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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
But you did spend money. You bought Scheiderlin. It may have been in installments as were the deals for the players we brought in but you bought him nonetheless. You also brought free transfers like Wotton, Holmes, Molyneaux & Ryan Smith. And if there were no signing on fees or agents fees involved that would be a first in football.

 

We sold £43m worth of players, not to mention desperately trying to offload the likes of Nugent (who we loaned out anyway) and Utaka. Would you not call that cutting our cloth? As for bringing players in, did you really expect us not to at least bring in some replacements for the ones we sold for £43m and released on frees? TBH is on too much and it was a crap deal that should have had a relegation clause added but that's one deal. So we brought a few players in, it was hardly spending like there was no tomorrow. Can you not see that £43m in player sales and the SKY money should have been more than enough to fund these players AND pay off whatever debts we had at this time (or at least reduce them significantly) to where admin wouldn't have been needed and we could have survived comfortably on the parachute payments? It's the one that Saints fans always turn a blind eye to

 

 

Not sure what point you're trying to prove. CSI own Fratton Park, that was proved by looking at the land registry ages ago.

 

As for the Gaydamaks "running the show" - how exactly? Gaydamak certainly owns the land around the ground but the ground's not going to be extended any time soon so how are they "running things". They get a rent for the car park - whoopee doo. If (and that's a big if) CSI decide to redevelop Fratton then maybe they'll buy the land. Until then, why bother? Gaydamak's not going to do anything with it. the council won't approve planning permission for a supermarket if it impacts on the ability to expand the ground in the future otherwise he'd have sold it ages ago. It's an impasse. Neither group has the upper hand.

 

So, what was it you were trying to prove?

 

Corpy.

 

I shall make this short and sweet.

 

Yes, you 'sold' playing staff for £43M but you didn't necessarily BANK £43M - why?

 

Because you hadn't paid for most of them when you bought them.

 

You 'sold' them because you couldn't afford the wages - as it was known when they were signed.

 

You can't rewrite history.

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trousers

trousers

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Posted

 

We felt it would be appropriate to make a statement to the club's supporters now that the summer transfer window is closed and we have completed our first three months of ownership.

 

As many of you will know, we are, by preference, private people and we have not sought the media limelight since we took over back in June. Instead, working alongside the management team and staff, we have focused our time and energy on addressing some of the issues that needed the most urgent attention at the club. The first of these has obviously been the playing squad.

 

When we took over the ownership of the club there were eight players under contract and this was the number one priority; to rebuild the squad with players that we own. We are pleased with the way in which the squad has been strengthened and built over the summer period and we now have a very good core of permanent players that can take the club forward this season. We also know there is still some further work to be done to strengthen the squad when the emergency loan window opens in order to ensure we have what is needed for the next four months of a demanding Championship season. Given the change in playing personnel, Steve and his team have made a solid start on the pitch – but we know there is more to come as they get used to playing together.

 

Away from the first team we have spent time with the Academy staff as well. We see the Academy as the lifeblood of the club's future and we are already looking for ways to ensure that the Academy can flourish under Andy Awford's supervision. Producing good young footballers who can progress through the club and into the first team is a vital part of regenerating the club from the bottom upwards. Part of the future plans for the Academy will be improved facilities for our young players, as well as a renewed focus on coaching and talent identification which is already under way for this season. We have to give special mention to the Academy's victory at Manchester United in their first game of the season and we hope that will provide a platform for a strong campaign and the further development of these players towards future first-team squad members.

 

We have also looked to make some improvements to other parts of the club, in particular with some ongoing work to Fratton Park which we hope will be noticed by all our supporters over the coming months. We want to make the experience of coming to watch Pompey as enjoyable as possible whether a corporate guest, lifelong season ticket holder or first-timer. This should be as much about a good day out and matchday experience as it is about the result on the pitch.

 

Over the coming months we will be refocusing on many of the commercial challenges with the appointment of a new Commercial Director. The economic climate is tough but we believe in the Pompey brand and we want to bring people back to the club both from the local business community and lifelong supporters.

 

Beyond that, we are currently working with our senior management team on developing our five- year plan for the club. We are here for the long term and it is vital that we put the building blocks in place for a period of growth and success right across the club. The staff and management have our full backing and commitment in this challenge.

 

Finally, but very importantly, we want to say thank you to you, the supporters of the club. You have made us feel very welcome in these first three months and we have enjoyed every minute of our experience so far, even in some of the more difficult moments! We need your support at every game, for every kick of the ball and for every difficult management decision – you are the club, and we want to take the club forward for you and the whole city of Portsmouth. We don't want to make any rash promises at this stage, but we do want to assure you that we are as determined as you are to put the pride back into this great club.

 

Play Up Pompey!

 

Vladimir, Roman and Chris

 

 

 

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70's Mike

70's Mike

Posted
Posted
We felt it would be appropriate to make a statement to the club's supporters now that the summer transfer window is closed and we have completed our first three months of ownership.

 

As many of you will know, we are, by preference, private people and we have not sought the media limelight since we took over back in June. Instead, working alongside the management team and staff, we have focused our time and energy on addressing some of the issues that needed the most urgent attention at the club. The first of these has obviously been the playing squad.

 

When we took over the ownership of the club there were eight players under contract and this was the number one priority; to rebuild the squad with players that we own. We are pleased with the way in which the squad has been strengthened and built over the summer period and we now have a very good core of permanent players that can take the club forward this season. We also know there is still some further work to be done to strengthen the squad when the emergency loan window opens in order to ensure we have what is needed for the next four months of a demanding Championship season. Given the change in playing personnel, Steve and his team have made a solid start on the pitch – but we know there is more to come as they get used to playing together.

 

Away from the first team we have spent time with the Academy staff as well. We see the Academy as the lifeblood of the club's future and we are already looking for ways to ensure that the Academy can flourish under Andy Awford's supervision. Producing good young footballers who can progress through the club and into the first team is a vital part of regenerating the club from the bottom upwards. Part of the future plans for the Academy will be improved facilities for our young players, as well as a renewed focus on coaching and talent identification which is already under way for this season. We have to give special mention to the Academy's victory at Manchester United in their first game of the season and we hope that will provide a platform for a strong campaign and the further development of these players towards future first-team squad members.

 

We have also looked to make some improvements to other parts of the club, in particular with some ongoing work to Fratton Park which we hope will be noticed by all our supporters over the coming months. We want to make the experience of coming to watch Pompey as enjoyable as possible whether a corporate guest, lifelong season ticket holder or first-timer. This should be as much about a good day out and matchday experience as it is about the result on the pitch.

 

Over the coming months we will be refocusing on many of the commercial challenges with the appointment of a new Commercial Director. The economic climate is tough but we believe in the Pompey brand and we want to bring people back to the club both from the local business community and lifelong supporters.

 

Beyond that, we are currently working with our senior management team on developing our five- year plan for the club. We are here for the long term and it is vital that we put the building blocks in place for a period of growth and success right across the club. The staff and management have our full backing and commitment in this challenge.

 

Finally, but very importantly, we want to say thank you to you, the supporters of the club. You have made us feel very welcome in these first three months and we have enjoyed every minute of our experience so far, even in some of the more difficult moments! We need your support at every game, for every kick of the ball and for every difficult management decision – you are the club, and we want to take the club forward for you and the whole city of Portsmouth. We don't want to make any rash promises at this stage, but we do want to assure you that we are as determined as you are to put the pride back into this great club.

 

Play Up Pompey!

 

Vladimir, Roman and Chris

 

 

 

 

lots of words but little concrete plans, looks like some painting company will be asked to take a chance and paint Fratton and then hope to get paid.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

You're not upset because you're morally outraged at what happened. You're upset because it was Pompey and you use it as an excuse to beat us with on here when, let's face it, NO-ONE ELSE CARES. Admit that and I might even find a bit of respect for you prima donnas.

 

Cue the cries of "just doesn't get it" ad nauseum

 

You just don't get it. And why can't we genuinely be morally outraged because of what happened AND because it was the Skates? It doesn't have to be one thing or the other, it can be both, you know. I know that just because your lot have the morals of an alley cat, you find it hard to understand that there are other fans who do actually have a social conscience, a code of conduct a moral compass, etc. We can genuinely feel sympathy for the cheated taxpayers, those charities and local businesses you stuffed, without accusations from such as you that those feelings are a sham, a cover for our hatred of your poxy little club.

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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
Jack, you don't normally come across as a stupid guy but as I've constantly posted links proving I never claimed either of these would happen maybe I'm wrong.

 

Here's an idea for the mods. To save everyone going over old ground, maybe there should be a sticky created, something along the lines of "Things dumbasses keep claiming CH has said but actually didn't"

 

We could have the Maradona/ Saviola/ Riquelme one, the one where I apparently claimed the Harbour stadium would definitely be built, the one about my "Transfer Gossip" posts being me believing Pompey would actually sign all those players, the one about me being serious about Fahim being 10 times wealthier than Abramovic, oh, the list could go on and on

 

 

 

We went into administration and got the points penalty. How were we treated leniently? You lot seem to think that because Luton got docked 30 points that we should have also. Never mind that the circumstances were completely different. We got docked 9 points because those are the rules of the league we were in. You got docked points because whatever you may say about "legally" etc etc SLH was almost exclusively SFC and your club agreed to abide by the rules of the private members club (the FL) that created the rules. It's laughable when you lot say that all you want is "justice". You don't. You want to see Pompey punished because we're your rival. Other clubs have gone into administration and paid creditors far less in the £ than we are but there's no hysterical screaming about them. Nor are you foaming at the mouth about clubs like Leicester and Ipswich who both went into admin and got their new stadiums effectively free. Funny that.

 

As for the "respect of the football world", WTF are you on about. Most football fans think we "did a Leeds", spent too much and went bust. There is no football wide consensus that we're cheats. We didn't win the cup because we cheated, buying players we couldn't afford. If that were the case other clubs who spent more than us would have won that year. We won because we had the luck of the draw, plain and simple.

 

You're not upset because you're morally outraged at what happened. You're upset because it was Pompey and you use it as an excuse to beat us with on here when, let's face it, NO-ONE ELSE CARES. Admit that and I might even find a bit of respect for you prima donnas.

 

Cue the cries of "just doesn't get it" ad nauseum

 

If you really do see your clubs situation in anyway similar to ours then there really is no point in trying to explain it to you once again. But please stop acting like you are surprised that we think you and your club are rotten to the core.

 

Its been spelt out more than enough times and you have completly ignored what has been said. Looks to me like you are jusst trolling for kicks and if thats the case then fair play as you have got more than enough reaction than you deserve. Thats it from me though. Was happy to try and sensibley debate with you but had enough now.

 

See ya

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Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted
lots of words but little concrete plans' date=' looks like some painting company will be asked to take a chance and paint Fratton and then hope to get paid.[/quote']

 

I thought much the same, although it does say that (like us) they also have formulated a 5 year plan. Does anybody actually know what this plan is and what targets they are aiming for?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
I thought much the same, although it does say that (like us) they also have formulated a 5 year plan. Does anybody actually know what this plan is and what targets they are aiming for?

 

The length of time it'll take for the parachute payments to end, and to squeeze every last penny out of the cesspit of a club, before it gets liquidated completely, and the rathole Krap Nottarf is demolished to make way for flats and a Tesco?

 

Come on Vladimir and Roman, you can do that quicker than in 5 years.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted

 

As for your fans "finding it hard to defend" your lot trying to weasel out of a points deduction, what a complete load of crap. This board was full of your fans saying it was an outrage and talking about legal action. If you want to talk about rewriting history, let's start there

 

:facepalm:

 

The rosy-cheeked bastard took us into administration 4 days after the cut-of date for the points carry-over to the next season. A blatant act of spite as his days were numbered at a club whose supporters (most of them anyway) detested him. The parent company trick to avoid a points penalty was his idea (probably to deflect fury for his disgraceful administration timing), and very few supporters, and almost certainly him, expected it to succeed.

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eurosaint

eurosaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time.

 

To check it out, she went to the Wall, and there he was, walking slowly up to the holy site.

 

She watched him pray, and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview.

 

"Pardon me Sir, I'm Rebecca Smith from CNN. What's your name?

 

"Morris Feinberg," he replied

 

"Sir, how long have you been coming to the Wailing Wall to pray?"

 

"For about 60 years."

 

"60 years! That's amazing! What do you pray for?"

 

"I pray for peace between the Christians, Jews and the Muslims."

 

"I pray for all the wars and all the hatred to stop."

 

"I pray for all our children to grow up safely as responsible adults, and to love their fellow man."

 

"And how do you feel Sir, after doing this for 60 years?"

 

"It's like talking to a f#cking brick wall" !

Edited by eurosaint
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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
I thought much the same, although it does say that (like us) they also have formulated a 5 year plan. Does anybody actually know what this plan is and what targets they are aiming for?

 

Yr 1 (2nd yr of CVA) - Ignore requests to pay it

Yr 2 (3rd yr of CVA) - Ensure phone & fax numbers changed. Don't pay it.

Yr 3 (4th yr of CVA) - Getting more confident now, just don't pay it

Yr 4 (5th yr of CVA) - Really confident now, tell all the creditors you can't afford it so they can all feck off.

Yr 5 Once they have got away with it then invest like mad with borrowed money.

 

Simples innit?

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
Jack, you don't normally come across as a stupid guy but as I've constantly posted links proving I never claimed either of these would happen maybe I'm wrong.

 

Here's an idea for the mods. To save everyone going over old ground, maybe there should be a sticky created, something along the lines of "Things dumbasses keep claiming CH has said but actually didn't"

We could have the Maradona/ Saviola/ Riquelme one, the one where I apparently claimed the Harbour stadium would definitely be built, the one about my "Transfer Gossip" posts being me believing Pompey would actually sign all those players, the one about me being serious about Fahim being 10 times wealthier than Abramovic, oh, the list could go on and on

 

 

 

We went into administration and got the points penalty. How were we treated leniently? You lot seem to think that because Luton got docked 30 points that we should have also. Never mind that the circumstances were completely different. We got docked 9 points because those are the rules of the league we were in. You got docked points because whatever you may say about "legally" etc etc SLH was almost exclusively SFC and your club agreed to abide by the rules of the private members club (the FL) that created the rules. It's laughable when you lot say that all you want is "justice". You don't. You want to see Pompey punished because we're your rival. Other clubs have gone into administration and paid creditors far less in the £ than we are but there's no hysterical screaming about them. Nor are you foaming at the mouth about clubs like Leicester and Ipswich who both went into admin and got their new stadiums effectively free. Funny that.

 

As for the "respect of the football world", WTF are you on about. Most football fans think we "did a Leeds", spent too much and went bust. There is no football wide consensus that we're cheats. We didn't win the cup because we cheated, buying players we couldn't afford. If that were the case other clubs who spent more than us would have won that year. We won because we had the luck of the draw, plain and simple.

 

You're not upset because you're morally outraged at what happened. You're upset because it was Pompey and you use it as an excuse to beat us with on here when, let's face it, NO-ONE ELSE CARES. Admit that and I might even find a bit of respect for you prima donnas.

 

Cue the cries of "just doesn't get it" ad nauseum

 

Corpulent...what you just don't get (amongst the plethora of things to do with your own vile institution) is that on here you are a figure of ridicule - Do you really think anyone on here invests enough importance in your drivel to give it a sticky?

 

Do you really think you have any credibility...anywhere?

 

Just keep proving as often as you like that you are as perfect a symbol of that diseased corpse of a club as the w*nker W*stwood...deluded, blind, discredited, petty, puerile, bankrupt of any moral credence and an all too easy-to-hit target for our abuse.

:facepalm::toppa:

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Huffton

Huffton

Posted
Posted
:facepalm:

 

The rosy-cheeked bastard took us into administration 4 days after the cut-of date for the points carry-over to the next season. A blatant act of spite as his days were numbered at a club whose supporters (most of them anyway) detested him.

 

How many more times does this need to be corrected? On the day of the cut off point, the club was solvent. Of all the things Rupert did wrong putting the company into admin wasn't one of them. It wasn't until a few days later when Barclays pulled the overdraft that the club became insolvent and the administrators were called in.

Of course this again cannot be compared to the DCFSBs as they had been trading insolvently for ages.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted
How many more times does this need to be corrected? On the day of the cut off point, the club was solvent. Of all the things Rupert did wrong putting the company into admin wasn't one of them. It wasn't until a few days later when Barclays pulled the overdraft that the club became insolvent and the administrators were called in.

Of course this again cannot be compared to the DCFSBs as they had been trading insolvently for ages.

 

Slight correction, the club were never in administration. The administrators were called into the Holding Company. The football club were able to continue trading with the goodwill of the creditors,supporters and most of all Leon Crouch.

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted
Yr 1 (2nd yr of CVA) - Ignore requests to pay it

Yr 2 (3rd yr of CVA) - Ensure phone & fax numbers changed. Don't pay it.

Yr 3 (4th yr of CVA) - Getting more confident now, just don't pay it

Yr 4 (5th yr of CVA) - Really confident now, tell all the creditors you can't afford it so they can all feck off.

Yr 5 Once they have got away with it then invest like mad with borrowed money.

 

Simples innit?

 

Yr 1 - Launder money

Yr 2 - Launder money

Yr 3 - Launder money

Yr 4 - Launder money

Yr 5 - Find some other Russian with a dodgy past to unload the stinking, rotting corpse onto.

 

Repeat, ad infinitum.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
How many more times does this need to be corrected? On the day of the cut off point, the club was solvent. Of all the things Rupert did wrong putting the company into admin wasn't one of them. It wasn't until a few days later when Barclays pulled the overdraft that the club became insolvent and the administrators were called in.

Of course this again cannot be compared to the DCFSBs as they had been trading insolvently for ages.

 

I hate to digress from Cheats FC bashing, but every club going into administration has been perfectly capable of timing it to within a reasonable time frame. One club (Leeds?) was even able to time it at half time of a match, when they only knew then that they were down.

 

Anyway, enough of that. We've got bigger fish to fry. Back to the DFCSBs ....

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HK_Phoey

HK_Phoey

Posted
Posted

The rules introducing a cut off date for administration were brought in precisely because Leeds net into administration at 1/2 time. They realized they would be relegated anyway so took the hit that year. The league realizing the loop hole closed it and we were the first club to which the new rules applied

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted

As for your fans "finding it hard to defend" your lot trying to weasel out of a points deduction, what a complete load of crap. This board was full of your fans saying it was an outrage and talking about legal action. If you want to talk about rewriting history, let's start there

 

I genuinely do not believe that very many, if any, fans were talking of taking legal action or calling it an outrage as I recall - cue Corpy trawling back through 2 years and more of posts to find one person saying just that - but we were p1ssed off about it, because of the huge consequences, and would have taken the loophole if offered. But the vast majority took it on the chin and moved on. You did effectively 'get away with it' on the points deduction because you were going down anyway, so it had no impact really.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
841 pages of trying to explain to Corp. We're in danger of appearing more stupid than him for not realising how redundant it is trying to reason with a troll.

 

Think this one read better for me, not wishing to put words into your mouth or anything.

 

Not completely unrelated to poopey here is an interesting article about Russian Football. Puts some context into Poopey's wages - 350k a week for Eto'o???

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/european-championships-2012/8740731/Russia-v-Republic-of-Ireland-vast-riches-propelling-the-unstoppable-rise-of-the-Russian-Premier-League.html

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
841 pages of trying to explain to Corp. We're in danger of appearing more stupid than him for not realising how redundant it is trying to reason with an idiot.

 

Don't invest the kn*b with that kind of credibility...he's just an nauseating little pair of tweezers out of a whole box of tools that provides us with an easy target for ridicule.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

For all of Copes' Rhetoric, there a a couple of interesting issues here... football by its nature, whether fans or media have very short memories... and have their darlings who can simply do no wrong. Remember the outrage over Leeds? The fishtank? made more headlines and promted more discussion amongst fans than the 60 mil of debt they wrote off to fund a Champions league season... yet for amny of their fans they still say its worth it... and they dont care that they were universally hated by everyone else... Pompey had a real asset during the initial stages of their over spend in Redflapps - the self proclaimed 'briiliant' wheeler dealer seen and forgiven by teh media as a loveable rogue with a vast football brain, even touted as the 'next' England manager - yet look at his record and it comes as no surprize that he has struggled to do very much without cash to spend... and tends to leave just before it all goes tits up, thus avoiding any stain on his reputation...Now he is quoted as saying he never knew anything about the finance at Portsmouth during his spending period, levaing that to the board... yet this sits at odds with his media comments during transfer windows when its quite clear he knows what is being spent, what 'value' is being placed on certian players and the bids they have 'refused'... who knows, but only an idiot would carry on spending if it was not fully clear that there was sufficient cash to pay for it...

 

Corp likes to say that we only go on about Portsmouth becuse they are our local rivals and its hurts more that they won a trophy on the back of this debt... I am happy to admit there is an element of truth in that, but its not the exclusive reason. I have since 2001/2 during online 606 debate and right throigh our own problems been trying to get a point across that football finance is something rotten. That clubs at all levels should be forced to live within their means, and this meant that many thought I was osme sort of 'Lowe Luvvie' because I agreed with his approach to the controlling the purse strings - for me the insignificant amounts of salaries and dividends relative to hat it cost to fund players and wages were worth it if it meant our club played by the financial rules governed, ironically not by the FA or PremL, but by the nature of being a PLC. For its faults (and there are many), the PLC status did mean we had open access to the annual reports and financial details, and as fans we could see exactly what was going on. So despite some of our fans making false claims of 'where's the money gone?' - the answer was clear - it paid the bills and tax and if we had a small profit, a small dividend. The status, also allowed us to approach approved and regulated financial institutions to take out a mortgage on a new stadium an investment that (despite criticism from some) meant we were far better placed to attract a decent new owner when we were in admin... SMS for all the jokes about 'meccano' would cost approx 100mil to buld now... so it was a timely investment.

 

... I have an issue with ANY club that blows money it cant not really afford in an attempt to get a competitive advantage. We have done done it, under Crouch and Wilde albeit cash we had in the bank at the time, that in my opinion should have been saved for a rainy day... sure we as fans were not united on this, many felt it was right because that was what was needed to try and get us back in them. I disagree and stand by that, even if it meant it reinforced the 'Lowe Luvvie' tag, as misguided and as wrong as that was.... you see Corp... these very issues in which you accuse us of double standards and hypocrisy were debated, often fiercely, and often venomous, on here by fans from both sides. It was often not pleasant, but many felt itr was necessary and with the benefit of hindsight, there are npow many more who would perhaps see that those opposing the fan friendly spending approach actually had a point.

 

As with Leeds, Pompey and now Leicester and to some extent a Skint West Ham, I find the absence of a strong debate both amongst fans and in the media about the merits of what they are doing, astonishing. The media ignore it, afterall WHU had all those WC winners, Leicester have Sven who is a good for a story, Pompey ahd Harry who is a darling... and even Leeds...well with Leeds it seemed that perhaps there were many old school types who still had a soft spot for them and tehy way they played the 'beautiful game' of old - our game, tough hard etc, not this poncy Euro passing nonsensce... But why are there not now thousands of Pompey fans (who even if forgiven for not thinking about it at the time), who genuinely want answers, acknowledge that it was WRONG and want to get back to a fair and honest approach to building for success? Where are they all? - To me that says more about how rotten football finance has become than anaything else. Fans seem disengaged from how their clubs are run, as long as the results are right - Corp is right, its not just Pompey fasn its the fans at Leicester, etc now... If as the 'uber fans like to say' 'fans are the club' then surely tehy should be interseted in this stuff and not just results?

 

Whatever, you say Corp, you have to acknowledge that your 'punishment' is hardly one that is equitable with the 'crimes' - even if that is what the rules say, morally and ethically you 'got away with it' as did Leeds, Leicester etc... We did as well... but only because we attracted a new ethical investor... someone who ensured the first thing that wwas done was creditor agreements were paid... but someone who saw VALUE in Saints in no small part because historically we hade been run in such a way that our infrastructure was in place and had not skunked someone elses money on transfers and wages in attempts to stay in a division or win something... indeed in order to try and pay the bills on relegation, we stripped out the team, played kids and TRIED to put it right... and that is where we can say we have the moral high ground. Now I dont think you are as daft as some of these fellow posters make out, but if you dont or cant acknowledge that, then it suggests you really are... I dont believe so, so come on prove me right?

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holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
we attracted a new ethical investor... someone who ensured the first thing that wwas done was creditor agreements were paid...

 

What an excellent piece Frank. It may be wasted on Corporate however, despite the fact you have addressed him in a diplomatic and polite manner, he will just discredit it and disrespect you by picking one small fragment of your post and argue the toss of it untill everyone gets bored of his repitition.

 

Hence why I simply go for the name calling and ****taking - its the way forward.

 

Dirty, dirty skates... TCWTB, the Pride of Pompey!

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Corporate Ho

Corporate Ho

Posted
Posted

FC, I’m always happy to debate things sensibly. The problem on this forum is that whatever I say Saints posters automatically take the opposite stance. Very few (if any) actually take the time to read and digest to understand the points I make. So I’ll take your points one by one and then read the follow up posts saying “skate **** just doesn’t get it blah blah blah”.

I agree with your statement that finance in football is rotten. But to say that your overspending was debated on the form so it’s not hypocritical/ double standards can be countered by the fact that the Pompey boards saw plenty of similar debate during Gaydamak’s reign. Many questioned whether we could afford it while others were calling for the money to be invested in the infrastructure of the club instead of players. So, does that exonerate Pompey fans in your eyes? I saw no protests or boycotts from Saints fans when you were trying to buy your way back to the PL and that’s why I always say it’s hypocritical of your fans to slam Pompey. I know you had the “money in the bank” but as you rightly say, it was money you couldn’t afford to spend. The hypocrisy charge also stands against your fans because other teams that you highlight have done the same as Pompey but don’t seem to have 840 odd pages devoted to their wrongdoing. Perhaps I’ve missed those threads somehow. There are constant accusations on here that the rest of football hold us in contempt for what we did. The fact that you claim there’s no debate about Leeds, WHU, Leicester (and all the others) who are doing the same thing would seem to strongly suggest that there is no football wide condemnation. That most fans (Saints fans excepted) just think we overspent and got relegated.

I work for a big company with fans of many different teams and whilst there’s plenty of banter but no-one thinks we cheated, just that we “did a Leeds” and got relegated. In their eyes that’s “punishment” enough. I’m not sure why the punishment isn’t equitable with the “crimes”. We belong/ed to a private members club and we abided by the rules of the competition. Yes it’s sad that local businesses lost money and that HMRC lost out but we paid the penalties that our “members club” had stipulated. Your fans still constantly blame Lowe for not putting you into admin earlier to avoid the points penalty you got for the following season so that again seems to smack of hypocrisy and that your claims that Pompey weren’t “punished” enough are in direct correlation to the penalty you incurred – ie that we did what you wanted Lowe to do and went into administration early enough to avoid a points penalty for the following season. There’s also the constant cries that “legally” it wasn’t the club that went into admin and you shouldn’t have had the points penalty. Again, those were the rules applied by the members club that you belonged to. “Legally” we could have decided to only pay football creditors 20p in the £ along with the others, but that’s not the rules we agreed to abide to. Your point about Liebherr is a good one. It was great that he decided to pay your creditors straight off (although it’s been said on here plenty of times that they certainly didn’t get 100P in the £ so your creditors lost out too) but your status now is a matter of luck. Yes you had a decent infrastructure but it was chance that Liebherr bought you. It could just as easily have been SISU and you could now be staring a second administration in the face. Would that make you cheats? Or would it mean you’d been subject to a bout of mismanagement? You tell me. Your last set of accounts showed you lost £7m that year and had debts of £22m. There seem to be a few people pointing that out but most Saints fans seem to be of the opinion that “we’re loaded, doesn’t matter”. Of course Liebherr’s estate may change those loans/ debts into equity but you don’t know that. Didn’t seem to stop your fans calling for you to spend £6m on Maynard or Rodriguez.

Pompey overspent but so do 90% of clubs in the PL. Two wrongs don’t make a right but to single us out does seem hypocritical and adds weight to my argument that if it was another club the debate on here would have died a long time ago (if it had ever started). We didn’t “cheat” to win the cup any more than most other teams and we didn’t win the cup because of the players we bought. We won it because of a set of freak results that’s saw all the big clubs out before the semi final stage. The way the draw opened up probably won’t happen again for years and we benefited from that. As for “cutting our cloth” I’ve already posted on that last week. Our last year in the PL saw us sell £43m worth of players and release another 12-15 players before the season started. Yes we brought a few players in but what else should we have done? That money and the money we pulled in before that (£18m for Diarra, £16m for Defoe, £13m for Muntari and on and on) was more than enough to address the debt levels but somehow that money was diverted elsewhere. And before anyone says we carried on spending, our transfer dealings for the last two years in the PL saw us make a profit on player trading of £59m! Yes it’s wrong HMRC and the other creditors lost out but “Pompey” didn’t cheat them, certain individuals who made a lot of money bleeding money out of the club did.

Cue “just doesn’t get it”.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

I think you'll find the few are still doing the arrogantembrace the cup win, ignore how it was financed thang.

And with respect Ho, please don't pretend this isn't the case, we don't need another rewrite of history - just because you keep typing it doesn't mean you have altered the past.

 

The club was in legal trouble as soon as Mandaric's sale misled the football authorities - the child-maimer's deception that was later acknowledged by Storrie himself, was a deliberate act to pump money into a club for gain on the pitch.

Why pretend you weren't the owner if it was all above board?

 

The cup wasn't about a lucky draw, it was about overspending by an owner who pretended he wasn't the real owner to get around FaPP tests.

The eventual and completely predictable collapse wasn't about a sudden withdrawal of funding, it was about longterm massive overspending and incredibly poor and potentially criminal management.

The financial planning was that of a retarded five year old - paying Champions League wages on League One income from a League Two 'arena'??

 

Is it about rivalry?

Yep.

Would we highlight it if we weren't Saints fans?

Oh yes, it's flicking the Vs at football and that annoys fans of all persuasions and if you think no one else cares you need to get out more and hear what is said all over the country about a club that is still to address debts.

 

It just makes it funnier that it is our rivals with their bestest fans, massive support base, sleeping giant, biggest team on the south coast claims with their Fortress Fratton, and their siege mentality that mighty Barnet found so petrifying.

We take the mick out of Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal - any club that thinks it is bigger than it really is gets stick - and pompey sit very nicely in that role.

Perhaps a little more humility might be in order?

I said on here before that I got sense out of W******d when I ran into him (sober) - he just wants his club back, in whatever division - he didn't come up with any of the fantasy pompey stuff that appears on here.

 

So it is the gobby fans and the club attitude that annoys ALL football fans - some things are not worth defending - that is why you are often the only pompey fan on here trying.

 

We have to delay the CVA because we have no money - oh, and how much for your striker?

The facts clearly suggest the club is still being run in a shabby manner, and is still trying to pretend there are no creditors or debt - any pompey fans who follow that spin are VERY dim or not football fans.

 

And those parachute payments are being frittered away every day - the next search for a rich new owner will have to start soon.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted
I agree with your statement that finance in football is rotten. But to say that your overspending was debated on the form so it’s not hypocritical/ double standards can be countered by the fact that the Pompey boards saw plenty of similar debate during Gaydamak’s reign. Many questioned whether we could afford it while others were calling for the money to be invested in the infrastructure of the club instead of players. So, does that exonerate Pompey fans in your eyes?

 

YES it would, however, the impression given post cup win and also following admin, was that the majority felt hard done by... this may well as you say be biassed based on those fans being more vocal, or the fact that there were not many dissenters visable during th cup parade......

 

I saw no protests or boycotts from Saints fans when you were trying to buy your way back to the PL and that’s why I always say it’s hypocritical of your fans to slam Pompey. I know you had the “money in the bank” but as you rightly say, it was money you couldn’t afford to spend.

 

This seems a contradiction, as you say no one protested, bur as I have stated we had a huge debate on this very isssue on this very site

 

 

The hypocrisy charge also stands against your fans because other teams that you highlight have done the same as Pompey but don’t seem to have 840 odd pages devoted to their wrongdoing. Perhaps I’ve missed those threads somehow.

 

you have to acknowledge that given the intense rivalry, there was always going to be a focus on Pompey over this... but as I and others have said, we acknowledge you are not unique in that, we have been critical of other clubs... etc, but given the rivalry and teh size of your debt, it was always going to be of interest and schardenfreude

 

There are constant accusations on here that the rest of football hold us in contempt for what we did.

 

I have not said this - in fact I would say its actually an indictment of football in general that most of football and the media does NOT give a flying feck or is calling for better regulation and controls following this whole episode....

 

 

We belong/ed to a private members club and we abided by the rules of the competition.

 

And there in lies the problem - the rules... Yes as you point out, the rules as they are allow for a club to get itself into 120 mil of debt, and had for quite some time not paid teh HMRC, or suppliers and had on several occasions already failed to pay wages....and yet the punishment is the same as a club that was 4 mil in debt, never missed a HMRC payment, never missed paying bills or wages and had indeed done all it could to rectify Whjat I and many others also consider to be wrong by playing kids despite what this might do to our Championship status... one of the reasons I and other have been critical is simply because despite it all being within the 'rules', majority of pompey fans use thsi to suggest that there is no ethical and moral issue at hand... I will and continue to argue that there is a difference, even if the rules say otherwise. The rules as we know and I am sure you would acknowledge, should be strong enough that a) a club cannot get into that level of debt yet still be buying players and paying wages beyond its means and b) for those that continue to do be harsh enough to act as a proper deterrent

 

Your fans still constantly blame Lowe for not putting you into admin earlier to avoid the points penalty you got for the following season so that again seems to smack of hypocrisy and that your claims that Pompey weren’t “punished” enough are in direct correlation to the penalty you incurred – ie that we did what you wanted Lowe to do and went into administration early enough to avoid a points penalty for the following season.

 

Not strichtly true... again he debate raged, the CLUB (Lowe) wanted to avoid admin at all costs which was why were playing kids - as a result the overdraft had been reduced from 6 to 4 mil and was continuing to be reduced. Sure many fans were angry that this meant we were crap and would be relegated and hated Lowe blaming him for 'taking us into admin too late' - which was not actually the case as the administrators were called in only when there was a legal obligation to do so following the refusal of the bank to pay a 4K payment - Yes some fans wished we had avoided the points penalty - and some supported the argument that maybe within the rules avoid it as it was SLH that went into admin - had this happened before Wilde and CRouch sold off the radio sation and insurance services it may well have been a reasonable case, but after that was done the club was indeed the only trading element of SLH... however, there were still many on here that were accepting of the penalty and moved on... and now I think teh vast majority accept it was right and proper that we were penalised

 

Your point about Liebherr is a good one. It was great that he decided to pay your creditors straight off (although it’s been said on here plenty of times that they certainly didn’t get 100P in the £ so your creditors lost out too) but your status now is a matter of luck. Yes you had a decent infrastructure but it was chance that Liebherr bought you. It could just as easily have been SISU and you could now be staring a second administration in the face. Would that make you cheats? Or would it mean you’d been subject to a bout of mismanagement? You tell me.

 

In a way it would, had we continued to build further debt through accounting practices that allowed it BEFORE we had fulfilled the terms of our obligations to creditors... and I would have been very vocal about this as would quite a few others.

 

that Your last set of accounts showed you lost £7m that year and had debts of £22m. There seem to be a few people pointing that out but most Saints fans seem to be of the opinion that “we’re loaded, doesn’t matter”. Of course Liebherr’s estate may change those loans/ debts into equity but you don’t know that. Didn’t seem to stop your fans calling for you to spend £6m on Maynard or Rodriguez.[/color]

 

This is indeed an issue for some of us - but looking at it pragmatically, from what we know, the 15 mil initial investment to purchase the club has indeed been classed as a loan from the ML estate.. but it was also mentioned that interest free cash loans would be avaiable for infrastructure improvements such as teh 6 mil investment in the training complex and academy - I am pretty confident that this is an accounting procedure as ML is known for building businesses through self funding and not outside debt. Sure I do not have all the answers here, but given the reputation for ethical business practice that ML had it does not concern me at this time

 

Pompey overspent but so do 90% of clubs in the PL. Two wrongs don’t make a right but to single us out does seem hypocritical and adds weight to my argument that if it was another club the debate on here would have died a long time ago (if it had ever started).

 

I have been as critical of all clubs funding squad improvements through debt from the start - for me it is a form of cheating as it provides a competitive advantage - and its also a reason why we got relegated from the prem in the first place as we did not do it

 

We didn’t “cheat” to win the cup any more than most other teams and we didn’t win the cup because of the players we bought. We won it because of a set of freak results that’s saw all the big clubs out before the semi final stage. The way the draw opened up probably won’t happen again for years and we benefited from that.

 

Yes but your prem status and finishing position could be attributed to that... the cup thing is a banter thing really, but teh players you had did play in that as awell...

 

As for “cutting our cloth” I’ve already posted on that last week. Our last year in the PL saw us sell £43m worth of players and release another 12-15 players before the season started. Yes we brought a few players in but what else should we have done? That money and the money we pulled in before that (£18m for Diarra, £16m for Defoe, £13m for Muntari and on and on) was more than enough to address the debt levels but somehow that money was diverted elsewhere.

 

Elsewhere? where? If not known, then this woudl be a financial irregularity that should be investigated and punishments given if something was wrong... and yes as we have seen with Luton, this is part of the club and should be seen as such as 'harsh' as it may seem to fans

 

And before anyone says we carried on spending, our transfer dealings for the last two years in the PL saw us make a profit on player trading of £59m! Yes it’s wrong HMRC and the other creditors lost out but “Pompey” didn’t cheat them, certain individuals who made a lot of money bleeding money out of the club did.

 

But these individuals through their actions, irrespective of any wrong doing after the fact, ran the club in such a way that for a period of time you were able to secure premiership status through the acquisition of players that should have been beyond your means at that time... and that is what i have a problem with. Yes I have sympathy that fans in general dont control such things, but you need to acknowledge that if you are willing to enjoy the results of that approach, that the club as a whole need to accept the consequences?

 

Cue “just doesn’t get it”.

 

OK but you have not made it easy on yourself. I agree that its not always possible to hold a rational debate on these issues, but you have to acknowledge that you have not always helped yourself in that regard?

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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
OK but you have not made it easy on yourself. I agree that its not always possible to hold a rational debate on these issues' date=' but you have to acknowledge that you have not always helped yourself in that regard?[/i']

 

I realy dont think its worth the effort FC. He seems to think that because on paper they made a profit on sales and they dont know where the money went its all OK. If they got to £70m in debt and were not trading insolvently then they would of been servicing the debt and paying their way with no problems from anyone. Manu are in lots of debt but they service it while paying all other bills. Pompey were in feffect creating more debt to keep them afloat and it wasnt even paying the bills or sevicing the debt. At some point in that someone must of thought they were trading insolvent but carried on regardless.

 

At what point was that? When was the date that they should of looked at their accounts and thought.... we're in the poo here!

 

To almost double up the debt again on a road trip to another cup final and not think there is a bit of cheating going on somewhere is mind boggling. And the answer to reduce costs to try and survive was to shed the high earners.... good move.... but then to shed anyone who doesnt cost much and replace them with people who cost alot more just smacks of lunacy.

 

But its all OK cause the FL said so :facepalm: I bet the FL didnt know half the stuff that the forensic investigation will be looking at. Wether any of it is illegal or not remains to be seen but as more and more came out it became harder to understand how the FL rubber stamped it all. They may be hoping the investigation doesnt find anything too as it would make their actions more questionable.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
The hypocrisy charge also stands against your fans because other teams that you highlight have done the same as Pompey but don’t seem to have 840 odd pages devoted to their wrongdoing.

 

But have they been in administration 3 times, twice in the last 13 years! you've been running at a loss since then in one form or another, and you are still spending money, whilst those you owe, have to wait, adds up to cheating in my book.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
For all of Copes' Rhetoric, there a a couple of interesting issues here... football by its nature, whether fans or media have very short memories... and have their darlings who can simply do no wrong......

Now I dont think you are as daft as some of these fellow posters make out, but if you dont or cant acknowledge that, then it suggests you really are... I dont believe so, so come on prove me right?

 

What an excellent piece Frank. It may be wasted on Corporate however, despite the fact you have addressed him in a diplomatic and polite manner, he will just discredit it and disrespect you by picking one small fragment of your post and argue the toss of it untill everyone gets bored of his repitition.

 

Hence why I simply go for the name calling and ****taking - its the way forward.

 

Dirty, dirty skates... TCWTB, the Pride of Pompey!

 

I think you'll find the few are still doing the arrogantembrace the cup win, ignore how it was financed thang.

And with respect Ho, please don't pretend this isn't the case, we don't need another rewrite of history - just because you keep typing it doesn't mean you have altered the past.

 

The club was in legal trouble as soon as Mandaric's sale misled the football authorities - the child-maimer's deception that was later acknowledged by Storrie himself, was a deliberate act to pump money into a club for gain on the pitch.

Why pretend you weren't the owner if it was all above board?

 

The cup wasn't about a lucky draw, it was about overspending by an owner who pretended he wasn't the real owner to get around FaPP tests.

The eventual and completely predictable collapse wasn't about a sudden withdrawal of funding, it was about longterm massive overspending and incredibly poor and potentially criminal management.

The financial planning was that of a retarded five year old - paying Champions League wages on League One income from a League Two 'arena'??

 

Is it about rivalry?

Yep.

Would we highlight it if we weren't Saints fans?

Oh yes, it's flicking the Vs at football and that annoys fans of all persuasions and if you think no one else cares you need to get out more and hear what is said all over the country about a club that is still to address debts.

 

It just makes it funnier that it is our rivals with their bestest fans, massive support base, sleeping giant, biggest team on the south coast claims with their Fortress Fratton, and their siege mentality that mighty Barnet found so petrifying.

We take the mick out of Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal - any club that thinks it is bigger than it really is gets stick - and pompey sit very nicely in that role.

Perhaps a little more humility might be in order?

I said on here before that I got sense out of W******d when I ran into him (sober) - he just wants his club back, in whatever division - he didn't come up with any of the fantasy pompey stuff that appears on here.

 

So it is the gobby fans and the club attitude that annoys ALL football fans - some things are not worth defending - that is why you are often the only pompey fan on here trying.

 

We have to delay the CVA because we have no money - oh, and how much for your striker?

The facts clearly suggest the club is still being run in a shabby manner, and is still trying to pretend there are no creditors or debt - any pompey fans who follow that spin are VERY dim or not football fans.

 

And those parachute payments are being frittered away every day - the next search for a rich new owner will have to start soon.

 

See Corp Ho ho ho, I'm having this massive debate with a 'ammer, at the moment, he acknowledges that his club are 110million pounds in debt, but he doesn't give a stuff, as all he wants is PL football.Sound familiar to you and your ilk?

 

Companies house will tell you that for the accounts year ending June 07, Pompey were nearly £70 million in debt when Gaydamak was still in charge

 

I realy dont think its worth the effort FC. He seems to think that because on paper they made a profit on sales and they dont know where the money went its all OK. If they got to £70m in debt and were not trading insolvently then they would of been servicing the debt and paying their way with no problems from anyone. Manu are in lots of debt but they service it while paying all other bills. Pompey were in feffect creating more debt to keep them afloat and it wasnt even paying the bills or sevicing the debt. At some point in that someone must of thought they were trading insolvent but carried on regardless.

 

At what point was that? When was the date that they should of looked at their accounts and thought.... we're in the poo here!

 

To almost double up the debt again on a road trip to another cup final and not think there is a bit of cheating going on somewhere is mind boggling. And the answer to reduce costs to try and survive was to shed the high earners.... good move.... but then to shed anyone who doesnt cost much and replace them with people who cost alot more just smacks of lunacy.

 

But its all OK cause the FL said so :facepalm: I bet the FL didnt know half the stuff that the forensic investigation will be looking at. Wether any of it is illegal or not remains to be seen but as more and more came out it became harder to understand how the FL rubber stamped it all. They may be hoping the investigation doesnt find anything too as it would make their actions more questionable.

 

Gentlemen....this particular skate Just. Doesn't. Get. It.

 

But many of us do, as laid out by adriansfc:

 

841 pages of trying to explain to Corp. We're in danger of appearing more stupid than him for not realising how redundant it is trying to reason with an idiot.

 

I went in search of the exact phrasing of this saying:

 

Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

But I found far more salient descriptions and sayings pertinent to the Whore

 

http://www.togetherweteach.com/MoreSayings/hey,_stupid.htm

 

He'll be back for more though.

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-80185/Lady-V-goes-business.html

 

The liquidator, Andrew Andronikou, of Hacker, Young and Partners, said it was 'perfectly normal' for small businesses to go bust, without paying their creditors back.

 

He said: ' The business traded as a limited liability company. She was not trading under own name, but as Akademi's parent company, Boutique 21.

 

'That meant that if the company incurred debts she could not be held responsible for those debts.

 

'The creditors will not be paid back, but the designers who supplied her all knew it was a limited liability company.'

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