St Marco Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 No, as long as the 'child' company can trade solvently under its own steam.... But didn't our parent company go into admin and Lowe tried that defence that the club was alright and we got done for it? At least that is how i remember it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Without them we would have no derby games to look forward to. We won't anyway after next year. Let them burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 But didn't our parent company go into admin and Lowe tried that defence that the club was alright and we got done for it? At least that is how i remember it? The Football League ruled that Lowe 'invented' our parent company as a crafty way of trying to protect the "football club" from the financial trouble it was in. Like it or not, CSI appears to be genuine parent company with self sustaining independently trading companies operating beneath it. SFC was not self sustaining from SLH. PFC, in theory, are self sustaining from CSI. In theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 29 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2011 This latest news is a real boost to the chances that this thread will, in a month or two, reach 1000 pages and 50000 replies; when it does (and not before) then we should close it and let the good ship AFC Pomfrit start their journey from the lower reaches of Hampshire League football in comparative peace. But for the time being the ride is just too good to get off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 PFC IMO will escape a points deduction should they remain self sufficient and solvent. The next question would be, how long can that concievably last now the life support has not just been cut off, but almost chucked out of the building ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 900... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 900.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 No, as long as the 'child' company can trade solvently under its own steam.... Is this feasible? I mean, are they in a situation to be able to do this without the support of the parent company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 (edited) The Football League ruled that Lowe 'invented' our parent company as a crafty way of trying to protect the "football club" from the financial trouble it was in. No they didn't, because that would be insane. Southampton Leisure Holdings was set up 7 years before the Football League's insolvency rules were implemented. Edited 29 November, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 That's the crux of the matter. The key question to me is how long does a 'child' company have to prove that it can trade solvently without the support of it's ailing parent company before it is put out of its misery? Days, weeks, months, years? Or is it entirely up to the administrator's discretion as to when that moment arrives? And who is it that acts as judge? The Office of Fair trading? The football authorities? The administrator alone? Agreed. According to CoversSports Initiatives' web site, The subsidiaries of Convers Sports Initiatives plc are not subject to an Administration Order. So as long as either a) there's a big wadge of cash or a non-parent secured line of credit available to Portsmouth FC or b) Portsmouth FC is operating as a profitable, cash-generating business; then there is no problem at all. What's that? Oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 let the good ship AFC Pomfrit start their journey from the lower reaches of Hampshire League football in comparative peace. I would have no issues , really, with AFC Pomfrit. It is the unimaginable levels of fraud and cheating both on and off the pitch that have fuelled my current hatred of the cesspit of a club. It will be only the genuine football fans who migrate to the new club and are happy to stand and watch them play with jumpers for goalposts. I would wish them well. This lot, as its stands at the moment, should just do the decent thing and die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint dyer Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 They are like a turd that won't flush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Nah not quite... haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 (edited) How many of CSI's other child companies have CVA's outstanding I wonder, looks like a fantastic business to invest in I'm sure. Edited 29 November, 2011 by sussexsaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Who is this reporter on SSN....'loyal fans, great following, turn up week in week out blah, blah, blah'. FFS has he not seen the average gates? Bob Beech, SOS Pompey..... 'we don't want Chanrai'....but without him propping up the club you will go under. Bob says 'we want the club, we'll show you how to run it, let the fans take over'. Have the bestest fans got the means to finance the CVA and pay the wage bill then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Agreed. According to CoversSports Initiatives' web site, The subsidiaries of Convers Sports Initiatives plc are not subject to an Administration Order. I was under the impression that Convers Sports was sort of the holding company with all these other companies as subsidiaries? Which parts of CSI does this administration affect if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 the old woman on the scooter is back again, what a legend http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9390942.Pompey_owners_in_insolvency_proceedings/#commentsList Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Sorry if already posted - my laptop is very slow tonight and it would take me an age to scroll back over the last two or three pages http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15944523.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 "It will have to be decided whether CSI and Portsmouth were effectively run as one "economic entity," insolvency lawyer Guy Thomas of Taylor Walton told BBC Sport. "The penalty - ranging between 10 and 25 points - will depend on the outcome of that review. "Pompey will have its chance to put their case but on balance I wouldn't hold out much hope that the club will avoid at least a 10-point deduction," added Thomas It appears we're going to see just how much balls the FL has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Sorry if already posted - my laptop is very slow tonight and it would take me an age to scroll back over the last two or three pages http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15944523.stm About 20 times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 "It will have to be decided whether CSI and Portsmouth were effectively run as one "economic entity," insolvency lawyer Guy Thomas of Taylor Walton told BBC Sport. "The penalty - ranging between 10 and 25 points - will depend on the outcome of that review. "Pompey will have its chance to put their case but on balance I wouldn't hold out much hope that the club will avoid at least a 10-point deduction," added Thomas It appears we're going to see just how much balls the FL has We know that won't be proven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Sorry if already posted - my laptop is very slow tonight and it would take me an age to scroll back over the last two or three pages http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15944523.stm Watch Poopey get away with a points deduction just like we didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Has any club lurched from one disaster to another so many times over the years???? Portsmuff have been a basket case since the 70s and their history is just littered with crooks, bullshi5tters and spivs. They'd be better off just taking the hit, reforming and starting from the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Is this feasible? I mean, are they in a situation to be able to do this without the support of the parent company? That's the proverbial $64,000 question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 No they didn't, because that would be insane. Southampton Leisure Holdings was set up 7 years before the Football League's insolvency rules were implemented. I always said Lowe was a man with great foresight... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Has any club lurched from one disaster to another so many times over the years???? Portsmuff have been a basket case since the 70s and their history is just littered with crooks, bullshi5tters and spivs. They'd be better off just taking the hit, reforming and starting from the bottom. Too be fair, crooks, bullshi5tters and spivs can hide in plain site in that town. They blend in perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 FL: So, is CSI and PFC one and the same? PFC: No of course not. Don't be stupid. We can stand on our own two feet without Vlad's Millions. FL: Oh really? PFC: Ya really. FL: Prove it. PFC: Simples, we're getting 14,000 a week. FL: But of those, only around 6-7000 are paying full price. PFC:...... FL: And you've got an squad of high earners. PFC:....... FL: Those toliet improvements didn't come cheap did they? PFC:......erm...... FL: So how are you a solvent concern? PFC......*mutters about the bestest fans in the world*...... FL: Will you even make it to the next payday? PFC: Wanna buy a football club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Well, before the troll is allowed back on here I think some of us are due an apology from him. I believe we pointed out from numerous sources the issues with his new owners, their history, their allocation of funding to the project. But like many he stuck cotton wool in his ears and two fingers up to us. So just for his benefit tonight I would like to point out, once again, maintaining our 100% success rate on calling ALL their recent owners fake crook or broke... We Told You So Congratulations to the eloquence of the others, the sufferers of my (somewhat enforced obliqueness) and the sheer persistence of the main story tellers. I'm raising a glass to my fellow true Saints Heroes right this moment. Well done one and all. And now for the next 900 pages Gentlemen, Ladies and of course Eric. I salute you all. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Neil Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Might be worth a listen the football hour http://www.expressfm.com/player/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 If the Administrator sold PFC to CSI and Chanrai is only owed money, is there a mechanism that would allow him any access to PFC other than to be a creditor? Administration would not allow him access. The new Administrator (AA) would surely have to decide what to do with PFC as long as it remains solvent as an asset of CSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 If the Administrator sold PFC to CSI and Chanrai is only owed money, is there a mechanism that would allow him any access to PFC other than to be a creditor? Administration would not allow him access. The new Administrator (AA) would surely have to decide what to do with PFC as long as it remains solvent as an asset of CSI. AA...now who does he work for again? Hacker Chanrai Young? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 If the Administrator sold PFC to CSI and Chanrai is only owed money, is there a mechanism that would allow him any access to PFC other than to be a creditor? Administration would not allow him access. The new Administrator (AA) would surely have to decide what to do with PFC as long as it remains solvent as an asset of CSI. Aha...but with Mr Chinnery as a secured creditor..... you know that thing that surgeons do after an operation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Just spent the best 45 mins of the year so far catching up on the day's happenings. My money is for liquidation by Chinny/Gaydamak putting in p0lanning permission for a block of flats, with the requisite 'leisure' facilities/monkey petting zoo on the site. If you didn't know better, you'd have thought this was the game plan all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Well things are going well down the road eh? Dont blame them for giving the parent company angle a shot, everyone else has so why not them? I take it CSI have several irons in the fire though so there is a chance that they can have a bit more thought about it. Explaining how they can run solvently without CSI might not be as easy though, the FL already have a full account of their books as they have been green lighting the comings and goings all this time right? So will they make it to our match then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Would be a bit of a bu**er if they owed £4000000 in CVA payments in a few months wouldn't it. Oh they do Happy Days are Here Again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 more details here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/29/portsmouth-parent-company-administration However, that attempt to hold back the tide belied a recognition by Dubov, Akers and senior staff at Fratton Park, including the chief executive David Lampitt, that the position was very serious. No further public statements were made until the sudden appointment of administrators to CSI. Akers, however, told the Guardian that Antonov has invested around £10.5m into Portsmouth to pay for transfer fees and underwrite players' wages since CSI bought the club from the previous owner, the Hong Kong-based businessman, Balram Chainrai, in June. Akers said the club were relying on Antonov for continued funding, which includes paying 20p in the pound over the next five years to creditors who lost up to £80m in the club's administration. Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs claim to be owed £37m in unpaid tax and VAT, and is challenging in the high court the league's "football creditors rule", which sees clubs and players required to be paid in full when a club exits administration while tax and other creditors must accept a fraction of their losses. Chainrai himself loaned £17m to Portsmouth, then put the club into administration, bought it back, then sold it to CSI. CSI is understood to be overdue paying Chainrai instalments, and he registered a mortgage against CSI before the administrators were appointed. That makes Chainrai the early favourite to take the club over, again. [/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Well been busy all day & just popped on whilst on lunch break, wow its really hit the fan today. I personally cant see how CSI & POORsmuff are not inextricably linked, as they've been bailing them out all season without CSI they are operating insolvently once again. If chaimrai comes back its surley to liquidate the fewer. Whish I'd brought Toast for my lunch now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 more details here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/29/portsmouth-parent-company-administration Good for starters. Take a bow everyone on here - it's your diligent research that's provided the backbone for this article to be published. I'm confident there's a lot more to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 I absolutely love seeing them lot down the road suffering again I really do. Buying their way to the cup final TWICE with a ridiculously expensive squad they couldn't afford, signing the likes of Jermaine Defoe and Peter Crouch, finishing high in the Prem, reaching the UEFA cup and absolutely laughing at us and taking the **** about our plight beating us 4-1 at St Marys in the process and yet some of fans feel sorry for these inbred bunch of ****wits having to go through this again?! I hope this is truly the end for them and they fail to escape the punishment they got away with last time. Can't see it happening though, I'm sure they'll get away with it all once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 On the question of a points deduction: http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/pompey-and-the-potential-for-points-deduction/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTONS EAST SIDE Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 PFC IMO will escape a points deduction should they remain self sufficient and solvent. The next question would be, how long can that concievably last now the life support has not just been cut off, but almost chucked out of the building ?AFC Pomfriet are classed as wholly owned asset of CSI, their recent upgrades of Farton park, players ect were all funded by CSI. I maybe wrong but Admin for CSI means Admin for PFC, as their only an asset to be sold on to pay off the charges against them! Like i said i maybe wrong, but i,m sure they said after they came in that that Poopey was wholly owned by them: CSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merovingian Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 do you guys really want to see us go down the pan, I mean the real fans on here which some of you are not real football fans. I certainly did not want to see you go to the wall and stated so on here, I want to be able to continue the rivalry, considering you were close to going under and being non existant I find some views on here very odd. I would be happy to see a points deduction because thats the law and whats rightly so examining the recent past but for some of you here wanting us to be completely wiped out, football fans? Hmmm.....I understand that point of view aganst the PFC fans that have no idea but for us ordinary fans? I think this is the end game, cannot see anyway out of this one. Start again and go from there. Will never be the same between us though will it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 do you guys really want to see us go down the pan, I mean the real fans on here which some of you are not real football fans. I certainly did not want to see you go to the wall and stated so on here, I want to be able to continue the rivalry, considering you were close to going under and being non existant I find some views on here very odd. I would be happy to see a points deduction because thats the law and whats rightly so examining the recent past but for some of you here wanting us to be completely wiped out, football fans? Hmmm.....I understand that point of view aganst the PFC fans that have no idea but for us ordinary fans? I think this is the end game, cannot see anyway out of this one. Start again and go from there. Will never be the same between us though will it. If you started off again from the very bottom, shed the shackles of the corrupt and morally empty administrations that you previously threw yourselves behind I may have sympathy and wish you all well. As things stand, let the b*stards burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 On the question of a points deduction: http://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/pompey-and-the-potential-for-points-deduction/? Good article, I for one think the few can demonstrate independence from CSI position, their situation is more akin to the West Ham one than ours. I've nearly finished a book called Boomerang, it is basically a financial journo touring Greece, Ireland and Iceland looking at the roots of the current financial crisis. The conclusion I have drawn is that these countries will default, face years of austerity or most likely both. They cannot bail the water out any faster than it is coming in. And here is the scoop for the few. Their books do not balance, even if you remove the CVA. They have financial millstones around their neck and has their plight worsens the few will become fewer. They have no assets to speak of so their only hope is a billionaire walking into town. In that regard they face the very real issue that anyone in that position would likely take a L1 or L2 club for a startup project. They will fail, maybe if they are lucky they will be allowed to slip through the leagues. As for us versus the Skates it is over as a contest for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 do you guys really want to see us go down the pan. No mate and I don't believe that many of us on here do. I've grown up with the rivary and banter and the defeat in the prem still haunts me (Genuinely couldnt care about the FA cup one) I can't deny I want you to suffer, but that's as far as it goes. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Mero, Mack and even PFC123 I do indeed have sympathy for you guys as you come on here and take the flack and you seem decent fans. I suspect though that you are only a small portion of Pompey fans who didn't want to see Saints die and for that thank you. Snag is though that lots and lots did want Saints to die and being only a human who believes in an eye for an eye I wouldn't shed any tears if this Pompey lot do go under. Having said that though IF the fans start an AFC Pompey then I genuinely wish that club all the very best and really hope you do an AFC Wimbledon and get back into the League as soon as you can. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 do you guys really want to see us go down the pan, I mean the real fans on here which some of you are not real football fans. I certainly did not want to see you go to the wall and stated so on here, I want to be able to continue the rivalry, considering you were close to going under and being non existant I find some views on here very odd. I would be happy to see a points deduction because thats the law and whats rightly so examining the recent past but for some of you here wanting us to be completely wiped out, football fans? Hmmm.....I understand that point of view aganst the PFC fans that have no idea but for us ordinary fans? I think this is the end game, cannot see anyway out of this one. Start again and go from there. Will never be the same between us though will it. While I think that you do deserve further sanctions, we need the South Coast Rivalry to be alive and kicking and I want to see you survive somewhere, and build yourselves back up again.... Think both clubs would feel a bit empty without each other TBH.. I think you will avaoid a points deduction for the CSI administration but I am not so sure you will be able to stand on your own two feet without Antonov subbing you, so thats where the points deduction might come. But I too wish you luck - I think you will need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 No mate and I don't believe that many of us on here do. I've grown up with the rivary and banter and the defeat in the prem still haunts me (Genuinely couldnt care about the FA cup one) I can't deny I want you to suffer, but that's as far as it goes. Good luck This. A slow a painful revenge for cheating, heading to L2 and then finally in 4 or 5 years time a slow turn around but with a proper football club. Unfortunately once again you have been let down by a failure of Corporate Compliance and Due Dilligence by those supposed to be acting in your interests. We saw it we called it and TBH you should NEVER have been sold to these guys and Chinny should have decided your fate. Whatever spark you may have had of hope or value has now been re-inforced by mending the dripping taps in the bogs. Pretty sad return for 5 months really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 WHS ^^^^ For the likes of Mero I have every sympathy, but Ho Ho Ho and the like??? Nah. For every honest Pompey fan on here there's another 100 who (if you dare go onto their forums) ban you within a post because of who you support - followed by endless abuse. Not to mention the 1000's who have been happy to accept any dodgy sods money if it fills their heart with football hope. I have strong memories of leaving FP in 1984 at the age of 10 dodging bricks being thrown at our coach. You can forgive that sort of behaviour, but never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 29 November, 2011 Share Posted 29 November, 2011 Does anyone really want Bompey or Brighton as our main rivals over Pompey ? Not me thanks. 10 point deduction will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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