Gorgiesaint Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 (edited) They don't need to worry about that yet!... sure i read somewhere that because of lack of funds Android has put back the first CVA payment to April 2012! CHEATS. The link is to the UHY Hacker Young site with the proposed modification of the CVA, the meeting was just before Christmas which I assume approved the changes. The reason for changes: 'Unfortunately, the player sales did not reach the projected value and therefore the £3,000,000 contribution was not received.' The first payment due is 1st April 2012. http://www.uhy-uk.com/pages/posts/our-proposed-modifications-to-the-cva-proposals-of-portsmouth-fc-and-revised-proposals-for-achieving-the-administrations-purpose773.php Edited 18 January, 2011 by Gorgiesaint oops forgot the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 I thought that a company could only come out of administration if the terms of the CVA were agreed by the relevant creditors. If the terms of the CVA change, do not the creditors have a right to have the CVA revisited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohwhenthesaints Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 I thought that a company could only come out of administration if the terms of the CVA were agreed by the relevant creditors. If the terms of the CVA change, do not the creditors have a right to have the CVA revisited? I'm fairly sure there was a clause in the CVA which stated that if the funds were not raised then the payment would be put off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 I thought that a company could only come out of administration if the terms of the CVA were agreed by the relevant creditors. If the terms of the CVA change, do not the creditors have a right to have the CVA revisited? I think there are a bunch of other rules that come into effect if you are in a CVA and then have difficulties with it, Bompey had all sorts of problems. I'm sure it's been said that the FL oversee their spending plans & budget anyway and if they do hit the stops again they could stick them on an embargo. If on;y they'd had some kids like we did - James, Gobern, Mills, Gillett, Morgan, they could have put out a full bench every week. Oh but they gave theirs away as not being good enough. yeah that's helped a lot. Wish we could have lent ours out for a season and gambled to stay up in the CCC, but we didn't. Two differing strategies, same end reult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 Still complaining about having a small squad. Yet today they loan out yet another 19 year old player that they could put on the 1st team bench... http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-youngster-joins-Hawks-on.6694624.jp Some are getting it... "A talented youngster being farmed out when we can only field four on the subs' bench - makes perfect sense." but others?..... "Redknapp confirms O'Hara will be loaned out for the rest of the season. Go on SC/ DL go get him PUP" Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 Don't forget, the CVA was effectively "voted-in" by a huge majority of football creditors, who get 100% anyway, and were all represented by "nominees". Nothing to do with the real creditors, and entirely manipulated by Andy & Baloo. That farcical vote gave Andy unrestricted power to vary the terms of the CVA as he sees fit (my own interpretation of the UK's ludicrous insolvency laws) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigShadow Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 Don't forget, the CVA was effectively "voted-in" by a huge majority of football creditors, who get 100% anyway, and were all represented by "nominees". Nothing to do with the real creditors, and entirely manipulated by Andy & Baloo. That farcical vote gave Andy unrestricted power to vary the terms of the CVA as he sees fit (my own interpretation of the UK's ludicrous insolvency laws) From what I recall, only two creditors voted against the CVA - HMRC and one other. So the fact that football creditors may have been included only weakened the HMRC % to block the CVA. All the other creditors either accepted or didn't bother to vote so they only have themselves to blame for allowing AA to push through a CVA that proposes to pay a pittance (less expenses), but also provides them the opportunity to modify the payments because they haven't raised enough funds. I suspect many creditors correctly guessed that regardless of how they voted the result would be the same and they would end up with the princely sum of Fu[k All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 So how likely is it that Pompey get wound up? Surely if they keep putting CVA payment dates back then someone with want to liquidate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 18 January, 2011 Share Posted 18 January, 2011 So how likely is it that Pompey get wound up? Surely if they keep putting CVA payment dates back then someone with want to liquidate them. They're not in administration any more, so normal rules apply. Anyone they owe more than £750 to, that they then miss a repayment to, can issue a winding up order. The CVA repayment terms are to put it bluntly, terrible for the creditors. Pompey don't have to repay anything until 2012 now to creditors in the CVA if the reports linked to here are to be believed. They still have to meet day to day running costs though, if they miss any of those, I doubt they'll be allowed to go into administration again, it'll be liquidation straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Cheats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 calling all experts - is it standard practice to exit administration but fail to start cva? If not the FL could take a dim view of this and define pompey as still being in an administration state, thus being liable for a points penalty come August, because just like pompey the FL can do whatever they want. AA used admin to protect the club, now he seems to be in a noman's land that doesn't cost the club a penny and continues to delay a return to solvent trading. He took seven years at Swindon, I'm not sure pompey ever intend to start this cva. Has Chanrai moved the first payment back to coincide with a parachute payment? If so it might just demonstrate how little he intends to put into the remains of this company. Most creditors will have to take that on the chin but presumably the taxman will eventually wheel out their legal experts Chuckle and Chucklel to sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 I thought that a company could only come out of administration if the terms of the CVA were agreed by the relevant creditors. If the terms of the CVA change, do not the creditors have a right to have the CVA revisited? The payment plan might have changed but the amount owed is the same and not sure what happens to the final payment date - anyone know?. They may survive this season thanks to three worse teams, but next season will be interesting as Nugent and Utaka will no longer be contracted to the club, same with Brown and Hughes. There maybe a couple of others and with Dickinson, Sonko, Halford and De laet all loans they will be gone. Can Kanu keep going for another year or Hreidarsson? Their first team will look quite different next season: Team against Forest 01 Ashdown 03 Dickinson 05 De Laet 20 Ward 25 Sonko 04 Mokoena 07 Lawrence 08 Mullins 17 Utaka 10 Nugent 27 Kanu Substitutes 37 Flahavan, 06 Hreidarsson, 33 Rocha, 36 Kilbey Of course much will depend on the FL on how much the skates plead of having no squad but I'm sure there will still be financial restrictions in place rather than spend what they like. But to have around ten changes to the first team is one big handicap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-legend-Alan-Knight-declared.6695092.jp Not just the club, the players are going down the toilet aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-legend-Alan-Knight-declared.6695092.jp Not just the club, the players are going down the toilet aswell Sounds like he took financial advice from Peter Storrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-legend-Alan-Knight-declared.6695092.jp Not just the club, the players are going down the toilet aswell PFC may stink to high heaven, but my sympathy goes to Alan Knight. Their dishonesty is not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 They're not in administration any more, so normal rules apply. Anyone they owe more than £750 to, that they then miss a repayment to, can issue a winding up order. The CVA repayment terms are to put it bluntly, terrible for the creditors. Pompey don't have to repay anything until 2012 now to creditors in the CVA if the reports linked to here are to be believed. They still have to meet day to day running costs though, if they miss any of those, I doubt they'll be allowed to go into administration again, it'll be liquidation straight away. Well with the way that club is going i'm not at all surprised if that was the outcome. It will be made even sweeter if we get to play in the Championship next season and watch them get relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 PFC may stink to high heaven, but my sympathy goes to Alan Knight. Their dishonesty is not his fault. I know he is one of the old school & probably never earnt millions like todays players BUT he would still have amassed hundreds of thousands from the game & then to p*ss it up the wall & lose it all the horses... I might be harsh but no sympathy from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Interesting... http://twitter.com/#!/RohanRicketts I have to make an announcement about Portsmouth Football Club because apparently there is an article out today saying that I was given a trial and I did not turn up! This is absolutely ridiculous! I was not offered a trial by Steve Cotterill or anyone at the club! My representative spoke with Steve and Steve's response was unbelievably uncalled for! I can not wrap my head around it! Pompy have a small sqaud ( 4 players on the bench for the last game), I am free,fit and hungry to play! I could understand if Steve said I am not his type of player or he does not need my position. But what he said was totally uncalled for!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/470168724?-20122 Usual tripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/470168724?-20122 Usual tripe Wasn't that game in August?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/470168724?-20122 Usual tripe Errr, what? They didn't play Reading last night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 I thought it was strange too as i couldnt see them with a game on the fixture list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 I know he is one of the old school & probably never earnt millions like todays players BUT he would still have amassed hundreds of thousands from the game & then to p*ss it up the wall & lose it all the horses... I might be harsh but no sympathy from me. Quite, he was at Pompey for 22 years from '78-'00 I believe and for the vast majority of those years would have earned £30-50k per annum which back in the 80s and even early 90s was a LOT of money. No sympathy from me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 What hold do Pompey have over football administators? what ever pompey do, however badly it affects others, a nod and a wink sees them through, what is going on? That old goaly Knight who served them well won't get away with it and neither would any of us but if it's Pompey the FL or the PL just bow down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/470168724?-20122 Usual tripe From that link: Sorry, you clicked a link to an article that we've detected is no longer available on the publication's website. Please close this window and try clicking a link to another article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 >calling all experts - is it standard practice to exit administration but fail to start cva? If not the FL could take a dim view of this and define pompey as still being in an administration state, thus being liable for a points penalty come August, because just like pompey the FL can do whatever they want. . I'm not an expert but I think you are underestimating just how screwed their real (as opposed to football) creditors were. The cva has started; they have exited admin via a cva. It's just that the cva is so lousy that they can easily vary the repayment schedule within it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 I'm not an expert but I think you are underestimating just how screwed their real (as opposed to football) creditors were. The cva has started; they have exited admin via a cva. It's just that the cva is so lousy that they can easily vary the repayment schedule within it. You'd think the Financial Services Authority would have some jurisdiction here. After all, it amounts to lying and cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 You'd think the Financial Services Authority would have some jurisdiction here. After all, it amounts to lying and cheating. Where have you been for the last ten years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Interesting... http://twitter.com/#!/RohanRicketts What did SC say that upset him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Where have you been for the last ten years!! What I actually meant was that there ought to be some sort of regulation of Insolvency and Administration 'experts' and CVAs. Football clubs are beyond the financial laws of this country it seems. PFC being liars and cheats is as plain as the nose on your face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 You'd think the Financial Services Authority would have some jurisdiction here. After all, it amounts to lying and cheating. If (and I haven't read it so I don't know) the CVA agreement stated that payments could be moved and the the creditors voted in favour of it there wouldn't be a lot that the FSA, ICAEW or IPA could do. Excecuting a clause that is in an approved cva document wouldn't be in breach of any rules. Some might think that this was the intention right from the begining and that the initial payment plan was only included to trick creditors into voting for something which would promptly changed but could they prove it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 If (and I haven't read it so I don't know) the CVA agreement stated that payments could be moved and the the creditors voted in favour of it there wouldn't be a lot that the FSA, ICAEW or IPA could do. Excecuting a clause that is in an approved cva document wouldn't be in breach of any rules. Some might think that this was the intention right from the begining and that the initial payment plan was only included to trick creditors into voting for something which would promptly changed but could they prove it? Read this thread from the very start, might give them some insight into that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Comical Andy - "We want to carry on our merry way, scamming charities, schools, and the inbred locals, the Football League and anyone else we can turn over to suck more money out. We'll pay you back a pittance, but only if we feel like it. Sign here" Thick skate creditors - "Certainly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 What did SC say that upset him? Cotterill accused him of refusing a trial/not turning up for a trial. Cotterill's such a w4nker, so glad he never got anywhere near Saints. Imagine what he'd have done if we had Walcott, Bale coming through under him.. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 This just epitomises everything about them: Warning: Not safe if you've just had your lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 This just epitomises everything about them: Warning: Not safe if you've just had your lunch. Meanwhile, like us, others don't take TCWTB tooooooo seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Meanwhile, like us, others don't take TCWTB tooooooo seriously! Lmao...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 My mistake, this is a far filthier watch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Comical Andy - "We want to carry on our merry way, scamming charities, schools, and the inbred locals, the Football League and anyone else we can turn over to suck more money out. We'll pay you back a pittance, but only if we feel like it. Sign here" Thick skate creditors - "Certainly" He's hardly Comical, he has saved Pompey and his boss. With clever taking the rules to the limit he has shown everyone what an ass the law is. The creditors in the main gave up on the money owed ages ago, and i suspect most are fans of the club and are happy to be raped by them. It is only fans like us who get up in arms as we can see they are putting 2 fingers up to the authorities and football and getting away with it. You have to admire how good he is, and has a quick mind to find every angle to get around problems. Whether he can now find other gullible fools to fall into the same trap is another thing.Im surprised any business is supplying them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 He's hardly Comical, he has saved Pompey and his boss. With clever taking the rules to the limit he has shown everyone what an ass the law is. The creditors in the main gave up on the money owed ages ago, and i suspect most are fans of the club and are happy to be raped by them. It is only fans like us who get up in arms as we can see they are putting 2 fingers up to the authorities and football and getting away with it. You have to admire how good he is, and has a quick mind to find every angle to get around problems. Whether he can now find other gullible fools to fall into the same trap is another thing.Im surprised any business is supplying them Think I mentioned before a description of him... He brings the Insovency Industry into Disrepute. He does nothing (apart from that thing he got fined for) wrong, but he takes it to the limit which is often viewed as "taking the p155", which is why I heard that so many in his industry don't think too highly of him. Wonder if he'll win an Industry Award like Mark Fry did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Think I mentioned before a description of him... He brings the Insovency Industry into Disrepute. He does nothing (apart from that thing he got fined for) wrong, but he takes it to the limit which is often viewed as "taking the p155", which is why I heard that so many in his industry don't think too highly of him. Wonder if he'll win an Industry Award like Mark Fry did? To be honest DP with what the sneaky bastards manèged to pull off down hear He should get an award, Maybe six to eight up state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 I'm not sure that 'really good administrators' have their actions described as bordering on criminal by judges or get fined for failing to inform creditors of vital information. Yes he has been good for pompey, and with their history of convicted fraudsters, alleged money laundering by arms dealers on the run and ownership by an international loan shark he was made for them. This gig was his destiny. So far he's made it out of the bank into the getaway car, but he still needs to cross the border.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 To be honest DP with what the sneaky bastards manèged to pull off down hear He should get an award, Maybe six to eight up state! I'll see if I can get you an invite to the Industry party when that happens :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Laugh out loud quote of the week from Steve Cotterill http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18012011/63/pompey-bare-bones.html "Portsmouth manager Steve Cotterill could have just 13 outfield players available for this weekend's clash with Leeds." Well Steve, that may have worked to get breaks from morons such as InJustice Mann and even the FL, but I doubt if BC is stupid enough to fall for that ploy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Bet he'll try and get dispensation to play them all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Chinny will be at the club for the next few years, earning a massive wedge of interest on his loan, recouping his loan in full, and then selling the club once the CVA is all cleared. Well that's what a skate mate told me. I wouldn't be surprised if Chinny does indeed plan to hang around long enough to trouser as much of the parachute payments as possible. But those payments will still get paid even if he flogs off as much as he can, funds only nippers and Pulis-level rejects on £100 per week, and the Cheats suffer 4 successive relegations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 January, 2011 Share Posted 19 January, 2011 Should Pompey be loaning out and selling youth players and then making £250,000 bids for Championship players? Whilst at the same time complaining about having a small squad. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Portsmouth-have-tabled-a-250k-bid-for-midfielder-David-Norris-of-Championship-rivals-Ipswich-article677031.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 20 January, 2011 Share Posted 20 January, 2011 Should Pompey be loaning out and selling youth players and then making £250,000 bids for Championship players? Whilst at the same time complaining about having a small squad. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Portsmouth-have-tabled-a-250k-bid-for-midfielder-David-Norris-of-Championship-rivals-Ipswich-article677031.html I'm guessing that is one of those rhetorical questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 20 January, 2011 Share Posted 20 January, 2011 Should Pompey be loaning out and selling youth players and then making £250,000 bids for Championship players? Whilst at the same time complaining about having a small squad. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Portsmouth-have-tabled-a-250k-bid-for-midfielder-David-Norris-of-Championship-rivals-Ipswich-article677031.html a very good buy if they get him. Yet again Pompey clear the decks of the young players and then try and buy in a player. It is unbelievable but nothing surprises anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 20 January, 2011 Share Posted 20 January, 2011 Should Pompey be loaning out and selling youth players and then making £250,000 bids for Championship players? Whilst at the same time complaining about having a small squad. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Portsmouth-have-tabled-a-250k-bid-for-midfielder-David-Norris-of-Championship-rivals-Ipswich-article677031.html Totally legal... so Pompey have nothing to be ashamed about....er wait a minute..... what about the moral argument? The 'playing the system to your advantage' which is commonly known as cheating... well I look at this way. When Lowe and Wilde returned - it was obvious they came back because they did not like being out of control over their shares when the debt was getting bigger - we were still in the CCC - and it could be argued that had Lowe kept Nigel Pearson, let him go out and brig in expensive wage earning loan players instead of getting in the infamous Dutch duo and playing kids we might not have been relegated - BUT it is certainly true in part to say that the cost cutting was done to try and AVOID further debt and administration - in effect we compromised our division status in an effort to avoid increasing debt and going into Admin.... so depsite a right royal footballing feck up, we at least tried to stay on the right side of the moral divide... so what do Pompey do, not only have they ripped of creditors to 80% (£80 mil) including the tax man, after an immoral attempt to gain instant success in the prem, DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when they realise they are in debt to stem the flow of cash (I remember clearly when teh club were planning their the 'World Cup' stadium that they were already in debt to £30 mil Plus - but just kept on spending. So following admin, and the creditors being shafted, have they learnt their lesson? NO do they seem to care? NO, do any of their fans question the moral and ethical approach their club is taking? I am sure there are a few, but I have yet to see any. So instead of cutting their cloth by playing kids and lower league loans (despite what this may mean for their relegation fight) - as we did to try and stem the tide - and therefore ensuring at the very least they are not only living within their means, but ensuring they have cash available to begin the regrowth, they 1) still have many players on prem wages, loan in other more expensive players, loan out the kids.youngsters so they can use the FL squad size rule and bring in other more 'expensive' loans.... This is not a case of hating pompey, I would feel teh same anger and friustration with the the financial stupity in the game whatever club it was if they behaved like they have done - we were stupid, had stupid owners that spent CASH we had in reserve to fund a promotion push which we should have kept for a rainiy day - it wwas wrong, and we paid the price of admin and relegation - I accept that, but we did not borrow money and when in a hole we stopped digging and that is the fundemental difference. The FL need to look at this and ask whether this is the way we want clubs to behave - the point deduction were brough in to try and stop clubs getting an unfair advantage by spending money they do not have in gaining an unfair competitive advantage - it seems to have had no impact on the financial approach of pompey - so why the feck are the FL so inept at putting tehir house in order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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