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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Thanks but the way I read it Pompey have not met the criteria for an insolvency event because they have not yet been issued a Winding Up Order although come Feb 20 this may change because unless they have a buyer they will either be liquidiated or put into VA. only 26 more days to go..........tick tock

 

Some would argue that they have already had an insolvency event by virtue of the 'fact' that CSI and PFC2010 have been acting as one economic entity to all intents and purposes (as has been laid bare by the 'coincidence' of PFC's finances going down the pan the second that the CSI plug was pulled)

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

Question.....

 

The ultimate aim of a company whose business is the administering of other companies in financial difficulty is to make a profit for their own company.

 

So, AA's job is to help UHY Hacker make a profit.

 

As such, what is the ideal profit making scenario for an administrator?

 

(a) to drag things out as long as possible in order to build up the biggest fee possible

 

Or

 

(b) to get the job done as quickly as possible, take your cut and move onto the next one

 

It just seems like one of those perverse industries where there is (apparently) an incentive to do things as inefficiently as you can in order to make the most profit.

 

Yours in curiosity....

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
The WUP won't count as an insolvency event, because it is only a petition.

 

Otherwise I could create a ficticious invoice, not get it paid by PFC, then apply for a WUP, only for the court to throw out my petition.

 

Actually, come to think about it......

 

In Pompey's case that 'scam' wouldn't need a fictitious invoice to work..,

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

A couple of things strike me having read the thread this morning:

 

The parachute payments 'cover' the CVA in value terms but that's a world away from being ringfenced for the CVA.

I agree with that. If the creditors covered by the CVA were "football creditors" then they could receive preference under the league rules. But the aren't. Normal insolvency rules will apply, and secured creditors still take priority over unsecured creditors. The creditors covered by the CVA are unsecured creditors. So as I see it whoever owns the club at the time can do what they want with the money, while remembering that there is a legally-binding obligation to make payments to Baker Tilley to meet the CVA. And if the club is liquidated, secured creditors will take priority over unsecured creditors.

 

As an aside, the PL rule book helpfully posted by Chalet makes interesting reading. I interpret rule C66 [p.97] as saying that if they are liquidated further parachute payments cease and stay with the PL for re-distribution:

 

66. Any distribution to a Relegated Club under the provisions of Rules C.36, C.38 or C.40 may be deferred if, on or before the date of the distribution, the Relegated Club has been given notice under article 4.5 of the articles of association of the Football League which has been suspended. Upon such notice being withdrawn the deferred distribution shall be paid but if in consequence of the notice the club to which it was due ceases to be a member of the Football League its amount shall be added to the next distribution made in accordance with these Rules.

As to whether they can buy or sell the club or players now the WUP (note the difference between a WUP and a Winding Up Order), legally as I see it they can carry on and do what they want. But if they sell any assets now, after the WUP, and that transaction unfairly prejudices any creditor or class of creditors, or unfairly enriches any creditor or class, that transaction can be reversed. So they can sell anything now, but the proceeds of any sale must be distributed among the creditors in line with the insolvency rules.

 

And in respect of any transfer embargo, they are now under one, but that doesn't prevent them from trading. The rules just say that they can't execute any transactions without the specific approval of the League. In practical terms I guess that they will get approval to sell without too much dificulty, but will struggle to get permission to buy anybody.

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sussexsaint

sussexsaint

Posted
Posted

1.6m no longer enough Phil ;) at least 1.8

 

Inetresting reading all this- from the bbc

 

"What is a winding-up petition?

 

This is when the banks get involved and start freezing bank accounts for their own protection and the protection of the creditors. Then there will be a hearing."

 

Is this why they want cash through the tills for tickets now?

 

 

Also - I would like a 'liquidation hammer' they sound very cool.

 

I still feel that the parachute payments wil somehow grease the shuddering wheels of this machine, don't know how but I do.

 

Mind you it wouldn't surprise me if they handed a wedge to the club the club didn't say ' ooh we'll buy some players then'

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

I'm fed up hearing about the potential forthcoming 'abuse' of the parachute payments scheme. It can't be right that these payments effectively encourage clubs to mismanage their finances.

 

I'm off to do some research on the rules governing misappropriation of said funds.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

As I understand it If thjey are given an advance on tehir final 16mil (2 x 8m ) parachute payments that were 'ringfenced' for the previous CVA of approx 17mil...(all no secured creditors), and this money is used now to pay the currrent scureed footballing creditors + teh first installmet of teh CVA - they are for now, home and dry.... however this then leaves them witha potential hole in servicing the reaminder of the CVA when its due - which if they fail to do will result in a BIG points deduction... however, if granted an advance on the final parachute payments, I guess there is nothing to stop them using some of this to buy in more players.... as we have seen them do time and time again - buy in more pay bigger wages whilst owing unsecureed creditors 17mil + the charities etc... on the hope they might get promoted and its all forgotten.... who knows... but if they are allowed an advance and it does not ALL go to meet the CVA... and nothing happens it would really highlight all that is wrong with their rotten club, the FL and FA....

 

...Trouble is, football is so emotive, so ingrained in fans culture that most neutral fans 'want to help' because they know their own clubs might need it too one day, becasue of so much debt in the pursuit of glory - and teh media reflect this as well with 'poor, plucky pompey' stories - why tehy cant even bring tehmselves to fully investigate dodgy things - remember Tom Bowers book? had a whole chapter on Redknapp asking some very serious questions - expected the media to be all over it... but there is simply not the appettite for it within the game..too much money, too much greed and built on debts - thanks a bunch Murdoch you ....

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sussexsaint

sussexsaint

Posted
Posted
I'm confused, doesn't take much, if they have 'several' interested parties then how come JoCa was the preffered bidder? Makes the others look bad :lol:

 

Yeah thats what I kep coming back to , all this smoke and mirrors about how is was just a front when clearly he was the one and only :lol:

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted (edited)
But I thought 'newco' took on 'oldco''s liability so that 'oldco' could be folded and it's accounts forensically disassembled. ( Or am I being stupid ? )

Newco took on a linked but separate liability to oldco to enable oldco to discharge it's own liability under the CVA. But the newco liability to oldco is a commercial agreement between 2 consenting Parties, it doesn't have the same weight as a CVA.

 

The consequence of oldco failing to meet the CVA is immediate liquidation (of oldco - which is already in liquidation anyway, not newco).

 

The consequence of newco failing to meet it's obligation to oldco is either renegotiation of the payment terms (I think there's some scope to do that), or alternatively oldco (Baker Tilley) will, come April, be in exactly the same position as HMRC are in now, and can issue a WUP.

Edited by hutch
clarity
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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted

My prediction :

 

The DCFSBs will avoid the WUP - I reckon the FL will advance them the parachute payments.

 

Everything will be rosie until April when the first [sic] CVA payment is due. Don't worry about that, AA will just change the timescales again and they won't have to pay any money for another 12 months - and he still won't have broken any rules as the numpties agreed to it in the first place!

 

They'll then have some more 'sticky' patches over the summer when wages are due, but the FL will give them the remainder of the parachute payments - they'll then spunk the lot on more players and high wages.

 

It'll get interesting around this time next year when they have no parachute payments left to spend, and the wages will be due for payment - forget about the CVA as it's irrelevant. AA will just keep moving those goalposts until the eventually don't pay it in about 5 years time, and get hit with a paltry -10 points. I'm sure they'll happily swap five years and £17m for -10 points!

 

Sadly, much as I'd love them to be toast, the FL rules and regs are so crap that AA can find away round them each and every time - he's probably already working on the reasons why they should receive the final parachute payment next summer!!

 

It makes a mockery of football and clubs trying to do things 'the right way', but I think more and more clubs will start to push the boundaries because they've seen how the rules can be massaged to avoid any sort of penalty from the FL. Eventually the FL will tighten things up, but not before they've been mugged off by a number of clubs!

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St Jim

St Jim

Posted
Posted
A couple of things strike me having read the thread this morning:

 

As to whether they can buy or sell the club or players now the WUP (note the difference between a WUP and a Winding Up Order), legally as I see it they can carry on and do what they want. But if they sell any assets now, after the WUP, and that transaction unfairly prejudices any creditor or class of creditors, or unfairly enriches any creditor or class, that transaction can be reversed. So they can sell anything now, but the proceeds of any sale must be distributed among the creditors in line with the insolvency rules.

 

 

Insolvency rules are secured creditors first then unsecured? so if they sell any players the proceeds will be lining Chinny's pockets

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted
As I understand it If thjey are given an advance on tehir final 16mil (2 x 8m ) parachute payments that were 'ringfenced' for the previous CVA of approx 17mil...(all no secured creditors)' date=' and this money is used now to pay the currrent scureed footballing creditors + teh first installmet of teh CVA - they are for now, home and dry.... however this then leaves them witha potential hole in servicing the reaminder of the CVA when its due - which if they fail to do will result in a BIG points deduction... however, if granted an advance on the final parachute payments, I guess there is nothing to stop them using some of this to buy in more players.... as we have seen them do time and time again - buy in more pay bigger wages whilst owing unsecureed creditors 17mil + the charities etc... on the hope they might get promoted and its all forgotten.... who knows... but if they are allowed an advance and it does not ALL go to meet the CVA... and nothing happens it would really highlight all that is wrong with their rotten club, the FL and FA....[/quote']

 

My prediction :

 

The DCFSBs will avoid the WUP - I reckon the FL will advance them the parachute payments.

 

Everything will be rosie until April when the first [sic] CVA payment is due. Don't worry about that, AA will just change the timescales again and they won't have to pay any money for another 12 months - and he still won't have broken any rules as the numpties agreed to it in the first place!

 

They'll then have some more 'sticky' patches over the summer when wages are due, but the FL will give them the remainder of the parachute payments - they'll then spunk the lot on more players and high wages.

 

It'll get interesting around this time next year when they have no parachute payments left to spend, and the wages will be due for payment - forget about the CVA as it's irrelevant. AA will just keep moving those goalposts until the eventually don't pay it in about 5 years time, and get hit with a paltry -10 points. I'm sure they'll happily swap five years and £17m for -10 points!

 

Sadly, much as I'd love them to be toast, the FL rules and regs are so crap that AA can find away round them each and every time - he's probably already working on the reasons why they should receive the final parachute payment next summer!!

 

It makes a mockery of football and clubs trying to do things 'the right way', but I think more and more clubs will start to push the boundaries because they've seen how the rules can be massaged to avoid any sort of penalty from the FL. Eventually the FL will tighten things up, but not before they've been mugged off by a number of clubs!

 

This is f**king sick. How can any of these scenarios be allowed ? Everyone f**king knows they are insolvent...

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Gruffalo

Gruffalo

Posted
Posted
I reckon the FL will advance them the parachute payments.

I think it's fair to say that Chinny just wants as much of his money back as possible - he has stated publicly on several occasions that he really doesn't want anything to do with the football club.

 

So, what would be the odds on AA managing to wangle an advance on the parachute payments, with the money being stuffed into Chinny's hand baggage on the next flight to Hong Kong ? He could then walk with £8m in used notes, send the club into oblivion and still hold a charge over whatever scraps were left (ie Fratton Park, or at least the land upon which it sits)..

 

Or is that just wishful thinking ? :o

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
As I understand it If thjey are given an advance on tehir final 16mil (2 x 8m ) parachute payments that were 'ringfenced' for the previous CVA of approx 17mil...(all no secured creditors)' date=' and this money is used now to pay the currrent scureed footballing creditors + teh first installmet of teh CVA - they are for now, home and dry.... however this then leaves them witha potential hole in servicing the reaminder of the CVA when its due - which if they fail to do will result in a BIG points deduction... however, if granted an advance on the final parachute payments, I guess there is nothing to stop them using some of this to buy in more players.... as we have seen them do time and time again - buy in more pay bigger wages whilst owing unsecureed creditors 17mil + the charities etc... on the hope they might get promoted and its all forgotten.... who knows... but if they are allowed an advance and it does not ALL go to meet the CVA... and nothing happens it would really highlight all that is wrong with their rotten club, the FL and ...[/quote']

 

The PPs are not ring fenced and the CVA can be renegotiated on creditors approval. It's the burn rate which will kill them and it's perhaps the fundamental issue - manage the finances in a sustainable manner. Otherwise as you say they are storing up trouble and this type of financial event will happen again.

 

I wonder what clubs like Nottingham Forest, Bristol City and the others fighting a relegation battle would think if the skates got a helping hand?

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St Jim

St Jim

Posted
Posted
Sorry blonde moment hit wrong button, How can Pompey turn down £1.6m, when its exactly what they need to get out of the mire, for about 10 mins mind you

 

unless Chinny is ready to cut his losses, wind the club up and make as much from players sales as possible while he can

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positivepete

positivepete

Posted
Posted
My prediction :

 

The DCFSBs will avoid the WUP - I reckon the FL will advance them the parachute payments.

 

Everything will be rosie until April when the first [sic] CVA payment is due. Don't worry about that, AA will just change the timescales again and they won't have to pay any money for another 12 months - and he still won't have broken any rules as the numpties agreed to it in the first place!

 

 

Except that as Hutch as pointed out above, under pressure from HMRC, Baker Tilley were appointed as the administrators of Oldco and the CVA so that AA could not delay the payments as he did at Swindon.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
My prediction :

 

The DCFSBs will avoid the WUP - I reckon the FL will advance them the parachute payments.

 

Everything will be rosie until April when the first [sic] CVA payment is due. Don't worry about that, AA will just change the timescales again and they won't have to pay any money for another 12 months - and he still won't have broken any rules as the numpties agreed to it in the first place!

 

They'll then have some more 'sticky' patches over the summer when wages are due, but the FL will give them the remainder of the parachute payments - they'll then spunk the lot on more players and high wages.

 

It'll get interesting around this time next year when they have no parachute payments left to spend, and the wages will be due for payment - forget about the CVA as it's irrelevant. AA will just keep moving those goalposts until the eventually don't pay it in about 5 years time, and get hit with a paltry -10 points. I'm sure they'll happily swap five years and £17m for -10 points!

 

Sadly, much as I'd love them to be toast, the FL rules and regs are so crap that AA can find away round them each and every time - he's probably already working on the reasons why they should receive the final parachute payment next summer!!

 

It makes a mockery of football and clubs trying to do things 'the right way', but I think more and more clubs will start to push the boundaries because they've seen how the rules can be massaged to avoid any sort of penalty from the FL. Eventually the FL will tighten things up, but not before they've been mugged off by a number of clubs!

I agree but AA is only trying to sell the club and are not in admin Lol. therefore the rules are not so easy for him this time.

It will be interesting if the schools, St John ambulance and the utilities companies will be happy to hold off this time, they will not want to be out of pocket again.Any supplier will be on a cash only basis and so any limited money coming in will be soon gone. The gate revenue second half of the season is going to be less as they have had 2 of their best paydays in us and WHU and so the gate revenue stream will be lower.

I do believe that the FL will pass some money to them, WHU wil putting as much pressure on them as possible as they have self interest.

All in all they will stagger from 1 crisis to another, but whether they will come through this time it is very hard to say.

Listening to Adam Blackmore on solent last night he felf they would be fine, and said that Pompey could not be compared to saints as they are not linked to their parent company!!

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Listening to Adam Blackmore on solent last night he felf they would be fine, and said that Pompey could not be compared to saints as they are not linked to their parent company!!

 

businessman-banging-his-head-against-the-wall-ispc026073.jpg?w=460

 

 

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !

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anothersaintinsouthsea

anothersaintinsouthsea

Posted
Posted

So far today on Twitter:

 

feverpitch @feverpitch

Reply RetweetedRetweet

Delete

FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details RT @sharpcroft: No income tax, no VAT, no premier league points off man city, in the dock, face so pale, Harry Redknapp's going to jaaaaail.

 

Ed Bartlett @EdBartlett

Reply RetweetedRetweet

Delete

FavoritedFavorite · Close Open Details RT @sadeagle: Harry Redknapp's face reminds of an old owl trapped in a lava lamp.

 

like that last one

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
The reason why live tweets were banned from the courtroom.

 

Ooops.

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=48623&c=1

 

Doh!

 

Use of Twitter has been banned from the tax evasion trial of Harry Redknapp after a journalist named a juror on the social networking site.

The same reporter, who is understood to be a staff journalist with Guardian News and Media, is believed to have also reported the evidence of a witness given under oath when the jury was not present.

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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted

My reading of the likley outcome is from now.....

 

a) They get a buyer soon. If so surely would have to be another nutter/crook, but might put the end game off for a while. Not very likely

 

b) More likely is that they go into admin just before the winding up hearing. (It will be interesting to see who is appointed administrator ... could it be AA again?!!!! ) Then by selling players, messing about with the parachute payments etc they should be able to scrape along till the end of the season, albeit with a points deduction, which is what the FL will prefer to them disappearing mid-season. The crunch will then come when they are due to make payments under the CVA, but have already spent some or all of the parachute money that was earmarked for this. They may or may not be able to renegotiate the terms.

 

So for me the most likely future now is admin, points deduction, and another crisis as they get relegated. Next season they may start as a skint L1 club, or they may fold during the close season ---about 50-50 I'd say.

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