What do you want?

[alpine_saint]

LOL

 

 

which these days....seems to be pretty tame..

 

How "significant doubts that he has the long-term survival and success at heart" ?

 

I couldn't give a shiny one if he's the bastard son of Little Lord Fauntleroy.

[Rebel]

as its our national game isn't is about time the government stepped in and saved it from itself - or in reality the SKY TV money

 

- clubs owned by the supporters as industrial friendly provident societies

 

- or by British Citizens only

 

- ban on clubs running on debt

 

- no foreign owners

 

- a fairer sharing of the TV money throughout the premier and football leagues

 

- a wage cap on player salaries by % of clubs turnover

 

- a player wage cap of £50,000 a week or less

 

- qoutas for homegrown players - and limits on foreign players - EU or otherwise

 

- a British & Irish League Cup

 

- return of the home internationals (perhaps as U23s)

 

fat chance that will ever happen (just like our national infrastructure the UK government will sit their and repeat the mantra of the free market as the bills get ever higher for us)

 

football is truly the game that is eating itself - I've already lost all affinity for the England team with its overpaid out of touch premiership stars and their hollywood lifestyle and attitude

 

who'd have thought that at Italia 90, Euro 96 or France 98????

 

how long is it before that is true of most people outside of the top tier clubs? - and then peoples feelings to the premier league or English football as an entity in itself

[aintforever]

Lets face facts, if we had a mega rich owner we wouldn't give a toss about where he got the money from. And whilst it's always nice to see home-grown players we would be too concerned with actually tryng to win something or qulify for Europe to really give a monkeys.

[alpine_saint]

Lets face facts, if we had a mega rich owner we wouldn't give a toss about where he got the money from. And whilst it's always nice to see home-grown players we would be too concerned with actually tryng to win something or qulify for Europe to really give a monkeys.

 

Yep. There is something inherently child-like about some claiming they wouldnt want it any other way than it is now. Like a kid being told to give a toy back to another kid who he snatched it from - "didnt want it anyway"...

[dubai_phil]

OK so we are getting to grips with the wrongs of the world. So we are in this mess of no money but suddenly may have found "a new direction" that inadvertently gives the club back to us.

 

So what should our PLAN be?

 

It is obvious that we need to stabilise the team and our league status. HOPEFULLY that will happen this year (I still won't make any judgement until the end of September BTW)

 

So we know that the BIG POISONOUS NASTY money in soccer is not going to run out this year (except maybe for us) and it is obvious that our better youngsters WILL be picked off, either in January or in the summer. Hopefully for Walcottesque sums but...

 

So what I would like to se happening NOW and in January (IF we are stable) is that we start recruiting the NEXT level of youngsters, the 18-19 year olds who with a season in the reserves would strengthen the NEXT generation of replacements.

 

IF we understand that we need to produce a conveyor belt of talent, then the loss of our "new local stars" will be tempered by the INVESTMENT back into the machine to produce more and better ones READY to come into the first team.

 

Each year with more experience we could sign better kids, more mature Spidermen, faster Lallana's. THEN we really start to build something. (oh and maybe even full backs)

 

This year's kids MAY keep us in the CCC, but they WILL get poached, but the next ones who can be blooded this season and the replacements COULD take us closer to that top table.

 

IF we ever get back up there, then keeping the kids conveyor running MAY with the right investment in experience keep us up there. Bunch of has beens or cheap imports we never heard of won't.

 

(sh*t kids conveyor sounds like something GG put his Duty Free bag onto in that web photo doing the rounds)

 

But this "attitude change" needs to go really deep and not just be a one off short term solution to grease the wallets of the shareholders. It is a long term investment by all of us.

 

Gonna be interesting if Platini gets his way with the number of players in a squad that have been through the academy. Hurry up and pass that rule QUICK that'll screw Man C & Chelski

[Thedelldays]

as its our national game isn't is about time the government stepped in and saved it from itself - or in reality the SKY TV money..

save the game from what?

 

the top clubs are very strong in the champions league which makes the english FA/Prem very strong...which im sure UEFA dont like..

 

the money generated in TAX from the game is incredible no doubt.....

 

 

we have english players winning the very top honours in the donestic game...and as soon as a manager figures out how to translate that into international performances, we will be on a winner...

 

- clubs owned by the supporters as industrial friendly provident societies

why? football is a business and is about time FANS (well some) woke up to this...

 

- or by British Citizens only

again, lowe is a british citizen, so is risdale..

 

- ban on clubs running on debt

again, why? do we ban homeowener from running their lives on debt?

 

- no foreign owners

already answered

 

- a fairer sharing of the TV money throughout the premier and football leagues

to be fair (and be honest) the standard of football in the football league is crap....apart from the od team and the odd good game, the standard is crap, so why would telly companies want to plough silly money in football that is dull in most parts..

 

- a wage cap on player salaries by % of clubs turnover

maybe a good idea

 

- a player wage cap of £50,000 a week or less

why? surely if they club has the restriction above they can pay who ever they like what they like

 

- qoutas for homegrown players - and limits on foreign players - EU or otherwise

agree

 

- a British & Irish League Cup

err...no thanks

 

- return of the home internationals (perhaps as U23s)

agree..

 

fat chance that will ever happen (just like our national infrastructure the UK government will sit their and repeat the mantra of the free market as the bills get ever higher for us)

 

football is truly the game that is eating itself - I've already lost all affinity for the England team with its overpaid out of touch premiership stars and their hollywood lifestyle and attitude

I cant see how football is eating itself....really, just as we are not in the prem anymore? no one had an issue with morals then when we were poaching young talented players from all over the country...the english clubs are becoming very powerful in europe and the standard of football in the top flight is a million miles better than it was 10 years ago..

 

who'd have thought that at Italia 90, Euro 96 or France 98????

the only difference back then was that Italian club then SPanish club were doing wha the prem is doing now...no different, no less...part of the football cycle that so many go on about..

 

how long is it before that is true of most people outside of the top tier clubs? - and then peoples feelings to the premier league or English football as an entity in itself

 

just my views..

[Legod Second Coming]

Yep. There is something inherently child-like about some claiming they wouldnt want it any other way than it is now. Like a kid being told to give a toy back to another kid who he snatched it from - "didnt want it anyway"...

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I might have enjoyed a tour around Barcelona or Madrid.

 

But the net result of everything is that I have more connection with my team now than since I used to be able to talk to Holmes and Channon before the games because they were stood next to us.

 

Give it five years, ten at a push and this is the only model you will have of football for the masses. The Premership will be gone, abroad. And either you'll pay £100 a ticket to watch a game a quarter while it travels the globe.

 

Or you'll be sat watching a provincial club like ours.

 

So, either you run down the platform and try to catch the gravy train.

 

Or you accept that this is how it is and has been for countless teams exactly like ours for a generation.

 

There is a dignity in poverty that isn't always obvious.

[Legod Second Coming]

OK so we are getting to grips with the wrongs of the world. So we are in this mess of no money but suddenly may have found "a new direction" that inadvertently gives the club back to us.

 

So what should our PLAN be?

 

It is obvious that we need to stabilise the team and our league status. HOPEFULLY that will happen this year (I still won't make any judgement until the end of September BTW)

 

So we know that the BIG POISONOUS NASTY money in soccer is not going to run out this year (except maybe for us) and it is obvious that our better youngsters WILL be picked off, either in January or in the summer. Hopefully for Walcottesque sums but...

 

So what I would like to se happening NOW and in January (IF we are stable) is that we start recruiting the NEXT level of youngsters, the 18-19 year olds who with a season in the reserves would strengthen the NEXT generation of replacements.

 

IF we understand that we need to produce a conveyor belt of talent, then the loss of our "new local stars" will be tempered by the INVESTMENT back into the machine to produce more and better ones READY to come into the first team.

 

Each year with more experience we could sign better kids, more mature Spidermen, faster Lallana's. THEN we really start to build something. (oh and maybe even full backs)

 

This year's kids MAY keep us in the CCC, but they WILL get poached, but the next ones who can be blooded this season and the replacements COULD take us closer to that top table.

 

IF we ever get back up there, then keeping the kids conveyor running MAY with the right investment in experience keep us up there. Bunch of has beens or cheap imports we never heard of won't.

 

(sh*t kids conveyor sounds like something GG put his Duty Free bag onto in that web photo doing the rounds)

 

But this "attitude change" needs to go really deep and not just be a one off short term solution to grease the wallets of the shareholders. It is a long term investment by all of us.

 

Gonna be interesting if Platini gets his way with the number of players in a squad that have been through the academy. Hurry up and pass that rule QUICK that'll screw Man C & Chelski

 

Hear, hear. That's exactly what we should be doing. And proudly. And understanding that our talent will want to flourish and rightly so. I'd love them to stay but while I'm a romantic, I'm not a total fecking eejit!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Years ago, I would have said that this club needed to invest in playing talent. I cried out for a Keeganesque signing. A whopping name - massive.

 

Bring me a Beckham I cried. Over and over.

 

Spunk money away on the best names on the highest salaries.

 

What a fecking idiot I was (still am, sure, mock me).

 

What the feck would I want to support propping up the ludicrous modern footballer's wages for? Perpetuating the myth of SKY's glamarous Premiership - with all its drama and excitement. Drama and excitement?? My ass. What a mug. I'm cancelling my subscription as soon as the cricket is over.

 

Because finally, finally, finally. King Kev has proved it.

 

Money doesn't buy you the one thing that I really want to see in my team.

 

A little bit of 'class'.

 

Ahsley with all his cash is like the rest of the Premiership and the new owners. Easy come, easy go money without any roots in what local football clubs are about.

 

They're about local people, supporting local teams, ideally filled with local players.

 

Feck the Chairman. I give not one hoot who he is nor where he came from.

 

At last, I can look out on the pitch and see players playing for their shirts, their club - my club. And players like Gillet, Surman, White, James, McGoldrick - my players. Giving 100% for my team. Well, thank the Lord for that - at last.

 

Bring it on I say. And if we lose doing it, so be it. At least I feel some pride again.

 

Fantastic post!!

[um pahars]

OK so we are getting to grips with the wrongs of the world. So we are in this mess of no money but suddenly may have found "a new direction" that inadvertently gives the club back to us.

 

So what should our PLAN be?

 

It is obvious that we need to stabilise the team and our league status. HOPEFULLY that will happen this year (I still won't make any judgement until the end of September BTW)

 

So we know that the BIG POISONOUS NASTY money in soccer is not going to run out this year (except maybe for us) and it is obvious that our better youngsters WILL be picked off, either in January or in the summer. Hopefully for Walcottesque sums but...

 

So what I would like to se happening NOW and in January (IF we are stable) is that we start recruiting the NEXT level of youngsters, the 18-19 year olds who with a season in the reserves would strengthen the NEXT generation of replacements.

 

IF we understand that we need to produce a conveyor belt of talent, then the loss of our "new local stars" will be tempered by the INVESTMENT back into the machine to produce more and better ones READY to come into the first team.

 

Each year with more experience we could sign better kids, more mature Spidermen, faster Lallana's. THEN we really start to build something. (oh and maybe even full backs)

 

This year's kids MAY keep us in the CCC, but they WILL get poached, but the next ones who can be blooded this season and the replacements COULD take us closer to that top table.

 

IF we ever get back up there, then keeping the kids conveyor running MAY with the right investment in experience keep us up there. Bunch of has beens or cheap imports we never heard of won't.

 

(sh*t kids conveyor sounds like something GG put his Duty Free bag onto in that web photo doing the rounds)

 

But this "attitude change" needs to go really deep and not just be a one off short term solution to grease the wallets of the shareholders. It is a long term investment by all of us.

 

Gonna be interesting if Platini gets his way with the number of players in a squad that have been through the academy. Hurry up and pass that rule QUICK that'll screw Man C & Chelski

 

But any good ones from the next lot will just get poached as well! We are now well and truly in the lower pecking order and at the mercy of those Clubs that have the wonga.

 

Additionally, it is a big ask to keep producing youngsters in such a quantity each and every season. I'm not sure any Club has prodcued such a vast number each year.

 

Many clubs are aware of the benefits of producing youth (for your own team and also as a revenue generator), and sadly we are just one of a number of middle CCC clubs looking for that odd promotion place.

[revolution saint]

as its our national game isn't is about time the government stepped in and saved it from itself - or in reality the SKY TV money

 

- clubs owned by the supporters as industrial friendly provident societies

 

- or by British Citizens only

 

- ban on clubs running on debt

 

- no foreign owners

 

- a fairer sharing of the TV money throughout the premier and football leagues

 

- a wage cap on player salaries by % of clubs turnover

 

- a player wage cap of £50,000 a week or less

 

- qoutas for homegrown players - and limits on foreign players - EU or otherwise

 

- a British & Irish League Cup

 

- return of the home internationals (perhaps as U23s)

 

fat chance that will ever happen (just like our national infrastructure the UK government will sit their and repeat the mantra of the free market as the bills get ever higher for us)

 

football is truly the game that is eating itself - I've already lost all affinity for the England team with its overpaid out of touch premiership stars and their hollywood lifestyle and attitude

 

who'd have thought that at Italia 90, Euro 96 or France 98????

 

how long is it before that is true of most people outside of the top tier clubs? - and then peoples feelings to the premier league or English football as an entity in itself

 

I'd agree with all this but you sound like my Grandad! Money's ruining the game, and yes he's right but what can we do? If you want to watch pure, proper football then you'd watch non-league stuff.

 

OK so we are getting to grips with the wrongs of the world. So we are in this mess of no money but suddenly may have found "a new direction" that inadvertently gives the club back to us.

 

So what should our PLAN be?

 

It is obvious that we need to stabilise the team and our league status. HOPEFULLY that will happen this year (I still won't make any judgement until the end of September BTW)

 

So we know that the BIG POISONOUS NASTY money in soccer is not going to run out this year (except maybe for us) and it is obvious that our better youngsters WILL be picked off, either in January or in the summer. Hopefully for Walcottesque sums but...

 

So what I would like to se happening NOW and in January (IF we are stable) is that we start recruiting the NEXT level of youngsters, the 18-19 year olds who with a season in the reserves would strengthen the NEXT generation of replacements.

 

IF we understand that we need to produce a conveyor belt of talent, then the loss of our "new local stars" will be tempered by the INVESTMENT back into the machine to produce more and better ones READY to come into the first team.

 

Each year with more experience we could sign better kids, more mature Spidermen, faster Lallana's. THEN we really start to build something. (oh and maybe even full backs)

 

This year's kids MAY keep us in the CCC, but they WILL get poached, but the next ones who can be blooded this season and the replacements COULD take us closer to that top table.

 

IF we ever get back up there, then keeping the kids conveyor running MAY with the right investment in experience keep us up there. Bunch of has beens or cheap imports we never heard of won't.

 

(sh*t kids conveyor sounds like something GG put his Duty Free bag onto in that web photo doing the rounds)

 

But this "attitude change" needs to go really deep and not just be a one off short term solution to grease the wallets of the shareholders. It is a long term investment by all of us.

 

Gonna be interesting if Platini gets his way with the number of players in a squad that have been through the academy. Hurry up and pass that rule QUICK that'll screw Man C & Chelski

 

Didn't work for Crewe though, or any of the other clubs that have great youth teams but are not big clubs. You bring players through, sell them, bring some more through and at best maintain the level you're already at. The proposal to have a significant proportion of the team coming through the academy would address that balance though and I think we'd all welcome it.

[Thedelldays]

thing is...should we get taken over tomorrow by someone with money to burn then opinions would be very different and in full support of it....

[Hayling Saint]

Years ago, I would have said that this club needed to invest in playing talent. I cried out for a Keeganesque signing. A whopping name - massive.

 

Bring me a Beckham I cried. Over and over.

 

Spunk money away on the best names on the highest salaries.

 

What a fecking idiot I was (still am, sure, mock me).

 

What the feck would I want to support propping up the ludicrous modern footballer's wages for? Perpetuating the myth of SKY's glamarous Premiership - with all its drama and excitement. Drama and excitement?? My ass. What a mug. I'm cancelling my subscription as soon as the cricket is over.

 

Because finally, finally, finally. King Kev has proved it.

 

Money doesn't buy you the one thing that I really want to see in my team.

 

A little bit of 'class'.

 

Ahsley with all his cash is like the rest of the Premiership and the new owners. Easy come, easy go money without any roots in what local football clubs are about.

 

They're about local people, supporting local teams, ideally filled with local players.

 

Feck the Chairman. I give not one hoot who he is nor where he came from.

 

At last, I can look out on the pitch and see players playing for their shirts, their club - my club. And players like Gillet, Surman, White, James, McGoldrick - my players. Giving 100% for my team. Well, thank the Lord for that - at last.

 

Bring it on I say. And if we lose doing it, so be it. At least I feel some pride again.

Brilliant

[lordswoodsaints]

the truth is that the richest premiership clubs no longer need fans,they dont need their money and are most likely frowned upon as an interfering annoyance.

the likes of chelsea,manu and now man city no longer need to rely on the income generated by gate receipts to pay the players as it probably wouldnt even be enough to pay the wages of 1 star let alone 11.

i certainly dont agree with a club buying the league,but it would be nice to have a few quid to be able to compete on a more even keel.

[Johnny Shearer]

Lets face facts, if we had a mega rich owner we wouldn't give a toss about where he got the money from. And whilst it's always nice to see home-grown players we would be too concerned with actually tryng to win something or qulify for Europe to really give a monkeys.

 

Of course thats the case for me. If a rich person came in, I wouldn't give a flying fig where there money has come from - as long as the spending is done in a sensible manner and not spanked on average players and the team improves.

 

HOWEVER a takeover is always the next friday away . So until then I'll take what we have now.

[dubai_phil]

But any good ones from the next lot will just get poached as well! We are now well and truly in the lower pecking order and at the mercy of those Clubs that have the wonga.

 

Additionally, it is a big ask to keep producing youngsters in such a quantity each and every season. I'm not sure any Club has prodcued such a vast number each year.

 

Many clubs are aware of the benefits of producing youth (for your own team and also as a revenue generator), and sadly we are just one of a number of middle CCC clubs looking for that odd promotion place.

 

It's a bit like New Orleans, you know it's gonna flood so do you just sit back every year and say bring it on or do you work to maybe move to slightly higher ground if you live there or try and build the barriers a little higher?

 

The point being is that the players will ALWAYS get poached, so either you plan for that and create the machine to keep bringing them in OR you buy mediocrity that nobody wants to buy (Thomas, Euell to name a couple of examples).

 

Also, I agree that producing the kids from scratch is a hard ask, but producing them from 18 or 19 is not so tough. Look at our squad now, Spiderman, Holmes and (we hope) Rasmi were 20 something and being overlooked. How many PL & CCC clubs have talented kids being overlooked (how about us last year as an example).

250k for Gillett last year and we'd have bitten the hand off (as an example).

We didn't rate an 18 year old - Nile Ranger - but Newcastle did. Plenty of those kids around rather than the 15 year olds - that WILL take time and I agree is a tough ask.

[dubai_phil]

the truth is that the richest premiership clubs no longer need fans,they dont need their money and are most likely frowned upon as an interfering annoyance.the likes of chelsea,manu and now man city no longer need to rely on the income generated by gate receipts to pay the players as it probably wouldnt even be enough to pay the wages of 1 star let alone 11.

i certainly dont agree with a club buying the league,but it would be nice to have a few quid to be able to compete on a more even keel.

 

Don't worry. if the Brit fans cannot be bothered to turn up for a game, they'll find plenty in Asia, US etc.

The TV companies are more worried at how their product looks on the screens around the world than anyhing else these days. They provide the money, they want entertainment

 

If it keeps going you can see the Sky Producer demanding the manager subs his keeper for another attacker if a game becomes too boring....

[Legod Second Coming]

thing is...should we get taken over tomorrow by someone with money to burn then opinions would be very different and in full support of it....

 

Nah, not me DD. Would p!ss me off a bit now actually.

Just seen an interview with Toon fans talking about Ashley - watch it on BBC.co.uk.

It's laughable. One minute they complain Ashley is only in it for the money, then they bang on about needed Arab owners to buy success!!

 

Buy success? Buy it?

 

I want to EARN it.

 

Call me old fashioned but if more people woke up wanting to be farmers than famous, the world might be a more industrious, considerate place.

 

And we might all pay a fair price for a fair product and not shaft one another at the drop of a hat...

 

Ah, feck, I'm just getting old!!!

[Thedelldays]

Nah, not me DD. Would p!ss me off a bit now actually.

Just seen an interview with Toon fans talking about Ashley - watch it on BBC.co.uk.

It's laughable. One minute they complain Ashley is only in it for the money, then they bang on about needed Arab owners to buy success!!

 

Buy success? Buy it?

 

I want to EARN it.

 

Call me old fashioned but if more people woke up wanting to be farmers than famous, the world might be a more industrious, considerate place.

 

And we might all pay a fair price for a fair product and not shaft one another at the drop of a hat...

 

Ah, feck, I'm just getting old!!!

 

but you would still have to earn success...regardless of how much money you get

 

lets say we splashed 250m, like abramovic did in his first 2 years...they had won the league yes, but they also had the added bonus of man utd changing around a few players (which they do every 5 years or so)...to win anything in this country, with any amount of money, you have to earn it and get loads of luck along the way..

 

even pomey earned it last year and had their fair share of luck....their cup game at Old Trafford shows both of these factors...

 

money just sets the playing field you are at....does not mean you will win or achieve anything...

[alpine_saint]

Nah, not me DD. Would p!ss me off a bit now actually.

Just seen an interview with Toon fans talking about Ashley - watch it on BBC.co.uk.

It's laughable. One minute they complain Ashley is only in it for the money, then they bang on about needed Arab owners to buy success!!

 

Buy success? Buy it?

 

I want to EARN it.

 

Call me old fashioned but if more people woke up wanting to be farmers than famous, the world might be a more industrious, considerate place.

 

And we might all pay a fair price for a fair product and not shaft one another at the drop of a hat...

 

Ah, feck, I'm just getting old!!!

 

So LGSC would like to see the inevitable administration come, just so long as he sees pretty tappy-tappy stuff for a few weeks by a bunch of over-excited kids, rather than bite the arm off an investor that might just save this club he professes to love.

 

???????????????

[um pahars]

It's a bit like New Orleans, you know it's gonna flood so do you just sit back every year and say bring it on or do you work to maybe move to slightly higher ground if you live there or try and build the barriers a little higher?

 

The point being is that the players will ALWAYS get poached, so either you plan for that and create the machine to keep bringing them in OR you buy mediocrity that nobody wants to buy (Thomas, Euell to name a couple of examples).

 

I'm certainly not saying we just sit back and accept life down here, I'm just saying that as one of probably 15 other teams in the same boat, we are all just doing the same thing and fighting for probably one promotion place (assuming the other two are taken by one of the 6 parachute laden yo-yo clubs).

 

For me creating a conveyor belt of talent is not a guarantee of promotion, and I would argue you actually need a cohesive battling side all pulling together under a strong manager (and including a few bruisers in there).

[Legod Second Coming]

So LGSC would like to see the inevitable administration come, just so long as he sees pretty tappy-tappy stuff for a few weeks by a bunch of over-excited kids, rather than bite the arm off an investor that might just save this club he professes to love.

 

???????????????

 

ahh, I KNEW it. I KNEW you of all people would call it tippy-tappy.

[offix]

Yep. There is something inherently child-like about some claiming they wouldn't want it any other way than it is now. Like a kid being told to give a toy back to another kid who he snatched it from - "didnt want it anyway"...

 

Now come on Alpine, let's at least admit that the sentiment expressed in the lead post of this thread is perfectly understandable.

 

In a perfect world Saints would have a team with predominantly local talent AND be competitive at the highest level. I would want that.

 

But unfortunately that's Utopia. The world isn't perfect, and currently the world of Saints is far from it. We have to deal with the world as it is, warts and all. For me that means that a rich owner who can bring in the talent that can have us performing at or near the top is a choice that I would prefer over what we have now. Others have differing preferences. Those differences make the world go around.

Edited 2 September, 2008 by offix

[Polaroid Saint]

Great original post LSC, I agree sir.

 

Plus, "the Governement" or rather the FA (as it's their job not Mr Browns) ARE doing something about the current state of English football. They are attempting, from youth and grass-roots up, to put the beauty back into the game. And by jove I think it might just work, WE (all fans, players, officials) need to support it and it may take a whole generation to achieve. But it'll be worth it!

 

in the mine time, it's lovely to see Saints playing football again. Hurrah.

[Wes Tender]

I read the excited sentiments that whether by accident or design because of our dire financial situation, we somehow have our club back. Unless I'm very much mistaken, we were told that we had our club back when Lowe was ousted by Wilde. Now the two failed ex-chairmen are back in control, we have been forced to sell everything that has not been bolted down and are asked to accept the concept that we have our club back because all of our higher earning players are gone, giving the youngsters a place in the first team.

 

Apparently this feeling comes about because we can only afford the wages of youngsters or ageing journeymen, but they are mostly local lads proud to wear the shirt, the youngsters full of idealistic endeavour and the older players just happy that somebody still wants them.

 

Currently failing to arouse any pertinence in the euphoria is the background of how this situation came about and the motivation for the return of Lowe and Wilde. Whereas there might well be elements of restoring bruised egos, ultimately most would attribute their return to protecting their investments rather than just purely for their love of the club. But their motives are irrelevant in the face of the position that it produced, that somehow because of the circumstances that they were both largely guilty of introducing, we apparently have our club back.

 

Although of course it is far too early in the season to make judgements in any particular direction at the moment. Why the euphoria quite so early? Is it because the transfer window has closed without us losing any more players? That situation is only fairly short term. Any player who shines will quickly depart for the promised land of the Premiership as soon as an agent from a big club waves his chequebook in front of him. Will some be as happy when we just become a conveyor belt feeder club like Crewe? We can't afford to develop players and keep them if reasonable money is offered for them and because of that, we will almost certainly never regain promotion.

 

Whereas it is great to see a bunch of our spirited young players playing with passion and commitment, it is too early to know whether a match like that against Blackpool was an off day or the shape of things to come. Whether they had sussed us out and beaten us by strategy, or whether JP has the nous to make adjustments himself to overcome rivals and whether the youngsters have the ability to play to that plan. We don't know how many of the squad will succumb to injuries when we do not have deep cover in the squad.

 

But as pointed out by somebody already, the feeling might be very diferent if a takeover were to take place by somebody with enough spare change to buy in some well known quality players. It is all very well celebrating the joy of watching the home grown talent develop and I wonder why most did not avail themselves of the opportunity of watching it all for free when these players were in the youth teams or reserves. Unfortunately, it costs the same to watch the youngsters at a match here as it does at many Premiership clubs to watch the World stars of the top teams and we might be getting entertainment, but we sure as hell aren't getting value, which might account for the half full stadium.

[St Landrew]

I read the excited sentiments that whether by accident or design because of our dire financial situation, we somehow have our club back. Unless I'm very much mistaken, we were told that we had our club back when Lowe was ousted by Wilde. Now the two failed ex-chairmen are back in control, we have been forced to sell everything that has not been bolted down and are asked to accept the concept that we have our club back because all of our higher earning players are gone, giving the youngsters a place in the first team.

 

Apparently this feeling comes about because we can only afford the wages of youngsters or ageing journeymen, but they are mostly local lads proud to wear the shirt, the youngsters full of idealistic endeavour and the older players just happy that somebody still wants them.

 

Currently failing to arouse any pertinence in the euphoria is the background of how this situation came about and the motivation for the return of Lowe and Wilde. Whereas there might well be elements of restoring bruised egos, ultimately most would attribute their return to protecting their investments rather than just purely for their love of the club. But their motives are irrelevant in the face of the position that it produced, that somehow because of the circumstances that they were both largely guilty of introducing, we apparently have our club back.

 

Although of course it is far too early in the season to make judgements in any particular direction at the moment. Why the euphoria quite so early? Is it because the transfer window has closed without us losing any more players? That situation is only fairly short term. Any player who shines will quickly depart for the promised land of the Premiership as soon as an agent from a big club waves his chequebook in front of him. Will some be as happy when we just become a conveyor belt feeder club like Crewe? We can't afford to develop players and keep them if reasonable money is offered for them and because of that, we will almost certainly never regain promotion.

 

Whereas it is great to see a bunch of our spirited young players playing with passion and commitment, it is too early to know whether a match like that against Blackpool was an off day or the shape of things to come. Whether they had sussed us out and beaten us by strategy, or whether JP has the nous to make adjustments himself to overcome rivals and whether the youngsters have the ability to play to that plan. We don't know how many of the squad will succumb to injuries when we do not have deep cover in the squad.

 

But as pointed out by somebody already, the feeling might be very diferent if a takeover were to take place by somebody with enough spare change to buy in some well known quality players. It is all very well celebrating the joy of watching the home grown talent develop and I wonder why most did not avail themselves of the opportunity of watching it all for free when these players were in the youth teams or reserves. Unfortunately, it costs the same to watch the youngsters at a match here as it does at many Premiership clubs to watch the World stars of the top teams and we might be getting entertainment, but we sure as hell aren't getting value, which might account for the half full stadium.

 

That obviously took a lot of soul searching, and thought. It's the pessimistic place we might all go to, but try not to. In a sense it harks back to an era when Saints were a much easier club to support. But as supporters who have to rise above that sort of attitude. This club is here, and the personnel change, but the fans stay. Or most of them at least. One day it may be just some of them. Maybe most of us will have gone our separate ways eventually.

 

But we support for the times when it won't be so. It's a fine balance, between this family club, and big success, big club attitude. Who wouldn't, hand-on-heart, welcome the next mega rich owner to walk through the door. It's really, really nice to see the young footballers playing such great-to-watch football. But I'd also like to see Saints be the best. Isn't that what we always hope for them..?

 

Btw, Wes. I kind of agreeing with your last post. I thought I'd make that clear because I'm off to bed and won't be answering any comeback.

[Saint Charlie]

Aye you being paid by Lowe to spout spin 24/7 ???

 

Are you paid by Sacha Gaydamak and Peter Storrie for the same reason?

 

Whilst you raise some good points, most threads read like:

 

Someone

Alpine

Someone else

Alpine

Alpine

Someone else

Someone else

Alpine

Someone else

Alpine

Alpine

 

 

I have paid £5 gladly, but not just to listen only to you. Please give others a chance. You seem to hijack most threads, as I'm sure Mods are aware. You should not of course be banned, but constant negativity just riles other posters (conveniently you were less forthcoming with your posts after we beat Derby)

 

Once you have been to SMS this season then please tell us your thoughts but until then please stick to a sensible amount of posts per thread.

 

Thank you Sir, and before you ask, most other posters probably agree with me...

Edited 2 September, 2008 by Saint Charlie

[La BoIS Saint]

Agree with you Legod totally. Can't understand why people are saying things like "why not watch non-league football". The success of AFC Wimbledon and FCUM shows that if you want to you can do it. You're more in touch, there's less crap going on (actually not sure that is really true with non-league stuff) and it's got to be more fun.

 

When we were in Prem I was seriously ****ed off about paying £40 to see Chelski so don't people say everything was rosy then.

[Arizona]

Personally, I don't care if the club is being run by Steve Claridge and Hitler. When I go to games I want to be entertained and see the team win. That's about it really.

 

Yes, it's always nice to see a couple of home grown local lads breaking into the squad, but if I wanted to see a whole team of them, I'd go and watch someone like CSKA Hedge End.

 

Having quality players is nice. There are (or where) certain players in the team who at times were worth the entrance fee on their own because generally, you knew you were going to be entertained watching them creating moves and scoring goals. Now most of them are gone and suddenly watching Saints seems less appealing.

 

I personally enjoyed watching Jones, Rasiak, Saganowski, Skacel, Bale, Belmadi, Vignal, Licka, Walcott and Kosowski from the CCC days of old.

[offix]

Once you have been to SMS this season then please tell us your thoughts but until then please stick to a sensible amount of posts per thread.

 

Ah, that's a new one on me! So now the number of visits to SMS determines how often one can post? How generous of you to let us even post at all! Thank you for your generosity:rolleyes:

[Secret Site Agent]

Years ago, I would have said that this club needed to invest in playing talent. I cried out for a Keeganesque signing. A whopping name - massive.

 

Bring me a Beckham I cried. Over and over.

 

Spunk money away on the best names on the highest salaries.

 

What a fecking idiot I was (still am, sure, mock me).

 

What the feck would I want to support propping up the ludicrous modern footballer's wages for? Perpetuating the myth of SKY's glamarous Premiership - with all its drama and excitement. Drama and excitement?? My ass. What a mug. I'm cancelling my subscription as soon as the cricket is over.

 

Because finally, finally, finally. King Kev has proved it.

 

Money doesn't buy you the one thing that I really want to see in my team.

 

A little bit of 'class'.

 

Ahsley with all his cash is like the rest of the Premiership and the new owners. Easy come, easy go money without any roots in what local football clubs are about.

 

They're about local people, supporting local teams, ideally filled with local players.

 

Feck the Chairman. I give not one hoot who he is nor where he came from.

 

At last, I can look out on the pitch and see players playing for their shirts, their club - my club. And players like Gillet, Surman, White, James, McGoldrick - my players. Giving 100% for my team. Well, thank the Lord for that - at last.

 

Bring it on I say. And if we lose doing it, so be it. At least I feel some pride again.

 

I have been saying this for years and years. And a manager with the guts to drop players who don't perform and not choose them based on reputation and popularism.

 

Take it upto England level.

(OH no, how DARE he not choose Owen. I say YES Bdrop the bastard because he is not performing on the international stage. And drop bloody Rooney as well, and give McG a chance.)

 

Wow, high on Fumes.

[alpine_saint]

Ah, that's a new one on me! So now the number of visits to SMS determines how often one can post? How generous of you to let us even post at all! Thank you for your generosity:rolleyes:

 

Yep, its bloody pathetic. If he doesnt want to read my posts so badly, he can put me on ignore. I will post as often as I wish if I feel I have something to say.

[Minty]

I read the excited sentiments that whether by accident or design because of our dire financial situation, we somehow have our club back. Unless I'm very much mistaken, we were told that we had our club back when Lowe was ousted by Wilde.

 

Currently failing to arouse any pertinence in the euphoria is the background of how this situation came about and the motivation for the return of Lowe and Wilde. Whereas there might well be elements of restoring bruised egos, ultimately most would attribute their return to protecting their investments rather than just purely for their love of the club. But their motives are irrelevant in the face of the position that it produced, that somehow because of the circumstances that they were both largely guilty of introducing, we apparently have our club back.

 

Wes, I totally understand what you're saying and agree with much of it.

 

Being told we 'have our club back' is a million miles from actually feeling as though we have it back... but I think that is seperate from what I personally mentioned above. I don't think we do have it back at all, but I AM happier with the circumstances we find ourselves, in terms not being reliant on outsiders and trying to coach success rather than buy it.

 

I entirely recognise we are in this position more by luck than design.... however that still doesn't the fact that I prefer these circumstances, and ongoing sustainability, to any that involve millions of pounds in outside investment. As for their motives, I couldn't say... some are adamant it is for one reason or another, but frankly, as long as they do what I feel is in the best interests of the club in the long term, I'm happy enough.

 

Although of course it is far too early in the season to make judgements in any particular direction at the moment. Why the euphoria quite so early? Is it because the transfer window has closed without us losing any more players? That situation is only fairly short term. Any player who shines will quickly depart for the promised land of the Premiership as soon as an agent from a big club waves his chequebook in front of him. Will some be as happy when we just become a conveyor belt feeder club like Crewe? We can't afford to develop players and keep them if reasonable money is offered for them and because of that, we will almost certainly never regain promotion.

I'm not euphoric, far from it, and I don't think many are. Some probably are coming across that way but it appears to me that most are simply happy that we have some potential for entertaining football. As has been mentioned elsehwhere, I think every club is a potential 'player conveyor' and that will never change whilst bigger clubs can pay their way and players are lured by the big money. That said, if we can achieve relative success and players enjoy playing for us then I don't see why we can't push for promotion but as I also mentioned before, I'm not actually sure I want to gain promotion to a league where the size of wallet rules.

 

Whereas it is great to see a bunch of our spirited young players playing with passion and commitment, it is too early to know whether a match like that against Blackpool was an off day or the shape of things to come. Whether they had sussed us out and beaten us by strategy, or whether JP has the nous to make adjustments himself to overcome rivals and whether the youngsters have the ability to play to that plan. We don't know how many of the squad will succumb to injuries when we do not have deep cover in the squad.

Entirely agree, but one game is unimportant in the great scheme of things IMO. This is all about a long term plan for me, so I won't be getting hung up over one result, good or bad.

 

But as pointed out by somebody already, the feeling might be very diferent if a takeover were to take place by somebody with enough spare change to buy in some well known quality players. It is all very well celebrating the joy of watching the home grown talent develop and I wonder why most did not avail themselves of the opportunity of watching it all for free when these players were in the youth teams or reserves. Unfortunately, it costs the same to watch the youngsters at a match here as it does at many Premiership clubs to watch the World stars of the top teams and we might be getting entertainment, but we sure as hell aren't getting value, which might account for the half full stadium.

 

Well I can quite happily state that my feelings will never be different. We can't change football back to how it used to be, but having spent many years watching our Academy and reserve sides, I enjoy keeping in touch with the junior aspects of football, the 'grass roots' if you like, and perhaps that's one reason why I can gain enjoyment from any game even if the result doesn't go our way. Value for money is a perception and down to the individual so it's not for me to tell others why they should or should not be going but I do hope that more fans will come back to support the team.

[LaptopSaint]

The success of AFC Wimbledon and FCUM shows that if you want to you can do it. You're more in touch, there's less crap going on (actually not sure that is really true with non-league stuff) and it's got to be more fun.QUOTE]

 

I was thinking the same thing. Look at the Dons. Top of the Blue Square South -- with a realistic chance next season of having a shot at getting back into the Football League proper. How much fun must their fans have had since that day a few years ago when they organised a kickabout on Wimbledon Common to find some players.

 

So if the depressives on here are so certain administration is coming, fear not. We'll form AFC Southampton and have a trial on the Common. Who knows -- in a few years -- we might be competing with Salisbury. But we'll have a laugh doing it, and we'll be proud of our team.

[Wes Tender]

Wes, I totally understand what you're saying and agree with much of it.

 

Being told we 'have our club back' is a million miles from actually feeling as though we have it back... but I think that is seperate from what I personally mentioned above. I don't think we do have it back at all, but I AM happier with the circumstances we find ourselves, in terms not being reliant on outsiders and trying to coach success rather than buy it.

 

I entirely recognise we are in this position more by luck than design.... however that still doesn't the fact that I prefer these circumstances, and ongoing sustainability, to any that involve millions of pounds in outside investment. As for their motives, I couldn't say... some are adamant it is for one reason or another, but frankly, as long as they do what I feel is in the best interests of the club in the long term, I'm happy enough.

 

 

I'm not euphoric, far from it, and I don't think many are. Some probably are coming across that way but it appears to me that most are simply happy that we have some potential for entertaining football. As has been mentioned elsehwhere, I think every club is a potential 'player conveyor' and that will never change whilst bigger clubs can pay their way and players are lured by the big money. That said, if we can achieve relative success and players enjoy playing for us then I don't see why we can't push for promotion but as I also mentioned before, I'm not actually sure I want to gain promotion to a league where the size of wallet rules.

 

 

Entirely agree, but one game is unimportant in the great scheme of things IMO. This is all about a long term plan for me, so I won't be getting hung up over one result, good or bad.

 

 

 

Well I can quite happily state that my feelings will never be different. We can't change football back to how it used to be, but having spent many years watching our Academy and reserve sides, I enjoy keeping in touch with the junior aspects of football, the 'grass roots' if you like, and perhaps that's one reason why I can gain enjoyment from any game even if the result doesn't go our way. Value for money is a perception and down to the individual so it's not for me to tell others why they should or should not be going but I do hope that more fans will come back to support the team.

 

Thanks for a well reasoned response. I think that the nub of the matter is that I wondered what had been the catalyst all of a sudden for all these euphoric outpourings. I can well understand that some prefer to see players who play with passion and commitment rather than overpaid older players resting on their laurels and seemingly not committed to the cause. Fair enough. But what brought all of this about? Was it the obscene amount of money that washes around the higher reaches of British football, provided by billionaires and SKY? Is this attitude going to prevail if we fall down a division, or failing that we have to sell all of our best youngsters, constantly replacing them with the next crop?

I don't necessarily want to be taken over by mega-rich owners. It will be quite sufficient to have enough cash to keep us afloat, having just enough to put ourselves back in control, rather than the banks. I think most would agree that the best decisions are taken when there are several options to choose from, not when you are backed into a corner with no alternatives.

Perhaps this thread is an attempt to look for any positives, because the reality of what might happen quite easily if it goes pear shaped doesn't bear thinking about. Perhaps that's it.

[Frank's cousin]

Years ago, I would have said that this club needed to invest in playing talent. I cried out for a Keeganesque signing. A whopping name - massive.

 

Bring me a Beckham I cried. Over and over.

 

Spunk money away on the best names on the highest salaries.

 

What a fecking idiot I was (still am, sure, mock me).

 

What the feck would I want to support propping up the ludicrous modern footballer's wages for? Perpetuating the myth of SKY's glamarous Premiership - with all its drama and excitement. Drama and excitement?? My ass. What a mug. I'm cancelling my subscription as soon as the cricket is over.

 

Because finally, finally, finally. King Kev has proved it.

 

Money doesn't buy you the one thing that I really want to see in my team.

 

A little bit of 'class'.

 

Ahsley with all his cash is like the rest of the Premiership and the new owners. Easy come, easy go money without any roots in what local football clubs are about.

 

They're about local people, supporting local teams, ideally filled with local players.

 

Feck the Chairman. I give not one hoot who he is nor where he came from.

 

At last, I can look out on the pitch and see players playing for their shirts, their club - my club. And players like Gillet, Surman, White, James, McGoldrick - my players. Giving 100% for my team. Well, thank the Lord for that - at last.

 

Bring it on I say. And if we lose doing it, so be it. At least I feel some pride again.

 

What an excellent post - Totally agree. The sad fact is though that for clubs like us to and many others to survive on this ethos, they still need support and arses on seats - and sadly the kids and many of there parents even in the local area, would rather watch 'Utd' and the rest of teh so called greatest league in the world as they they believe the bullsh!t spouted in the media - they are lemmings without a mind of their own -

 

"I must follow success as sky tell me its great,the best most exciting even though its only ever down to two teams and ANY league in the world could do this with Skys money, I cannot think for myself and need to be associated with a 'big club' to make up for my small penis" Is their mantra

 

It is perhaps ironic that at this time we are actually seeing what really makes a club - what truely matters to fans and what really 'gives us our club back' - Its nothing to do with the chairman, board, money, old legends trading on past glories, or fan friendly rhetoric that we have had way to much of in the past two years - its really very simple - seeing a young team, many local, playing attractive football with enthusiasm and smiles on faces - like they care about the shirt - football that we as a club can be proud of, even if the results dont always go our way.

 

With luck, this will prove to be infectious and the fans will return.

[Give it to Ron]

thing is...should we get taken over tomorrow by someone with money to burn then opinions would be very different and in full support of it....

 

You mean football fans are fickle...bugger me I am shocked!

The Paul Allen saga was a classic example of how much greed we all have...in fact when it was rumoured another takeover was in the offing there was disappointment that they were not as rich as him!

A lot of it is green eyed monster stuff when looking at the other end of the M27 and how much investment they have had in.

 

What would be Utopia for me? Someone coming in and just paying off our debts to enable us to forget the Administration word for good.

We have the right model now....Chelsea are now really ramping up their academy as they realise its the best way.

 

Last Saturday I was more gutted at the defeat than ever.... why? Because I realise these lads are actually giving a **** and not just mercenary buggers and trying the best they can I even had a row with a bloke going down the stairs after Birmingham who asked why people were clapping when we had lost and he couldn't see the fact those nippers had treated us to some of the best football seen here in years.

 

The Robinho transfer 92k a week is obscene...its now cheaper to watch England than a Premiership game.

 

I have watched our academy for years it started when Walcott was about 15 and have seen the progression of these nippers to the first team and beyond...I have bought into the academy and the efforts Lowe, Prost, Henderson and now Hockaday put in and we have already reaped rewards in transfer fees that otherwise would of seen as sunk.

[Frank's cousin]

I dont think we should all be pointing fingures or having a go for being fickle though - I think the argument should really centre on what fans/supporters should be doing, which is feeling happy yo suuport their team under whatever circumstances maybe? Right now we dont have a pot to **** in, but see kids that care and entertain us which makes many including me happier than for a long while -IF we suddenly had a Man City suize investor who was going to buy us out ofthis league I am sure again the majority would be happy, its the last two years of 'wildernesss and no direction or anything really to be proud of' that depressed us - perhaps the 1st Ted Bates statute was symbolic of the mess we were in and when that was put right the clouds could begin to lift?

 

I do however agree with the sentiment that success does mean so much more when its achieved AGAINST the odds or in footballs case without the mega bucks - through cgraft and guile and having those representing the club actually care about it. For me the one thing I always wished would be drummed into youngsters from an early age is that premise that sure you can transfer yourself to Man U and take teh short cut to medals and trophies, but thats the easy route - far better to stay and have your very preseence attract better playesr and achieve success with those you have come up through the academy with - Imagine the side now with Walcott and Bale - had they had this foresight....

[dubai_phil]

The psychology of being a Saints fan is interesting.

 

In our PL years no matter what anyone says, we were always in trouble with such small crowds and income at the Dell, (much though we loved it)

 

As a result for many of our latter PL years we had what the Americans would call "a losing season" where defeat was expected and a draw often greeted as if it were a victory.

 

Sure we had some flashes and moments (03 of course) and we had MLT to provide the hope and magic, but overall as I recall from other threads, we lost more than we ever won.

 

Survival was the key. We stayed up but year on year WE WERE LOSERS.

 

When we dropped into the CCC we had an arrogance, we did not deserve to be there, we would be straight back up, and of course in that first year we only just about hung on. Then we had the play-off year. We actually had a winning season, but it never felt like it as it was only a run at the end of the season that got us there.

 

All of that "success" was about how much we spent or how big the name of the players we were signing was. Fuller was 90k so he was cr*p, even though he had a good season last year and is now playing in the PL and scored the goal of the week.

 

Now though we seem to have grown up. Nobody is happy at the financial mess we are in, and we have started to become enthused by the quality of a performance and the commitment of the players. We are STARTING to discover Football again.

 

I really do not believe that this is a "happy clappy" thing, I also don't think we have lost our marbles and are suddenly thinking this is the best thing ever, I think it is a sudden realisation that despite the money and the names, we have been watching dross.

 

We have forgotten that going to football was supposed to be ENTERTAINMENT. It had become a sort of self-flagellation. The reaction to the early games this season is one of SHOCK and a slow awakening of what football used to be as a Saints fan.

 

A key reason we see so few kids in Saints shirts is that all they would remember is being cr*p. The kids have no legends as we all did when we first started, no magic moments, only doom, gloom and politics.

 

One thing that stands out for me in many of the reports is that we seem to have lost many fans but the number of people who go simply to have their weekly fill of more depression seems to have increased. The moaners had taken over the asylum, they were programmed to always complain. If the football was sh*t then maybe they felt a little better about their own lot in life.

 

But now suddenly we have entertainment again, and as a collective of fans we are in a state of mental shock. It is not right, we should be rubbish, we should have JW, and all his predecessors to blame for all that is wrong in the world. Now we cannot blame an 18 year old French kid and even if we don't win we actually ENJOYED what we saw on the pitch.

 

It is freaking us out, it is putting a slow smile back on the face, we're happy that it went pear shaped Saturday as that put us back into our comfort zone of being abused and giving it. We are British dammit, we are programmed from birth by the media to be unhappy, if it isn't BAD news it isn't NEWS, We can't go to footbal and ENJOY it!

 

But again, slowly I detect that the fans just maybe coming out of their slumber and realising that if the team play with commitment and a smile and no little skill, we as fans may just remember how to smile ourselves.

 

After all these years, just imagine what it would actually feel like to have a "Winning Season" and not to be pereninal losers.

 

(Probably be another year before it happens though)

[dubai_phil]

LSC starts this thread yesterday, today the Telegraph weighs in with it's own take

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/03/do0304.xml

 

We aren't the only ones thinking about all this

[ottery st mary]

Phil...Understood what you say apart from some of the big words but my classes are going well so i will catch up.

Now tell me what this self-flagellation you speak of as I obviously have not been doing that at games. Is it part of being a Saints fan or part of the requirement for the entertainment part or just something you picked up over there?

[alpine_saint]

LSC starts this thread yesterday, today the Telegraph weighs in with it's own take

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/03/do0304.xml

 

We aren't the only ones thinking about all this

 

So what's the answer ????

 

Considering the mega-rich owners coming into football over the last few years, it seems to me Lowe chose the absolutely worst moment to get c.ocky and take his eye off the ball, leading to our relegation.

 

If it had happened 5 yrs earlier, we wouldn't feel so wretched.

 

If it hadnt happened, we probably be one of the rich big-boys under new owners too.

[dubai_phil]

Phil...Understood what you say apart from some of the big words but my classes are going well so i will catch up.

Now tell me what this self-flagellation you speak of as I obviously have not been doing that at games. Is it part of being a Saints fan or part of the requirement for the entertainment part or just something you picked up over there?

 

:-)

 

Easy - 1) white haired bloke in the Da Vinci code... 2) what happens to people who KNOWINGLY break the rules in places like Saudi (allegedly)

 

Another one - sitting in the front row behind the goal at Sunderland away, 30 mile an hour wind into your face, temperature of zero and intermittent snow in face while we lose 2-0 and have no shots at goal that's self flagellation - we could have stayed in the pub as we sort of knew what was coming.....

 

By contrast, externally inflicted flagellation - Opening day of the season at home to Palace last year, that wasn't self abuse as we all had high hopes of walking the league.

 

HTH

[ottery st mary]

:-)

 

Easy - 1) white haired bloke in the Da Vinci code... 2) what happens to people who KNOWINGLY break the rules in places like Saudi (allegedly)

 

Another one - sitting in the front row behind the goal at Sunderland away, 30 mile an hour wind into your face, temperature of zero and intermittent snow in face while we lose 2-0 and have no shots at goal that's self flagellation - we could have stayed in the pub as we sort of knew what was coming.....

 

By contrast, externally inflicted flagellation - Opening day of the season at home to Palace last year, that wasn't self abuse as we all had high hopes of walking the league.

 

HTH

 

Understood...

Couple on beach in your part of the world.

Missed Sunderland game but at similar over years so have felt it many times.

Was there at home to Palace and did have hopes but felt a lot of pain for many weeks afterwards.

Thank you.

[Snowballs2]

One has to question the mentality of supporters who go to a game having paid a not inconsiderable sum of money knowing that a very young team is almost certain to get beaten. We must have about 15,000 masochists as supporters right now. For me I would make the likes of Skacel et al play for the money they get, or sue them for not fullfilling their contract . Lets build a team of young players around the remaining old heads.

[dubai_phil]

alpine_saint;36656]So what's the answer ???? 42

 

Think that is the problem, we didn't really know what the question was. We talk on here about investment and consortium. I have long felt that was NOt what is needed. I have felt that an investor should be an EGOTIST or a foreign entity wishing to create a global brand. The article is clear, it is very difficult to invest in football and make a profit. Taksin has and the Yanks at Liverpool could have (if they'd let DIC buy them), but for the rest of the ladder below them....

I still feel (depsite the jokes) that there IS an opportunity for a "global brand" of Southampton FC. But I also think we lost that spirit. PERHAPS the new way is something a global entity could buy into = Dubai grew from nothing so they should buy us and build from nothing with the kids. (I wish) rather than any old millionaire, because in the grand scheme of things - anyone else won't have enough money.

 

Considering the mega-rich owners coming into football over the last few years, it seems to me Lowe chose the absolutely worst moment to get c.ocky and take his eye off the ball, leading to our relegation.

 

Ah the IF ONLY line. I of course agree with you, but again none of us expected it to happen when WGS left, and hindsight is a wonderous thing. The point is also of course we all KNOW that Rupert didn't try and find investment, but the Abramovich to Chelsea issue changed the whole ball game, even IF Rupert had been looking, we would never have got one of those, we may have got a Majedski, but even he couldn't cope with the demands of the PL

 

If it had happened 5 yrs earlier, we wouldn't feel so wretched.

 

If Le Tissier had trained harder, drank more water, stayed fitter longer etc (If only again). Funnily enough that old chestnut Pride goeth before a Fall, seemed to be back to front for us - we fell but only really last season did our pride catch up and take a dive to make us feeling so wretched now

 

If it hadnt happened, we probably be one of the rich big-boys under new owners too.

 

Or we could have had a Taksin or a Gaydamark. Man City only survived by the skin of their teeth. What price Sk8tes before long? No matter what WE think, we are not a big enough global brand, and to be honest I have no idea why people think City are either. Wigan, Bolton Middlesborough have rich owners but it isn't enough and HOW MANY seats are empty every week at the Riverside?

But BY CRIKEY it would have been nice to have ONLY been a Bolton or Wigan these past 3 years:-)

Edited 3 September, 2008 by dubai_phil
got my bolds back to front:-)

[Bourne Valley Saint]

I totally agree with the original post. I was thinking the same thing last night. Football at the top level is now obscene. One player costing half a million more than it did to build our fantastic stadium!! Sky sports news creaming themselves over Berbatov and these Arabs taking over from the dodgy Thai at Man City. The premiership is just a rich man's toy - like a rich school brat wanting all the best toys. What do you think the youngsters on the books at Man City reckon of this takeover? They'll end up at Bury or Rochdale now - no chance of breaking into the first team.

 

I for one, am extremely happy with our lot at Southampton at present where the home grown youngsters are given a chance to play if they are good enough. Get rid of the foreign mercenaries and old pros looking for one last pay packet. Use players who care for the club and where money is not their "God" (remember MLT). I'll carry on watching Saints if we continue as we are but if we ever go down the Chelski, Man City, Pomp*y route, where money is everything, I don't think I'll bother.

[CB Fry]

So what's the answer ????

 

Considering the mega-rich owners coming into football over the last few years, it seems to me Lowe chose the absolutely worst moment to get c.ocky and take his eye off the ball, leading to our relegation.

 

If it had happened 5 yrs earlier, we wouldn't feel so wretched.

 

If it hadnt happened, we probably be one of the rich big-boys under new owners too.

 

 

That's just silly.

 

We could have got relegated any time between 1986 and 1997 and came incredibly close in many, many, many of those seasons, and were it not for one (Le) genius we would have.

 

Being relegated in any of those seasons would have been "the absolute worst time" as well.

 

We only had one brush with relegation in 1999 after that, and funnily enough that season finished Le Tissier's significant contributions (Dell last day cameo notwithstanding).

 

If we had been relegated in those many seasons of mid table super safety, then they would have been the "absolute worst time" as well.

 

And say if Luggy hadn't been sacked, or even if he had, the chances are we still would have been relegated between then and now.

 

It was always, always going to happen someday. And you can blame "not investing in the team" or whatever but if doing exactly that didn't relegate Leeds, Blackburn, Coventry, Ipswich, Bradford, Forest and Leicester you'd have a point. But it relegated all of them. And lots of those clubs got through loads of managers too. Lowe didn't invent changing managers like some seem to think.

 

Finally I tell you now, you won't find any Coventry, Forest, Leeds, Bradford, Leicester or Wolves fans dancing round the room saying "thank god we didn't get relegated from the Prem that season Southampton did that was the absolute worst time to get relegated, we're much better off now".

 

We had season after season after season after season after season after season after season to die for. Brilliant, brilliant seasons for a club our size.

 

But people thinking we had some divine right to stay up for ever are just kidding themselves.

 

 

 

##########################################

 

 

 

 

 

Back on topic - LGSC - great thread starting post. Love the romance of your thoughts, especially as it's a hell of a long way from the heated debates we once had......(you were still right about Tevez at WHU though..)

 

 

Got to say, the Man City thing really makes me think that the Prem is just a joke, and will soon by twelve mega clubs breaking away to form their own super league. And we won't be part of it, not even if we get promoted this season.

 

And I say good.

 

There is a "People's League" ready to emerge from this farce where the people of Southampton, Nottingham, Leeds, Leicester, Norwich, Ipswich, Sunderland, Wolverhampton, Bolton, Blackburn, Sheffield put clubs out to play each other in a competitive league where any one of ten clubs could win it in August.

 

Proper teams from proper cities with quotas of locally produced talent, and a wage cap (by club, not by player) to keep stupid wages down. And two matches a week on BBC One so the whole country can see it, and get involved.

[Legod Second Coming]

One has to question the mentality of supporters who go to a game having paid a not inconsiderable sum of money knowing that a very young team is almost certain to get beaten. We must have about 15,000 masochists as supporters right now. For me I would make the likes of Skacel et al play for the money they get, or sue them for not fullfilling their contract . Lets build a team of young players around the remaining old heads.

 

For me, football has never been about trophies. Yes, I love to win - of course. I then appreciate losing badly. I don't appreciate losing poorly, at all.

 

But in order of what I am looking for, I want a BIG FAT A* in EFFORT - because beyond that, nature will take its course.

 

Do the right things, work hard, try your best, give all of yourself -these are what I want my club to embody. If that delivers results, fantastic.

 

Now, by accident or design, I can see EVERY player straining their sinnews for the club, working together as a team, trying things, learning things, attempting above all to play football.

 

Do I want entertainment?? Well define entertainment? The bond between this club and me is not based on any heirarchical sense of trade - no-one in the right mind would CHOOSE to support this club. No-one in the right mind would choose to support a football club, period.

 

For some reason, it means something to me though. Enough to spunk away cash, enough for my wife to have my signed Cup Final shirt framed for Christmas, enough for me to hollar when we score, to swear when we feck up and to moan when we lose.

 

It's never, ever in my life been associated with money this football club. And by that I mean, I never considered my cash an investment, nor a cost, simply something I'm burdened to do - like taxes and National Insurance.

 

So, what would be the benefit of a takeover? Yes, suddenly we could be Manchester City. We could win the Champion's League. That could be me, my friends, my kids in Russia, screaming and celebrating. Wow. Think of it. The glamour, the excitement, the relief, the euphoria...

 

But above all, what do you want to win for??

 

PRIDE.

 

That's what drives us all to win. The pride to look back and say - see, that's me, I did that. I won that. Me. Why else would a sportsman get out of a bed in the morning. Why else do we strive to succeed? Self agrandisement maybe. But above all to be proud of our endeavours and sometimes to have others share that pride.

 

I don't go expecting my young team to get beaten, and I'm not averse to using whatever resources we have at our disposal.

 

I simply think that by luck, and not design, we now have the opportunity to watch something grow. And yes, come harvest time, some wheat will surely be sold to market. And in its place we'll plant more seeds. And harvest again. And again.

 

But finally, we might have an idea, a strategy, borne of survival instincts, but no bad thing because of it.

 

Masochist, me? Well you would have to be wouldn't you??

 

Or is it preferable to win simply to be associated with winning? Because if that's the case, we're all supporting the wrong club.

 

Superficial elation feels great but it doesn't sustain the soul.

 

And in the words of a Chelsea supporter I heard after a recent Cup Final victory: "where were you when we were sh!t". Where I've always been and always will be, in the stands, hoping...

 

And knowing that sometimes the journey travelled IS the destination.

[Saints Noog]

It must be an age thing but I'd love Saints to be billionaires and buying all the top talent, winning premierleague and champions league yr in yr out. Couldn't care less if the players buggered off the season after. It will be quality football and quality victorys.