"There's only one Johnny Hartson"

[derry]

If I knew how to report this post I would. After serving over 25 years and working in NI, the Falklands, Bosnia and the first Gulf War, not to mention other hot spots around the world - I am proud to say that I was there and did my bit.

 

You Sir, are a loudmouthed, sick, thick, uneducated pillock who does not deserve the service that these 'muppets' provide to you in keeping you safe at home.

 

Go take a look in the mirror - I doubt you will like what you see, while your there, engage brain and have a think about it for a moment eh?

 

Well said. If anybody needs shooting it's the lying, cheating, money grabbing politicians that sent them without good reason.

[sotonjoe]

i dont think anyones makes them "super dupa"....do they..?

 

lets say firemen were getting consistantly killed at work...i mean, at the same rate that the squaddies are...would they get the same attention

umm..yeah

 

 

I think some people do yes. The way any anti-soldier comments are twisted to make people seem morally and emotionally bankrupt is a sure fire sign of that in my opinion.

 

I think the way whoever it was on here chipped in with the initial comment I took umbridge with is also a clear sign. As I said, you get into a discussion about people doing something good or deserving of some recognition and there's always somebody trumpeting "what about the soldiers". I think people should be able to have their own moment, in this case we should be able to acknowledge how sad it is that Hartson has been diagnosed with cancer, without some smart arse shouting " but what about the soldiers".

 

Then as soon as somebody says anything to the contrary, there are always a few willing to get all macho and say "criticise the millitary? you should be ashamed of yourself", often without paying too much attention to what has actually been said!

 

And firemen? well, I'd be slightly more surprised at a firemen dying that a soldier, as I think statistically it is less likely. However, I can't say that it would come of much of a surprise. All in a day's work as they say. Actually, I probably respect firemen more than soliders tbh .. but that's an entirely different discussion!

[Polaroid Saint]

Sorry, that is actually quite funny, but also obviously very ignorant of the facts. Take a look at any of the Forces pages and examine the job specifications that need to be fulfilled. I can assure you that not many of them are going to be filled by people who have been conditioned by JW and plastic guns. To even attempt a small operation outside of the UK takes detailed planning and 100's of specialists. In Afghanistan how many IS engineers, RADAR Specs, Trauma Surgeons, Chinook Pilots, Supply Specialists & Explosive Technicians do you think were woed on by John Wayne - not too many.

 

And before you jump on the Infantry lads - most of them are using complex weapon systems that you wouldn't know the business end of if you were in their boots.

 

Give the lads some credit FFS - they are doing it so that your world is a safer place.

 

Sorry Micky, I think you misunderstood me, as SotonJoe has explained, I was merely suggesting that the desire to be a soldier is something that is encouraged from an early age, often in the most seemingly benign of ways.

 

I would in no-way undermine the ability of those who have the, to my eyes, deeply unenviable task of carrying out these military roles you suggest.

 

My one token is that I am not sure I believe they ARE doing it so 'my' world is a better place. In fact, most of the time I think the opposite. This not the indivdual soldiers fault of course, it is the military machine of which they are but a tiny replacable part.

[Thedelldays]

I think some people do yes. The way any anti-soldier comments are twisted to make people seem morally and emotionally bankrupt is a sure fire sign of that in my opinion.

 

I think the way whoever it was on here chipped in with the initial comment I took umbridge with is also a clear sign. As I said, you get into a discussion about people doing something good or deserving of some recognition and there's always somebody trumpeting "what about the soldiers". I think people should be able to have their own moment, in this case we should be able to acknowledge how sad it is that Hartson has been diagnosed with cancer, without some smart arse shouting " but what about the soldiers".

 

Then as soon as somebody says anything to the contrary, there are always a few willing to get all macho and say "criticise the millitary? you should be ashamed of yourself", often without paying too much attention to what has actually been said!

 

And firemen? well, I'd be slightly more surprised at a firemen dying that a soldier, as I think statistically it is less likely. However, I can't say that it would come of much of a surprise. All in a day's work as they say. Actually, I probably respect firemen more than soliders tbh .. but that's an entirely different discussion!

 

that is your opinion, that is fine..but was there any need to call people in the forces "muppets" from the off..? then you wonder why some (including myself) take offence

[sotonjoe]

If that theory were true then every boy with a normal upbringing would want to be a squaddie then. Funnily enough, my son is currently running around the house wioth a plastic gun pretending to be Rambo - I'll keep my eye on him.

 

I will except your dispassionate view of our Armed Forces - each to thier own, but your first post was offensive in the extreme and I do not believe that you have any right to label the lads as 'muppets'. If they are muppets then you are something I have just removed from my shoe sole and flicked back into the gutter.

 

 

I clearly meant 'muppets' more literally than you realise, not simply in the pejorative sense.

 

A muppet is a puppet, controlled by somebody else, either by strings or by inserting a hand up said puppet's backside.

 

I think that is a pretty apt way for describing a soldier (not the backside bit). They knowingly sign up for a job which could see them sent to some hellhole with some piddly gun for protection. They have no right to say "I don't fancy that" thanks and have to do as they are told. They allow their lives to be completely dictated and controlled by some government minister sat in Whitehall. Hence, they could be described as puppets, i.e. muppets.

 

You say that's heroic, I think it's craziness. I'm also capable of putting my point of view across without resorting to insults. I hope you understand what I meant by the word now anyway! To be fair, I agree the word has dodgy connotations and I could have inflamed less if i'd stuck with puppets but there we go.

Edited 16 July, 2009 by sotonjoe

[sotonjoe]

that is your opinion, that is fine..but was there any need to call people in the forces "muppets" from the off..? then you wonder why some (including myself) take offence

 

 

Actually, I've just explained that Delldays. Perhaps puppets would have been less inflammatory though eh?

[Thedelldays]

I clearly meant 'muppets' more literally than you realise, not simply in the pejorative sense.

 

A muppet is a puppet, controlled by somebody else, either by strings or by inserting a hand up said puppet's backside.

 

I think that is a pretty apt way for describing a soldier. They knowingly sign up for a job which could see them sent to some hellhole with some piddly gun for protection. They have no right to say "I don't fancy that" thanks and have to do as they are told. They allow their lives to be completely dictated and controlled by some government minister sat in Whitehall. Hence, they could be described as puppets, i.e. muppets.

 

You say that's heroic, I think it's craziness. I'm also capable of putting my point of view across without resorting to insults. I hope you understand what I meant by the word now anyway! To be fair, I agree the word has dodgy connotations and I could have inflamed less if i'd stuck with muppets but there we go.

 

 

we are asll muppets as we all have our own masters in one way or another..

 

you say it is crazy that you cant put your point across without insults...

did you expect anything different using an emotive subject and the word "muppet" no matter what context you meant it..?

[sotonjoe]

we are asll muppets as we all have our own masters in one way or another..

 

you say it is crazy that you cant put your point across without insults...

did you expect anything different using an emotive subject and the word "muppet" no matter what context you meant it..?

 

 

As I said, I agree it could have been seen as inflammatory, hence why I'm happy to explain, but I'd genuinely hope that more people were capable of reading an argument and trying to appreciate the gist of it as opposed to stampting up and down because they think a word has simply and intentionally been used in a pejorative sense.

 

Puppets would certainly have been less inflammatory though yeh. But the subect is as emotive for me as it for you.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Nonsense thread IMO .

 

This guy has nothing to do with SFC and I see no good reason for us to get involved frankly . It goes without saying plenty of non famous people get ill every day without arousing the slightest interest outside the normal reactions of their friends and family , why should John Hartson be treated any differently and where do we draw the line ?

 

This 'Big Brother' , Jade Goody type obsession with celebrity is both over-intrusive and unwelcome , this is a private matter concerning the Hartson family and we should display the common sense to treat it as such .

[Micky]

I clearly meant 'muppets' more literally than you realise, not simply in the pejorative sense.

 

A muppet is a puppet, controlled by somebody else, either by strings or by inserting a hand up said puppet's backside.

 

I think that is a pretty apt way for describing a soldier (not the backside bit). They knowingly sign up for a job which could see them sent to some hellhole with some piddly gun for protection. They have no right to say "I don't fancy that" thanks and have to do as they are told. They allow their lives to be completely dictated and controlled by some government minister sat in Whitehall. Hence, they could be described as puppets, i.e. muppets.

 

You say that's heroic, I think it's craziness. I'm also capable of putting my point of view across without resorting to insults. I hope you understand what I meant by the word now anyway! To be fair, I agree the word has dodgy connotations and I could have inflamed less if i'd stuck with puppets but there we go.

 

Ahhh I see that you have finished at the mirror and have now engaged brain. As I stated before you are entitled to your dispassionate view of the service provided by HM Forces, I have no wish to converse with you on the subject as we are obviously at opposite ends of the scale and never the twain shall meet.

 

I have at no time mentioned the word 'heroic', neither, in over 25 years service do I remember it being said too many times. Strange that, during the course of my day to day job, serving the government of the day nobody at all called me a hero.

 

Believe me you need to go and see these guys actually do thier job to appreciate it (and ultimately them) properly - not just accept the snippets that you get through the media of television.

[Ponty]

I wouldn't let Ponty catch you saying things like that :shock:

 

Remember, I only asked for dignified threads while she was alive.. You can't libel the dead, Weston.

[Block 5]

Whoa....... I'm keeping clear of this thread.

I thought it was about John Hartson.

[docker-p]

Sorry but what relevance has John Hartson to us? I'm all for being decent but singing about a player is a bit odd to say the least. I would rather we sung there is one Naomi House. if he does pass away then if football decides to have a minutes silence i will adhere to it, but singing his name is a little ridiculous.

Lets celebrate Liebmarr IMHO

I agree

[sotonjoe]

Ahhh I see that you have finished at the mirror and have now engaged brain. As I stated before you are entitled to your dispassionate view of the service provided by HM Forces, I have no wish to converse with you on the subject as we are obviously at opposite ends of the scale and never the twain shall meet.

 

I have at no time mentioned the word 'heroic', neither, in over 25 years service do I remember it being said too many times. Strange that, during the course of my day to day job, serving the government of the day nobody at all called me a hero.

 

Believe me you need to go and see these guys actually do thier job to appreciate it (and ultimately them) properly - not just accept the snippets that you get through the media of television.

 

 

Believe me, I've sat through presentations given by returning millitary personnel in which they've gone into great detail about their work, including the showing of their home video style footage of various conflicts. It doesn't change my opinions wholesale.

 

There's no chance of getting me in a warzone to see first hand what goes on! I've no intention of endangering myself as part of some morally murky conflict.

[Weston Super Saint]

Remember, I only asked for dignified threads while she was alive.. You can't libel the dead, Weston.

 

LOL.

So you didn't get on your high horse the moment she was dead?

 

Note to Ponty : The truth isn't libel

 

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=238957&postcount=113

Edited 16 July, 2009 by Weston Super Saint

[krissyboy31]

LOL.

So you didn't get on your high horse the moment she was dead?

 

Note to Ponty : The truth isn't libel

 

It depends how good (& expensive) their lawyer is.

[Ponty]

LOL.

So you didn't get on your high horse the moment she was dead?

 

Note to Ponty : The truth isn't libel

 

I didn't think you metaphorically p*ssing on her grave was in the best taste, especially before she was in it, no, but this is probably a discussion for another time.

[saintwarwick]

Believe me, I've sat through presentations given by returning millitary personnel in which they've gone into great detail about their work, including the showing of their home video style footage of various conflicts. It doesn't change my opinions wholesale.

 

There's no chance of getting me in a warzone to see first hand what goes on! I've no intention of endangering myself as part of some morally murky conflict.

 

I've read all your posts and you have no idea how the forces work except that you hate them. I wonder what you would do if we had no armed forces and the North Koreans were invading our beaches.

[Weston Super Saint]

I didn't think you metaphorically p*ssing on her grave was in the best taste, especially before she was in it, no, but this is probably a discussion for another time.

 

I've edited to put up a post of yours from after she died. I think it highlights your views on whether or not you only wanted dignified threads before she died - and therefore suggesting 'anything goes' after she died.

 

Nice to see you're still confusing me with someone else regarding the metaphorical grave ****ing though

[Polaroid Saint]

I've read all your posts and you have no idea how the forces work except that you hate them. I wonder what you would do if we had no armed forces and the North Koreans were invading our beaches.

 

Set the dogs on 'em?

[krissyboy31]

Set the dogs on 'em?

 

They'd eat them, surely? Sorry!!

[sotonjoe]

I've read all your posts and you have no idea how the forces work except that you hate them. I wonder what you would do if we had no armed forces and the North Koreans were invading our beaches.

 

I'm not sure of your point. I have enough of an idea of how they work. What do you mean 'how'? Are you tying to emphasise the harsh conditions of staring death in the face. Perhaps you'd like to to expand on what i don't know that will change my views wholeheartedly. To be honest, I think you've misread much of what has been said.

 

Equally, if you'd read what I said clearly, you'd see that 'HATE' isn't a particularly apt description. I shan't be going over it all again though.

 

And I can't remember saying we should get rid of all the armed forces either.

Edited 16 July, 2009 by sotonjoe

[Polaroid Saint]

They'd eat them, surely? Sorry!!

 

I'll set 'em up...

[forever a red and white]

seems to be me some people are more interested in promoting the image of sfc fans rather than supporting John Hartson, fair enough and nice gesture.

[Block 5]

I've read all your posts and you have no idea how the forces work except that you hate them. I wonder what you would do if we had no armed forces and the North Koreans were invading our beaches.

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/

 

Here is a link to google maps.

If you type in "Pyongyang", you will see that there is very little chance of North Koreans invading our beaches, because it is a very long way away.

 

When I typed in get directions to Pyongyang from Warwick it said "We could not calculate directions between warwick, uk and North Korea P'yongyang-si Pyongyang".

 

HTH

 

[sotonjoe]

http://maps.google.co.uk/

 

Here is a link to google maps.

If you type in "Pyongyang", you will see that there is very little chance of North Koreans invading our beaches, because it is a very long way away.

 

When I typed in get directions to Pyongyang from Warwick it said "We could not calculate directions between warwick, uk and North Korea P'yongyang-si Pyongyang".

 

HTH

 

 

In that case, perhaps it is worth considering getting rid of the armed forces then?

[Block 5]

In that case, perhaps it is worth considering getting rid of the armed forces then?

 

Only if we can get rid of the royal family, the police, the state, corporations and the church too.

 

[Polaroid Saint]

Only if we can get rid of the royal family, the police, the state, corporations and the church too.

 

 

I second this!

[sotonjoe]

I second this!

 

 

All sounds a bit wishy washy to me but beggars can't be choosers.

[Weston Super Saint]

http://maps.google.co.uk/

 

Here is a link to google maps.

If you type in "Pyongyang", you will see that there is very little chance of North Koreans invading our beaches, because it is a very long way away.

 

When I typed in get directions to Pyongyang from Warwick it said "We could not calculate directions between warwick, uk and North Korea P'yongyang-si Pyongyang".

 

HTH

 

 

Why would they want our beaches?

 

Theirs are MUCH better than ours!

[sotonjoe]

more radioactive material on ours ... simple.

[saintwarwick]

http://maps.google.co.uk/

 

Here is a link to google maps.

If you type in "Pyongyang", you will see that there is very little chance of North Koreans invading our beaches, because it is a very long way away.

 

When I typed in get directions to Pyongyang from Warwick it said "We could not calculate directions between warwick, uk and North Korea P'yongyang-si Pyongyang".

 

HTH

 

 

So is the Falklands (4,000km further) but we managed it. Also try typing in London instead of Warwick then you will get the distance and then add on 125km (distance London to Warwick), simple init

[Amesbury Saint]

Excellent suggestion, FC.

[Block 5]

So is the Falklands (4,000km further) but we managed it. Also try typing in London instead of Warwick then you will get the distance and then add on 125km (distance London to Warwick), simple init

 

 

Touche.

:cool:

[Frank's cousin]

Feck... what did I start? Jeez it was just a thought about showing us as not a bad bunch of fans who can see beyond the ends of our own noses and acknowledge that maybe we can take 30 seconds to share a bit of our luck around...

 

Suggest this is locked....

[saintwarwick]

Feck... what did I start? Jeez it was just a thought about showing us as not a bad bunch of fans who can see beyond the ends of our own noses and acknowledge that maybe we can take 30 seconds to share a bit of our luck around...

 

Suggest this is locked....

 

How many threads have you been on Frank that hasn't seriously been deviated from?

[Frank's cousin]

How many threads have you been on Frank that hasn't seriously been deviated from?

 

LOL Very true

[sotonjoe]

I wouldn't bother locking it; it sorted itself out without the need for Baj and his mates, e.g the thought police.

Edited 17 July, 2009 by sotonjoe
Typed 'VAJ' instead of 'BAJ' lol

[CB Fry]

Feck... what did I start? Jeez it was just a thought about showing us as not a bad bunch of fans who can see beyond the ends of our own noses and acknowledge that maybe we can take 30 seconds to share a bit of our luck around...

 

Suggest this is locked....

 

 

Don't worry about a thread on a forum FC. If you feel that strongly about the stadium chanting the name of a retired player with no affinity to us whatsoever, stand up and start singing tomorrow afternoon.

[Evil Monkey]

Whilst I sympathise with Hartson's situation, I wont be singing his name. He has nothing to do with Southampton football club, and therefore it isnt warented IMO.

[Daren W]

What he blue blazes is this thread about? Singing about a player who's never played for us or even been associated with us?? Yes Hartson's situation is tragic but as other people have stated, other people are seriously ill from cancer, where do you draw the line??

 

Get the announcer to say something and maybe a round of applause for the man but terrace chants? No... Not really..

 

As for the comments about the armed forces, it's funny how people only have their right of free speech because of people who lay down their life for it, can abuse it so. There's something rather cowardly about people who slag the armed forces off and yet would be the first to depend on them if their personal safety/liberty was at risk...

 

Rather tasteless if you ask me...

[Frank's cousin]

To all those you rightly point out he nothing do to with us, etc....that is kind of teh whole point... its about showing we are not just an insular bunch of inward looking fans, but respect the wider football family - we have had our gair share of **** lately as a club, and have just about come out of the otherside following a huge dose of luck - but we should not forget there are those less fortunate in the game than us we more serious stuff to deal with...

[um pahars]

To all those you rightly point out he nothing do to with us' date=' etc....that is kind of teh whole point...[b'] its about showing [/b]we are not just an insular bunch of inward looking fans, but respect the wider football family - we have had our gair share of **** lately as a club, and have just about come out of the otherside following a huge dose of luck - but we should not forget there are those less fortunate in the game than us we more serious stuff to deal with...

 

And I don't doubt for one minute that every fan on here has every sympathy and support for Hartson, it's just that I find the call for the chanting of his name rather Dianesque.

 

And the very fact that it is being pitched as showing everyone how wonderful we are sort of emphasises that point.

[Doctoroncall]

To all those you rightly point out he nothing do to with us' date=' etc....that is kind of teh whole point... its about showing we are not just an insular bunch of inward looking fans, but respect the wider football family - we have had our gair share of **** lately as a club, and have just about come out of the otherside following a huge dose of luck - but we should not forget there are those less fortunate in the game than us we more serious stuff to deal with...[/quote']

 

FC, I think you need help. You seem to have some issues to resolve if you want to be in the spotlight just for supporting Hartson because he has cancer.

[CB Fry]

To all those you rightly point out he nothing do to with us' date=' etc....that is kind of teh whole point... its about showing we are not just an insular bunch of inward looking fans, but respect the wider football family - we have had our gair share of **** lately as a club, and have just about come out of the otherside following a huge dose of luck - but we should not forget there are those less fortunate in the game than us we more serious stuff to deal with...[/quote']

 

 

Surely the "insular" thing is the assumption that no saints fan cares or sympathises/empathises with John Hartson and his family unless they "show" they care by chanting his name at a half full stadium for a pre season friendly.

 

There are lots of people "less fortunate" than John Hartson, by the way.

 

As I said up the thread. Stop going on about it here and start a chant, yourself, tomorrow. I bet you don't.

[Fan The Flames]

I have the bizzare image in my head of 25k supports signing out Good Luck John!

 

I have as well now. I wonder what the sign for Hartson is now, I know what it was when he was playing against us.

[Frank's cousin]

FC, I think you need help. You seem to have some issues to resolve if you want to be in the spotlight just for supporting Hartson because he has cancer.

 

? WTF ? missing the point really....

[Frank's cousin]

Surely the "insular" thing is the assumption that no saints fan cares or sympathises/empathises with John Hartson and his family unless they "show" they care by chanting his name at a half full stadium for a pre season friendly.

 

There are lots of people "less fortunate" than John Hartson, by the way.

 

As I said up the thread. Stop going on about it here and start a chant, yourself, tomorrow. I bet you don't.

 

It was as they say just a thought, but like so much seems to get blown out of all proportion... and what was all that boll ox about the Army? see what I mean...

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

Trouble was, Frank, that you asked people to show their class. They did.

[Doctoroncall]

? WTF ? missing the point really....

 

why? you want to been seen as having some "class" by chanting out his name in support. Why not send him an expensive get well card to show some class!