Daren W Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Is your name Daren? He doesn't need the intelligensia to help debate the issue. Nope but then I'm not the mentalist here am I? Though to be truthful after reading your posts I do feel like one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scally Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Is your name Daren? He doesn't need the intelligensia to help debate the issue. You're barking mate, you don't debate you kill it. I'll be glad when we get another full moon and you do one and go support another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 How the blue blazes is sacking a good manager, bringing in TWO numpties and getting the club relegated AGAIN, making amends????????? He's maligned as the fall guy as he IS the fall guy. One relegation is unlucky, two is ****ing careless.... The point is Daren I seriously doubt if the second relegation would have occured if Crouch had not jumped into bed with Wilde and the sluice gates allegedly opened wide on our reserves. Lowe is the fall guy only because he came back and in many cases it's an easy and prejudiced target for some. Pearson or not the cash situation was so bad we were only heading one way and deep down I think you know that but refuse for whatever reason to accept that Lowe was not solely at fault. In fact any of the ex-directors could not have saved the club without crowds the size of which I doubt we will achieve this season. The damage at the start of last season was already done and Lowe tried to make a silk purse out of the sows ear delivered by two years of mismanagement and false promises. In the end the sows ear may have been marginally better minus the poor attempt at window dressing but regardless of Pearson the points deduction and relegation would have been the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 You're barking mate, you don't debate you kill it. I'll be glad when we get another full moon and you do one and go support another club. If sh1t was wit you would be constipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Post of the day, for me. Really well put. I don't understand how anyone can deny McMenemy's positive input to this club, and even if it was 35 years ago, it doesn't bother me. I am 18, born well after the success of the 80's, but I still recognise McMenemy as part of this club and I too feel he deserves the respect, i.e, a seat in the director's box, at least. To those who argue he doesn't deserve it, do you believe also that in 25 years time Matt Le Tissier should not be allowed a seat there because what he did was in the past? Then I hope our fans will accord the same respect to Rupert Lowe, who got us out of the millstone around our neck called the Dell, gave us our highest league finish for years, reached an FA Cup final and took us into Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 In fact any of the ex-directors could not have saved the club without crowds the size of which I doubt we will achieve this season. This will be the crux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 Nope but then I'm not the mentalist here am I? Though to be truthful after reading your posts I do feel like one... If you can't play nice Daren what's the point? Perhaps you would like to discuss the words prejudiced, racist or handicapped, amongst others or perhaps I am misunderstanding why you choose to stoop to terminology used by a bloke who chooses to holiday in Bangkok and still feels able to dish out the insults to me. Rise above it for all our differences I thought you were better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 The damage at the start of last season was already done and Lowe tried to make a silk purse out of the sows ear delivered by two years of mismanagement and false promises. In the end the sows ear may have been marginally better minus the poor attempt at window dressing but regardless of Pearson the points deduction and relegation would have been the same. This is pure and unadulterated conjecture. Instead of would, could or might are more appropriate. We might even have had a chance of avoiding relegation had Lowe had the balls to admit his mistake in hiring the hapless Poortvliet by Christmas. Luckily though, the football was so poor and home wins rarer than hens teeth, so the dwindling attendances drained the coffers and ultimately led to ridding ourselves of all the charlatans and our being taken over by Markus Leibherr. So ultimately I owe Rupert a big thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 20 July, 2009 Share Posted 20 July, 2009 So ultimately I owe Rupert a big thank you. I remember saying exactly the same thing to that nutjob Sundance who used to post on here. Onwards and upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 Then I hope our fans will accord the same respect to Rupert Lowe, who got us out of the millstone around our neck called the Dell, gave us our highest league finish for years, reached an FA Cup final and took us into Europe. I'll finish it off for you..........relegated us twice, took us from a much respected club to a laughing stock. Went through managers like they were going out of fashion, paying compensation along the way. Got rid of our best players by showing no ambition. Divided the fan base to an extent, that may never recover............lastly, almost cost the city the ignomy, of not having a profesional football team. Red and White Army.........you sound more like NC's sidekick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 (edited) If you can't play nice Daren what's the point? Perhaps you would like to discuss the words prejudiced, racist or handicapped, amongst others or perhaps I am misunderstanding why you choose to stoop to terminology used by a bloke who chooses to holiday in Bangkok and still feels able to dish out the insults to me. Rise above it for all our differences I thought you were better than that. Oh, so its ok to mock me for my charitable efforts, use and distort my personal circumstances, that's alright but get personal with you, find something that's personal to you and it's a different kettle of fish isn't it? It's ok to portray me as some mad, twisted weirdo, grief stricken and striking out against the club for no real reason but call you mental?? Totally out of order apparently. I had a very real and legitimate reason for not renewing my season ticket last year and for feeling let down by the club my mum had supported all her life but you chose to paint me as a unreasonable, twisted and slightly demented. You led the charge of several online weirdos on here who thought the club didn't have to do one small, nice thing for a terminally ill woman,... I disagreed and was made to look rather mad (thankfully it's not contagious) by you and your chorts and thatis something I will NOT forget... Do you seriously think that after your snide, unpleasant comments made about me on Essru's messageboard, that I'd just think "Oh well that was Sundance Beast, this a different personality altogether" then you're sorely mistaken. You crossed a line then, your card was marked and I will never be your friend or online chum. You're someone I despise and that won't change.... Live with it... Edited 21 July, 2009 by Daren W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 (edited) The point is Daren I seriously doubt if the second relegation would have occured if Crouch had not jumped into bed with Wilde and the sluice gates allegedly opened wide on our reserves. Lowe is the fall guy only because he came back and in many cases it's an easy and prejudiced target for some. Pearson or not the cash situation was so bad we were only heading one way and deep down I think you know that but refuse for whatever reason to accept that Lowe was not solely at fault. In fact any of the ex-directors could not have saved the club without crowds the size of which I doubt we will achieve this season. The damage at the start of last season was already done and Lowe tried to make a silk purse out of the sows ear delivered by two years of mismanagement and false promises. In the end the sows ear may have been marginally better minus the poor attempt at window dressing but regardless of Pearson the points deduction and relegation would have been the same. Oh you really are quite mad aren't you? Our second relegation was due to Wilde opening the purse strings? Not due to Lowe sacking what is now a title winning manager and replacing him with the Chuckle Brothers. Two years of mismanagement??? Try six. It's a football club, at some stage you have to try to win games and the only tilt we've had at trying to promotion was that season under Wilde's idiots. Under Lowe we have slowly sunk lower and lower. I think most people now admit that Lowe's meddling last year was the primary reason we got relegated. He took a good manager and replaced him with two idiots. He de-stabilised every thing and loaning out our best strikers was just the icing on cake. Would Saga, Rasiak and Stern John have kept us up? Who knows, it's conjecture. All I know is what Martin Samuel said about Portsmouth this season upon selling their best players wiith no infrastructure to replace them. "If anyone is compiling a handbook on how to be relegated then they can't look too much further than Portsmouth." Quite frankly how you can write off two relegations under Lowe as the blame of Wilde and Crouch is just... um... barking. Edited 21 July, 2009 by Daren W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 The point is Daren I seriously doubt if the second relegation would have occured if Crouch had not jumped into bed with Wilde and the sluice gates allegedly opened wide on our reserves. Lowe is the fall guy only because he came back and in many cases it's an easy and prejudiced target for some. Pearson or not the cash situation was so bad we were only heading one way and deep down I think you know that but refuse for whatever reason to accept that Lowe was not solely at fault. In fact any of the ex-directors could not have saved the club without crowds the size of which I doubt we will achieve this season. The damage at the start of last season was already done and Lowe tried to make a silk purse out of the sows ear delivered by two years of mismanagement and false promises. In the end the sows ear may have been marginally better minus the poor attempt at window dressing but regardless of Pearson the points deduction and relegation would have been the same. Lets be selective when it comes to the events of the last few years shall we if that`s how you work. The reason for the nightmare of the last 5 years is that we were relegated from the Prem. The relegation was as the result of gross mismanagement, a series of frequent and unsuitable managerial appointments and a serious lack of meaningful investment in the team, although Lowe did say at the beginning of the relegation season that "We have the strongest squad that we`ve ever had!!". Had the relegation not happened, the subsequent childish in-fighting in the boardroom would probably not have occured. As for Lowe "jumping in to bed" with Wilde - well that was hugely well thought out and successful wasn`t it? But never mind, it was all Crouch and McMenemys fault. Rupert truly is "a Saint" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 Oh you really are quite mad aren't you? Our second relegation was due to Wilde opening the purse strings? Not due to Lowe sacking what is now a title winning manager and replacing him with the Chuckle Brothers. Two years of mismanagement??? Try six. It's a football club, at some stage you have to try to win games and the only tilt we've had at trying to promotion was that season under Wilde's idiots. Under Lowe we have slowly sunk lower and lower. I think most people now admit that Lowe's meddling last year was the primary reason we got relegated. He took a good manager and replaced him with two idiots. He de-stabilised every thing and loaning out our best strikers was just the icing on cake. Would Saga, Rasiak and Stern John have kept us up? Who knows, it's conjecture. All I know is what Martin Samuel said about Portsmouth this season upon selling their best players wiith no infrastructure to replace them. "If anyone is compiling a handbook on how to be relegated then they can't look too much further than Portsmouth." Quite frankly how you can write off two relegations under Lowe as the blame of Wilde and Crouch is just... um... barking. For how many years is this pointless arguing going on We got relegated for a number of reasons and should just get on and see how we do in the future we have a wealthy and sensible backer which we never did in the past so hopefully things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 21 July, 2009 Share Posted 21 July, 2009 Oh you really are quite mad aren't you? Our second relegation was due to Wilde opening the purse strings? Not due to Lowe sacking what is now a title winning manager and replacing him with the Chuckle Brothers. Two years of mismanagement??? Try six. It's a football club, at some stage you have to try to win games and the only tilt we've had at trying to promotion was that season under Wilde's idiots. Under Lowe we have slowly sunk lower and lower. I think most people now admit that Lowe's meddling last year was the primary reason we got relegated. He took a good manager and replaced him with two idiots. He de-stabilised every thing and loaning out our best strikers was just the icing on cake. Would Saga, Rasiak and Stern John have kept us up? Who knows, it's conjecture. All I know is what Martin Samuel said about Portsmouth this season upon selling their best players wiith no infrastructure to replace them. "If anyone is compiling a handbook on how to be relegated then they can't look too much further than Portsmouth." Quite frankly how you can write off two relegations under Lowe as the blame of Wilde and Crouch is just... um... barking. You know Daren one of my favourite sayings is " you cannot reason with stupidity so don't even bother trying. " Do I need to say more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Oh you really are quite mad aren't you? Our second relegation was due to Wilde opening the purse strings? Not due to Lowe sacking what is now a title winning manager and replacing him with the Chuckle Brothers. Two years of mismanagement??? Try six. It's a football club, at some stage you have to try to win games and the only tilt we've had at trying to promotion was that season under Wilde's idiots. Under Lowe we have slowly sunk lower and lower. I think most people now admit that Lowe's meddling last year was the primary reason we got relegated. He took a good manager and replaced him with two idiots. He de-stabilised every thing and loaning out our best strikers was just the icing on cake. Would Saga, Rasiak and Stern John have kept us up? Who knows, it's conjecture. All I know is what Martin Samuel said about Portsmouth this season upon selling their best players wiith no infrastructure to replace them. "If anyone is compiling a handbook on how to be relegated then they can't look too much further than Portsmouth." Quite frankly how you can write off two relegations under Lowe as the blame of Wilde and Crouch is just... um... barking. Martin Samuel = Daily Mail. I think that is all we need to know about opinions Daren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 You know Daren one of my favourite sayings is " you cannot reason with stupidity so don't even bother trying. " Do I need to say more ? Yes. The ignorant dismissed the stupid for their suggestion the world was round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Yes. The ignorant dismissed the stupid for their suggestion the world was round. Were you still complaining way back in 1492 then !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Oh, so its ok to mock me for my charitable efforts, use and distort my personal circumstances, that's alright but get personal with you, find something that's personal to you and it's a different kettle of fish isn't it? It's ok to portray me as some mad, twisted weirdo, grief stricken and striking out against the club for no real reason but call you mental?? Totally out of order apparently. I had a very real and legitimate reason for not renewing my season ticket last year and for feeling let down by the club my mum had supported all her life but you chose to paint me as a unreasonable, twisted and slightly demented. You led the charge of several online weirdos on here who thought the club didn't have to do one small, nice thing for a terminally ill woman,... I disagreed and was made to look rather mad (thankfully it's not contagious) by you and your chorts and thatis something I will NOT forget... Do you seriously think that after your snide, unpleasant comments made about me on Essru's messageboard, that I'd just think "Oh well that was Sundance Beast, this a different personality altogether" then you're sorely mistaken. You crossed a line then, your card was marked and I will never be your friend or online chum. You're someone I despise and that won't change.... Live with it... Daren you love to make stuff up and if you think I tried to paint you as someone twisted and slightly demented you are wrong and that is your own twist on what was said at the time. I just supported the club in it's decision because if it did it for one it would set a precedent for all and be inundated with requests. Rightly or wrongly I thought you were abusing your position at the time and whilst understanding your anger didn't agree with your views. From posting my opinion you have kept upping the ante so to speak and that's up to you and its hard to depersonalise these things but clearly you will never appreciate my opinion but the club's stance was right and had it been different they would have been making an administrative and potentially PR rod for their own back. I'm sorry you despise me or that you think my illness is worthy of ridicule or in some way makes my views easier to ignore or rubbish. Trouble is you don't know my story and i don't really know yours but I have never used the emotional distress you must feel as a stick to beat you with and your emotive and insulting outbursts. If you depise me , put me on ignore or don't read me in the same way I don't choose to buy the Daily Mail or read the likes of the overly inflated Martin Samuels whatever paper he writes for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 For how many years is this pointless arguing going on We got relegated for a number of reasons and should just get on and see how we do in the future we have a wealthy and sensible backer which we never did in the past so hopefully things will get better. Good question John and it's a debate I am continually being sucked into. Perhaps for some they are unable to move on before they have been able to make sense of, or accept the past and I don't mind helping them to work through their issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Were you still complaining way back in 1492 then !! 1066 actually, it was Pevensey not Hastings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 1066 actually, it was Pevensey not Hastings. Not that it has any relevance at all but the timeline was: 20th September - The Battle of Fulford: King Harold II of England against his half brother Tostig and King Harald 25th September - The Battle of Stamford Bridge: King Harold II of England against his half brother Tostig and King Harald 14th October - The Battle of Hastings: King Harold II against Duke William the B@stard (later the Conqueror) The fighting was widespread and Harold deployed his force, astride the road from Hastings to London, on Senlac Hill some six miles inland from Hastings. To his back was the great forest of Anderida (the Weald) and in front the ground fell away in a long glacis-like slope, which at the bottom rose again as the opposing slope of Telham Hill. The later town called Battle in the modern county of East Sussex was named to commemorate this event. Here endeth today's history lesson though the main lesson I believe is that fighting is a bl**dy stupid way to settle an argument !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Not that it has any relevance at all but the timeline was: 20th September - The Battle of Fulford: King Harold II of England against his half brother Tostig and King Harald 25th September - The Battle of Stamford Bridge: King Harold II of England against his half brother Tostig and King Harald 14th October - The Battle of Hastings: King Harold II against Duke William the B@stard (later the Conqueror) The fighting was widespread and Harold deployed his force, astride the road from Hastings to London, on Senlac Hill some six miles inland from Hastings. To his back was the great forest of Anderida (the Weald) and in front the ground fell away in a long glacis-like slope, which at the bottom rose again as the opposing slope of Telham Hill. The later town called Battle in the modern county of East Sussex was named to commemorate this event. Here endeth today's history lesson though the main lesson I believe is that fighting is a bl**dy stupid way to settle an argument !! I've lost track now. Is Lowe King Harold or is that Wilde? Is Senlac Hill the site of SMS or have I got that completely wrong?? Is Tostig the new identity of 19?Sundance/Bear or whatever he is calling himself??? I think it was the Duke of Wellington who was saved at the Battle of Waterloo by the arrival of the Prussian general Blucher. Presumably that is Marcus Liebherr who came from those parts and saved the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Good question John and it's a debate I am continually being sucked into. Perhaps for some they are unable to move on before they have been able to make sense of, or accept the past and I don't mind helping them to work through their issues. The problem is that according to the majority Lowe is responsible for most of what went wrong even when he was plainly not just accept that and move on I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Good question John and it's a debate I am continually being sucked into. Perhaps for some they are unable to move on before they have been able to make sense of, or accept the past and I don't mind helping them to work through their issues. You want to stop pulling your plonker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 The problem is that according to the majority Lowe is responsible for most of what went wrong even when he was plainly not just accept that and move on I have Are you saying that the majority are wrong? Yes, you obviously are. It must make you feel all warm and righteous inside to believe that you part of an elite minority of super intelligent cognoscenti. Mind you, it is by looking at your compadres that doubt creeps in as to the probity of your position. After all, we are judged by the company we keep. (Or in Lowe's case the company that we allow to fall into administration ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I've lost track now. Is Lowe King Harold or is that Wilde? Is Senlac Hill the site of SMS or have I got that completely wrong?? Is Tostig the new identity of 19?Sundance/Bear or whatever he is calling himself??? I think it was the Duke of Wellington who was saved at the Battle of Waterloo by the arrival of the Prussian general Blucher. Presumably that is Marcus Liebherr who came from those parts and saved the Saints. Ok, I will try to explain all 1) Neither Lowe or Wilde are King Harold. Lowe is clearly King William the B@stard (later the Conkerer) Wilde aka King Ethelred the Unready had already departed to hell or Fratton Park as it is now known ! 2) No one has ever been sure what happened to the Sundance Beast, rumours that he teamed up with a cowboy were untrue, it was an urban legend. 3) The Duke of Wellington did indeed exchange much correspondence with General Blucher as Britain formed a coalition with Prussia though it was the arrival of General Bulow and his army that proved a major turning point though the much heralded British Bulldog spirit was much in evidence. It is not clear at what point Marcus Liebherr arrived on the scene but it is believed his forces arrived just in the nick of time after the mighty Pinnacle army decided to withdraw claiming, falsely it is believed, that they could not agree to fight as they felt the contract they needed to sign was illegal. Thus they rode away into the sunset and later were sent away as tax exiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Daren you love to make stuff up and if you think I tried to paint you as someone twisted and slightly demented you are wrong and that is your own twist on what was said at the time. I just supported the club in it's decision because if it did it for one it would set a precedent for all and be inundated with requests. Rightly or wrongly I thought you were abusing your position at the time and whilst understanding your anger didn't agree with your views. From posting my opinion you have kept upping the ante so to speak and that's up to you and its hard to depersonalise these things but clearly you will never appreciate my opinion but the club's stance was right and had it been different they would have been making an administrative and potentially PR rod for their own back. I'm sorry you despise me or that you think my illness is worthy of ridicule or in some way makes my views easier to ignore or rubbish. Trouble is you don't know my story and i don't really know yours but I have never used the emotional distress you must feel as a stick to beat you with and your emotive and insulting outbursts. If you depise me , put me on ignore or don't read me in the same way I don't choose to buy the Daily Mail or read the likes of the overly inflated Martin Samuels whatever paper he writes for. Once again a pack of lies from the "man" who only ever seems to post last thing at night. Again, not a thing about the insults you posted on Essrus' website (Does anyone have a link to Essruu's messageboard) have you forgotten that or post it not count as it was another "personality"? As for your re-writing of history.... Allow me to re-introduce you to one of your old quotes.... Daren Wheeler and excellent column isn't that an oxymoron whatever the connotation of column? Considering the bile the bloke has spat about this club especially with regard to his pious attempts to collect money for Cancer Research which I suspect he would not have bothered had his mother not contracted cancer herself. Believe me IMO Daren Wheeler is the last person we need to speak out on the club in an unbiased fashion. No doubt he will be hitting them with his 'charity stick' for a long time obviously so or otherwise. Just an opinion but appears the type to carry a grudge even in light of an explanation and one who strikes me as needing to be treated differently and above the normal fan to court a more favourable opinion. We need balanced assessment and IMO from what I have read from Wheeler on here that is unlikely to happen. Sadly your posts prior to Aug can't be located but I think the above makes you a liar as well as a piece of complete and utter scum... I'll say one this last time, and it's this that you constantly ignore and just drone on about the charity comments, if the club couldn't be botherd to give ten minutes to a terminally ill woman and get her shirt signed or photographed with a couple of players then what sort of club did we have?? Like I said, I never expected any money or any help from the club in regards to charity, but i expected a polite rebuffal. To just ignore two,very polite, requests for help is just arrogant and ignorant..(two words that spring to mind in regards to you.) To ignore anyone with a terminal illness in regards to such a simple request just shows how out of touch the club was. Ten minutes, no cost to the club at all and they couldn't even be bothered to say no let alone do something. I simply highlighted that in my Echo Column. No bile, no ranting, just a very simple statement that any pr office with half a brain would have acted on the very first time. No bile, no frothing at the mouth, just a few lines mentioning that the club hadn't bothered to even reply. When I first mentioned it, all they had to do was phone me/email me, and say "Sorry Mr Wheeler,we never got that letter/call/email, unfortunately we can't can't help individual charity cases but if you'd like to take you mother to Staplewood one day we'd be happy to get your mother's shirt signed." Simple, but they never bothered. But at no stage did I "rant" or "rave" that's just in your, obviously rather muddled, pill ridden brain... Got that? you go on and on about me ranting, spitting bile, but that will never make it true. Those that know me personally will tell you that I may be many things but obsessed and ranting is not one of them. A dedicated son, a proud son and a man dedicated to raising money for charity yes, someone whose life has been transformed in a positive, life changing way, yes.... but ranting and delusional? No Don't judge everyone by your own sick standards... Pop a pill and **** off... Oh, by the way, a good writer is a good writer no matter what paper they write for. Martin Samuels for the Mail and Oliver Holt for the Mirror spring to mind, but then again I don't chose newpapers to impress other people, I buy them for the writers. No doubt you're one of the many who buy the Guardian and read it on the train with the Sun snuck inside. A newspaper snob.... how very sad.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 I've lost track now. Is Lowe King Harold or is that Wilde? Is Senlac Hill the site of SMS or have I got that completely wrong?? Is Tostig the new identity of 19?Sundance/Bear or whatever he is calling himself??? I think it was the Duke of Wellington who was saved at the Battle of Waterloo by the arrival of the Prussian general Blucher. Presumably that is Marcus Liebherr who came from those parts and saved the Saints. Indeed. A damned close-run thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Uhm... the old chestnut...dangerous teritory really ;-) IMHO, we do tend to see it maybe all as too black and white. No doubt, Lowe, even if unintentionally, was a key factor in the first relegation, but maybe not for the reasons many see as obvious...The manager instabilty was always going to have a huge impact, and mistakes made here by Lowe cant be argued against... 'players leaving because of no ambition' - pure bull sheidt... players left for more money, and we did not have it whatever rubbish some ex players spout in the media about where did all the cash go... SMS and the academy and improvements to the training ground ARE gtood things to happen to Saints, where the argument starts is that some believe this cash should have been focussed on the first team... but the reality it was less than a Rory Delap per year - and provided the infrastructure that we needed. These things DO NOT excuse the mistakes made, but they should be accepted as positives because they WERE. But yes Lowe need sto accept responsibilty for that relegation, but the players also need to accept they did not perform. Wilde and Crouch talked a good game, but ultimately did not really have teh funds to match their promises... I think they found out teh hard way that maybe it was not that simple afterall balancing appropriate spending to meet the ambitions of both fans and the club with the reality of football finance outside the Premiership. Well intentioned investment made and already deep hole that much deeper and left the door open for Lowe to return... albeit IMHO too late from a financial perspective, it has to be acknowledged that whilst I like the idea of challenging preconceptions and trying new things, the Dutch experiment was a bad error - the results prove this so it cant be argued against. Had we kept Pearson, what the results would have been is another argument - I still believe we would have struggled but who knows, and what impact it would ahve had on the gate and thus revenues would only be guesswork, but many believe we would have possible just about survived... My guess is we would have survived, but then been relegated when we went into admin - so would have started this division but without the -10... Ultimately how you feel about Lowe tends to be based on a combination of things, whether you accept any positives, whether you accept that there were other factors which influenced relegation, whether you see football as so important that it illicits strong or even aggressive emotions, whether you believe alot of the urban myths that have sprung up about him and his time here, whether you think ambition should be realised through spending (what we did not have) to live the dream, but ultimately whether you believe we could have achieved more in the prem, without additional revenues. An interesting question might be... had we made (through some miracle) a 25 million profit one season in the prem, I think we woudl ahve seen Lowe divide this as follows: 6 mill - shareholder dividends 5 mil - expansion of the academy and training ground 10 mil new players 4 mil share buy back Whereas I would guess most fans would have wanted at least 20 mil on new players, accepted a 1mill or so dividend and 4 mil investment in academy etc... I can understand that, but it probably simply illustrates why many fans disliked him so... personally, I would have been happy with a compromise of 17 mil on players, 5 on infrastructure and 3 on dividends and nothing on share buybacks which do nothing but use the clubs money to increase the value of individuals holdings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Are you saying that the majority are wrong? Yes, you obviously are. It must make you feel all warm and righteous inside to believe that you part of an elite minority of super intelligent cognoscenti. Mind you, it is by looking at your compadres that doubt creeps in as to the probity of your position. After all, we are judged by the company we keep. (Or in Lowe's case the company that we allow to fall into administration ) Lets just forget the past shall we and look to the future hopefully things will get better because they can hardly get worse You have a point of view I have another thats all it is no good arguing because we are not going to change one anothers view. Let us talk about now and the season ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Lets just forget the past shall we and look to the future hopefully things will get better because they can hardly get worse You have a point of view I have another thats all it is no good arguing because we are not going to change one anothers view. Let us talk about now and the season ahead. Good advice John B.....I doubt you will take it yourself though!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Once again a pack of lies from the "man" who only ever seems to post last thing at night. Again, not a thing about the insults you posted on Essrus' website (Does anyone have a link to Essruu's messageboard) have you forgotten that or post it not count as it was another "personality"? As for your re-writing of history.... Allow me to re-introduce you to one of your old quotes.... Sadly your posts prior to Aug can't be located but I think the above makes you a liar as well as a piece of complete and utter scum... I'll say one this last time, and it's this that you constantly ignore and just drone on about the charity comments, if the club couldn't be botherd to give ten minutes to a terminally ill woman and get her shirt signed or photographed with a couple of players then what sort of club did we have?? Like I said, I never expected any money or any help from the club in regards to charity, but i expected a polite rebuffal. To just ignore two,very polite, requests for help is just arrogant and ignorant..(two words that spring to mind in regards to you.) To ignore anyone with a terminal illness in regards to such a simple request just shows how out of touch the club was. Ten minutes, no cost to the club at all and they couldn't even be bothered to say no let alone do something. I simply highlighted that in my Echo Column. No bile, no ranting, just a very simple statement that any pr office with half a brain would have acted on the very first time. No bile, no frothing at the mouth, just a few lines mentioning that the club hadn't bothered to even reply. When I first mentioned it, all they had to do was phone me/email me, and say "Sorry Mr Wheeler,we never got that letter/call/email, unfortunately we can't can't help individual charity cases but if you'd like to take you mother to Staplewood one day we'd be happy to get your mother's shirt signed." Simple, but they never bothered. But at no stage did I "rant" or "rave" that's just in your, obviously rather muddled, pill ridden brain... Got that? you go on and on about me ranting, spitting bile, but that will never make it true. Those that know me personally will tell you that I may be many things but obsessed and ranting is not one of them. A dedicated son, a proud son and a man dedicated to raising money for charity yes, someone whose life has been transformed in a positive, life changing way, yes.... but ranting and delusional? No Don't judge everyone by your own sick standards... Pop a pill and **** off... Oh, by the way, a good writer is a good writer no matter what paper they write for. Martin Samuels for the Mail and Oliver Holt for the Mirror spring to mind, but then again I don't chose newpapers to impress other people, I buy them for the writers. No doubt you're one of the many who buy the Guardian and read it on the train with the Sun snuck inside. A newspaper snob.... how very sad.... lol Sick standards, scum, pop a pill, very sad, pill ridden brain, your adjectives are as stuck as your opinion Daren. Sundance Beast seems to have had a valid point if strongly put across but I suspect you have been selective as usual in your quotes. No club can ever put themselves in a position to attend to every tragic wish. 1 in 3 people in this country will suffer from cancer and many of those will pass away. I don't know how big our fanbase is but that could be alot of shirt signings and that has always been my point and the point of others. Saints have a fantastic charitable setup with Saints in the community and for you to suggest otherwise because of your personal experience is wrong in my humble opinion. If they had contacted you and said no, they couldn't win, because they would have ended up in endless debate like I have with you because it would have been Staplewood or whatever. Why didn't you just stand in the car park on match days like the kids do with their magic markers? Like I say Daren and understandably you were unable to divorce yourself from the club's stance because of your personal circumstances but unfortunately tragic as though it is, it doesn't make you right IMO and never will. After my wife had breast cancer and masectomy 3 years ago and continues her drug therapy we became all of a sudden big campaigners for Cancer Research and doing various runs and helping at charitable events. I do it but deep down I can't get over my hypocrisy because it took that life changing event for me to wise up and think that I could lose her. Why does it take such damaging events to make us do something worthwhile? My father also passed away not along ago and I also spend a lot of time collecting for the charity of the illness that killed him. Again isn't it all a bit cynical and should we all not follow how Saints choose to work for charity? Choose one or more worthy causes and do your bit without reward or fanfare, before like us we feel the need to do so because of our own life experiences? Yes I am a newspaper snob and the only time I would get near the Daily Mail or the writings of Martin Samuels would be if the Andrex factory went on strike. (Funny you think I read the Guardian) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 how very sad....That sums up my feelings reading the 2 very strong and good personalities fighting on here.Both of you have had your 'real fights' off this board and at certain times the pressure has made you act in totally irrational ways. Daren was always right mentioning his plight and the terrible treatment of him by the club,he rightly was sore about it. For the person who let it out on here NC's personal problems, SHAME ON YOU. A terrible misjudgement and I hope you may not have a family member befall an illness that is not understood (and even then the logic is beyond understanding)until you face up to it in your own family. I say leave the cheap jibes at NC's illness aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 (edited) That sums up my feelings reading the 2 very strong and good personalities fighting on here.Both of you have had your 'real fights' off this board and at certain times the pressure has made you act in totally irrational ways. Daren was always right mentioning his plight and the terrible treatment of him by the club,he rightly was sore about it. For the person who let it out on here NC's personal problems, SHAME ON YOU. A terrible misjudgement and I hope you may not have a family member befall an illness that is not understood (and even then the logic is beyond understanding)until you face up to it in your own family. I say leave the cheap jibes at NC's illness aside. Nick all I will say is you should have seen the look on my mother's face when she saw 19c/Sundance's comments. Trust me my friend, words cannot describe it... Shock, horror, sadness, disgust, all rolled into one. The man is scum, pure and simple... Edited 22 July, 2009 by Daren W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Oh you really are quite mad aren't you? Our second relegation was due to Wilde opening the purse strings? Not due to Lowe sacking what is now a title winning manager and replacing him with the Chuckle Brothers. Two years of mismanagement??? Try six. It's a football club, at some stage you have to try to win games and the only tilt we've had at trying to promotion was that season under Wilde's idiots. Under Lowe we have slowly sunk lower and lower. I think most people now admit that Lowe's meddling last year was the primary reason we got relegated. He took a good manager and replaced him with two idiots. He de-stabilised every thing and loaning out our best strikers was just the icing on cake. Would Saga, Rasiak and Stern John have kept us up? Who knows, it's conjecture. All I know is what Martin Samuel said about Portsmouth this season upon selling their best players wiith no infrastructure to replace them. "If anyone is compiling a handbook on how to be relegated then they can't look too much further than Portsmouth." Quite frankly how you can write off two relegations under Lowe as the blame of Wilde and Crouch is just... um... barking. You are wrong about Saga/Rasiak/John by the way. For a start none of them set the world alight while they were on loan at other clubs did they? I also think you under estimate how deep in the **** we were financially when Lowe came back. He made numerous cut costing decisions including the stadium/park and ride etc, but when it came to it the quickest and easiest way of getting some much needed cash into the club was getting 3 highly paid players off the wage bill and get paid cash for the pleasure. The 3 clubs that took these players paid CASH sums aswell as Swansea for Dyer to have them on loan of the season. Hence the reason we couldn't call any of them back early. Euell, Davis and Skacel were also all offered around but nobody wanted them. It was a gamble. But a gamble that needed to be taken because we would have been in administration alot earlier. The whole Pearson/JP thing is up for debate. Clearly a mistake but you can't blame a new owner so to speak for wanting to bring his own man in. The whole Lowe bashing is clearly because its the easy option. Yes he's partially to blame, but not wholey. Michael Wilde has much more to answer for IMO. Our relegation from the Prem could be Lowe's fault yes, but not the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Where are the mods? Surely this can't turn into any more of a PERSONAL argument? It's absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Sick standards, scum, pop a pill, very sad, pill ridden brain, your adjectives are as stuck as your opinion Daren. Sundance Beast seems to have had a valid point if strongly put across but I suspect you have been selective as usual in your quotes. No club can ever put themselves in a position to attend to every tragic wish. 1 in 3 people in this country will suffer from cancer and many of those will pass away. I don't know how big our fanbase is but that could be alot of shirt signings and that has always been my point and the point of others. Saints have a fantastic charitable setup with Saints in the community and for you to suggest otherwise because of your personal experience is wrong in my humble opinion. If they had contacted you and said no, they couldn't win, because they would have ended up in endless debate like I have with you because it would have been Staplewood or whatever. Why didn't you just stand in the car park on match days like the kids do with their magic markers? Like I say Daren and understandably you were unable to divorce yourself from the club's stance because of your personal circumstances but unfortunately tragic as though it is, it doesn't make you right IMO and never will. After my wife had breast cancer and masectomy 3 years ago and continues her drug therapy we became all of a sudden big campaigners for Cancer Research and doing various runs and helping at charitable events. I do it but deep down I can't get over my hypocrisy because it took that life changing event for me to wise up and think that I could lose her. Why does it take such damaging events to make us do something worthwhile? My father also passed away not along ago and I also spend a lot of time collecting for the charity of the illness that killed him. Again isn't it all a bit cynical and should we all not follow how Saints choose to work for charity? Choose one or more worthy causes and do your bit without reward or fanfare, before like us we feel the need to do so because of our own life experiences? Yes I am a newspaper snob and the only time I would get near the Daily Mail or the writings of Martin Samuels would be if the Andrex factory went on strike. (Funny you think I read the Guardian) Again, lies, lies, lies.... You are Sundance Beast, Flashman and numerous other ridiculous posters. It has been proved... Your inability to tell the truth just shows you up as what you are... a rather sick individual who is now reaping the rewards of his previously shockingly bad behaviour... As for cherry picking quotes, I think that one quote is bad enough.... A liar, a fantasist and a scumbag... Congratulations... A full house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carljack Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Think you need to take a step back/holiday from this board and focus on the positives in your life moosh! SAINT TILL I DIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Nick all will say is you should have seen the look on my mother's face when she saw 19c/Sundance's comments. Trust me my friend, words cannot describe it... The man is scum, pure and simple... I understand and will not support him in his snipes at you and your mothers fight.You are a proper respected person and like myself and Um have suffered some attacks by him.In time you may come round and understand my viewpoint (not through experiencing the horror of facing up to his illness) and see he really is trying to control something that is uncontrollable.I have noticed it myself, recently he has only attacked when under tremendous provocation and even then it is mild compared to the past. I am not taking sides as i think you are a top man, and i enjoyed reading your stuff (although i dont always agree) and hope to meet your mother when you return regularily to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 You are wrong about Saga/Rasiak/John by the way. For a start none of them set the world alight while they were on loan at other clubs did they? I also think you under estimate how deep in the **** we were financially when Lowe came back. He made numerous cut costing decisions including the stadium/park and ride etc, but when it came to it the quickest and easiest way of getting some much needed cash into the club was getting 3 highly paid players off the wage bill and get paid cash for the pleasure. The 3 clubs that took these players paid CASH sums aswell as Swansea for Dyer to have them on loan of the season. Hence the reason we couldn't call any of them back early. Euell, Davis and Skacel were also all offered around but nobody wanted them. It was a gamble. But a gamble that needed to be taken because we would have been in administration alot earlier. The whole Pearson/JP thing is up for debate. Clearly a mistake but you can't blame a new owner so to speak for wanting to bring his own man in. The whole Lowe bashing is clearly because its the easy option. Yes he's partially to blame, but not wholey. Michael Wilde has much more to answer for IMO. Our relegation from the Prem could be Lowe's fault yes, but not the Championship. Excellent post and for me backs up with some facts that which I have felt all along. Wilde supported by Crouch was the start of the club's downfall. Relegation from the Premiership remains an increasingly occupational hazard for club's of our size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 (edited) I understand and will not support him in his snipes at you and your mothers fight.You are a proper respected person and like myself and Um have suffered some attacks by him.In time you may come round and understand my viewpoint (not through experiencing the horror of facing up to his illness) and see he really is trying to control something that is uncontrollable.I have noticed it myself, recently he has only attacked when under tremendous provocation and even then it is mild compared to the past. I am not taking sides as i think you are a top man, and i enjoyed reading your stuff (although i dont always agree) and hope to meet your mother when you return regularily to games. you say you get attacks off f him...im sure you do but i do not THINK i have ever seen another posters misfortune (19C) be talked about so many times by so many different people....there is simply no need for so many to do so pot.kettle springs to mind SOMETIMES Edited 22 July, 2009 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 How strange, I thought I had logged onto the Saints Forum, seems I was wrong. Mods - please - we get the point, some posters don't like each other and manage to take their opinions into a surreal world of the Muppet Show, except the rest of us have paid a fiver for this drivel. guys, get a room or get Ally McCoist in for some Blue Collar (or whatever) Boxing sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Again, lies, lies, lies.... You are Sundance Beast, Flashman and numerous other ridiculous posters. It has been proved... Your inability to tell the truth just shows you up as what you are... a rather sick individual who is now reaping the rewards of his previously shockingly bad behaviour... As for cherry picking quotes, I think that one quote is bad enough.... A liar, a fantasist and a scumbag... Congratulations... A full house... Daren time to stop the self-centred approach and read what is being written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 How strange, I thought I had logged onto the Saints Forum, seems I was wrong. Mods - please - we get the point, some posters don't like each other and manage to take their opinions into a surreal world of the Muppet Show, except the rest of us have paid a fiver for this drivel. guys, get a room or get Ally McCoist in for some Blue Collar (or whatever) Boxing sessions. indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 you say you get attacks off f him...im sure you do but i do not THINK i have ever seen another posters misfortune (19C) be talked about so many times by so many different people....these is simply no need for so many to do so pot.kettle springs to mind SOMETIMESIt was a long time ago when Gb was manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 How strange, I thought I had logged onto the Saints Forum, seems I was wrong. Mods - please - we get the point, some posters don't like each other and manage to take their opinions into a surreal world of the Muppet Show, except the rest of us have paid a fiver for this drivel. guys, get a room or get Ally McCoist in for some Blue Collar (or whatever) Boxing sessions. I would DP but closed down my pms for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 It was a long time ago when Gb was manager. yes..and i got banned for the sheer baiting many of you (you were quite bad yourself) dished out to those few of us who did not rate him one thing this board does well..is alienate those with a differing opinion.. the latest example was I was called skate **** (by PM) and many called me, and I quote.. "An utter disgrace" for daring to question the pinnacle bid....you get my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 You are wrong about Saga/Rasiak/John by the way. For a start none of them set the world alight while they were on loan at other clubs did they? I also think you under estimate how deep in the **** we were financially when Lowe came back. He made numerous cut costing decisions including the stadium/park and ride etc, but when it came to it the quickest and easiest way of getting some much needed cash into the club was getting 3 highly paid players off the wage bill and get paid cash for the pleasure. The 3 clubs that took these players paid CASH sums aswell as Swansea for Dyer to have them on loan of the season. Hence the reason we couldn't call any of them back early. Euell, Davis and Skacel were also all offered around but nobody wanted them. It was a gamble. But a gamble that needed to be taken because we would have been in administration alot earlier. The whole Pearson/JP thing is up for debate. Clearly a mistake but you can't blame a new owner so to speak for wanting to bring his own man in. The whole Lowe bashing is clearly because its the easy option. Yes he's partially to blame, but not wholey. Michael Wilde has much more to answer for IMO. Our relegation from the Prem could be Lowe's fault yes, but not the Championship. A quite reasoned and sensible post, but where I think that it falls down a bit is with regard to RL/MW bringing their own men in. Did ANYBODY have any confidence in JP/MW when they were announced?? I would have thought that even a journeyman but experienced manager would have been a better gamble than the one that RL took. The promised world of "Total Football" (and JP DID use that phrase in his first interiew) was the empty one that we all thought (although we did hope) that it would turn out to be. So whilst I wouldn`t totally lay the blame for the second relegation (although I would the first) at RL/MW`s door, the Dutch appointments were a big contributory factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 22 July, 2009 Share Posted 22 July, 2009 Mods - please - we get the point, some posters don't like each other and manage to take their opinions into a surreal world of the Muppet Show, except the rest of us have paid a fiver for this drivel. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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