Greatest sporting achievement of all time?

[saintwarwick]

Ok, if we are including darts then Phil Taylor is clearly the best of all time !

 

By a country mile and some more.

[skintsaint]

Eric would of ****ted him in his prime, Phil Taylor hasnt had any decent competion for yeearrrs

[Robsk II]

There are some bloody stupid comments on here. How can Woods be the greatest sportsman of all time? Total balderash. It's more of a game than a sport anyway. Sir Steve Redgrave dominated rowing for a massive period, in a sport that requires incredible fitness and mental strength.

 

'Sir' Richard Fox performed a similarly impressive feat, becoming kayak slalom mens World Champion for GB a record TEN times, and many world cup series races besides - also retiring at a ripe age - truly dominant. Precocious talents, genuine rarities. In my mind, the greatest sports are those which test an an athlete to the limit across the board, not one area. The above sports require skill, finesse, technique, mental strengh and work all the fitness sytems. Golf and darts, for all their merits, simply don't. Olympics, world championships, come a lot less than grand slams and majors, too - Federer's achievement deserves plaudits, and footballers who have dominated the game are similarly admirable, etc - but it's very hard to measure achievement in such simple terms. Many athletes have overcome incredible difficulties or hard lives to excel, or even to compete at all. These are no less admirable sometimes.

[chrisobee]

Eric would of ****ted him in his prime, Phil Taylor hasnt had any decent competion for yeearrrs

 

Even Eric does not believe that TBH

 

Bristow says the only game of darts he wished he had never played was the 1990 world title final when Taylor defeated him 6-1.

 

He said: "I would rather have been sitting in the crowd watching him that day, and Phil hasn't changed much since then. "

[Arizona]

Schumacher's domination of F1, during the spend, spend, spend era has to rank up there.

 

During that period Ferrari was easily the best car on the grid though. DOn't get me wrong, Schumacher was a fantastic driver, but during his dominant era I never felt I was watching anything that special.

 

F1 is mainly about the car. I always felt in the same car drivers like Montoya and Raikkonen would have given him a run for his money.

[saintwarwick]

There are some bloody stupid comments on here. How can Woods be the greatest sportsman of all time? Total balderash. It's more of a game than a sport anyway. Sir Steve Redgrave dominated rowing for a massive period, in a sport that requires incredible fitness and mental strength.

 

'Sir' Richard Fox performed a similarly impressive feat, becoming kayak slalom mens World Champion for GB a record TEN times, and many world cup series races besides - also retiring at a ripe age - truly dominant. Precocious talents, genuine rarities. In my mind, the greatest sports are those which test an an athlete to the limit across the board, not one area. The above sports require skill, finesse, technique, mental strengh and work all the fitness sytems. Golf and darts, for all their merits, simply don't. Olympics, world championships, come a lot less than grand slams and majors, too - Federer's achievement deserves plaudits, and footballers who have dominated the game are similarly admirable, etc - but it's very hard to measure achievement in such simple terms. Many athletes have overcome incredible difficulties or hard lives to excel, or even to compete at all. These are no less admirable sometimes.

 

 

Darts and Phil 'the power' Taylor it is then.

[St Will]

There are some bloody stupid comments on here. How can Woods be the greatest sportsman of all time? Total balderash. It's more of a game than a sport anyway. Sir Steve Redgrave dominated rowing for a massive period, in a sport that requires incredible fitness and mental strength.

 

'Sir' Richard Fox performed a similarly impressive feat, becoming kayak slalom mens World Champion for GB a record TEN times, and many world cup series races besides - also retiring at a ripe age - truly dominant. Precocious talents, genuine rarities. In my mind, the greatest sports are those which test an an athlete to the limit across the board, not one area. The above sports require skill, finesse, technique, mental strengh and work all the fitness sytems. Golf and darts, for all their merits, simply don't. Olympics, world championships, come a lot less than grand slams and majors, too - Federer's achievement deserves plaudits, and footballers who have dominated the game are similarly admirable, etc - but it's very hard to measure achievement in such simple terms. Many athletes have overcome incredible difficulties or hard lives to excel, or even to compete at all. These are no less admirable sometimes.

 

Sorry Robsk II, but what you have written about golf is the most idiotic, uneducated rubbish I've ever heard in my life. Golf is nothing like darts!!! In fact, mentioning them in the same sentence is pathetic and shows a lack of knowledge to be honest. ANY sports psychologist with any pedigree will tell you golf is absolutely THE MOST mentally challenging sport. Why? Well 95% of the time, all you're doing is thinking. Because it's not a reactionary sport, you have more time for negative thoughts, more time for doubt, more time to lose trust in what you're doing. If you've ever played golf to any sort of half decent level (which you clearly haven't), you'd know that.

 

To say rowing or kayaking requires more skill and finesse than golf though is also completely ridiculous. Absolute nonsense. Who the hell is Richard Fox?! Never heard of him. Kayak Slaloming....that really popular sport that you always see on Sky. Hmmm....

 

Fitness.....well, I have been told by LaDanian Tomlinson (played golf with him in San Diego a few times), who is one of the best players in the NFL - a total athlete, and friends with Tiger Woods - that Tiger is THE most superior athlete of anyone in ANY sport. The guy's fitness and strength levels, and the amount of time he works on them, are obscene. To say that it's 'total balderdash' that he's the greatest sportsman ever, is also, again, uneducated rubbish. Redgrave and rowing?!?!?! He's bigged up and hailed as so great here in England because very few English sports personalities ever succeed on the world stage. Go to 90% of the other countries around the world and nobody will ever have heard of him. Everyone knows who Tiger Woods is. When he plays in a tournament, television ratings increase by at least a third. That's why he's the most endorsed, richest sportsman in the world. He makes Beckham look poor. He's made more money than Schumacher, Michael Jordan, David Beckham, Andre Agassi, Peyton Manning, Shaquille O'Neal....the lot. He'll be the first sportsman ever to make a billion, and he'll do it by next year. And that's not opinion, that's fact.

 

I'm sure Nike, the biggest SPORTS brand in the world, would really pay Tiger $50million a year because he plays a 'game' and not a sport. Gatorade (SPORTS drink company) pay him $100million over 5 years.

 

In 2008, he was the highest paid professional athlete, having made $110million from winnings and endorsements. (Wickpedia)

 

And let's look at the achievements side of things. Tiger has won 14 majors. The majors are the 'Olympics' of golf. Yes, there are 4 every year, rather than 1 every 4 years, but Tiger has won 14. Redgrave has won 5. Redgrave hasn't done it by himself either. He's always had a teammate or teammates. Tiger goes out, by himself, and has to beat 150 players every week. He's won 68 events in America, 36 in Europe and 17 elsewhere. The guy is smashing every record in the sport, and he's not even half way through his career.

 

Robsk II, your views on golf are outdated and inaccurate. Golf is very much about fitness and strength these days. There are the odd one or two who aren't as fit and strong as they ought to be, but they don't win very often. And I think, because of the traditions of golf, the clothing they wear often masks how athletic a lot of them are. But one thing that definitely hasn't changed about golf.....it IS a sport, and it requires a huge amount of skill, a lot of guile and finesse, and to be successful you have to be incredibly talented and have fantastic hand-eye coordination. I think your views are based on seeing old blokes going down the local golf course duffing the ball around. Professional golf is nothing like that, at all.

[Robsk II]

Well, Will, I think you read rather too much into the fact that I had darts and golf in the same line. I rate golf far higher than darts in sporting terms, as it is clearly more of a game the way I term it. Calling me idiotic and pathetic shows that you are a dullard. I never claimed to know much about gold, but it's clearly not as 'pure' a sport as some others. That's fine, it still takes greatness to be the best at it. As for your slagging off minority sports, it is quite evidently YOU who are entirely uninformed. Rowing is less technical, but it makes no difference that you don't see canoeing on Sky. I know for a fact that it is as technical a sport as anything you could ever mention, and requires far more fitness in every sense than golf, and no shortage of mental strengh. This isn't a dreict competition between them - golf is a hugely popular pursuit for a reason, but it is a very narrow focus. You can't tell me that Tiger Woods is stronger than sports some of those sprinters. You can't tell me he's as fit as truly fit athletes. You can try, but you'd be a liar, simple as that. He gets paid a lot, rightly, as he is incredibly good at what he does - yet golf is primarily skill based. How much he gets paid and if it's on Sky being important in your eyes are indicative of the fact that you are a generic populist cretin. These things in no way measure a sport - just the status quo of a cultures interest. Anyway - Paul Ratcliffe, someone rather more recent, was world ranked number one for several years, and he was sponsored by Adidas, if that impresses you. As it happens, other sports get a lot more coverage elsewhere. In Germany and France, and even more so in Eastern Europe, international kayak slalom races DO get coverage. I should know, I've been on TV in those competing in international races. I've raced against olympic medallists several times. Of course this is about me defending my sport to an extent, but only because you attacked what it was without cause. I know a whole lot more about golf than you do about other sport, by the sound of it, and your derision about a sport just because it isn't 'big' is simply closeted. Is surfing on TV? Not much. is it highly technical and skilful? Yes. Snowboarding? Yes. Skateboarding? Yes. Just because you're some fuddy-duddy with a typically conservative outlook, don't bring your money and image based prejudice here. Tiger Woods is a great sportsman, perhaps, and incredibly skilled - but he's no athlete compared to the likes of Usain Bolt.

 

Oh, and I know a couple of sports psychologists from when I was working with them directly - I shall be sure to ask them their iew, seeing as, according to "Mr informed", ALL of them asy golf is the most mentally challenging sport. Ever tried a sport where you die if you get it wrong? Serious climbing, for example? You clearly haven't done many sports to any level if you think golf alone requires mental strength. We had minutes, hours, days, weeks of varying types and levels of pressure. Any sport in the world gets pretty intense at high levels.

 

What an idiot.

[Rut]

Peter Dowdeswell holds 309 world records - including 90 pints of beer in 3 hours. Now that is a talent:

 

http://www.peterdowdeswell.com/

 

He is the best in the world at eating & drinking.

 

Praps not an athlete in the traditional sense but still an outrageous talent that shouldn't go without recognition.

 

Great youtube about him here:

 

[Robsk II]

Scratch all of the above, this Dowdswell fellow is a genius. nay, a saint.

[skintsaint]

why was I expecting a fat yank

[St Will]

Robsk, you're defending your sport, I'm defending mine. I'm not some fuddy duddy, I play golf professionally. I'm 26, currently actively playing my sport professionally. I've played in tournaments all over the US and in the UK and some of Europe. You've attacked my sport as well, comparing it to darts and saying it's a game and not a sport. To say you know more about golf than I know about other sports is ridiculous. I know little about watersports, because they are, as you've even said yourself, a minority sport.

 

To grade sports on whether or not you're risking your life or not, is very silly. 'Sport' is pitching up against your fellow man or women and competing to see how well you do in a fast field of winners. It's about showing your talent, seeing how you do against other people, and trying to be the best. It has nothing to do with "well I was closer to dying, so I must be a more complete and more head strong athlete than you". I have worked with THE BEST sports psychologist in Europe, Jamil Qureshi, who works with Premiership footballers, Premiership football teams, golfers, cricketers....you name it, he's worked with them. He has said to me many times golf is the hardest game mentally. Because almost every part of golf, you have no control over what happens. And you have more time to think than in any sport.

 

I used the example of Tiger and how much money he makes to make the simple point that golf IS a sport. You said it was a game. Tiger would not be the best paid sportsman if he played a game and not a sport. Golf would not be shown on the sports channels if it's a game and not a sport.

 

Golf is not 'primarily skill based'. It used to be. But it's not now. Half of my tournament preparation is in the gym. Tiger's more so. He does an hour and a half's cardio at 5 in the morning, than a weights session, then all his golf, and another weights session at the end of the day. Plus flexibility work. You have to be an athlete in golf now, to be able to be powerful to hit the ball the distances required, and to prolong your career. The golf swing is the most unnatural movement you can make - the amount of injuries you can get, considering it's a non contact sport, is a joke.

 

And let me tell you something. If Tiger wanted to be the best 400 metre runner in the world, he could have become one. He was an outstanding athlete in school and college. He's the greatest sportsman ever, in my eyes, because he's the kind of guy who would be the best at anything he wanted to be the best at. He's more of a winner than any other sportsman out there, and is, without doubt (in my eyes) more driven to be the best than any other sportsman.

[Rattlehead]

Jermaine Wright nearly sprinted 3 metres once.

[Thedelldays]

Jermaine Wright nearly sprinted 3 metres once.

lol

[Hatch]

I can't believe I have only just thought of this one.

 

Hulk Hogan

[Robsk II]

Will, I never said I was close to dying, certainly never was in a race. I'm just saying that in some sports it's quite a possibility, and it focuses the mind. Minority sport does not a bad sport make, it just doesn't appeal to the majority - and let's face it, most music, film etc which appeals to the majority does so because it is generic and takes risks. Many of the best films are not commerically succesful or mainstream. As for your sports pyschologist, he WOULD say that about golf, seeing as he was working with a golfer. They do that.. I worked with someone who emigrated to Oz because he was headhunted to be the sp. psych. for the Oz Rugby team. You're genuinely not alone at having competed to a high level, regardless of your perceptions of popularity - even so, thousands and thousands of people do forms of canoeing in this country anyway.

 

I have to say that, regardless of how good an athlete tiger woods is, nothing will change my perception that golf is more skill based than fitness. That's not even a critique, just something I consdier a fact. Just because you like the bloke, that hardly means there aren't other athletes held in similarly hgh esteem. Maybe many others could have excelled in other sports, too. Some have, even. Frankly, trying to decide ONE greatest sportsman or achievement is pretty daft, given that no-one knows all sports or what each athlete is naturally capable of, or their story. All have relative differences - I would never dispute that Woods has a mastery of golf that is only comparable to some of the greatest sporting names, within other fields - but you should be more open minded. If you knew more about other sports, and the patronage other countries give them, you would be surprised, and you would value them more - beyond popularity and money - and you really would understand the mammoth achievements of people like Richard Fox. You can choose not to believe me, but I am telling you as a fan of other sports, what he did was exceptional. Dominating a sport requiring all types of fitness, skill, co-ordination, response, finesse, mental strength, power, speed.. for such a long period, against, in the end, much younger men, more theoretically 'peak' - was an incredible feat. Truly up there with the likes of Woods, in his own way, credit it or not. Global domination of a sport over a long time, to awe the entire sporting world.

[Weston Super Saint]

Steve Curtis.

[mynameisthehulk]

68 Overs 27 Maidens 90 Runs 19 Wickets

[Hatch]

- and you really would understand the mammoth achievements of people like Richard Fox. You can choose not to believe me, but I am telling you as a fan of other sports, what he did was exceptional. Dominating a sport requiring all types of fitness, skill, co-ordination, response, finesse, mental strength, power, speed.. for such a long period, against, in the end, much younger men, more theoretically 'peak' - was an incredible feat. Truly up there with the likes of Woods, in his own way, credit it or not. Global domination of a sport over a long time, to awe the entire sporting world.

 

 

for sake of an argument, I would say it is harder to become number 1 in the world in a sport played by billions, than number one in the world in a sport played by about 30.

[Robsk II]

I wouldn't argue with that, but I would sugget that high level golf is played by many, many fewer, and that hundreds of thousands of people do canoeing / kayaking. Certainly more than do rowing. This is a fact. Either way - to get to the very top, and beat others who train and work and commit as much as top competitors from any other sport - still means you are special within it. Even if that's tiddlywinks. Richard Fox was a fair few years ago, and he was acutally vaguely known at the time.

[saintsdan]

68 Overs 27 Maidens 90 Runs 19 Wickets

 

Good shout, 19 wickets in an Ashes test is pretty impressive.

 

I think there are two different discussions going on in this thread.

 

The original comment was about the possibility of Tom Watson winning the open at 59 i.e. a one off event as the greatest sporting achievement and I think Jesse Owens or Lance Armstrong (for his first tour win) both deserve a shout.

 

For Armstrong to come back from where he did with cancer in his lungs and brain, having been given a 20% chance of survival and undergone chemotherapy and brain surgery, to win the toughest sporting event of all was an incredible achievement.

 

As for Jesse Owens, 4 track and field gold medals at one olympics in probably the most politically hostile environment a sportsman has faced, a black American athlete in Berlin in 1936, was also some achievement.

 

As far as greatest sportsman Richard Fox and Tiger Woods, are clearly both great sportsman but both, and any one else, would have to go some to beat the record of Eddy Merckx (as mentioned by Bungle), whose achievements included: -

 

Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525.

Most victories in one season: 54.

Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34.

Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976).

Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96.

The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969).

Most victories in classics: 28.

Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan-Sanremo).

Most Grand Tour Victories 11 (He won all 3 at least once).

 

He was also world road race champion 3 times, and one of only two men to do the double of world amateur champion and world professional champion, and held the world hour record.

[Hatch]

Mark Todd and Charisma

[swannymere]

He's more of a winner than any other sportsman out there, and is, without doubt (in my eyes) more driven to be the best than any other sportsman.

 

Yep, Lance Armstrong isn't a winner and isn't driven at all Golf is nothing more than a pastime, get over yourself.

[Weston Super Saint]

Yep, Lance Armstrong isn't a winner and isn't driven at all Golf is nothing more than a pastime, get over yourself.

 

But cycling is just a mode of transport

[St Will]

Yep, Lance Armstrong isn't a winner and isn't driven at all Golf is nothing more than a pastime, get over yourself.

 

I never said nobody else was a winner and is driven. I said Tiger Woods was more driven than any other sportsman. Pastime? Utter nonsense. Idiotic post from a, no doubt, uneducated moron, with very little intelligence.

[Dog]

Tiger Woods by a mile.

[swannymere]

I never said nobody else was a winner and is driven. I said Tiger Woods was more driven than any other sportsman. Pastime? Utter nonsense. Idiotic post from a, no doubt, uneducated moron, with very little intelligence.

 

Actually, only partly correct. So no actual argument just insults? Who's really the uneducated moron? Don't bother responding save your energy for the range;)

[St Landrew]

Was thinking about how loosely people are assuming sports to be. We have Darts, Snooker, and Golf. To me, these are not sports, as such, but games. They do not require one to train for long hours to be the best, although practice makes better, there is no doubt. And I suspect I feel that Golf is the game that gets closest to being a sport, while still being just a game. The highest level of sports require that the sportsman be at the peak of their condition, whether they be footballers, rowers, sprinters, riders or drivers. In the last Olympics, the Aussies said that Team GB were good at every sport where the contestants competed on their arses. And that was a very good observation, which might make the average person think that those sports are not as exhausting as others. Well, I can tell you as a dinghy [and keelboat] sailor of many years, that it is bloody exhausting, and you do need to be extremely fit to race an Olympic dinghy class boat. I doubt I could do it. But there are other pastimes which could be classed as sport, if we're going to stretch a point. And here, I'll nominate another candidate as greatest ever - Ellen MacArthur. I have the upmost respect for her as a sportsperson.

 

But stretching that point again, I have to include people who have beaten the trail to the point that the impossible becomes possible, and is now competition. Here I'll include Robin Knox-Johnston, who is an example to everyone that personal and world boundaries can be pushed, in almost any direction. But the personification of my point is Ranulph Fiennes. I have so much utter respect for that bloke and his achievements as a person to be first. His strengths are everything I am not, but strive for, as I get older. To him, limitations are there, not just to be challenged, but completely overrun. If you don't believe me, try running 7 marathons in 7 days on 7 different continents. He did, and only 4 months after a heart bypass operation.

 

People who play sport extremely well aren't driven in the way most people acknowledge the term. That suggests they are doing something against all the odds, and they'd rather be doing something else. Most sportsman love the sport they are involved in. It takes drive to be at the top, but when, like Fiennes, you are actually doing something you don't particularly enjoy, i.e. crossing the polar caps, that takes real drive to be the best. Something that the ordinary star sports person could only dream about.

[St Will]

Actually, only partly correct. So no actual argument just insults? Who's really the uneducated moron? Don't bother responding save your energy for the range;)

 

Well I hardly find what you wrote to be much of an argument, and just an insult in itself. To suggest that the sport I play as a profession is just a pastime and I need to get over myself.....that's hardly a valid point made, and just insulting. And it does show a lack of intelligence because if you did have anything between your ears you'd know enough about it to accept it as a sport.

[St Will]

Was thinking about how loosely people are assuming sports to be. We have Darts, Snooker, and Golf. To me, these are not sports, as such, but games. They do not require one to train for long hours to be the best, although practice makes better, there is no doubt. And I suspect I feel that Golf is the game that gets closest to being a sport, while still being just a game.

 

I'm staggered that people put golf in the same category as things like darts and snooker. I'm sorry, but this opinion is outdated, inaccurate, and shows lack of knowledge!!! Golf DOES require a lot of hard training. I spend at least 2 hours a day in the gym, working my arse off with intense workouts, on top of 6-8 hours practise everyday. The top guys who are obsessed with fitness spend 4-6 hours a day in the gym. Golf is no longer about guys with beer bellies going out and playing in the Ryder Cup with cans of beer in their hands like Brian Barnes used to.

 

Fitness is very important in golf. Firstly, you need to be strong, then you need the speed to be able to use that strength as a benefit, to hit the ball further. So not only do golfers do strength training, they do plyometrics too. Then, when you're playing professional golf, when it's your livelihood and there is pressure on every shot, it's important to be able to control your heart rate. So we do cardio work too. Then there's flexibility work for range of movement, and a lot of core strength is required.

 

I think a lot of people see golf a pastime or a game because you see all the old guys going down to the golf club and having a leisurely round of golf....and maybe you do it yourselves. In that case, how about those people who have a gentle game of tennis, or have a gentle bike ride of a bit of exercise? Or those who have a kick around in the park. Those people won't have trained hard to do those things. Does that make tennis, cycling, football, or anything else that some people do as a 'pastime' not a sport?!

 

The truth is, you guys who think golf isn't a sport don't play golf as a sport. You either don't play it at all, or you play it as a way to relax. Which is fine. But it's a sport if you treat it like one. I don't mean to offend people, but it is simply ignorance to suggest it's anything otherwise. The most dominant and successful sportsman today is a golfer. So it's a sport. End of.

 

To put it in the same sentence as golf or snooker as ridiculous. How many fat, drunken, darts player stereotypes did you see playing in the Open this year? None. Maybe John Daly and Mark Calcavecchia are a bit fat and overweight. But so's that guy Parkin who plays up front for Preston, and Andy Reid. The rest of the golfers are fit and in shape. Tiger, Adam Scott, Paul Casey, Johan Edfors - they're the prime examples. I tell ya what, they're fitter than those jokers who show out for our beloved team every week. Going to call football a pastime now? No, didn't think so.

[bungle]

Phil "The Power" Taylor does fitness training now, and about 6 hours a day on the dart board. That is why he is a 13-time world champion, and not Wayne Mardle.

[saintwarwick]

Well I hardly find what you wrote to be much of an argument, and just an insult in itself. To suggest that the sport I play as a profession is just a pastime and I need to get over myself.....that's hardly a valid point made, and just insulting. And it does show a lack of intelligence because if you did have anything between your ears you'd know enough about it to accept it as a sport.

 

Exactly on your point of Richard Fox in Kayaking, something you have admitted you know nothing about yet seem to think golfers have to be superbly fit unlike other sports such as this one. You even had the cheek to say Steven Redgrave relied on others to achieve what he did, does that mean he did not have to train but leave it to the others he relied on? Maybe as a golfer you should try these other sports and find out for yourself how 'easy' life is in any sport away from golf.

[the stain]

I actually have the biggest penis. As such I get to decide what is and is not a sport. Having the biggest penis is the greatest sport, and I have reached the pinnacle. My masive penis is the Greatest Sporting Achievement and I am the Greatest Sportsman.

 

:smt065

[Hatch]

I actually have the biggest penis. As such I get to decide what is and is not a sport. Having the biggest penis is the greatest sport, and I have reached the pinnacle. My masive penis is the Greatest Sporting Achievement and I am the Greatest Sportsman.

 

:smt065

 

 

I challenge you to a duel!

[doublesaint]

Definitions of sport...

 

an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition

the occupation of athletes who compete for pay

Competitive games and sport which are characterised by the acceptance of rules and responses to opposing challenge

Council of Europe definition of sport: "Sport" means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being, forming social relationships or obtaining results in competition at all levels.

 

So take your pick from whaever definition you prefer, there is clearly room for darts/snooker/golf, and all other more traditional sports.

Ps mountain exploring and trekking across ice is definitely not a sport, it is a mere past time.

[swannymere]

And it does show a lack of intelligence because if you did have anything between your ears you'd know enough about it to accept it as a sport.

 

So anybody who doesn't share your point of view is unintelligent, that's a well thought out opinion, btw if it lumps me in with St Landrew then that's fine by me.

[the stain]

I challenge you to a duel!

 

It's called a 'rubber'.

[chrisobee]

Phil "The Power" Taylor does fitness training now, and about 6 hours a day on the dart board. That is why he is a 13-time world champion, and not Wayne Mardle.

 

Taylor probably practices as much if not more than 90% + of sportsmen and women. A few years ago he actually lost in the World Champs and one major reason was that his weight loss affected his balance ! To be at the top of any profession for 20 years is amazing by any standards and it is no coincidence all the top players join the PDC eventually and he now has to play even better as players like Wade, Van Barneveld, Anderson and King are all capable of averaging 100+, Taylor though is regularly above 105. Whichever way you cut it Taylor is an incredible darts player and no one comes close and that includes Bristow who was the player I loved to watch in the 80's and I'm a great fan of his.

[Pilchards]

Read this thread and I can't believe Michael Johnston has not been mentioned.

 

Over the course of 400 metres he beat the field by over 30 metres.

The man was a running freak who's record has not been touched for 10 years.

 

Sir Redgrave is in my top 5 with the Tiger too.

Great sporting talents indeed.

[OLYMPIC]

John Surtees a world champion on 2 wheels as well as 4 now it takes some doing to be a champion in 2 completely different sports.

[St Will]

So anybody who doesn't share your point of view is unintelligent, that's a well thought out opinion, btw if it lumps me in with St Landrew then that's fine by me.

 

No no, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But your opinion is completely ridiculous, so yes, you are unintelligent. And anyone else who shares your opinion is also unintelligent. HTH.

[Robsk II]

You really do pro golfers a lot of favours with the continual abuse.

 

The bottom line is that anyone who excels in their field, game or sport, or whatever, should be given plaudits. I never, ever said Woods wasn't excellent, and would never deny his dominance, or ability. The thing is, you apparently WOULD deride the sports of others, and then have a go at everyone else for being ignorant about how you view golf - despite admitting to heavily critique sports you know nothing about yourself. Competitors at the highest levels in other sports, minority, as you see them, or otherwise - must still be excellent. There are sports that work you ahrder all round than golf, but that's not to take it away from golf. It's a different skillset, that's all. Maybe Woods does train his ass off, but you can get to a very good level without doing so in golf. In others, the vast majority of the higher echelons are incredibly conditioned. You can get away with more in golf because it DOES require skill above all else. How you can argue this is beyond me. Anyone in division 2 upwards in my old sport had to be really pretty damn fit. No-one in the premier division can afford to be even slightly out of condition. We trained all winter to reassert our aerobic, anaerobic etc.. AND they are all highly skilled. You can't cut it at a decent level without a good spread across the whole sporting competency field. So don't simply write everything else off. Richard Fox was certainly as dominant as Woods within a different context, and you know nothing about it. If you're going to have strong opinions, I suggest you are willing to be more tolerant of that of others.

[Wiltshire Saint]

I'm staggered that people put golf in the same category as things like darts and snooker. I'm sorry, but this opinion is outdated, inaccurate, and shows lack of knowledge!!! Golf DOES require a lot of hard training. I spend at least 2 hours a day in the gym, working my arse off with intense workouts, on top of 6-8 hours practise everyday. The top guys who are obsessed with fitness spend 4-6 hours a day in the gym. Golf is no longer about guys with beer bellies going out and playing in the Ryder Cup with cans of beer in their hands like Brian Barnes used to.

 

Fitness is very important in golf. Firstly, you need to be strong, then you need the speed to be able to use that strength as a benefit, to hit the ball further. So not only do golfers do strength training, they do plyometrics too. Then, when you're playing professional golf, when it's your livelihood and there is pressure on every shot, it's important to be able to control your heart rate. So we do cardio work too. Then there's flexibility work for range of movement, and a lot of core strength is required.

 

I think a lot of people see golf a pastime or a game because you see all the old guys going down to the golf club and having a leisurely round of golf....and maybe you do it yourselves. In that case, how about those people who have a gentle game of tennis, or have a gentle bike ride of a bit of exercise? Or those who have a kick around in the park. Those people won't have trained hard to do those things. Does that make tennis, cycling, football, or anything else that some people do as a 'pastime' not a sport?!

 

The truth is, you guys who think golf isn't a sport don't play golf as a sport. You either don't play it at all, or you play it as a way to relax. Which is fine. But it's a sport if you treat it like one. I don't mean to offend people, but it is simply ignorance to suggest it's anything otherwise. The most dominant and successful sportsman today is a golfer. So it's a sport. End of.

 

To put it in the same sentence as golf or snooker as ridiculous. How many fat, drunken, darts player stereotypes did you see playing in the Open this year? None. Maybe John Daly and Mark Calcavecchia are a bit fat and overweight. But so's that guy Parkin who plays up front for Preston, and Andy Reid. The rest of the golfers are fit and in shape. Tiger, Adam Scott, Paul Casey, Johan Edfors - they're the prime examples. I tell ya what, they're fitter than those jokers who show out for our beloved team every week. Going to call football a pastime now? No, didn't think so.

 

I have played crazy golf, which I don't imagine is that different from the version you play, and I don't train anything like what you do. Maybe you just aren't cut out for this game? Try something else, maybe darts?

[Robsk II]

[St Will]

You really do pro golfers a lot of favours with the continual abuse.

 

The bottom line is that anyone who excels in their field, game or sport, or whatever, should be given plaudits. I never, ever said Woods wasn't excellent, and would never deny his dominance, or ability. The thing is, you apparently WOULD deride the sports of others, and then have a go at everyone else for being ignorant about how you view golf - despite admitting to heavily critique sports you know nothing about yourself. Competitors at the highest levels in other sports, minority, as you see them, or otherwise - must still be excellent. There are sports that work you ahrder all round than golf, but that's not to take it away from golf. It's a different skillset, that's all. Maybe Woods does train his ass off, but you can get to a very good level without doing so in golf. In others, the vast majority of the higher echelons are incredibly conditioned. You can get away with more in golf because it DOES require skill above all else. How you can argue this is beyond me. Anyone in division 2 upwards in my old sport had to be really pretty damn fit. No-one in the premier division can afford to be even slightly out of condition. We trained all winter to reassert our aerobic, anaerobic etc.. AND they are all highly skilled. You can't cut it at a decent level without a good spread across the whole sporting competency field. So don't simply write everything else off. Richard Fox was certainly as dominant as Woods within a different context, and you know nothing about it. If you're going to have strong opinions, I suggest you are willing to be more tolerant of that of others.

 

Hang on a minute, at what ****ing point did I deride any other sports?! Read through everything I've written. Come on, where did I deride any other sports?!?!? YOU'RE the idiot who came on here and said golf isn't even a sport. I haven't said anything negative about your sport or any other sport for that matter. You're the one who started this ridiculous discussion by making a ridiculous remark, just remember that. If someone says something stupid I will tell them, if they don't like it, it's their problem.

 

It isn't my fault people are so ignorant and pig thick that they can't even decipher what a flipping sport is. All I've done is made my point that golf is a sport and Woods is a league above pretty much any sportsman active today. Simple as. At what point did I knock any sport? Never. I claimed that Woods is more dominant than other sportsmen in other fields. That's it.

 

I would suggest that it's YOU who knows nothing about golf, rather than me knowing nothing about kayaking, that is causing this whole argument. Because if you knew anything about golf whatsoever, you wouldn't have made your original point (in case you need reminding, "How can Woods be the greatest sportsman of all time. Totl Balderdash. It's more of a game than a sport anyway" - idiot), and you wouldn't be making the embarrassing comparison between this Richard Fox and Tiger Woods. I've been and researched this Richard Fox guy, just for the sake of proving my point to myself, if nobody else, and I still can't see how you could possibly compare the two. Woods has achieved far more, and he still has 15, 20 or even more years left in his career!! And there is no doubt that the level of competition that Woods faces week in, week out, is/was far greater in terms of talent and number of players than Richard Fox had to face.

[Rattlehead]

Kayaking isn't a sport - that's just for fun.

[Robsk II]

You see? You have no idea, but make sweeping generalisations and statements. You don't KNOW every sport going on in the world right now. Even if there are less competitors, that doesn't mean someone doesn't also happen to be an incredible natural talent who would dominate regardless of numbers. And as discussed already, the number of golfers who are pro or have that aspiration really isn't that high either. maybe the best sportsperson is a kabadi player, but you would have NO IDEA. You have clearly derided other sports. You claim that golf requires mroe skill than some other sports, without having ANY knowledge or experience of them. You mock other sports for not being on TV, oh no! Tiger Woods is great, but saying he could've been the best at anything ever if he wanted demonstrates your total lack of objectivity. Being a natural golfer, who also works hard to capitalise on potential, does not mean you could have won an olympic 400m. The rest of us are not ignorant, we're just more objective than you, and don't masturbate over pictures of Woods. You ****ing pillock.

[Robsk II]

Kayaking isn't a sport - that's just for fun.

 

I'm not even going to bother with you.

[Rattlehead]

Boooooooooooooo.

[swannymere]

Oooh err. Golf is a game argument is on the Times letters page today! I don't think st.willy can be a pro-golfer as he spends far too much time losing arguments on here, rather than practicing his stroke :confused: