Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job.
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 Yesterdays echo said they received 500k Read it again: MARK Fry’s bill for being in charge of selling Saints could be close to half a million pounds.
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. We have a new owner worth over £2.5bn Seems pretty fcking competent to me Who cares about the other rival consortium that offered more money? Do you actually have any proof at all that they have the money? Even Marc Jackson can offer £50m for the club, doesn't mean he has any money
stevegrant Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. How did they do that?
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 if it is only 500k Id be surprised. Perhaps they will lose some of theor charges elsewhere. It would be good if Clapham came on and gave his view on the fee expected. I also believe that the administrator may also take commission form the sale of players. As I have put elsewhere a business i know of that went into administration put thier stock into auction and not only did they pay auctioneers fees but the adminisrator levied 15% as well.
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Also, the club was bought for an 'undisclosed fee', so please explain how you know : 1. How much each creditor got. 2. How much they originally should have got.
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 We have a new owner worth over £2.5bn Seems pretty fcking competent to me Who cares about the other rival consortium that offered more money? Do you actually have any proof at all that they have the money? Even Marc Jackson can offer £50m for the club, doesn't mean he has any money I agree i wont at this time agrue against the swiss getting the club. It must be taken on board though Fry got close to losing them when he awarded the exclusivity to pinnacle
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 We have a new owner worth over £2.5bn Seems pretty fcking competent to me You obviously weren't a creditor, eg a small local business owed money....nor do you have a clue what their responsibility was. Just to help...it wasn't to find a new, rich owner, for a selfish and clueless fan like you....
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 crap job??? haha yeah right, we have a loaded new owner, KD has signed a new deal, Wotte has gone and a new start all round..pretty good job imo
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 You obviously weren't a creditor, eg a small local business owed money....nor do you have a clue what their responsibility was. Just to help...it wasn't to find a new, rich owner, for a selfish and clueless fan like you.... pot and kettle
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 You obviously weren't a creditor, eg a small local business owed money....nor do you have a clue what their responsibility was. Just to help...it wasn't to find a new, rich owner, for a selfish and clueless fan like you.... See above regarding the undisclosed fee. And also, why are you blaming the administrator for the creditors losing money? Did they enter into a contract with the administrator, or with the previous incumbents who fcked the company up so badly it was unable to pay them? I'm pretty sure you haven't actually grasped the intricacies of how a business works
Chez Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 You obviously weren't a creditor, eg a small local business owed money....nor do you have a clue what their responsibility was. Just to help...it wasn't to find a new, rich owner, for a selfish and clueless fan like you.... so you therefore must know how many pennies in the pound the creditors got then. Please tell.
Wes Tender Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. For once I totally agree with you. My opinion of Administrators now has them top of my league of despised professions, ahead of Traffic Wardens, Estate Agents and Politicians. Yes, of course I'm thankful that they managed to get us bought by the dream candidate, but I agree that it seemingly took much longer than it needed to and that the monstrous daily rate they charge is in itself a disincentive to finalise quickly. This profession falls into the category of a license to print money. For many smaller businesses, the fees must also be a disincentive for a buyer, as they must often be totally out of proportion with the company's worth.
John B Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 crap job??? haha yeah right, we have a loaded new owner, KD has signed a new deal, Wotte has gone and a new start all round..pretty good job imo Thats not the same as doing a crap job for the creditors
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. I certainly agree Fry has some questions he needs answering. In last night's Echo Cortese said even as Pinnacle was given exclusivity " I told him (Liebherr) there was a bit of evidence that the group might not be in a position to complete and we became convinced it was the case......." He also says later in the article "we felt a bit misled" . These are points Fry should clear up - in those 4 weeks while we waited for Pinnacle to sign off the deal Begbies pocketed nearly a quarter of a million.
dubai_phil Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 An average Management Consultant will charge 1k a day. BT had two senior officers (Fry & Talyor) assigned to this project, others have intimated the fees were around 10k a day. 98 days at 10 per day (5k per officer) is highly likely, which is 980k. Then they are based in a London Office and I believe Fry is located in Southend, so there will have been expenses, hotel stays, meal allowances, travel and mileage costs, mobile phone calls, overtime. The figure GM indicates is very plausible and is one of the key reasons that the entire process is a conflict of interest. Get the best deal for the creditors versus do it quickly and cheaply.
Weston Super Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 I agree i wont at this time agrue against the swiss getting the club. It must be taken on board though Fry got close to losing them when he awarded the exclusivity to pinnacle Award exclusivity to Pinnacle = [circa] £500k = wages can be paid [al be it a week or so late]. Don't award exclusivity to Pinnacle = no money = no wages can be paid = winding up order put on club. Pretty tough choices really, but on balance I'd say he chose the right option wouldn't you agree.
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 How did they do that?By charging three times more than they should have, by wasting their time with people like Pinnacle, despite having no evidence of funds and taking Crouch's million for fees rather than the salary bill they claimed it was for. The waste of time meant that we were forced to sell our two best players and at the end of the day, they had a higher offer from another consortium with money on deposit. Steve, they did a cr @p job and if I was a creditor, I would be very p! $$ed off. I assume the bucket collectors must be pleased with what happened to the donations Fry was begging for. F***ing bullsh !tting wide-boy...
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 crap job??? haha yeah right, we have a loaded new owner, KD has signed a new deal, Wotte has gone and a new start all round..pretty good job imo Mike but Fry didnt find the buyer.He just dealt with them when they came forward and nearly messed that up IMO by preferring Pinnacle. It is the new people who seem to be proper businessmen who have made the other calls. Dont confuse Fry with being a star in all this. What happened about the -10 he said he was going to launch an appeal about as well?
Block 18 Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 All around Southampton there is an air jubilation, we are now listed as the fourth richest club in the FL, you would expect that just for a few days everyone would be happy. But oh no there is always one who seems to thrive on doom and gloom. FFS GM get out more, find your self a good woman and get a life
trousers Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 These are points Fry should clear up I agree, but we all know that the 'events' of the last 6 months will be swept under the carpet, just like they were when our share price was artifically hiked in May 2007 by supposedly 'bogus' interest from Paul Allen. They are all part of the same 'old boys network' and the truth will never be aired. IMHO of course
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Award exclusivity to Pinnacle = [circa] £500k = wages can be paid [al be it a week or so late]. Don't award exclusivity to Pinnacle = no money = no wages can be paid = winding up order put on club. Pretty tough choices really, but on balance I'd say he chose the right option wouldn't you agree.No, because the Swiss were almost ready to commit, he could have also made playersales. He risked losing the Swiss who would rightly say,'we've spent enough on this lets pack up and Pinnacle are there' Can you not remember at the time when there were reports of the Swiss being very unhappy that he had chosen Pinnacle not them.
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 Award exclusivity to Pinnacle = [circa] £500k = wages can be paid [al be it a week or so late]. Don't award exclusivity to Pinnacle = no money = no wages can be paid = winding up order put on club. Pretty tough choices really, but on balance I'd say he chose the right option wouldn't you agree. Spout ****** and spread fear to gullible losers like you and Crouch, to grab money for a wage bill that was paid by the sale of two players in the end, and trouser the cash, more like....
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Thats not the same as doing a crap job for the creditors no, granted but it could have been alot worse. If we had been liquidated they would have received far less
CB Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 The fees being charged by the Administrators seem about right given what the Insolvency profession tend to charge. This was a particularly complex deal, so I don't think we were ripped off by Fry - any administrator would have charged the same. The issue is with the profession as a whole and how they can justify charging huge sums, especially for clerical work (I have seen £100ph + in the past). Unfortunately the way the law is currently written they can pretty much do what they want. In fact Fry should be commended for leaving something in the pot for the creditors. A more skilled administrator would have found a way to absorb a much greater portion of the pie.
alpine_saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Can someone explain to me what Misselbrook's problem is now ? It's Aviva's/Barclays's/Hr. Liebherr's money, and they've decided to pay it up for services rendered. And people accuse me of looking for the next thing to moan about. I havent seen a single expression of celebration from Guided Missile that the club has been saved. Oh, and I am sure Mr. Fry will be extremely happy to see his services being compared to one of the most abhorrent crimes one human can committ to another.
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Mike but Fry didnt find the buyer.He just dealt with them when they came forward and nearly messed that up IMO by preferring Pinnacle. It is the new people who seem to be proper businessmen who have made the other calls. Dont confuse Fry with being a star in all this. What happened about the -10 he said he was going to launch an appeal about as well? ok Nick granted he didnt go seeking the buyer but we dont know what has gone on behind closed doors, yes its easy to point the finger at Fry but he didnt create the mess, thats where the blame firmly lies and who the creditors should be complaining to
Toadhall Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Can someone explain to me what Misselbrook's problem is now ? It's Aviva's/Barclays's/Hr. Liebherr's money, and they've decided to pay it up for services rendered. And people accuse me of looking for the next thing to moan about. I havent seen a single expression of celebration from Guided Missile that the club has been saved. I have no idea - perhaps he's having a bad day!!
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Can someone explain to me what Misselbrook's problem is now ? It's Aviva's/Barclays's/Hr. Liebherr's money, and they've decided to pay it up for services rendered. And people accuse me of looking for the next thing to moan about. I havent seen a single expression of celebration from Guided Missile that the club has been saved. can 19C be added to that list?
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 In fact Fry should be commended for leaving something in the pot for the creditors. A more skilled administrator would have found a way to absorb a much greater portion of the pie. What you are saying is that it was good that he only raped the creditors, when he could have murdered them as well...
dubai_phil Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 All around Southampton there is an air jubilation, we are now listed as the fourth richest club in the FL, you would expect that just for a few days everyone would be happy. But oh no there is always one who seems to thrive on doom and gloom. FFS GM get out more, find your self a good woman and get a life Everybody IS happy. However even our new CEO has expressed concern at the course of events, which could have led to us missing the boat, and certainly seem to have led to us losing two (or possibly 3) players. We can argue whether they would have been any good in L1, we can argue whether replacements would be better, but did Fry get sell-on clauses? Did his actions affect our future? Questions that Cortesa is concerned about and which Fry has stated he will talk about. We damn near lost the lottery ticket, after many years it seems our luck changed which is great, but wow could have been done 6 weeks ago
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 And people accuse me of looking for the next thing to moan about. I havent seen a single expression of celebration from Guided Missile that the club has been saved. I'll be celebrating by purchasing my two season tickets today, while you're knocking one off, over your keyboard... (sh !t, why did I take you off ignore...)
merrimd Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Just a quick question from someone who has no idea about these things. Would the price (i.e. £12.5m) not include the Administrators fees (i.e. 11mill for the creditors, 1.5 mill for BT)? Therefore, does it matter what they got paid as SLH did not pay it?
thesaint sfc Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Just because they offered more surely doesn't mean they had more? Our owner has 2.5 billion to his name. I don't think we could ask for anyone more wealthy!
CB Saint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 I was being sacastic. I do not have any love for the Insolvency Profession as a whole, I just don't think that Fry is personally to Blame - he acted as any administrator would in these circumstances. I have seen much worse and the overall outcome for the club is positive.
notnowcato Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Please don't associate myself with the completely over the top nonsense on this thread but in the same breath I know that not many things in life are squeeky clean... nice to see Richard Fry back amongst his fellow partners on the B-T website.
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 ok Nick granted he didnt go seeking the buyer but we dont know what has gone on behind closed doors, yes its easy to point the finger at Fry but he didnt create the mess, thats where the blame firmly lies and who the creditors should be complaining to I agree didnt cause the mess, but the thread is about his companies fees and actions. I doubt Fry will be lauded by the trade and I dont expect his picture to be on the front cover of Administrator Weekly. he got damned close to leaving us with MJ or Salz and their firesale purchase which would not be quite the same as we have now.
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Please don't associate myself with the completely over the top nonsense on this thread but in the same breath I know that not many things in life are squeeky clean... nice to see Richard Fry back amongst his fellow partners on the B-T website. Lol
Patrick Bateman Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. Begbies Traynor along with Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc are all in the past now. We have a new era - let's move on eh and talk about interesting things like players, oh and beer!;-)
Dog Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Good news for the partners of Begbies Traynor. Their revenues have risen by 29% to £62.1 million in the year ending April 2009, The Times reports today. That figure doesn't include the £1.5M they have taken from Southampton Leisure Holdings plc, three times the estimated cost of the administration. That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. Regular readers of my posts will recall what I think of this profession and they haven't failed to live up to my opinion. Snatched £1M more than they should have from the creditors while doing a cr @p job. Beer money. :drinkers:
JustMike Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 I agree didnt cause the mess, but the thread is about his companies fees and actions. I doubt Fry will be lauded by the trade and I dont expect his picture to be on the front cover of Administrator Weekly. he got damned close to leaving us with MJ or Salz and their firesale purchase which would not be quite the same as we have now. would any other admin guy have done anything different?
John B Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Begbies Traynor along with Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc are all in the past now. We have a new era - let's move on eh and talk about interesting things like players, oh and beer!;-) If you want beer go to a pub
GenevaSaint Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 That figure must be in inverse relation to their competence. They wasted weeks with a total bunch of time wasters in Pinnacle and at the end, managed to p!$$ off a rival consortium who had offered MORE than Liebherr. At the last minutes as far as I'm aware. The creditors were obviously happy with the settlement and maybe they said for 500K more lets go with Liebherr as we know he's ready to proceed. Who knows! We will probably never find out. I certainly think they got alot of money for the service provided, but there you go that's business GM as well you know. On the bright side these bastards will have a hard time when the recovery comes :-) If we're bleating on about money spent for very little service how much did Keith Harris get from us for their "services"?
Guided Missile Posted 10 July, 2009 Author Posted 10 July, 2009 Begbies Traynor along with Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc are all in the past now. We have a new era - let's move on eh and talk about interesting things like players, oh and beer!;-) Let's just call it a pre-season, parting shot, Paddy...
OldNick Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 would any other admin guy have done anything different? who knows? IMHO If there was a set fee i am fairly certain Pinnacle would never have got to exclusivity
Patrick Bateman Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 Let's just call it a pre-season, parting shot, Paddy... Fair enough, I'll give you that!
saintfully Posted 10 July, 2009 Posted 10 July, 2009 'Business not conducted in open, fair and transparent manner' shock!!! OMG, did someone try and maximise their own benefit???
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