South City Si Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 I know that the idea of the top four joining breakaway Euro League has been debated many times on other threads but with the emergence of Man City as well do we think it's time to allow/push for this to go ahead? What has made me look again at this was that I was reminded of the 'Phoenix League' and googled it. Not that I agreed with it (although at the time it would of helped us out), does it need to be re-opened and changed with the ever increasing money seemingly going into fewer and fewer clubs hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 forming a break away league would be great for some of the bigger clubs cut adrift of the big 4. It would need Sky to be very much behind it for it to have any chance.Whether it would have a pull without the big 4 that the tv companies adore is another thing. A competitive league with clubs with large fanbases would be quite exciting.Of course only if we were invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_saint Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 It just think it's about time we start going the same way as Rugby League and put a salary cap on wages, this would stop all the stupid money and make the league better, I mean, remember when teams like Swansea in the 80's who went from the bottom league to the top league within four years, and even managed to finish 6th, that dosen't happen anymore. It was the same with the player transfers, players normally started in the lower leagues and came up through, now we just go to Spain or France to find talent, it's not right. If the top four ever did join a Euro 'Super' league then I would wave them goodbye, they will not be welcome back and if they did want to join the football league again, they would have to start at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 It just think it's about time we start going the same way as Rugby League and put a salary cap on wages Won't ever happen simply due to the sums of money involved. Football at the highest level is more of an entertainment business than a sport these days. Can you honestly see ManYoo and Chelsea agreeing that they're not allowed to spend more in wages than Hull, Stoke and West Brom, thus wiping out one of the main advantages they have over the rest of the Premier League (and European leagues)? United have colossal revenue streams, but what's the point in generating all that revenue if they're being restricted in how they spend it? They'd end up with £150m worth of profits every year with nothing to spend it on... apart from transfer fees, which would then get even more ridiculous than they are already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 It, I mean, remember when teams like Swansea in the 80's who went from the bottom league to the top league within four years, and even managed to finish 6th, Hull, Wigan......Who would ever of thought they would be in the Premier League 5 or 6 years ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 yep and now Man c are going to compete with Chelski, it will add to player wage and fee inflation. I doubt that the powers at Uefa are happy at the PL's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Hull, Wigan......Who would ever of thought they would be in the Premier League 5 or 6 years ago.. True, although in both of their cases it's been due to substantial investment from either a wealthy owner (Dave Whelan) or a generous local business (Kingston Communications). If Hull were still at Boothferry Park and Wigan at Springfield Park, they'd both be in League Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_saint Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Hull, Wigan......Who would ever of thought they would be in the Premier League 5 or 6 years ago.. Wigan maybe, they had a fair bit of money put into the club. Hull is a suprise, yeah, but they've had money to spend over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_saint Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Won't ever happen simply due to the sums of money involved. Football at the highest level is more of an entertainment business than a sport these days. Can you honestly see ManYoo and Chelsea agreeing that they're not allowed to spend more in wages than Hull, Stoke and West Brom, thus wiping out one of the main advantages they have over the rest of the Premier League (and European leagues)? United have colossal revenue streams, but what's the point in generating all that revenue if they're being restricted in how they spend it? They'd end up with £150m worth of profits every year with nothing to spend it on... apart from transfer fees, which would then get even more ridiculous than they are already! Feck 'em. Surely UEFA will do something soon? We all know how much they hate the power of the English game. I support the six home grown rule they are trying to bring in, it would be awesome, and hence, it's the teams like Chelsea who are moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac-tics Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 (edited) So who would be in this super league of 20? Is it down to wealth of a club, or re-nowned recognision on the size off the club? (sorry for spelling) Edited 3 September, 2008 by Tac-tics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 I doubt that the powers at Uefa are happy at the PL's strength. That much is obvious by Michel Platini's continued comments about trying to bring in various rules and regulations governing debts, player quotas, etc. Basically, all the things that ensure the top Premier League teams succeed on a regular basis in the Champions League and reap all the financial rewards available there are things that Platini wants to place restrictions on. For example: :: Foreign ownership :: Levels of solvency :: Spending power :: Home-grown players All of those are currently in the favour of Man United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City because they are all owned by foreign investors, they all have massive levels of debt, despite which they still have much bigger spending power over most of the rest of Europe and they don't include many home-grown players. Arsenal buck the trend a little bit because they are still (mostly) owned by British people and they run a fairly tight financial line, although they do have a large debt on the stadium it's a very manageable one with annual income of £200m, although because they don't have the foreign ownership with massive bundles of their own money being used, they don't have anywhere near the same spending power as the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Feck 'em. Surely UEFA will do something soon? What can UEFA do? The clubs would just take them to the EU who would rule on the side of the clubs as a restriction of trade. UEFA simply wouldn't get away with implementing anything along the lines of the 6+5 foreign:home-grown ratio because of EU employment and discrimination legislation. We all know how much they hate the power of the English game. Of course they do, because it means that they have very little power themselves. If they'd actually used their power when they had some to show that they have the interests of the game at heart, they'd have had more respect from the clubs (the former representatives of the G14 in particular) and perhaps might have had more chance of staying in control. They've shown themselves to be utterly clueless on key issues. Racism, for example - they've been preaching an anti-racism policy and that they're going to come down hard on clubs and national associations whose fans break the rules on this, and then they go and fine the Spanish FA £3,000 for the monkey noises aimed at SWP in the Madrid friendly in 2003, and give Rangers a slap on the wrist for sectarian abuse in a European game a year or two back. It's no wonder nobody takes them seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageFace Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 When that happens football dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_saint Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 When that happens football dies. We all get very excited about Netball and Curling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageFace Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 They are probably more exciting than watching the premier league atm, over-hyped rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_saint Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 What can UEFA do? The clubs would just take them to the EU who would rule on the side of the clubs as a restriction of trade. UEFA simply wouldn't get away with implementing anything along the lines of the 6+5 foreign:home-grown ratio because of EU employment and discrimination legislation. Of course they do, because it means that they have very little power themselves. If they'd actually used their power when they had some to show that they have the interests of the game at heart, they'd have had more respect from the clubs (the former representatives of the G14 in particular) and perhaps might have had more chance of staying in control. They've shown themselves to be utterly clueless on key issues. Racism, for example - they've been preaching an anti-racism policy and that they're going to come down hard on clubs and national associations whose fans break the rules on this, and then they go and fine the Spanish FA £3,000 for the monkey noises aimed at SWP in the Madrid friendly in 2003, and give Rangers a slap on the wrist for sectarian abuse in a European game a year or two back. It's no wonder nobody takes them seriously. So why are players getting work permits. I always thought to 'employ' someone outside the EU is the last resort when you can't find anyone within the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 So why are players getting work permits. Players from outside the EU have to fulfil certain criteria in order to get a work permit, something along the lines of having to have featured in 75% of the international matches for that player's country in the last two years that he has been available/eligible for, and that country generally has to be "reasonably" ranked in the FIFA world rankings (top 75, I think). However, of course, the big clubs frequently get away with work permits for players who don't even come close to fulfilling those requirements. Quite how that happens, I'm not too sure. I always thought to 'employ' someone outside the EU is the last resort when you can't find anyone within the EU. I think the overall remit is that you should always employ the best person for the job, regardless of race, nationality, disabilities, etc. If that person happens to come from Brazil rather than Barnet, so be it. That will be the clubs' argument, that the foreign players they bring in are a) better technically than their English equivalent, and b) more cost-effective as transfer fees for English players are always ridiculously over-inflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South City Si Posted 3 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Does anyone have any views on how a 'Super League' could work? Would we have to close it, or could there be away to allow for promotion/relegation? I was thinking bottom 2 go back to their domestic league, replaced by... top 2 of each top domestic league go in to a play-off. |Would mean that Euro league be shorter to allow for longer play-off time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 Does anyone have any views on how a 'Super League' could work? Would we have to close it, or could there be away to allow for promotion/relegation? I was thinking bottom 2 go back to their domestic league, replaced by... top 2 of each top domestic league go in to a play-off. |Would mean that Euro league be shorter to allow for longer play-off time. I'd recommend that the lowest placed team from each country is replaced by the winning side from that country's top league. If 4 clubs from each of England, Italy, France, Spain and Germany (for example) made up the 20 Euroleague spots, there'd be 5 relegations and 5 new additions every season. A nightmare logistically for clubs who bounce in and out of the league but fun for the viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageFace Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 In a ideal world i should be the winners of the league from every country in europe (like the champions league should be) but that doesnt make money, so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 I'd recommend that the lowest placed team from each country is replaced by the winning side from that country's top league. If 4 clubs from each of England, Italy, France, Spain and Germany (for example) made up the 20 Euroleague spots, there'd be 5 relegations and 5 new additions every season. A nightmare logistically for clubs who bounce in and out of the league but fun for the viewer. I quite like this idea, or somethng similar. This league could replace the champs league and as team wouldn't be competing in their own domestic leagues it could conceivably have 24 teams. This could something along the lines of 3 teams from England, Italy, Spain, Germany and France with the other 9 teams made up from the other countries (Holland, Portugal, Russia, Ukraine, Scotland, etc). The bottom 4 could be automatically relegated (to be replaced by a team from their country's league) AND the lowest placed team from each of the major countries (if none from that country is in the bottom 4). Could you imagine the uproar if the Euro league finished with a 1, 2, 3 of say Chelski, Liverpool and ManUre and ManUre were still to be relegated? In a perverse kind of way I would find that quite amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2008 Share Posted 3 September, 2008 so basically...reading the last couple of posts..you want to get rid of the champions league and replace it with, err, a champions league??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 September, 2008 Share Posted 4 September, 2008 yep and now Man c are going to compete with Chelski, it will add to player wage and fee inflation. I doubt that the powers at Uefa are happy at the PL's strength. Whilst i'm not happy about the state of things at the moment, Uefa cannot do anything to stop it. I think the major problem we have with a European league is that big money men are now buying the smaller teams as well - OK, so Man City aren't that small, but I give it two seasons before it becomes a "Big 5". What do we do then? Put all 5 of them into a super league? What if another club, say Everton, are bought out by big money men and are regulars at the top of the table - do we take them as well? I guess the point i'm trying to make is that if we do take the top 4 out now, the Premier League will still attract massive investors - it's marketing is too strong. Eventually there will just be a new top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 September, 2008 Share Posted 4 September, 2008 so basically...reading the last couple of posts..you want to get rid of the champions league and replace it with, err, a champions league??? Does indeed seem a bit pointless - why not just alter the original champions league so that the actual champions participate. That way we won't have to put up with the media banging on about Liverpool going all the way in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 4 September, 2008 Share Posted 4 September, 2008 so basically...reading the last couple of posts..you want to get rid of the champions league and replace it with, err, a champions league??? If you like, but one that does not become a knockout competition and which runs for the entire season. The clubs involved do not participate in a domestic league. So no really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac-tics Posted 5 September, 2008 Share Posted 5 September, 2008 So how would you qualify to participate in this “elite league”? League Positions or Wealth? Surely all these foreign investments and take overs are destroying the core of the game, but who’s to say; maybe it will leave us to get on with it, with all the money grabbing bastards gone? Man United Chelsea Barcelona Real Madrid Inter Milan Juventus Ajax PSV Zennit Man City Bayern HSV Purely based on wealth, not league achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 September, 2008 Share Posted 5 September, 2008 If you like, but one that does not become a knockout competition and which runs for the entire season. The clubs involved do not participate in a domestic league. So no really. isnt that what makes part of the champions league a bit of a spectacle?? be honest, the champions league games on telly are aimed at us all not just the clubs playing, I know I watch the games on telly regularly and really enjoy some of the big clashes in the knockout stages.....the very fact no one wins the thing until the last game where it is ALL still to play for is great for what it is....the idea of the league (as suggested by some on here) not having a knockout phase at all would be boring and will soon enough go the way of another "big 4" or so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 September, 2008 Share Posted 5 September, 2008 Does indeed seem a bit pointless - why not just alter the original champions league so that the actual champions participate. That way we won't have to put up with the media banging on about Liverpool going all the way in Europe. it is two fold...it caters for the traditional big clubs in europe etc..but it also provides more "big" games for us all to watch..not just english clubs but other clashes of big clubs all over europe... if other clubs dont take their chances when they get a sniff of the CL, then whos fault is that...Everton had the chance and blew it...on the other hand, a little club called villareal had the same sniff and have not looked back since..... and it is not the traditional "big 4"....not so long ago, newcastle were strutting their stuff in the CL as were leeds, whos fault is it they they went tits up? not the CL or man utds etc?? no one forces leeds to spend £8m on seth johnson etc if spurs did not bottle it a couple of years ago and blame dodgy food then the balance of power could have easily shifted as that was when arsenal were at a right old transition period!!! I firmly believe that liverpool will drop out of the top four as they generally play dull football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 5 September, 2008 Share Posted 5 September, 2008 Does indeed seem a bit pointless - why not just alter the original champions league so that the actual champions participate. That way we won't have to put up with the media banging on about Liverpool going all the way in Europe. But then those teams who never win the league but seem to always be in the Champions League these days (Liverpool, Arsenal, Sevilla, Roma, Marseille, etc) would kick off because they wouldn't be able to get their grubby hands on that Champions League cash. Someone should try to bring court action against UEFA for misrepresentation or the European equivalent of the Trade Descriptions Act, just for a laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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