Running up the white flag and accepting defeat.

[derry]

Absolutely correct Wes !

 

Sadly it was ended all too prematurely by an absolutely crass piece of board leadership!

 

But I do remain very hopeful that AP possesses all those qualities ( and perhaps more) that so endeared NP to a legion of Saints fans.

 

Here's hoping your right.

[Thedelldays]

Happy now Derry..?

 

how about we give Pards some time with the team FFS before we lose the plot

[derry]

Happy now Derry..?

 

how about we give Pards some time with the team FFS before we lose the plot

 

Yes. totally different, 2 strikers up except for free kicks and corners, lots of effort and an efficient and comfortable looking 4-4-2.

 

They should have set up like this against Ajax and it would have been a better performance. The 4-4-2 made a hell of a difference. In any event this thread was a criticism of Henderson and our defeatism which was nowhere to be seen today.

 

In any event I think a view taken from being at the match has far more value than criticism from those not present.

[Crispypie]

Is it time to burn the whaite flag now?

[derry]

Is it time to burn the whaite flag now?

 

 

This related to the old regime and their anticipation of inevitable defeat not to Alan Pardew who had his first match today.

 

A traditional 4-4-2, the players comfortable, a balanced selection, enthusiasm, loads of effort, a solid back four, organisation, no negativity and a will to win. Just what the doctor ordered.

 

Now time to introduce some more experience and move on. I think we will beat Millwall and Northampton. I'm not being overconfident but the motivation is there now.

[Professor]

Derry, come back and post again.......... Your last effort was only a half-hearted climb down!

[derry]

Derry, come back and post again.......... Your last effort was only a half-hearted climb down!

 

It was no climb down, last week was a disgrace. There was absolutely no resemblance to last week in the make up and organisation of Pardew's team today except for some of the same players playing.

 

If Henderson had been managing the team today I'm sure we would have taken another hammering. I stand by everything I said.

Edited 25 July, 2009 by derry

[Teddy Nutkins]

What a difference a week makes, what a difference organisation, spirit, and a well balanced 4-4-2 makes.Well done lads and well done the manager.............simple game really isn't it derry.

[Clifford Nelson]

I'm prepared to retract some of what I've written on this thread. I thought it was going to take a long time to instil a bit of fighting spirit and doubted that some of the players had it in them. I was wrong!

 

This was great! Perry is a quality CB, Matt P can lead the line, but numero uno again was Gillet IMO.

 

I actually didn't think anybody had a bad game. Even Wotton did well.

[Teddy Nutkins]

I'm prepared to retract some of what I've written on this thread. I thought it was going to take a long time to instil a bit of fighting spirit and doubted that some of the players had it in them. I was wrong!

 

This was great! Perry is a quality CB, Matt P can lead the line, but numero uno again was Gillet IMO.

 

I actually didn't think anybody had a bad game. Even Wotton did well.

 

Agree, he got out of the way of the centre backs, and actually linked quite well today.I am sure though, Alan Pardew will replace him eventually.

[CanadaSaint]

Agree, he got out of the way of the centre backs, and actually linked quite well today.I am sure though, Alan Pardew will replace him eventually.

 

From what I've seen AP really has to replace him because it's such a pivotal role. We can't succeed with inconsistency and questionable fitness in that position because that takes everything down the sh*tter with it. But get that one right and a whole lot of good things start to happen.

 

So the question is who?

[Teddy Nutkins]

From what I've seen AP really has to replace him because it's such a pivotal role. We can't succeed with inconsistency and questionable fitness in that position because that takes everything down the sh*tter with it. But get that one right and a whole lot of good things start to happen.

 

So the question is who?[/quote]

 

If i had a choice i would go and get Matt Oakley back from Leicester, but i am sure Mr. Pearson may have something to say about that.

[derry]

From what I've seen AP really has to replace him because it's such a pivotal role. We can't succeed with inconsistency and questionable fitness in that position because that takes everything down the sh*tter with it. But get that one right and a whole lot of good things start to happen.

 

So the question is who?[/quote]

 

If i had a choice i would go and get Matt Oakley back from Leicester, but i am sure Mr. Pearson may have something to say about that.

 

A good call Colin, Whoever it is, has to be able to pass the ball and organise the midfield. The youngsters are still a long way from knowing instinctively where they should be, position wise, they could do with a good player to direct them if needed.

 

You and Canada Saint have much in common he was a young player on the Saints books and played in the same team as Mike Channon and Bob McCarthy when they were starting to make a break through.

 

I'll try and get him to come to one of our get togethers when he comes over.

Edited 26 July, 2009 by derry

[derry]

What a difference a week makes, what a difference organisation, spirit, and a well balanced 4-4-2 makes.Well done lads and well done the manager.............simple game really isn't it derry.

 

We have been banging on about this for years. All these unbalanced systems which the players don't play naturally and detracted from the performances. Keep it simple, compact no nonsense defence and let it flow up front.

 

A simple balanced 4-4-2 plus a bit of direction and a no nonsense approach and suddenly we are flying. The confidence will soon return plus some reinforcements and we could have a good season.

[Teddy Nutkins]

 

A good call Colin, Whoever it is, has to be able to pass the ball and organise the midfield. The youngsters are still a long way from knowing instinctively where they should be, position wise, they could do with a good player to direct them if needed.

 

You and Canada Saint have much in common he was a young player on the Saints books and played in the same team as Mike Channon and Bob McCarthy when they were starting to make a break through.

 

I'll try and get him to come to one of our get togethers when he comes

over.

 

Look forward to that Dave. I really enjoyed watching parts of yesterdays game and i have not done that for a while.When the 3rd goal went in we relaxed as a side and actually passed the ball around with a lot of confidence.

[John B]

We have been banging on about this for years. All these unbalanced systems which the players don't play naturally and detracted from the performances. Keep it simple, compact no nonsense defence and let it flow up front.

 

A simple balanced 4-4-2 plus a bit of direction and a no nonsense approach and suddenly we are flying. The confidence will soon return plus some reinforcements and we could have a good season.

 

I dont think beating a poor Hearts team is called flying welcomed though it was.

 

Lets wait until we win games in the league we have had so many false dawns when we beat Ipswich convincingly

[derry]

I dont think beating a poor Hearts team is called flying welcomed though it was.

 

Lets wait until we win games in the league we have had so many false dawns when we beat Ipswich convincingly

 

It was a comment specific to the performance. You could see the players visibly grow in confidence as the game closed out.

 

If we can build on that confidence aganst QPR, get a result and a good performance it should get them to the first game with the confidence to perform.

 

The 4-4-2 suits them and playing a system they were comfortable with adds to the feeling of confidence.

[Thedelldays]

It was a comment specific to the performance. You could see the players visibly grow in confidence as the game closed out.

 

If we can build on that confidence aganst QPR, get a result and a good performance it should get them to the first game with the confidence to perform.

 

The 4-4-2 suits them and playing a system they were comfortable with adds to the feeling of confidence.

I dont know how many times you need to mento 442..?

[derry]

 

Look forward to that Dave. I really enjoyed watching parts of yesterdays game and i have not done that for a while.When the 3rd goal went in we relaxed as a side and actually passed the ball around with a lot of confidence.

 

Absolutely.

[derry]

I dont know how many times you need to mento 442..?

 

We are talking about a game we went to.

[John B]

It was a comment specific to the performance. You could see the players visibly grow in confidence as the game closed out.

 

If we can build on that confidence aganst QPR, get a result and a good performance it should get them to the first game with the confidence to perform.

 

The 4-4-2 suits them and playing a system they were comfortable with adds to the feeling of confidence.

 

Oh if life was so simple

[derry]

Oh if life was so simple

 

Quite, but it was for once enjoyable and we can see where the manager is coming from with the players responding. I like what I see, how successful we are going to be, who knows.

 

As a matter of interest were you there?

[Clifford Nelson]

It was a comment specific to the performance. You could see the players visibly grow in confidence as the game closed out.

 

If we can build on that confidence aganst QPR, get a result and a good performance it should get them to the first game with the confidence to perform.

 

The 4-4-2 suits them and playing a system they were comfortable with adds to the feeling of confidence.

 

I don't object to the system, but I don't think that was the major reason for the uplift in morale of the team from the waving of white flags against Ajax to the willingness to play we saw yesterday. Whatever AP has done behind the scenes, and not of a technical nature, has had a massive effect on the players.

 

4-4-2 as a system is causing a problem for a player like Lallana, who isn't a linehugging winger by nature. On other threads here you can read him being criticised for his performance! He is, just like MLT in his pomp, a natural for a 4-3-1-2 formation, but firstly we haven't got the 3 who can play it, and secondly AL isn't probably mature enough for that role yet.

 

In the meantime we will have to accept that he is assigned right of midfield, and he will, just like Matty did, have to live with criticism for not being a right winger.

[derry]

I don't object to the system, but I don't think that was the major reason for the uplift in morale of the team from the waving of white flags against Ajax to the willingness to play we saw yesterday. Whatever AP has done behind the scenes, and not of a technical nature, has had a massive effect on the players.

 

4-4-2 as a system is causing a problem for a player like Lallana, who isn't a linehugging winger by nature. On other threads here you can read him being criticised for his performance! He is, just like MLT in his pomp, a natural for a 4-3-1-2 formation, but firstly we haven't got the 3 who can play it, and secondly AL isn't probably mature enough for that role yet.

 

In the meantime we will have to accept that he is assigned right of midfield, and he will, just like Matty did, have to live with criticism for not being a right winger.

 

You are right in one respect Lallana has to play in the system or he will be sacrificed. Whilst he has ability, a young MLT he isn't. Matt was probably the best striker of a football other than Beckham that I've seen in recent years. His goal from his weaker foot was good but his positional play is obviously being watched as Pardew and Wotton were waving him wide.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if we brought a wide right player in unless Lallana grasps the nettle and plays there. I suspect he will be used on a regular basis but not a 100% starter.

 

Apart from the motivational work that has been done I think the 4-4-2 was vital as the players looked comfortable and for once the teamwork was the key rather than spasmodic individual performances.

[bungle]

lol@derry.

[Clifford Nelson]

You are right in one respect Lallana has to play in the system or he will be sacrificed. Whilst he has ability, a young MLT he isn't. Matt was probably the best striker of a football other than Beckham that I've seen in recent years. His goal from his weaker foot was good but his positional play is obviously being watched as Pardew and Wotton were waving him wide.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if we brought a wide right player in unless Lallana grasps the nettle and plays there. I suspect he will be used on a regular basis but not a 100% starter.

 

Apart from the motivational work that has been done I think the 4-4-2 was vital as the players looked comfortable and for once the teamwork was the key rather than spasmodic individual performances.

 

As I said, I don't at all mind the system. You need very skilful and experienced players to play 4-3-3, or variations thereof, which we haven't got at the moment. We were much more comfortable yesterday. I don't think I agree about Lallana, though. If we are going to stick so rigidly to the formula then we are sacrificing what AL could bring to us, and if we're not going to play him he won't improve. Then we could as well sell him now. Remember what Lawrie Mac said about roadworkers and violinists, There should always be at least one violinist, even if a budding one, in a team.

 

We shouldn't have this national hang-up about formation. That was what was forcing MLT to play wide right long after he had become very capable of playing a more dominant role in the team. Branfoot even kept him on the bench because he didn't fit handily into his 4-4-2.

 

I don't know what had motivated them yesterday, but I strongly believe it had more to do with AP than the system.

 

By the way, ought to mention Matt Paterson, who had a very good game. Much more of a target man than Stern or Rasiak, who both seem to thrive playing off somebody else.

[derry]

I thought Paterson had a terrific game and was a real handful allowing John and Rasiak room.

 

I understand your view on Lallana but I don't think he is up there yet with a young MLT.

 

Only time will tell how he develops. He has had a pretty poor season and now needs to kick on.

 

I can't see anywhere he can play at the moment except wide right and coming in from the right when play is on the left.

 

If Gillett or somebody with his mobility was inside him they could double team and switch which would allow him to play centrally on the burst then go wide again. That for me would be the way to use him.

 

Whatever happens we need to use all the width, without pulling the defenders out we won't get goals.

 

Yesterday we had more crosses from the byeline than all last season and three goals.

Edited 27 July, 2009 by derry

[Clifford Nelson]

I thought Paterson had a terrific game and was a real handful allowing John and Rasiak room.

 

I understand your view on Lallana but I don't think he is up there yet with a young MLT.

 

Only time will tell how he develops. He has had a pretty poor season and now needs to kick on.

 

I can't see anywhere he can pay at the moment except wide right and coming in from the right when play is on the left.

 

If Gillett or somebody with his mobility was inside him they could double team and switch which would allow him to play centrally on the burst then go wide again. That for me would be the way to use him.

 

Whatever happens we need to use all the width, without pulling the defenders out we won't get goals.

 

Yesterday we had more crosses from the byeline than all last season and three goals.

 

I think we agree in the mains. The thought about a midfielder inside him is an interesting one. Maybe a variety would be an experienced RB who could cover the right flank when AL is off elsewhere.

 

His position, for now, is on the right, and he has got some work to do to be rightfully compared with a young MLT. However, he is, as far as I can see, the only genuinely creative player in the squad, possibly apart from Schneiderlin, but I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement.

[CanadaSaint]

I think Lallana has a ton of potential but he has been allowed to lack positional discipline. Although he can bring a lot of skill, energy and creativity, he can also seem like a f*rt in a thunderstorm at times, and this indiscipline can destroy the team's shape.

 

I really hope Pardew can sort this out because Lallana can be either a huge asset or a major liability, and that probably accounts for the wide spectrum of views on him.

[derry]

I think we agree in the mains. The thought about a midfielder inside him is an interesting one. Maybe a variety would be an experienced RB who could cover the right flank when AL is off elsewhere.

 

His position, for now, is on the right, and he has got some work to do to be rightfully compared with a young MLT. However, he is, as far as I can see, the only genuinely creative player in the squad, possibly apart from Schneiderlin, but I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement.

 

I think Lallana has a ton of potential but he has been allowed to lack positional discipline. Although he can bring a lot of skill, energy and creativity, he can also seem like a f*rt in a thunderstorm at times, and this indiscipline can destroy the team's shape.

 

I really hope Pardew can sort this out because Lallana can be either a huge asset or a major liability, and that probably accounts for the wide spectrum of views on him.

 

I saw one of our major defensive problems as being an empty right wing as this forced the right back to fill in.

 

That made us vulnerable to the counter attack up our left behind the full back leading to the centre backs having to move across and leaving us undefended on the far post.

 

Whoever plays right side has to do two things firstly be the first defender if the opponents break out on the left and secondly if overlapped cover the right back position. Defensively we have to occupy the right side from front to back.