Pompey Takeover Saga

[saintjay77]

http://www.uhy-uk.com/media/download/portsmouth%20reports/Final%20progress%20report.pdf

Portsmouth City Football Club Limited

Final Progress Report to Creditors

18

Transfer fees £17,303,818

Players’ bonuses £1,250,638

Ex‐Players’ Compromise Agreements £785,000

Players’ Image Rights £1,504,151

Employee Benefit Trust £1,540,000

As you are aware, a number of football clubs were owed monies in respect of transfer fees and have

been paid directly by the PL from current parachute payments.

The PL previously advised that the football creditor category consists of football clubs and players/

staff, in respect of wages only.PFC10 are currently reaching agreements with all players and former players in respect of their

outstanding bonuses whereby they will be paid off over a period of time.

At this stage it is not believed that Ex‐Player Compromise Agreements, Image Rights or Employee

Benefit Trusts are classed as football creditors. This will be reviewed further by the duly appointed

Liquidator.

 

Ah so its not been actually decided then. Its just them lot bending the rule book in the direction that suits them best at that particular time. When the votes were needed they were all football creditors. When there is money to be paid out they are not.

 

With the liquidators being a different firm at least there will be a fair shot at the truth coming out. I doubt anything they find will allow HMRC to back track and strike the extra votes off and even if they could it would be worthless as the time bought has already been spent. It might allow for future penaltys to be easier to give but I doubt there will be any kind of back lash for it.

 

HMRC's case of the football creditors rule might just make that rule more clearer and actions from it simpler to follow for all.

 

Could do with that getting done a bit quicker IMO.

[Doctoroncall]

They won't be going up. They have a small squad and wil get knackered. Look at our position and we are not confident about going up......

 

Comments about the game versus Sheffield Utd already say they are at that point. With games against in-form Bristol City tomorrow, promotion chasing Leicester, Reading, Burney, Cardiff, Swansea and Norwich it would be an amazing achievement to get to the play-offs.

[JackFrost]

Comments about the game versus Sheffield Utd already say they are at that point. With games against in-form Bristol City tomorrow, promotion chasing Leicester, Reading, Burney, Cardiff, Swansea and Norwich it would be an amazing achievement to get to the play-offs.

 

I was speaking to 4 skate supporting mates last night and they said Sheffield Utd completely dominated the game against them, the game before that Scunny had a goal harshly disallowed to go 1-0 up. As whenever one of my mates attends an away game they always lose, and he's going to Bristol I think their luck is about to run out

[dubai_phil]

http://www.uhy-uk.com/media/download/portsmouth%20reports/Final%20progress%20report.pdf

Portsmouth City Football Club Limited

Final Progress Report to Creditors

18

Transfer fees £17,303,818

Players’ bonuses £1,250,638

Ex‐Players’ Compromise Agreements £785,000

Players’ Image Rights £1,504,151

Employee Benefit Trust £1,540,000

As you are aware, a number of football clubs were owed monies in respect of transfer fees and have

been paid directly by the PL from current parachute payments.

The PL previously advised that the football creditor category consists of football clubs and players/

staff, in respect of wages only.PFC10 are currently reaching agreements with all players and former players in respect of their

outstanding bonuses whereby they will be paid off over a period of time.

At this stage it is not believed that Ex‐Player Compromise Agreements, Image Rights or Employee

Benefit Trusts are classed as football creditors. This will be reviewed further by the duly appointed

Liquidator.

 

Ah ha, so 17mil of transfer fees owed from this appear to have been paid by the PL directly from Parachute payments

 

Still do not see any comment in this excerpt about any Agents Fees (one source of dispute) but another 5mil of dues to players not paid from parachute, so 22mil of year one parachute money gone. left them with 6mil (If my fag packet maths is right

 

Then Chinny is charging 20% interest and then the Admin costs, so basically they had no parachute this year AND there doesn't appear to have been enough to pay Chinny back any of his loan capital this year. So next year more interest and still capital repayments to make.

 

They REALLY have to go up don't they

[Minsk]

Ah ha, so 17mil of transfer fees owed from this appear to have been paid by the PL directly from Parachute payments

 

Still do not see any comment in this excerpt about any Agents Fees (one source of dispute) but another 5mil of dues to players not paid from parachute, so 22mil of year one parachute money gone. left them with 6mil (If my fag packet maths is right

 

Then Chinny is charging 20% interest and then the Admin costs, so basically they had no parachute this year AND there doesn't appear to have been enough to pay Chinny back any of his loan capital this year. So next year more interest and still capital repayments to make.

 

They REALLY have to go up don't they

 

But parachute is 16m for years 1 and 2; and they had 11m of the first one advanced last January.

 

So if 17m of parachute was used to pay outstanding transfer fees + 11m advance = 28m before any of it was used on the most expensive squad (or is it first 11?) in the CC.

 

This would mean they must have almost used up all 4 years worth by now.

 

Surely it couldn't be that bad? (Although I really do hope it is!)

[Islander]

Question about parachute payments. Teams that get relegated get four years of payments to 'soften the blow', so what happens when a team goes up again during that 4 years? Do they forefit the subsequent payments? And then what if they then get relegated for a second time also within that four years? Will they get another four years of payments?

Perhaps they should have left it at 2 years.

[Minsk]

Question about parachute payments. Teams that get relegated get four years of payments to 'soften the blow', so what happens when a team goes up again during that 4 years? Do they forefit the subsequent payments? And then what if they then get relegated for a second time also within that four years? Will they get another four years of payments?

Perhaps they should have left it at 2 years.

 

If I remeber correctly, should a team get promoted back to the prem any outstanding parachute payments due to them are divided between the rest of the teams in the CC.

 

I would imagine that if any of said payments have been advanced these monies would be deducted from their PL payments.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

http://www.uhy-uk.com/media/download/portsmouth%20reports/Final%20progress%20report.pdf

Portsmouth City Football Club Limited

Final Progress Report to Creditors

18

Transfer fees £17,303,818

Players’ bonuses £1,250,638

Ex‐Players’ Compromise Agreements £785,000

Players’ Image Rights £1,504,151

Employee Benefit Trust £1,540,000

As you are aware, a number of football clubs were owed monies in respect of transfer fees and have

been paid directly by the PL from current parachute payments.

The PL previously advised that the football creditor category consists of football clubs and players/

staff, in respect of wages only.PFC10 are currently reaching agreements with all players and former players in respect of their

outstanding bonuses whereby they will be paid off over a period of time.

At this stage it is not believed that Ex‐Player Compromise Agreements, Image Rights or Employee

Benefit Trusts are classed as football creditors. This will be reviewed further by the duly appointed

Liquidator.

 

If they are not football debts the surely, as such, they should be treated like all the other debts? I.E. paid @ 20p (yeah right) in the pound. The club cannot now say this debt can be set over or above those debts they owe to this country or the general public. These debts, like the rest, should be paid pro rata. Therefore the extra (some 80%) should be accounted for in the C.V.A.

 

Of course that's not going to happen is it?

[benjii]

I don't think they are saying that the bonuses are not football creditor payments. I think what they are saying is that they are trying to get the players to agree to accept payment in installments. Which is somewhat telling, if true, as it would suggest there is no more parachute money to go around at the moment.

 

In any event, it is also clear that the issue is being parked for the liquidator to investigate so it should be handled properly.

[bridge too far]

If I remeber correctly, should a team get promoted back to the prem any outstanding parachute payments due to them are divided between the rest of the teams in the CC.

 

I would imagine that if any of said payments have been advanced these monies would be deducted from their PL payments.

 

I think this is what happened to Birmingham's money when they went straight back up.

[Crab Lungs]

I think this is what happened to Birmingham's money when they went straight back up.

 

What are the odds if the Skates go up, they'll contest that too - and end up with both?

[Whitey Grandad]

I think this is what happened to Birmingham's money when they went straight back up.

 

Correct

[Dark Munster]

Ah ha, so 17mil of transfer fees owed from this appear to have been paid by the PL directly from Parachute payments

 

Still do not see any comment in this excerpt about any Agents Fees (one source of dispute) but another 5mil of dues to players not paid from parachute, so 22mil of year one parachute money gone. left them with 6mil (If my fag packet maths is right

 

Then Chinny is charging 20% interest and then the Admin costs, so basically they had no parachute this year AND there doesn't appear to have been enough to pay Chinny back any of his loan capital this year. So next year more interest and still capital repayments to make.

 

They REALLY have to go up don't they

 

Yep.

 

Their current 6 game win streak reminds me of a desperate swimmer being chased by sharks, achieving a world record speed for a few hundred metres as he races toward the shore. But he'll be knackered (and eaten) before he reaches safety.

Edited 8 March, 2011 by Dark Munster

[rallyboy]

chased by sharks? They are owned by sharks!

Who'd have thought getting into bed with organised crime and people who make their living selling landmines or loaning cash could get you into trouble...

 

Their run is very impressive, that has to be said - but how long can the threadbare, down to the bones, plucky little squad stay lucky?

 

Maybe the wheels will come off the highest paid XI's charge just when they get within touching distance - that's the risk you take when you deliberately choose quality over quantity.

But on current form Lampitt and Cotterill's decision may yet prove to be inspired,

 

 

 

 

or commercially suicidal.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

chased by sharks? They are owned by sharks!

Who'd have thought getting into bed with organised crime and people who make their living selling landmines or loaning cash could get you into trouble...

 

Their run is very impressive, that has to be said - but how long can the threadbare, down to the bones, plucky little squad stay lucky?

 

Maybe the wheels will come off the highest paid XI's charge just when they get within touching distance - that's the risk you take when you deliberately choose quality over quantity.

But on current form Lampitt and Cotterill's decision may yet prove to be inspired,

 

 

 

 

or commercially suicidal.

 

SC , interviewed on Solent, says that they cannot go on just having loans. That they need more permanent players.

 

Just wonder if he's totally happy with the scenario?

[Crab Lungs]

A little reminder (as if you needed one) of the passion (bordering on 'rabid passion') the blue few have:

 

[Gemmel]

Thanks Lungs, straight into the top ten you tube greatest ever clips.

 

I'm not normally one to moan about what my taxes are spent on, but surely we have to draw the line somewhere.

[Crab Lungs]

I posted this a few pages back, but this is a personal favourite:

 

They may call us Scum but they're only deflecting the obvious.

 

Even the soundtrack sounds like something you tarmac a drive to

[benjii]

Told you they wouldn't make the play-offs!

[dubai_phil]

Oh dear, 'ow sad, never mind

[Minsk]

I was speaking to 4 skate supporting mates last night and they said Sheffield Utd completely dominated the game against them, the game before that Scunny had a goal harshly disallowed to go 1-0 up. As whenever one of my mates attends an away game they always lose, and he's going to Bristol I think their luck is about to run out

 

I suggest you pay for your mate's tickets to the rest of their away games!!!

[suewhistle]

Just had a look at their table - snortle. [A cross between a snort and a chortle with a hint of snig ger]

[JackFrost]

So long as the likes of Leeds, Burnley and forest match their results over the coming weeks they won't stand a chance

[Weston Super Saint]

So, with 10 games to go, they need to average 1 point per game MORE than those in the top six, just to have a stab at a 1 in 4 chance of getting promoted.

 

Assuming the top six win 6 more games each - 18 points - then the Skates will need a minimum of 28 points from 10 games [9 wins and 1 draw].

 

Toast is my verdict and a severely painful death.

 

Anyway, how are those four [or five, they're not quite sure!] potential suitors shaping up? It seems to have gone a little quiet on the selling the club front during their last few victories!

[Dark Munster]

So, with 10 games to go, they need to average 1 point per game MORE than those in the top six, just to have a stab at a 1 in 4 chance of getting promoted.

 

Assuming the top six win 6 more games each - 18 points - then the Skates will need a minimum of 28 points from 10 games [9 wins and 1 draw].

 

Toast is my verdict and a severely painful death.

 

Anyway, how are those four [or five, they're not quite sure!] potential suitors shaping up? It seems to have gone a little quiet on the selling the club front during their last few victories!

 

I can't imagine anything more painful for the few than having a storming end of season, but only finishing 7th (on goal difference), and as a result Chinny pulling the plug, selling everything that's not bolted own, and closing them down for good.

 

Actually I can. Getting to the playoff final and losing in the 30th minute of extra time, due to a very dodgy penalty.

 

And then Chinny trousering the match receipts, pulling the plug and closing them down.

[Gingeletiss]

It's the hope that kills them

[JackFrost]

If they don't go up and Chinny pulls the plug I wonder how he'll play it with regards to the PR.

 

I'm thinking it might be blaming 'the Italian clubs withholding transfer money has put us in a unsustainable financial decision' or will he blame Gaydamak? You can bet there won't be the slightest mention of the wages Nugent, Lawrence et al have been on.

 

Obviously it'll all be someone else's fault and if it does happen I suspect we'll get a subtle hint that'll crescendo into a "Pompey likely to be liquidated" story.

[holepuncture]

So, with 10 games to go, they need to average 1 point per game MORE than those in the top six, just to have a stab at a 1 in 4 chance of getting promoted.

 

Assuming the top six win 6 more games each - 18 points - then the Skates will need a minimum of 28 points from 10 games [9 wins and 1 draw].

 

Toast is my verdict and a severely painful death.

 

Anyway, how are those four [or five, they're not quite sure!] potential suitors shaping up? It seems to have gone a little quiet on the selling the club front during their last few victories!

 

Fantastic. Puts it into perspective nicely. Congratulations everyone!

[gaz]

[dubai_phil]

I can't imagine anything more painful for the few than having a storming end of season, but only finishing 7th (on goal difference), and as a result Chinny pulling the plug, selling everything that's not bolted own, and closing them down for good.

 

Actually I can. Getting to the playoff final and losing in the 30th minute of extra time, due to a very dodgy penalty.

 

And then Chinny trousering the match receipts, pulling the plug and closing them down.

 

Or losing in the play off semi final on penalties having spent everything you have on a wild gamble to go back up. No sensible football culb would try and do that would they

 

 

 

oh

[Durleyfos]

Do we know for certain that Chinny is gonna bail at the end of the season?

 

 

Or is it just speculation?

[rallyboy]

Chanrai can't afford to write off his losses yet, not with whiffs of parachute money still about.

 

IMO one more defeat will end their season.

But I'm wondering if many of the few realise that the massive gamble they took was to go up, not just stay up.

 

Midtable for that squad will be a very poor return on the big wages they have paid.

Cotterill has proved himself to be an average manager, I do hope he stays to rebuild, he has been close to mental breakdown for much of the season, I can't see that rebuilding again with even less money will be easy.

 

They should beat Boro, no doubt they will win other games but when the next defeat comes, and it will, the great gamble will have failed and damaged the future of the business.

It will be a repeat of their previous insanity, spending future revenue to step up a level.

 

Lampitt and Cotterill will then have to justify their decisions, or perhaps they will just both leave and let someone else sort out the new mess.

 

Or have we got it all wrong and as many of their fans believe, they will clear out the deadwood and bring in fresh new better players on shirt buttons, the foundations are now in place, all is rosy in the garden, a mass clearout is less of a crisis and more of an opportunity?.....yeah, right.

 

And that's ignoring the rumour about some sections of their ground failing safety checks.

And tax evasion charges.

And the liquidator's investigation.

While ploughing through parachute payments like Elton John at a florist convention.

 

They are not toast, the fat lady isn't singing, I can't hear the clippety clop of the four horsemen riding up the Eastern Rd, but they are slipping gently towards lower league mediocrity with no sign of what would change that, which is funnily the same thing they needed on day one of this thread.

 

Without investment and a new ground they will always be in decline - the playoffs are their last chance saloon, and they aren't even on the guest list yet.

[bridge too far]

^^^^

 

Eloquently put! I like it

[JackFrost]

Do we know for certain that Chinny is gonna bail at the end of the season?

 

 

Or is it just speculation?

 

Speculation.

 

Although some of the calculations on here illustrate that practically all of the parachute money has already gone through the club

[hypochondriac]

I don't think they will be as bad next year as many are predicting. I think it will be a slow decline. Many are out of contract at the end of the season which will bring their wage bill down considerably. Getting rid of Utaka for instance probably means they can bring in two replacements on modest wages (say Scunny sized) to give them more squad depth. Will be interesting though if they continue to pursue the quality not quantity approach.

[Saint Keith]

I don't think they will be as bad next year as many are predicting. I think it will be a slow decline. Many are out of contract at the end of the season which will bring their wage bill down considerably. Getting rid of Utaka for instance probably means they can bring in two replacements on modest wages (say Scunny sized) to give them more squad depth. Will be interesting though if they continue to pursue the quality not quantity approach.

 

the issue is they have had to spunk nearly all the parachute money to survive this year, most of that wont exist next year as they have already spent it, and even shipping a the high earners off wont turn them into a profit on gate money and £3m championship tv money

 

its like turning off the life support

[hypochondriac]

the issue is they have had to spunk nearly all the parachute money to survive this year, most of that wont exist next year as they have already spent it, and even shipping a the high earners off wont turn them into a profit on gate money and £3m championship tv money

 

its like turning off the life support

 

Enough will exist to give them a bigger budget than at least 4 teams, which is all they need to be better than to survive.

[JackFrost]

I don't think they will be as bad next year as many are predicting. I think it will be a slow decline. Many are out of contract at the end of the season which will bring their wage bill down considerably. Getting rid of Utaka for instance probably means they can bring in two replacements on modest wages (say Scunny sized) to give them more squad depth. Will be interesting though if they continue to pursue the quality not quantity approach.

 

but along with the 5 players they have on loan, this leaves them with how many first team players? They simply could nowhere near afford the wages of their squad this year and it all came out of the parachute money or loans from Chainrai.

 

Next year they won't have or will have hardly any of the parachute money left, I doubt they'll have enough players for a starting XI and no money to buy anyone with.

[hypochondriac]

but along with the 5 players they have on loan, this leaves them with how many first team players? They simply could nowhere near afford the wages of their squad this year and it all came out of the parachute money or loans from Chainrai.

 

Next year they won't have or will have hardly any of the parachute money left, I doubt they'll have enough players for a starting XI and no money to buy anyone with.

 

They will have a load of loans again same as this season which hasn't worked out too badly. Mark my words.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

but along with the 5 players they have on loan, this leaves them with how many first team players? They simply could nowhere near afford the wages of their squad this year and it all came out of the parachute money or loans from Chainrai.

 

Next year they won't have or will have hardly any of the parachute money left, I doubt they'll have enough players for a starting XI and no money to buy anyone with.

 

The powers that be will advance them the third lot of parachute money, £8m.

 

Then in 2012/13 the next lot.

 

After that? So it might be a little more protracted than we envisage or had hoped for.

[Gemmel]

Enough will exist to give them a bigger budget than at least 4 teams, which is all they need to be better than to survive.

 

Not a chance. They are avergaing 14,500 a match of which 1,500 tickets are given free to local schools and even if you average the away fans at 2,000 that means only 11,000 pompey fans through the turnstiles. It has taken two years of parachute money to bring the figures to break even. The don't see the next bit until Octoer / November next year. In the mean time they will need to finance at least 10 players and the small matter of the CVA which starts next year. On top of that there is likely to be a points deduction and a fine (Spurs was 1.5 million in 1994), but whatever happens, the slow painful death has started and just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it is not eating them away. The only cure is for a huge dollop of cash.

[OldNick]

SC has got in some decent loans. He is quite a decent judge and i suspect you can build a decent team with frees and loans. They still have the basis of a good side and the run they went on showed that. They will still be around for a longtime yet, the toast is still growing as wheat

[hypochondriac]

Not a chance. They are avergaing 14,500 a match of which 1,500 tickets are given free to local schools and even if you average the away fans at 2,000 that means only 11,000 pompey fans through the turnstiles. It has taken two years of parachute money to bring the figures to break even. The don't see the next bit until Octoer / November next year. In the mean time they will need to finance at least 10 players and the small matter of the CVA which starts next year. On top of that there is likely to be a points deduction and a fine (Spurs was 1.5 million in 1994), but whatever happens, the slow painful death has started and just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it is not eating them away. The only cure is for a huge dollop of cash.

 

Well we will see won't we but I'm pretty certain that's what will happen. How do you think it will play out then and we will revisit this next season and see what happens. Just a friendly little bet you understand, after all me all share the same goal (the demise of the skates.)

[hypochondriac]

SC has got in some decent loans. He is quite a decent judge and i suspect you can build a decent team with frees and loans. They still have the basis of a good side and the run they went on showed that. They will still be around for a longtime yet, the toast is still growing as wheat

 

Yep it's this.

[Gemmel]

How do you think it will play out then and we will revisit this next season and see what happens.

 

Pretty much how Ive said it all along (I could of course be wrong).

 

With the exeception of the Court case in August, they were always going to survive, but it was the level at which they could compete that was in question.

 

One thing to remember is that the parachute payments went up 20 million for the first time this year, (Just shows you how lucky they are) and without that increase they could well have folded. However on the basis that they dont go up this season next season looks dangerous on a number of levels.

 

They are quoted as running at break even this season, yet are already 5 million down on the revenue (As per CVA) they were required to generate towards the CVA payments. That break even in its most basic form is;

 

1) Player Sales

2) Parachute Money

3) Ticket Sales

4) Merchandising / Matchday programmes, food etc.

 

I cant be bothered to break them all down, but that equates to around about 50 million, yet they have only managed to break even.

 

Next year will see a drop in gate reciepts, only 17 million in parachute payments (Not until October / November) (As opposed to 35 that they spent this year), the first installments of the CVA, whist still having to find the 5 million to make up the player sale shortfall and the need to add at least 10 players to the squad (Many are out of contract at the end of the season, which if no one re-signs leaves them 8 players signed to them).

 

On top of that you have to consider they may get a points deduction (Which means bye bye Lawerence - I think he will go anyway) and then the fact that in July you can kiss good bye to the football creditors rule, which means clubs wont offer payment terms (In the same way they do today) espeacially to the blue few, so their chance of spending today and paying tomorrow will go overnight.

 

So simply to field a team will require someones cash. Chanaerai is covered with his parachute money as long as the other creditors are serviced appropriately (FA terms that he agreed to) which ultimately means that he needs to sit tight and wait for his money and hope he can sell the club to boost his return...... or throw millions of pounds at trying to get them promoted (Which he would have done this year if he was serious).

 

So how will it play out;

 

Minus 12 - 19 points start of the season

Lawerence will leave, they will sign 10 players on a free (There will be a reason why they are on a free) and scrape together a squad much in the way they have this year, but minus the quality. They will be relegated (By us at fratton park) and then dropped like an oily rag once chanerais money has been paid back.

He will of course want something for the club and all the football owner wannabees will come out of the woodwork and put together some sort of leveraged takeover for about 7 - 10 million, which will condemn them to a few more years of decline as the new owners struggle to repay back the money they levergaed to buy the club in the first place. After next season, league one and then two for the next 4 -5 years.

[pedg]

I think destiny dictates that they have to stagger on till we get to 50,000 posts and 1000 pages on this thread.

[Dark Munster]

Speculation.

 

Although some of the calculations on here illustrate that practically all of the parachute money has already gone through the club

 

Agreed. And hope.

 

The best the few can hope for, when Chinny's gamble fails, is for him to keep them on life support (making our last season in CCC playing kids look like a Man City type extravagance). He'll most likely spend the bare minimum to fulfill the fixtures until the last drop of parachute money can be extracted.

 

Then it will really be pull the plug time.

[Dark Munster]

Or losing in the play off semi final on penalties having spent everything you have on a wild gamble to go back up. No sensible football culb would try and do that would they

 

 

 

oh

 

Correct.

[Dark Munster]

The powers that be will advance them the third lot of parachute money, £8m.

 

Then in 2012/13 the next lot.

 

After that? So it might be a little more protracted than we envisage or had hoped for.

 

Imagine you are a loan shark, owning a club you have no interest in, except to extract as much lucre out of it as possible. You get advanced the remaining parachute money, and have paid off as few creditors as possible. You are left with several million. Do you:

 

1) Plough it into the club to keep them semi-competitive in the Championship (mid table at best) for a season or two.

 

or

 

2) Abandon the rotten carcass and buy yourself a nice new yacht?

[suewhistle]

Rallyboy - well put, particularly this summary:

It will be a repeat of their previous insanity, spending future revenue to step up a level.

 

This was also interesting: any flesh for the bones?

And that's ignoring the rumour about some sections of their ground failing safety checks.