrespective of the overspend, that is true, but the process would maybe have been a bit slower and we would hopefully have avoided the -10 points and admin - who knows.... but hey whatever L decides to invest, I think we wuill see building from the ground up, and we have the security that will help attract and keep players... good times ahead, maybe not as quickly as we would all like, but good times none-the-less

 

 

Lets face the only way we were going to prosper was with a rich backer.

 

We have that now and a free stadium.

 

So things will improve its a shame that Pinnacle bid because we have missed a month of team building

[Gingeletiss]

No it's not enough for me, of course I am overwhelmed we still have a club and v grateful for ML, but providing the clubs finances are run sensibly I would still like to see us make an attempt to sign players with transfer fees thats all.

 

Anyway, you sound like a cyber warrior to me, intent on arguing with forum people (going by your other posts). Perhaps I should have rephrased to I hope we invest adequately in the team than invest lots - that way you wouldn't of got off yor high horse nnnnnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

COYR

 

 

Lol...........Cyber warrior, you read too many Geek magazines IMO. Sorry you have taken umbrage, but having supported the club, man and boy, for over 48 years, I do not, repeat, do not want us going out of business. What you alluded to, was that because we have a rich owner, we should spend, spend, spend........that is the way of madness. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but methinks it is not one shared by many on here.

[St Luke Saint]

First player signing comparision:

 

Saints: Dan Harding

County: Lee Hughes

 

I know they play different position etc, etc, but I damn sure we've got the better player.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It will be interesting to watch how the two new owners of Saints and County go about achieving success. With the appointment of Eriksson on an unconfirmed £40,000 a week it appears the Middle Eastern consortium, Munto Finance are going to throw shed loads of cash in attempting to propel NC into the CCC while it appears we are going down the slower or steadier "Bosman" route, picking up free transfers and building slowly by laying deeper foundations. Who will reach the CCC first, I wonder? Comparing the two styles will be fascinating.

 

Willl ML start "flashing the cash" if early results are not good or is he prepared to consolidate a few seasons?

 

Will Notts County manage to attract decent players into League Two?

 

Oh and one more thing, while talking about new owners and their differing styles - this is from the front page of the Sports secion in today's Guardian (22.07.09).

 

PREMIER LEAGUE STILL NOT HAPPY WITH AL-FAHIM'S PORTSMOUTH TAKEOVER

 

"The Premier League will block Sulaiman Al-Fahim's supposed takeover of Portsmouth despite his installation as the club's chairman yesterday, subject to more investigations".

 

The fat lady may have cleared her throat but the first note has yet to be sung!

Hypo will be getting nervous

 

I can't help but think of the story about the tortoise and the hare.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I shouldn't, but every time I see that name Munto, I get these flash backs. Wonder if their corporate logo is of the huge, brute, dense, cowboy riding a longhorn steer from Blazing Saddles.........

 

The very same daft idea occured to me DP

 

Edited 22 July, 2009 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[L1Minus10]

Munto have made their first error in appointing that complete charlatan Sven who I doubt will acheive anything of note. He's a complete fraud who has done **** all since before he got the England job.

[grammy]

Are they richer than us now?

 

Abdullah Bin Saaed Al Thani Worth £1.5 Billion (Allegedly)

Markus Liebherr £2.7 Billion

 

£40K a week for a part time Sv G E !!! What a laff

 

Just for info does anyone know if there is still a wage cap for players in league 2?

[mcjwills]

OK so we overspent in an attempt to get us promoted.

 

Would you say that is the underlieing reason of our downfall over the past 10 years say?

 

Thats my point, We can moan about Lowe or Wilde or who ever but IMO the main thing that most saints fans will blame our downfall on is the lack of spending while we were in the Prem. IMO we actually did spend more than it seamed but we spent allot on rubbish. I do believe that had more been spent and maybe if it had been spent wisely then we could have realistically pushed onto the next level.

 

But instead we didnt spend enough and dropped out of the prem. A short period of over spending didnt help matters but they certainly were not the cause for the position we found ourselves in.

 

Had that 6 or 7 mil not been spent and Lowe never got the boot the team would have still got weeker, crouds would have dwindled and the cash would have dried up. We would still be in a position where we need a buyer or an investor to turn us around. so again I cant see how we can declare that we screwed up because of overspending. After so many years of things going tits up and us lot blaming lack of spending being the reason.

 

The problem was when we were in the Premier league we bought CCC level players all the time and logic dictates that is where you will eventually end up, and when we were in the CCC we ended up buying L1 standard players and well what a suprise we ended up there. !!!

Edited 22 July, 2009 by mcjwills
Typos

[Right sider]

The whole thing with the 'new' fit and proper person tests is that they are being watched by Platini and Uefa. The Fa HAVE to ensure that money is clean as they know that the old test let people like Sasha and Thaksin through. If they can't unravel the money trail it won't get passed.

 

Simples!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The whole thing with the 'new' fit and proper person tests is that they are being watched by Platini and Uefa. The Fa HAVE to ensure that money is clean as they know that the old test let people like Sasha and Thaksin through. If they can't unravel the money trail it won't get passed.

 

Simples!

 

I still can't get the Edwin Hawkins singers tune "Oh Happy Day" out of my head. Was it really in the charts 40 years ago this month - seems like yesterday.

[derry]

Abdullah Bin Saaed Al Thani Worth £1.5 Billion (Allegedly)

Markus Liebherr £2.7 Billion

 

£40K a week for a part time Sv G E !!! What a laff

 

Just for info does anyone know if there is still a wage cap for players in league 2?

 

Yes, Barry Fry on SSN confirmed there is a salary cap of 60% of income.

[CityRanger]

WTF does Sven know about the lower leagues ffs? Bizarre!

 

We won't really know if we have a prudent approach til the end of the transfer window imo. AP may make a few Bosmans/bargain signings at the back and midfield then go in big for firepower up front. I hope that's what'll happen anyway.

 

Then we'll have a better idea of what sort of owner we have.

[eelpie]

I don't feel comfortable that we are comparing our prospects with a club that narrowly avoided sinking into non-league oblivion.

[saintjay77]

TBH we were the same as many clubs in the lower divisions who we could perhaps never understand why they never seemed to 'push on or for promotion' - because without a sugar daddy, they lived within their means and thus stayed in their respective divisions as the years passed - If they get lucky with a few good youth players, the books are so finely balanced they need to cash in so do not see any progress... In the prem teams that ant to survive now see the need for squad improvements annually and increasing wages just to STAND still, let alone 'push on' - and if they do push on , the very best talent is poached anyway so where is no incentive...;-(

 

We may have declined without investment irrespective of the overspend, that is true, but the process would maybe have been a bit slower and we would hopefully have avoided the -10 points and admin - who knows.... but hey whatever L decides to invest, I think we wuill see building from the ground up, and we have the security that will help attract and keep players... good times ahead, maybe not as quickly as we would all like, but good times none-the-less

 

Im not trying to have a dig at the situation we was in as to be honest, without someone spunking a load of money into the club we were never going to live beyond ouer means. Some of the dross that came in was questionable and the choices of manager even more so. But what im saying is that for years the complaint was that Lowe was a tight arse and never spent anything and as such we missed out on players like Drogba, Saha and someone else I cant remember. It was the lack of spending that many blamed our fall on. A poopy fan was trying to suggest that our downfall was because of overspending which would suggest all our problems lay at the feet of the Wilde board for having a crack at getting us back up to the Prem.

 

While his effort made ultimatly made things worse by not having the investment to back up the spend I dont think the attempt can be blamed for over all situation over the past how ever many years.

 

Back to the main point though, if ML bank roles a sensible approach with the Prem as an eventual target then I will be more than happy. Id like for us to get back to the prem and feel like we earned and deserve to be there. Just knowing that we dont have to worry about pressure from the banks or loans is enough for me right now.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Don't see any difference between the two approaches so far TBH. Appoint a top manager and sort out the squad. Has Sven actually spent a penny yet? Don't think so.

[Foxy]

All credit to Munto Finance. I like to see busienssmen with a sense of humour. I mean, Sven...........40k per week.........it has to be some kind of ingenius pastiche on the state of modern football, right?

[Frank's cousin]

Im not trying to have a dig at the situation we was in as to be honest, without someone spunking a load of money into the club we were never going to live beyond ouer means. Some of the dross that came in was questionable and the choices of manager even more so. But what im saying is that for years the complaint was that Lowe was a tight arse and never spent anything and as such we missed out on players like Drogba, Saha and someone else I cant remember. It was the lack of spending that many blamed our fall on. A poopy fan was trying to suggest that our downfall was because of overspending which would suggest all our problems lay at the feet of the Wilde board for having a crack at getting us back up to the Prem.

 

While his effort made ultimatly made things worse by not having the investment to back up the spend I dont think the attempt can be blamed for over all situation over the past how ever many years.

 

Back to the main point though, if ML bank roles a sensible approach with the Prem as an eventual target then I will be more than happy. Id like for us to get back to the prem and feel like we earned and deserve to be there. Just knowing that we dont have to worry about pressure from the banks or loans is enough for me right now.

 

I would agree with that... what I am hoping for nowthough is that expectations are not raised beyond what anyone can reasonably expect....just because we may see other teams /owners prepared to invest (stupid money) on a potential quick fix or short cut to success... I believe the very reason that Saints DID spend 27 years in the top flight when much bigger teams came and went is because that was built on the very strong foundations laid down by Ted and subsequently Lawrie. I do think it was easier then as personality of the manager etc played a far greater role in attracting players - no/minimal agent activity and realistic wages and transfer fees meant a more level playing field - and we saw modest teams like Forest and Derby having success simply due to wise buys and good management styles as opposed to stupid levels of investment (although at the time when Forest bought Trevor Francis and made it the 1st 1 mil transfer it was considered obscene) - now to break into the top 4 you have to spend stupid which makes it worse for everyone - its already expensive for the rest of the clubs to invest enough to stay up year on year, let alone progress and without a sugar daddy prepared to lose money year on year, even clubs like Spurs and Villa etc would be struggling to maintain their top half positions... Those that dont ahve that luxury have to survive on borrowing and debt (pompey) or luck of good youth breaking through together and sound management which is not easy... We had one out of three and so the writing was on the wall. Would we have survived long term in the prem without investment? NO, and thats the crux really, we spent on average 8-10 mil a year on new players those last 4-5 years - with teh strategy of these playesr being complemented by the best of the youth coming thorugh - a good way to live within ones means - but this was not enough, even had the money been spend more appropriately - that's accepted now.

 

What is still not fully appreciated by some though is how we would have funded any further spending.

 

Many blame the PLC and the limitations of the diverse shareholdings. I actually believ that teh PLC served a purpose up to a point, but it should perhaps have always been only a stepping stone. The PLC and reverse takover did two things, provided a cash injection into the club and also created the financial controls necessary to satisfy the stricter regulatory requirements that in turn in combination with increased revenues from Broadcasting, allowed SFC to secure the necessary loans for SMS... something we may well ahve struggled with ahd we been under private ownership with noone willing to secure their own personal assets against said loans. The problems of course are also well known.. the need for dividends etc and the potential or shareholder infighting which contributed to the mess afer relegation.

 

With ML I ahve real faith that the club will rebuild strong foundations first. Yes we are all desperate to see rapid progress, but rapid progress tends to be transient and can only be sustained if the money continues to flow from the pockets of the owner which is never guarranteed. Having the financial stabilty with appropriate investment is the way to go IMHO and although some may mourn the lack of a 'name' like Sven, quietly going about our business based on a realistic financial strategy is by far the best approach.

 

Personnally, I like Herr Liebherr's style and in Cortese he has a shrewd, talented and pragmatic deputy... I have a smile on my face about Saints for the first time in 5 years ;-)

 

Now we just need to remain patient and supportive while teh plans are allowed to mature.

 

Bring it on!

Edited 23 July, 2009 by Frank's cousin

[trousers]

I don't feel comfortable that we are comparing our prospects with a club that narrowly avoided sinking into non-league oblivion.

 

Is that a quote from a Notts County fan?

[trousers]

Will we be 'allowed' to start whinging again if we lose our first 5 games and Notts County win theirs?

 

Edit: whoops sorry, too negative. Don't want to arouse the thought police.

 

Edit again: Did I just say 'arouse'?

 

And not forgetting one of these:

[Frank's cousin]

Will we be 'allowed' to start whinging again if we lose our first 5 games and Notts County win theirs?

 

Edit: whoops sorry, too negative. Don't want to arouse the thought police.

 

Edit again: Did I just say 'arouse'?

 

And not forgetting one of these:

 

Trust me trousers - am not aroused ;-) NO problem with being normal football fans again - in fact it will be graet to be able to whinge as all other fans do... not focussed on politics. The difference now is that we have been told the strategy is a slow build,not big cash splash - some will disagree and moan that 'why cant we do it that way' others will be quietly satisfied... just gald we have an owner who will allow us to be normal whinging fans again ;-)

[trousers]

What if Offix goes to the last post on the thread and works backward he could end up looping for the rest of time.

 

Sums up my time on here the last two years or so

[saintjay77]

 

Personnally, I like Herr Liebherr's style and in Cortese he has a shrewd, talented and pragmatic deputy... I have a smile on my face about Saints for the first time in 5 years ;-)

 

Now we just need to remain patient and supportive while teh plans are allowed to mature.

 

Bring it on!

 

I think the Arsenal model is not far off what ML will be basing his approach on. They dont buy players on over inflated prices or wages, they like to bring through youth and build there teams from within while adding quality where its needed, they leave the running of the team to the manager and they aim for the top 4 and champions league football.

 

Man U manage to get it year on year but look at how much they generally spend to get there? Same with Chelsea. Man City are spending more this year and still no-one believes they will be in the top 4 this season.

 

So if ML applys the Arsenal model but altered to suit the league we are in I would expect us to rise slowly but continue to see progress for a number of years and maybe eventually have an aim for top half of the prem. If we get that far there is no reason why we cant continue to look upwards.

 

All sounds pie in the sky and just a dream but if they take things one step at a time and get the right things right then who knows? Im smiling now at the idea that we still have a club, i hope to still be smiling in 5 years time when we are back taking on the big boys.

[FMPR]

Greatest of respect lads but all that policy does is get your best players sold off whilst feeding the fans "just wait till next year"

 

Look at Arsenal, if they had retained their better players they would have a hell of a squad but people like Hleb, Flamini and Adebayor want that success and more importantly money from the transfer.

 

Can you see Fabregas hanging around next summer if Man City beat them to 4th spot?

 

Whilst its fantastic to see your youth brought through clubs generally get success by buying quality players.

 

Look at Utd, City, Liverpool, Chelsea all teams with excellent youth academies

 

Utd - In there starting 11 now possibly just Neville

City - Onuoha and Ireland (but Onuoha likely to goto Everton in p/ex for Lescott)

Liverpool - Carragher and Gerrard (from 14 years ago)

Chelsea - Terry (from 14 years ago)

[trousers]

So.....Caution vs Gung-ho

 

Anyone changed their mind yet....?

[The Kraken]

So.....Caution vs Gung-ho

 

Anyone changed their mind yet....?

 

It's all very well throwing money at the situation if the owners are prepared to completely write-off the cash. While it's frustrating to see other newly taken over teams around us achieve the instant success we would like, I'd like to think we'd learnt our lesson of reckless spending and are heading for a more stable financial future.

 

That said, it would be nice to see some more positive signs of a revival on the pitch....

[Fitzhugh Fella]

It's all very well throwing money at the situation if the owners are prepared to completely write-off the cash. While it's frustrating to see other newly taken over teams around us achieve the instant success we would like, I'd like to think we'd learnt our lesson of reckless spending and are heading for a more stable financial future.

 

That said, it would be nice to see some more positive signs of a revival on the pitch....

 

thing is it would be HIS reckless spending compared to OUR reckless spending in the past.

[The Kraken]

It's all very well throwing money at the situation if the owners are prepared to completely write-off the cash. While it's frustrating to see other newly taken over teams around us achieve the instant success we would like, I'd like to think we'd learnt our lesson of reckless spending and are heading for a more stable financial future.

 

That said, it would be nice to see some more positive signs of a revival on the pitch....

 

thing is it would be HIS reckless spending compared to OUR reckless spending in the past.

 

Perhaps a question of semantics, but I can't see how (except in certain extreme cases) where the two are not related. Sure, Notts County and Man City are not expecting to see a return on their investment. However, no-one really knows what Abramovich is going to do when he gets bored at Chelsea, and all of their spending has been tied to interest-free loans from him rather than just a new, obligation-free injection of cash, so they could be aboslutely stuffed if and when he does leave. You only have to look at them down the road to see how reckless spending, originally believed to be tied to just the individual owner, can actually crash the club when said owner gets bored and tries to recoup as much of their investment as they can.

[lordswoodsaints]

Why can't we do both?

Throw lorry loads of cash to get us put of this sh1t league,this will not be an expensive thing to do in comparison to getting from the ccc to the prem and then steady the ship,laying foundations etc etc.

I say it's worth the gamble spending big this year to get out of this league,it's probably a bit late now but that's what I would have done I'd it was my club.

I think that if ML had shown intent to get us into the ccc this season by spending big then it would have put another 5k on the gate.

[Trader]

I am very surprised someone like Liebherr got involved in football, but so thankful he has. After looking closely at what he has done before, I don't think you could wish for a better chairman. I particularly like the way he has removed politics and the past from the club by his basic common sense stance. Anyone who supports Saints is welcome, all you have to do is pay your way. Everything he has done and is about revolves around a frugal, ambitious business maxim and I cannot see him changing that just yet, unless the bug bites deep and hard.

 

Going back to Notts County, that is indeed interesting. I get the feeling that being the oldest football club in the world had a lot to do with their decision and am pretty sure they will be throwing money at the problem. Svenn has been retained on a large salary plus a significant share in the club to get him to commit long term, but really not sure what value he brings until the club gets to a higher level.

 

As for Pompey and the FA, I just get the feeling that the original backers just went through a 3rd party financing company with Sulaiman Al-Fahim's out in front. I don't see anyway the FA can untie that knot from the middle east and will just have to accept it.

 

The oldest football club in the world is Sheffield FC.

[John B]

The oldest football club in the world is Sheffield FC.

 

I wonder who they played