shurlock Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 (edited) thats the man so you are right there. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1691375,00.html Training went on until past 1 and i had to leave then. I have seen Burley, Strachan, Hoddle and now Pardew on there first training sessions at staplewood and Pardew really does look the boss. Stopped everything and spoke about everything. the best part that i enjoyed was almost something from the matrix... he rolled the ball into an attacking flank and asked the players to get into position within ten seconds as someone would eventually reach the ball. Once they got there he blew up his whistle and then looked at everyone to see if they had the brains to know where they had to be. He was not happy at all as the players lack knowledge. I honestly mean this when i say they are lost on the pitch. Pardew made it clear what he wants and he was always making his point every 15 seconds for over a period of 90 minutes. The lame header bit was funny as Pulis let it fluff off his head so Pardew threw his whistle to the ground and held his hands on knees for at least 10 seconds while shaking his head at the same time. He shouted why? what was that? before he showed them how to do press ups to the whole back four. He added two high energy green bib players every now and again to spice us up, i presume this is the extra option of defenders supporting the attack, Was Gillet and James at first as they had the freedom to get the ball to the flanks but nothing was allowed to go over head height. He also did some other stuff discussed in the centre circle, this a tactic he will employ on the touchline as the players will do something? (editted as this could harm our tactics) Also another code was hands on his knees or someone else will which does something? So deep in tactics i say and i reckon this team had better sort it out otherwise they are dropped end of. It was hard to say who was impressive today as it was all stop, start. I must add that Stern John had some nice flicks and plenty of smiles and hand gestures like Beattie would do years ago as the Mr funny man. Pardew lacked a 2nd man today as Henderson stood on the half way line watching for 90 minutes as Pardew took the lot, I think he needed another coach to talk to some players on a one to one while Pardew was making his point to the whole team. We really do have a great boss and Im chuffed he got straight down to the tactics and the know how of football, These things take time and im sure our boys will respond to it quickly too. He is without doubt a Strachan type but much more vocal and slightly more angry at times. COYR for the new season as I cant wait for Pardew to get a grip on them all and take us to where we belong. Thanks for this. Fascinating detail. Edited 20 July, 2009 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Best footbal related read on here for months, Thanks Pilchard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 (edited) The academy has produced good players surely Bale Walcott McGoldrick Cranie Mills James Surman Poke Howard Davies Baird Blackstock prove that Yes but that was the fully-funded academy, not the one of the last couple of seasons. Great insight though and I love the way Pardew is taking them to task. He's been used to good quality players and then he comes across the likes of Pulis and Lancashire - must be a shock. Still, Stern John sounds motivated and he will score lots at this level. Edited 20 July, 2009 by saint1977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 thats the man so you are right there. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~1691375,00.html Training went on until past 1 and i had to leave then. I have seen Burley, Strachan, Hoddle and now Pardew on there first training sessions at staplewood and Pardew really does look the boss. Stopped everything and spoke about everything. the best part that i enjoyed was almost something from the matrix... he rolled the ball into an attacking flank and asked the players to get into position within ten seconds as someone would eventually reach the ball. Once they got there he blew up his whistle and then looked at everyone to see if they had the brains to know where they had to be. He was not happy at all as the players lack knowledge. I honestly mean this when i say they are lost on the pitch. Pardew made it clear what he wants and he was always making his point every 15 seconds for over a period of 90 minutes. The lame header bit was funny as Pulis let it fluff off his head so Pardew threw his whistle to the ground and held his hands on knees for at least 10 seconds while shaking his head at the same time. He shouted why? what was that? before he showed them how to do press ups to the whole back four. He added two high energy green bib players every now and again to spice us up, i presume this is the extra option of defenders supporting the attack, Was Gillet and James at first as they had the freedom to get the ball to the flanks but nothing was allowed to go over head height. He also did some other stuff discussed in the centre circle, this a tactic he will employ on the touchline as the players will do something? (editted as this could harm our tactics) Also another code was hands on his knees or someone else will which does something? So deep in tactics i say and i reckon this team had better sort it out otherwise they are dropped end of. It was hard to say who was impressive today as it was all stop, start. I must add that Stern John had some nice flicks and plenty of smiles and hand gestures like Beattie would do years ago as the Mr funny man. Pardew lacked a 2nd man today as Henderson stood on the half way line watching for 90 minutes as Pardew took the lot, I think he needed another coach to talk to some players on a one to one while Pardew was making his point to the whole team. We really do have a great boss and Im chuffed he got straight down to the tactics and the know how of football, These things take time and im sure our boys will respond to it quickly too. He is without doubt a Strachan type but much more vocal and slightly more angry at times. COYR for the new season as I cant wait for Pardew to get a grip on them all and take us to where we belong.[/quote Feel so good about this, COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 The academy has produced good players surely Bale Walcott McGoldrick Cranie Mills James Surman Poke Howard Davies Baird Blackstock prove that i suppose the answer to your question is are any of them regular starters for their current teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaffer Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 No chance as Pardew gun forces will be hunting me down! Seriously they need to get on with it now and in secret too. Totally agree great insight into AP and great post by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I fear it may get worse first - stopping doing what they were doing but not sure of the new way etc I know what you mean. However, it seemed to me last season that the teams with the basic tactics (those that got simple pass and move triangulation right) were the teams that we struggled against. For the nonsense spouted about attractive football, we failed to produce the basics well. So my hope is that AP will start to drill some that stuff back into the players and they quickly pick up on this. Let's face it, it's stuff we all learn at junior freaking club level!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 i suppose the answer to your question is are any of them regular starters for their current teams. So what is your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaffer Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 What is wrong with our deluded coaches is summed up in the following assessment of Paul Wotton's game on Saturday. "Paul Wotton had a very good first half, both defensively and his simple use of the ball. He did what I asked him to and played his position very well" With coaches like him we don't need opponents. Wotton on Saturday was awful. Most of his 'simple' passes went to the opposition time after time, his marking was non existent, he consistently gave free kicks away, he disrupted his own midfield and got in the way of the centre backs attacking the ball. If he never played for us again it would be too soon. If this is the man running the academy no wonder the players are now struggling. The mere fact Lallana/McGoldrick don't cleanly strike the ball is a massive indictment in itself. It wouldn't surprise me to see him and the other coaches dispensed with as their contracts run out or even earlier. Totally agree Dave apart from two things! His first touch and control are abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 agreed but i suspect he is discovering that we do not have the players to do it. it also puts a big question mark over what the Academy has been producing, technical players who cannot play in a game? Blimey, someone other than me questioning what the eff our glorious academy has been turning out. I've been banging on for a couple of years at least that myopia set in after Walcott. To think "the one we must not mention" hung the whole future of the club on it! Good grief!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Blimey, someone other than me questioning what the eff our glorious academy has been turning out. I've been banging on for a couple of years at least that myopia set in after Walcott. To think "the one we must not mention" hung the whole future of the club on it! Good grief!!!!! Just goes to show the man knew F all about football and F all about business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 We clearly need more pace and power all over the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Great stuff Pichards. Looks an encouraging start, the players are getting exactly what they need - a hard time of it. My only fear is that we are close to the start of the season and there appears to be much work to do. Sounds like AP needs to get an assistant sorted (Kevin Dillon or whoever) so he can also take a look at the other coaching staff and assess whether they are up to it & what roles they are suited to. Wasn't at the game on Saturday so its difficult to assess how accurate Hendersons comments about Wooton are, but it may be that coming from the academy background, he is used to handling situations slightly differently to a seasoned pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I have been wondering the same. Even SH may not be safe After Saturday especially SH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I fear it may get worse first - stopping doing what they were doing but not sure of the new way etc I'm not looking for success just evidence of drastic change in the pipeline. I will see that in an instant if it is there, that is what I am looking forward to. He strikes me as a man in a hurry, I don't expect a lot of leeway for those that can't cope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildgoose Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 (edited) After Saturday especially SH. Oh Well, if it needs a new brush to sweep clean, bring it on! Might as well go the whole way.....SH has been a good servant for many years but there's a time for everything. Edited 20 July, 2009 by Wildgoose typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 After Saturday especially SH. And I presume Hockaday had no chance at all either????? How about Henderson back to the youth teams somewhere????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I know what you mean. However, it seemed to me last season that the teams with the basic tactics (those that got simple pass and move triangulation right) were the teams that we struggled against. For the nonsense spouted about attractive football, we failed to produce the basics well. So my hope is that AP will start to drill some that stuff back into the players and they quickly pick up on this. Let's face it, it's stuff we all learn at junior freaking club level!!! You've hit on the real problem. Coaches not managers. Successful managers allow the players to use their abilities freely by having a simple framework. The players are put into their best positions, complement each other and the overall output is greater than the sum of the parts. On the other hand coaches deal in minutiae, detailed instructions and dossiers. The players are often played out of position to maintain a favoured system and have detailed roles that many are unable to fulfill. The team itself underachieves as the players are hamstrung by the system. That is why these teams are mostly unsuccessful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 And I presume Hockaday had no chance at all either????? How about Henderson back to the youth teams somewhere????? Hockaday had his contract paid up in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 So what is your point That most of them are not as good as we thought, or were led to think, they were. LOCAL rose coloured specs and i was as guilty as many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 That most of them are not as good as we thought, or were led to think, they were. LOCAL rose coloured specs and i was as guilty as many. I agree I would not expect all to have a career in the Premiership but I feel we have produced a number of good players and we should not be little our Academy. With the large influx of foreign players it is not surprising that there are not many British players around. We always seemed to have a couple of Scots in the team but not nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 And I presume Hockaday had no chance at all either????? How about Henderson back to the youth teams somewhere????? I was surprised to see Hockaday back if it was Hockaday, to be truthful I'd like to see a complete clearout and start again. I don't have any time for the sort of stupidity shown on Saturday and the comments in the Echo. I just don't understand how kids who spend many years in the academy, show a complete lack of awareness for general football positioning, tactics and their demands, together with not able to carry out simple tasks such as dead ball kicking and shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I agree - what game was henderson watching?:confused: Paterson to right midfield? He is a centre forward FFS as shown by his lack of awareness and defending and cover for James. Its not Patersons fault but a stupid decision by the coach. How the hell Wotton stayed on for 90 mins beats me. We should of gone 4-4-2 in the end just to try and give us an option to hold on the ball up front instead of them getting it and passing through our side who were chasing shadows. Ajax were a quality side but the 4th goal was abysmal defending and missed 3 tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I was surprised to see Hockaday back if it was Hockaday, to be truthful I'd like to see a complete clearout and start again. I don't have any time for the sort of stupidity shown on Saturday and the comments in the Echo. I just don't understand how kids who spend many years in the academy, show a complete lack of awareness for general football positioning, tactics and their demands, together with not able to carry out simple tasks such as dead ball kicking and shooting. what did Hockaday do stupid on Saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 what did Hockaday do stupid on Saturday? Went shopping with his Mrs?? On 19 June 2007, it was announced that he would be joining Southampton as youth team coach replacing Georges Prost, however he was put on Gardening Leave in January 2009 and was released from his contract in May of that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 what did Hockaday do stupid on Saturday? He was mentioned in the quoted post. The stupidity was all down to Henderson and I bet it hasn't gone unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Hockaday had his contract paid up in May. Thanks Ron. Must have missed that as the Club slid towards oblivion. Has anyone got any latest gossip on why he was put on gardening leave in the first instance?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Went shopping with his Mrs?? On 19 June 2007, it was announced that he would be joining Southampton as youth team coach replacing Georges Prost, however he was put on Gardening Leave in January 2009 and was released from his contract in May of that year. I don't know the fitness coach, but it looked like Hockaday doing the warm up and half time with the subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I don't know the fitness coach, but it looked like Hockaday doing the warm up and half time with the subs. Nick Harvey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Pilchards, this makes really interesting reading. Thanks very much for your hard work. I too am excited by what you say about Pardew's style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I think it's a bit rich having a pop at Stewart Henderson for Saturday's defeat to Ajax !!! He only managed the team for a week or so, had few quality players to choose from, has no experience in this position, knew he was only a stand-in anyway, etc, etc.... He strikes me as a solid club man (with good credentials at youth level) who helped us out when nobody else was available ! Please give the guy a break and let Pardew make a considered opinion on who should/should not be involved in his management setup !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 I think it's a bit rich having a pop at Stewart Henderson for Saturday's defeat to Ajax !!! He only managed the team for a week or so, had few quality players to choose from, has no experience in this position, knew he was only a stand-in anyway, etc, etc.... He strikes me as a solid club man (with good credentials at youth level) who helped us out when nobody else was available ! Please give the guy a break and let Pardew make a considered opinion on who should/should not be involved in his management setup !! His comments about Wotton beggered belief. His system was awful and negative. The result and I'm not talking about the score was predictable. The results of his years of work in the academy are McGoldrick and Lallana not able to kick the ball properly, Lallana couldn't even clear the first defender with his corners. Lancashire doesn't seem to know how to defend. Worse still there is no natural tactical awareness from the young players which I find appalling considering the time they have been coached at the club. They are now going to undergo an inquisition on both the playing and coaching side and by all accounts their technical education is being found to be sub standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Well done Pilchards. Great reports. Gives us supporters some hope after years of pure rubbish on match days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Paterson to right midfield? He is a centre forward FFS as shown by his lack of awareness and defending and cover for James. Its not Patersons fault but a stupid decision by the coach. How the hell Wotton stayed on for 90 mins beats me. We should of gone 4-4-2 in the end just to try and give us an option to hold on the ball up front instead of them getting it and passing through our side who were chasing shadows. Ajax were a quality side but the 4th goal was abysmal defending and missed 3 tackles. I'm not the greatest fan of either Patterson or Wotton but Henderson did them no favours. Why we stayed 4-5-1 isolating Saga and making life more difficult for Patterson while chasing the game, I will not know. For all the bodies we had in midfield, nobody (perhaps except Schneiderlin for a brief few mins) wanted to take a touch and bring the ball forward and look to move into space. Wotte basically made us bypass midfield with the long ball last season; midfield is crying out for an overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Well done Pilchards. Great reports. Gives us supporters some hope after years of pure rubbish on match days. Agree - it has been dire the last 3 or 4 years and the sooner someone starts kicking a few arses the better. Thanks Pilchards - will visit you in prison after you get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKA South Woodford Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 At last, what he is doing is great. Our players knowledge and positional play is abysmal, they have a complete lack of awareness. Exactly, one of the biggest problems with our team is that the players do not seem to either think about what they are going to do with the ball, or how they are going to get it, either from the opposition or from one of the other members of the team. The first few yards of play in football is in the mind, it appears ours don't have the speed of thought to cut it, in which case they should make up for it in endeavour, and as we know they are (Gillet apart) lacking in that dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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