Wotte has parted company with Saints

[Red and White Army]

And quite frankly, when judged on the results during the last year, then there was nothing from a footballing perspective that would have saved his bacon.

 

Didn't he have a better points/game ratio than your hero Pearson?

[rudi-skacel]

lets just hope we dont get christian gross,cos that would be a disaster.

[Dark Munster]

I do not disagree that the decision was right but the way it was done leaves a sour taste. The man was clearly convinced that he had a job, based presumably on things that were said to him during meetings, and then he is fired out of the blue. Sure he has his year's salary but surely a more honest approach would have been to say "We cannot guarantee anything but we will make sure you are looked after financially for holding the fort"

 

What other way was there? Fired more slowly? Gardening leave? :cool:

 

ML only took over yesterday, so all they can say is "Sorry, we're letting you go, to look for a better manager. Thanks for holding the fort, here's one year's pay. Goodbye, and good luck in Egypt."

[Plumstead_Saint]

Didn't he have a better points/game ratio than your hero Pearson?

No.

Far more importantly, Pearson kept us up, despite having less than half a season in the job. Wotte took us down, despite having been involved with the team since pre-season. I know - I saw him at Basingstoke, and Winchester. He had also been to St Mary's and watched matches while Pearson was still manager.

 

Glad he is gone. Good decision.

Would you bleeding hearts have rather waited until 10 games into the new season when we are still bottom to see him go?

[Red and White Army]

No.

 

Yes, he did. You are wrong.

 

Would you bleeding hearts have rather waited until 10 games into the new season when we are still bottom to see him go?

 

I'm not too bothered about Wotte leaving - I would have liked to see him get some reward for staying over the summer.... but from a "club first" point of view I think a new manager is more preferable. I would love to see WGS back.

 

I just object to people like dumb pahars having double standards and slagging Wotte off while hero-worshipping Pearson. It shows moral and intellectual weakness to be honest.

[St_Tel49]

What other way was there? Fired more slowly? Gardening leave? :cool:

 

ML only took over yesterday, so all they can say is "Sorry, we're letting you go, to look for a better manager. Thanks for holding the fort, here's one year's pay. Goodbye, and good luck in Egypt."

Do you suppose for a minute that the Swiss reps only spoke to him AFTER they took over. He had spoken to them in the interim and was clearly under the impression that he was being kept on. Now who gave him that impression? And BTW I have already indicated what I thought was a more humane approach and it did not involve any of your "suggestions"

[St Marco]

Yes, he did. You are wrong.

 

 

 

I'm not too bothered about Wotte leaving - I would have liked to see him get some reward for staying over the summer.... but from a "club first" point of view I think a new manager is more preferable. I would love to see WGS back.

 

I just object to people like dumb pahars having double standards and slagging Wotte off while hero-worshipping Pearson. It shows moral and intellectual weakness to be honest.

 

Pearson = Played 13 - Points = 16 = 1.23 points per game

Wotte = Played 23 - Points = 23 = 1 point per game

 

At Wotte's 13 game mark he was 1 point behind Pearson.

Think it needs to be remembered Pearson did not have the luxuary to choose who he wanted to play due to people being injured and players out on loan. He came in at the end of the season and if you look at the 13 games prior to Perason we got just 7 points, he came in and increased our points ratio by over 100%.

Wotte was here from the start of the season and not only was allowed to play whoever he wanted he got players back from loans and players came in on loans etc. Wotte had half a season to save the club and with his ratio even for the full season we would of still be relegated. Where as if Pearson's ratio had been used last season we would of finished 15th.

 

As others have mentioned i do not buy the whole Wotte has done great to stay around. The guy was under contract but yet still lined up a job in Egypt. He was out of contract for under a week and chose to stay himself to see what would happen. In that week he was given a new 1 year contract and will now get that paid off. The guy waited around to see what would happen because his offeres were not as good as here, numerous times he mentioned he would leave, it is reported the players did not respect him, if you are under contract then you are contracted to do that job, does it make me loyal because im doing the job im paid to do? What was he going to do sit at home and void his contract?

To me people have got it mixed up, the guy had more then enough time and had players who should have kept us up, his decsions on the field lead to us going down, it was not unluckyness and it was not unfair, we got what we deserved. If the admin team had taken over a few weeks before they did he would of been fired for his performances and everyone would of expected it. The fact only 19% in the poll wanted to keep him longterm shows that 8 out of 10 people did not see Wotte as the future of Southampton football club.

[saints triumph]

Right decision. Good luck

[um pahars]

Didn't he have a better points/game ratio than your hero Pearson?

 

No he didn't.

 

Here's the facts:

 

Pearson

 

P 13 W 3 D 7 L 3 = 16 points from 13 games = 1.23 points per game

 

OR if you include Plymouth

 

P 14 W 3 D 7 L 4 = 16 points from 14 games = 1.14 points per game

 

 

Wotte

 

P 18 W 4 D 7 L 7 = 19 points from 18 games = 1.06 points per game

 

 

Yes, he did. You are wrong.

 

As proved above he did not.

 

Now if you've got a different set of record books or a special calculator that awards points for other reasons than winning or drawing then feel free to share it with us all.:rolleyes:

 

I just object to people like dumb pahars having double standards and slagging Wotte off while hero-worshipping Pearson. It shows moral and intellectual weakness to be honest.

 

Doulble standards, LMFAO, what a dinny you are.

 

I have never hero worshipped Pearson, just corrected the many dinlo's (yourself included) who try and massage the facts for some reason.

 

He was never here long enough to prove himself one way or the other, but:

 

a) Ultimatley he did what he had to, and

 

b) Compared to what followed (particularly Poortvliet), he was arguably better.

 

And if we're talking about dumb, double standards and intellectual weakness, then pray tell how you can base your entire argument on a Points Per Game ratio which has no basis in fact.

 

HTH

[um pahars]

For one thing he was interviewed by the BBC this morning and he was clearly under the impression that he was remaining as manager for the next 12 months, yet only a couple of hours later, he's out on his ear.

 

But I think you'll find that no one from the new group gave him any inkling one way or the other as to whether he was staying or going, and they were the only ones with any say in the situation.

 

I think Wotte made a very big assumption that he was staying and was the one giving the press briefings regarding this. The new guys were non commital with regards his future.

 

they should have let him know yesterday that he was not to be taking the club forward.

 

They appear to have let him know at the earliest opportunity and I fail to see how they could have told him any earlier.

[Mole]

Jeez, i missed this thread.

 

Thank god he's gone. I respect him for his loyalty but let's be real - he was a crock of sh!te.

[thorpie the sinner]

I think Wotte was trying to convince himself he was staying! Not surprised, he was a major part of the disaster of last season and he was at the helm when we got relegated!

[red&white56]

Can't help thinking this is potentially a bad thing for a number of reasons:

 

1) new season is nearly upon us and we've transferred one set of uncertainties for another

2) After Wotte has acted with real dignity this appears, at first glance, to be a real stab in the back

 

I agree - he stayed on when many of us might have expected him to jump ship. As there doesn't appear to be somebody already lined up it doesn't bode well for next season.

[saintjay77]

But I think you'll find that no one from the new group gave him any inkling one way or the other as to whether he was staying or going, and they were the only ones with any say in the situation.

 

I think Wotte made a very big assumption that he was staying and was the one giving the press briefings regarding this. The new guys were non commital with regards his future.

 

 

 

They appear to have let him know at the earliest opportunity and I fail to see how they could have told him any earlier.

 

I cant understand how he would have made that assumption though. IMO they must have gave him some kind of indication of there plans for the coming season and that in turn must have led him to believe he was being kept in the loop because they wanted him to carry out those plans. So maybe indirectly he believed he was there for longer than a few hours?

 

Agree with the speed that they told him though. He may feel like he was strung along to get through the worst bit but as soon as they could make a decision they did and didnt leave him hanging.

[saintjay77]

All this comparing him to Pearson lark is old hat and both are now gone. It would be nice if we can just look forward now but if you lot are going to compare can you at least include Pearsons game in charge against Plym please?

 

You might not like it but his CV will show he took charge of 14 games for the saints. At least Um put both stats down to show the differences.

 

Actually Um, do you know what Wottes stats were after the 14 games? Im thinking Pearsons stats were still slightly better but it should give a fairer comparrison even though there were many more factors that could be taken in consideration.

[Mole]

I agree - he stayed on when many of us might have expected him to jump ship. As there doesn't appear to be somebody already lined up it doesn't bode well for next season.

 

There's a manager about to be appointed. If you listen to Andy Oldknows interview on saintstv he states that they've been making plans for over a month. We're being run by a top top professional - Nicola Cortese does not come cheap as he's the creme de la creme of high flyers!

[Capel Saint]

Bold decision by the new owner to start a fresh with a new manager and better to do it now rather than part way through a season.

 

Not sorry to see him go. Was financially restricted with who he could buy but clearly showed he did not have the tactical nous when Plan A didn't work.

 

At least for Wotte he will get his 12 month contract paid up and will no doubt find another job soon.

 

Just hope the new owner has someone in mind to take over sooner rather than later. Curbishley, WGS or Tisdale would be good options IMHO. Only problem is I doubt Curbishley would drop down to manage a team in League 1. Mind you, in football, anything could happen.

[LaptopSaint]

I agree - he stayed on when many of us might have expected him to jump ship. As there doesn't appear to be somebody already lined up it doesn't bode well for next season.

 

No he stayed on because it's arguably the best job he's ever going to have in football. Respect for the way he's handled himself over the last few weeks, but that doesn't make him a good manager. The new owners have bigger better plans.

[OldNick]

No he didn't.

 

Here's the facts:

 

Pearson

 

P 13 W 3 D 7 L 3 = 16 points from 13 games = 1.23 points per game

 

OR if you include Plymouth

 

P 14 W 3 D 7 L 4 = 16 points from 14 games = 1.14 points per game

 

 

Wotte

 

P 18 W 4 D 7 L 7 = 19 points from 18 games = 1.06 points per game

 

 

 

 

As proved above he did not.

 

Now if you've got a different set of record books or a special calculator that awards points for other reasons than winning or drawing then feel free to share it with us all.:rolleyes:

 

 

 

Doulble standards, LMFAO, what a dinny you are.

 

I have never hero worshipped Pearson, just corrected the many dinlo's (yourself included) who try and massage the facts for some reason.

 

He was never here long enough to prove himself one way or the other, but:

 

a) Ultimatley he did what he had to, and

 

b) Compared to what followed (particularly Poortvliet), he was arguably better.

 

And if we're talking about dumb, double standards and intellectual weakness, then pray tell how you can base your entire argument on a Points Per Game ratio which has no basis in fact.

 

HTH

Um what was the points total after 13 games by Wotte. I assume that the Plymouth game was not in NP's stats.

Personally I am happy for MW to be gone, only morally do i feel bad. I felt more upset when NP went, not because I thought he was great but the fans were behind him

[SaintRobbie]

Um what was the points total after 13 games by Wotte. I assume that the Plymouth game was not in NP's stats.

Personally I am happy for MW to be gone, only morally do i feel bad. I felt more upset when NP went, not because I thought he was great but the fans were behind him

 

Good point there Nick. Let's get some perspective, so people are acting like we've lost the People's Princess!! Wotte was poor, so Wotte was removed.

[dubai_phil]

There is a new dawn.

 

The comparison of NP's results versus Wotte/JP is in reality a hang over from he old days of having nothing but mundaneness to hope for.

 

NP's results ON THEIR own were not great, and, remember it was the last game of the season when we stayed up, we didn't stay up in a blend of miracle football.

 

So, the comparisons are history now, they belong to "The DARK AGES" when any one glimmer of hope was lost into a morass of political infighting.

 

Chris Nicholl was a good manager for us, he left and wasn't a good manager. The world is full of these types of stories. There is now only ONE thing to worry about

 

Will our new man be able to hit the ground running and actually get OUR SQUAD playing WINNING FOOTBALL this season?

[trousers]

Trousers. Wotte's been sacked. I am now giving you an electronic hug and a non-homosexual kiss in celebration for talking sense over the last 48 hours.

 

Why thank you kind Sir. A big shiny cow bell wouldn't go amiss either

[SaintRobbie]

Why thank you kind Sir. A big shiny cow bell wouldn't go amiss either

 

errrr... you can wait until after the managerial announcement.

[Petersfield Saint]

Thanks MW - unfortunately loyalty has cost the club a lot in the past - Messrs Grey and Wigley spring to mind - so it's 'not personal' as our Michael Corleone lookalike CE might say. Ignore the spiteful, nasty comments above - there can be nothing lower than kicking someone who has just lost their livelihood - just take note that the vast majority of fans respect the dignity and effort that you have shown. Good luck for the future.

 

What he said. Sorry Mark, you weren't the right man for the job but thanks for sticking around and trying your best (unlike at least a couple of managers in our recent past); good luck for the future.

[Petersfield Saint]

Bit of a shame in so much as Wotte could have been an excellent Academy manager/executive... I'd hate to lose his experience...

 

I've got a dream list of Strachan or Keegan

 

and a realistic list of Coppel or Hoddle

 

I Like your thinking!

 

Strachan/Keegan - I will cream myself!!

Coppell/Hoddle - I will almost cream myself!!

 

[SaintRobbie]

I Like your thinking!

 

Strachan/Keegan - I will cream myself!!

Coppell/Hoddle - I will almost cream myself!!

 

 

The Sun says... Strachan/Coppell

[Joensuu]

Loyalty eh... that much valued commodity

Loyalty often has an inverse relationship with competence (as displayed by both club and staff).

A less competent member of staff will often display a large amount of loyalty. A more competent member of staff will know they can find work elsewhere, and won't necessarily show loyalty (if they do it is rare and should be rewarded (cf. MLT)).

A less competent organisation will often reward loyalty over competence (cf. Newcastle appointing Shearer as manager). A more competent organisation will judge staff by their competence (loyalty is a secondary consideration).

[NB, no offence Mark, you have done yourself proud with your fight against the odds here. All the best with your next position]

[trousers]

Loyalty eh... that much valued commodity

 

Loyalty often has an inverse relationship with competence (as displayed by both club and staff).

 

A less competent member of staff will often display a large amount of loyalty. A more competent member of staff will know they can find work elsewhere, and won't necessarily show loyalty (if they do it is rare and should be rewarded (cf. MLT)).

 

A less competent organisation will often reward loyalty over competence (cf. Newcastle appointing Shearer as manager). A more competent organisation will judge staff by their competence (loyalty is a secondary consideration).

 

[NB, no offence Mark, you have done yourself proud with your fight against the odds here. All the best with your next position]

 

+1

 

Logic Central meets SWF !

[the saint in winchester]

I must admit I do feel a little sorry for him, but as he still had a year's contract he will get paid off.

 

That was my thought too. I feel sorry for the guy; he has been professional through a tough time. He signed a 12 month contract so someone must have approved the offer to him. Presumably he gets a payoff from that. Just seems odd that he's embraced one day and the next he's pushed away.

 

On whether I'm happy, depends who comes in. If it's Mourinho, woo-hoo I'm happy. If it some failed has-been, no I'm despondent.

 

Can't guess who they have in mind. If anyone? Maybe now a blank page and see who applies.

[Petersfield Saint]

The Sun says... Strachan/Coppell

 

Creaming territory!!

[influx]

And KD has just signed a 3 year deal! What a day!!!

[hughieslastminutegoal]

As a footballing decsion I think it is corrrect, morally???

 

 

He's been here just a year and gets a year's termination of contract compensation. I wish the same applied in my job!

[SaintRobbie]

Does this have to be a sticky now mods? I'd have thought KD showing true loyalty and turning down a move to the Premiership for Saints warrants more discussion and deserves sticky status.

[Wes Tender]

 

I just object to people like dumb pahars having double standards and slagging Wotte off while hero-worshipping Pearson. It shows moral and intellectual weakness to be honest.

 

Says the towering intellect and morally unimpeachable Red and White Army.

[rallyboy]

just seen Wotte interviewed on the way out of the club, came across really well, wished the club luck and finished with a good gag.

He couldn't manage a bunch of misfits but a promising cabaret career awaits.

 

Good decision to get a new man in, but good luck to him.

[graymalkin33]

I thought it was a great interview and a nice car!

I wish him all the best.

I liked his quip about the next manager probably not being dutch

[um pahars]

Says the towering intellect and morally unimpeachable Red and White Army.

 

Let's just say I'm not holding my breath for a reply regarding the fact that once agin he appears to be talking out of his Arris:D

 

All mouth and bolshy when putting his point across, and then all shy and retiring once he's been shown up to be a dinlo.

[Wes Tender]

Let's just say I'm not holding my breath for a reply regarding the fact that once agin he appears to be talking out of his Arris:D

 

All mouth and bolshy when putting his point across, and then all shy and retiring once he's been shown up to be a dinlo.

 

When all's said and done, Pearson has actually demonstrated an ability to keep this club from relegation and then to get another club promoted from the 3rd division. Personally, I wouldn't be that upset if we appointed him, giving him the similar sized chequebook allowance and let him get on with it, as his track record in the management of a third division club of equal stature and size to ours is currently the best most recent one and we actually have a wealthier owner than Mad Mandaric for a change.

[um pahars]

When all's said and done, Pearson has actually demonstrated an ability to keep this club from relegation and then to get another club promoted from the 3rd division. Personally, I wouldn't be that upset if we appointed him, giving him the similar sized chequebook allowance and let him get on with it, as his track record in the management of a third division club of equal stature and size to ours is currently the best most recent one and we actually have a wealthier owner than Mad Mandaric for a change.

 

Of course the proof of the pudding etc etc etc will be who we get in, but I have to say I think we're a relatively appealing option for any rospective managers out there.

 

A bit of a sleeping giant (relatively speaking of course), good set up, decent facilities, some promising youngsters and someone who appears to be willing to splash some cash.

 

Obviously not up there with some jobs, but I reckon it's a fairly reasonable proposition. I don't think we'd get Pearson mind and probably wouldn't want him either (my sights are even higher than him!!!!).

[Webby]

I noticed Wotte kinda joked that it would be Gus Hiddink, but then said "but no, he's dutch", so maybe that was a hint that it will be a english manager, or british at least

[Saint Martini]

I think Wotte may be done with being professional (or he's being screwed by the new management). In the Dutch media he is reported as saying that Saints refused him permission to talk to Al Ismaily because they wanted to keep him to his contract. Now, I don't mind him going, I never really liked him anyway but if this is true then he has been screwed (and we've been rather stupid since it would have saved us a payment for ending his contract). On the other hand, he might be talking ******.

[SaintRobbie]

I think Wotte may be done with being professional (or he's being screwed by the new management). In the Dutch media he is reported as saying that Saints refused him permission to talk to Al Ismaily because they wanted to keep him to his contract. Now, I don't mind him going, I never really liked him anyway but if this is true then he has been screwed (and we've been rather stupid since it would have saved us a payment for ending his contract). On the other hand, he might be talking ******.

 

Oh look.. Wotte's true colours emerge. Didnt say that to SSN... I wonder why? Loyalty? lol... yeah right. Bye.