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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Pugwash

Pugwash

Posted
Posted
As things stand, administration looks unlikely, unless there's some hitherto unknown individual or body that can put them there. They face a winding-up petition courtesy of HMRC, as a result of which they are effectively in limbo - bank accounts frozen, not permitted to sell the business or any assets thereof, and so forth. I'm pretty sure that under these conditions there are very strict limits on who could put the business into administration. A secured creditor can, I think, but that would mean either Chainrai or CSI (who are pretty much one and the same now anyway) I would imagine - will he want to do it?

 

So it will all hinge on the outcome of the petition; HMRC will have a considerably stronger hand to play than they did at the previous one, as any argument put forward by Pompey's lawyers will be met with "That's what they said the last time, and here we are again." Last time, the presence of a significant legal team to put Pompey's case, plus the various statements of valuable assets and potential buyers, swayed the court. If they'd gone on to the second hearing, I think the plug would have been pulled, but they were put into administration before that happened. I can't see them being given another stay of execution.

 

Sorry, I didn't make my point very clear. If the £10.8m is considered as a PFC debt and it minimises the HMRC percentage of the total debt, does this make it more attractive for AA/Chanrai to put the club into administration, thereby avoiding the WUP, in the knowledge that they can push through another CVA in their favour?

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

 

In other words, they end up with a points penalty whichever way they spin it...?

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

 

In company law, I wouldn't have thought that employees salaries would be classed as a something that could be added in to a CVA. Yes, they get a vote in a CVA for the amount owed (but that's nothing at the moment). Would any administrator be allowed to tot up their contracts and add it to any other creditors?

 

I also can't work out why it's in Chanarai's interest to keep the club going. He can sit tight and let HMRC wind the club up, and he'll be left with a pile of land. I'd be pretty sure there could be no argument with any request for change of use if there was no football club.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
In company law, I wouldn't have thought that employees salaries would be classed as a something that could be added in to a CVA. Yes, they get a vote in a CVA for the amount owed (but that's nothing at the moment). Would any administrator be allowed to tot up their contracts and add it to any other creditors?

 

I also can't work out why it's in Chanarai's interest to keep the club going. He can sit tight and let HMRC wind the club up, and he'll be left with a pile of land. I'd be pretty sure there could be no argument with any request for change of use if there was no football club.

 

Football Creditors includes any unpiad Playeres Salaries but also Agent Fees

 

So Etuhu signed did his agent get a fee? has he been paid?

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

I do actually feel sorry for the decent phew of the phew, but I genuinely believe the best chance they have of rebuilding their club is for the present regime to be wiped out & for a fresh start. Whether it's big points hits and rebuilding from League One or Two, or from Conference South, it is the only way to move forward. The only way they can continue as it stands is if someone either lend Chinny & co a sum of money, or 'buys' the club from him on HP again. Either way, Chinny & Gaydy remain involved, the club can't progress in any way and the death by a thousand cuts drags on for another season or two. Eventually they will have to take their pain. We took it, Bompey took it, Brighton took it, Wimbledon and Aldershot and others took it, and most of us have regrown and gone forward. I will kind of miss them if they go, but I really don't see a way out of this now. It is a quick death or a slow one - those are their options.

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
In other words, they end up with a points penalty whichever way they spin it...?

I'd have thought so. I hadn't heard that anyone was disputing the £10.8m loan and, surely (ahem), AA as Administrator of CSI would be calling that in.....surely......

 

Thinking aloud now, if CSI call in the loan, PFS won't be able to pay, so points deduction. Could AA force a player fire sale in order to boost the cash that CSIs creditors (Chinny) get? Then they could let them go in front of the beak for the WUP and let HMRC do Chinny's dirty work for him. Result is club gets wound up, remaining players are released, no club left so no need to cough up for players contracts as FL Golden Share is not required. Chinny gets the ground.

 

I'm struggling to see how there would be a better outcome for Chinny.

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the colonel

the colonel

Posted
Posted
Precisely. This entire thread is just about the finest example you'll ever see of utter hipocracy. All fuelled by vicious hatred and jealousy...

 

And you love coming here to read it....sad very sad....I don't go on your skate boards but I suspect there is nothing on this board that isn't reciprocated.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
In company law, I wouldn't have thought that employees salaries would be classed as a something that could be added in to a CVA. Yes, they get a vote in a CVA for the amount owed (but that's nothing at the moment). Would any administrator be allowed to tot up their contracts and add it to any other creditors?

 

I also can't work out why it's in Chanarai's interest to keep the club going. He can sit tight and let HMRC wind the club up, and he'll be left with a pile of land. I'd be pretty sure there could be no argument with any request for change of use if there was no football club.

 

money_parachute.jpg

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

 

That is what worries me.

 

DFCSBs

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
What i want is for them to have to sell their better players and limp along with the younger/fringe players they have left.Let them last just long enough until they come to St Marys when we thrash them 4,5,6 nil.

Then knowing all is lost they can be relegated or just go out of business.

 

Ideally they'll be liquidated and the Hammers and others lose all the points they gained against them.

 

But if not, I'd settle for them limping along until April playing the kids/parking attendant/tea lady, and getting a 40 points deduction late enough for it to take effect in L1 the next season.

 

or the judge gives them a "stay of execution" for x amount of weeks to which Chainrai finds some nutter to pump some funds in

 

I think Chinny is running out of nutters. :D

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
By the way, congratulations to the 1000 club members. :adore:

 

Posts 1,577 dubai_phil

 

Posts 1,418 OldNick

 

Posts 1,311 pedg

 

Posts 1,033 rallyboy

 

Posts 1,016 Channon's Sideburns

 

Bloody hell. That makes it look like an obsession.... :lol:

 

Would be nice if OldNick gets to post 'I was wrong - they didn't get away with it'....

 

Here's hoping :lol:

 

That's 1,017. haha

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
'I toast therefore I am' :)

 

Well, randomly, we will soon be ONLY 25 pages from the magical 1,000 mark. So I just hopped back in time to 2009 and page 25 to see what gems existed back in the old days.

 

It really is astonishing that we are still saying the same and asking the same questions. Anyway here's a sample to :p:rolleyes: or :lol: at

 

It will happen mate..........keep the faith. Remember, for every good thing that happens, somewhere in the 'county', something bad will happen....lol

 

He's not going...

 

"Fahim, who is intent on adopting a low-key public persona, has no plans to hold a media conference before or after the Fulham match or to arrange any formal meetings with the supporters. "

 

from http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/11/sulaiman-al-fahim-portsmouth

 

Suprise suprise.

 

In a way i feel sorry for them, because this guy is moving from Pinnacle status to MJ status. It will never happen, he has not got the money, not a penny. i don't see why he doesn't just come out and end it?

 

But he's probably living in the same dream many of the supporters are. Only Gadamak can end this deal.

 

I had a chat today with someone who's daughter is an Accountant at Pompey. She is working 12hr days and, wouldn't give details, but said they are in a world of sh*t.

 

 

I would genuinely feel sorry for them if it wasn't so f***ing funny.

 

Anyone hear the one about the African player who came over for a trial whilst Saggytwitch was still on Spend, Spend, Spend mode.

 

He was put up in the hotel behind the Concorde Club (which for foreigners is just round the corner from their premier league standard training ground).

 

Obviously didn't impress, as Harry would have taken him onto Spurs. However, last winter someone new to the accounts dept. queried a monthly hotel bill and it seems he had been living there for the best part of 6 months and they had been picking up the tab. :D

 

Listening to the Quay radio station,Storrie claims one definate signing tomorrow and then another three before the transfer window shuts.

Recieved confirmation that they got a work permit for a Zimbabwean(sp) player,Kaiser Chiefs defender.

Distin offered a new contract,offers for him have been turned down.

Still cant confirm takeover details or timescale,this is between Gadymak and the 'Doctor'.

Al Fahim will be at the Fulham game.

Papers are stirring the Admin story,he is doing everything to keep the club going.

Takeover will 'hopefully 'come to a conclusion.

He was asked if he thinks Admin will take place,he again stated he is working hard to keep things going at the club,which he has been doing for the last 7 months..He will sell more players if it becomes nesessary.

Viduka, if fit would be good,but he is still on holiday....somewhere possibly greek islands!

Bopp has not been signed and most trialists have been let go.

Bassira(sp)is one of the players to sign.

Cranie goes becase he wants regular football.

Storrie takes responsibility,admits paid too much on wages and when Gadymak ran out of funds it became difficult.

He wont comment on the money owed to the bank.

Too move forward we needed to sell players in January,commitments to players wages could not be met,Gadymak had no money.

The lenders for the funds for the training ground have got 'twitchy' we are going to have to try to reassure them.

He works for PFC,but dosen't know who owns the club!

He genuinly dosent know if the takeover will definately come to fruition,he cannot tell the fans anything for definate.

 

All from Peter Storrie.

 

Confirmed by Storrie tonight,the lenders are getting a little 'twitchy' and need reasurrances before they agree to finance the funding for the training facilities.

He stated this was going to require considerable work given the current financial predicament that PFC find themselves in.

 

I still have tommac's email somewhere. I think it's time he made an offer.

 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/564669-new-pompey-owner-hits-back-at-media-criticism

I could have sworn I read all this before somewhere... Oh yes, it was Tony - trust me, this deal is almost done - Lynam. Taxi for Doctor Skate

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Anyone else notice that Pompeys Mayor is under Police investigation as well ?

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/police_sift_council_files_after_claim_that_portsmouth_s_lord_mayor_broke_law_1_3441926

 

What a city :lol::lol::lol:

 

Christ on a bike! :lol:

 

Football Club

Former Football Club owner x 2

Former Football Club Manager

Local MP

Local Mayor

 

Truly. We haven't needed to waste 1000+ posts taking the p1ss out of the city, they do it so well themselves

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Panda

Panda

Posted
Posted

There has been a lot of comment on here recently about AA bending the figures again to block HMRC in agreeing a CVA but a CVA will only be required IF the football club is placed in to administration. However, Mr Andronikou said quite categorically that "administration is the last thing we will consider." I acknowledge that believing anything he says is a big risk but to me that says "If we can't sell we will liquidate." Somewhere else he said about previous owners not being prepared to put more money in to keep the company going until a sale is forthcoming. It seems to me that BC will tell AA to liquidate CSI and its assets as soon as it becomes impossible to continue, which is probably the day before the court issues the winding up order on PFC UNLESS the impossible happens and a buyer appears and puts the money down to pay off HMRC. This would suit the Football League and is why they are playing for time. They would prefer not to put the knife in and would rather HMRC or BC did it for them, it would avoid all sorts of complications and recriminations amongst league members. So, its find a buyer in about three (?) weeks maximum or its 'toast'. But like the rest of you experts on here, I am only guessing and they will probably get away with it again!

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PaulSaint

PaulSaint

Posted
Posted

I was just thinking to myself that Pompeys behaviour over the last 10 years and this thread in particular would make a great film documentary. So come on guys, what's the title gonna be?

 

How about:

 

From the Prem to the Pritstick.

Or

Godfather parts 4,5 and 6.

Or

From FA Cup to p1ssless pot

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)
There has been a lot of comment on here recently about AA bending the figures again to block HMRC in agreeing a CVA but a CVA will only be required IF the football club is placed in to administration. However, Mr Andronikou said quite categorically that "administration is the last thing we will consider." I acknowledge that believing anything he says is a big risk but to me that says "If we can't sell we will liquidate." Somewhere else he said about previous owners not being prepared to put more money in to keep the company going until a sale is forthcoming. It seems to me that BC will tell AA to liquidate CSI and its assets as soon as it becomes impossible to continue, which is probably the day before the court issues the winding up order on PFC UNLESS the impossible happens and a buyer appears and puts the money down to pay off HMRC. This would suit the Football League and is why they are playing for time. They would prefer not to put the knife in and would rather HMRC or BC did it for them, it would avoid all sorts of complications and recriminations amongst league members. So, its find a buyer in about three (?) weeks maximum or its 'toast'. But like the rest of you experts on here, I am only guessing and they will probably get away with it again!

 

To help here is the handy AA translation guide:

 

[TABLE=class: outer_border, align: center]

[TR]

[TD]Says[/TD]

[TD]Means[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]We are not panicking[/TD]

[TD]We are panicking[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]We have a plan[/TD]

[TD]We do not have a plan[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]We were expecting this[/TD]

[TD]It came out of the blue[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]We have two or three parties interested[/TD]

[TD]We have no real interest[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Administration is the last thing we would consider[/TD]

[TD]We are considering administration[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]we haven’t got millions and millions of liabilities[/TD]

[TD]we have got millions and millions of liabilities[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]The club is still running under the steam of the board[/TD]

[TD]The club is still being run on thin air[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]We are trying to find [a new owner] who is not going to be there for five minutes[/TD]

[TD]We will take anyone.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited by pedg
y oh y
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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted
I was just thinking to myself that Pompeys behaviour over the last 10 years and this thread in particular would make a great film documentary. So come on guys, what's the title gonna be?

 

How about:

 

From the Prem to the Pritstick.

Or

Godfather parts 4,5 and 6.

Or

From FA Cup to p1ssless pot

 

''the Last days of Pompeii (sic)''

 

The Terminator 5 - Chinney: 'Ill be back'

 

Falling Down (Fratton Park)

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
I was just thinking to myself that Pompeys behaviour over the last 10 years and this thread in particular would make a great film documentary. So come on guys, what's the title gonna be?

 

How about:

 

From the Prem to the Pritstick.

Or

Godfather parts 4,5 and 6.

Or

From FA Cup to p1ssless pot

 

 

Having viewed the inhabitants of Portsmouth on December 18th from the top deck of a double decker bus and having read the most recent offering from pfc 123, it surely has to be

 

Shameless

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
I was just thinking to myself that Pompeys behaviour over the last 10 years and this thread in particular would make a great film documentary. So come on guys, what's the title gonna be?

 

How about:

 

From the Prem to the Pritstick.

Or

Godfather parts 4,5 and 6.

Or

From FA Cup to p1ssless pot

 

'Burnt Out Shredders' - How Not to run a Football Club

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dvaughanwilliams

dvaughanwilliams

Posted
Posted
So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

 

How much does the new company owe Baker Tilley, liquidators of the old co, for the CVA?

 

That £10.8m depends on who the other creditors to CSI are. If it's just Chainrai, no problems. If there are other significant creditors, it's a real problem.

 

Chainrai is only owed money by PFC to the extent of the loan he made for last month's salary. The major loan is to CSI, who are a totally separate legal entity.

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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
I was just thinking to myself that Pompeys behaviour over the last 10 years and this thread in particular would make a great film documentary. So come on guys, what's the title gonna be?

 

How about:

 

From the Prem to the Pritstick.

Or

Godfather parts 4,5 and 6.

Or

From FA Cup to p1ssless pot

 

There was no one more gutted than me when JoCa pulled out, I had sequel after sequel of this blockbuster...

 

vatmanz.jpg

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dvaughanwilliams

dvaughanwilliams

Posted
Posted

With regard to paying up players' salaries I can imagine the following conversation:

 

Appleton or Limpet calls player into office

 

"Listen son, another club's made a bid for you. It's enough money to pay off HMRC and will save the club, but only if you agree to the transfer and waive your contractual right to have your contract paid up. If you don't accept the club will be liquidated. Either way, you won't play for Portsmouth and you won't get your contract paid up. Whaddayathink?"

 

Of course the only ones who would fall for this schtick would be the young, dedicated, naive idealists like Ward and possibly Pearce. The experienced pros will tell him that they aren't very impressed with that offer.

 

Unfortunately, the players that would leave aren't on the highest wages and are probably their better players. However, if a bid came in for, say, £2.5m I bet HMRC would sanction the sale despite the WUP.

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positivepete

positivepete

Posted
Posted (edited)
So they still have a rabbit.

 

Right now they say they owe CSI nothing (to avoid a points penalty for unfair advantage when they don't pay it back)

 

But IF they elect for or Chinny or AA puts them into admin, what is the betting that the 10.8mil once again rer-appears.

 

Add Football Creditors (well at least any players wages) to the 10.8 and HMRC are outvoted AGAIN on a CVA

 

I tend to go with the theory that the FL are waiting for HMRC to finish them off, but this £10.8m is a problem for them if they do not. Shifting debt and assets, such as the ground and any charges, in the case of PFC is regarded by the FL as gaining an advantage unfairly, this was one of the clarifications arising from our case regarding holding companies and if they are linked. So they either owe CSI £10.8m, and they must repay it, which they cannot, or they shifted the ground and the charge to CSI to gain an advantage by using the "cash" to strengthen their squad. Either way if HMRC do not get them, the FL under pressure from the other golden share holders will have to act.

 

The FL would always want to protect the "integrity of the competition", but this could be viewed in two ways, the scenario above, a club gains an advantage by shifting debt, or the full fixture list is completed. The FL would much rather have this sort of event happen close season when points can be deducted before the competition starts. They do not want to be in the position of expunging results, or deducting points which may affect the ability of a club to find a buyer, though I think it has gone beyond that last hope for PFC now.

Edited by positivepete
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