Pompey Takeover Saga

[Crab Lungs]

Now Pompey are pursuing money owed to them by a player ,who didn't pay his own agent , so they paid for him!!!

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Blues-to-take-Benjani-legal.6644128.jp

 

Maybe he should offer 20 p in the pound ,eventually!

 

The Pompey and money saga -- It's just the gift that keeps on giving

 

An extract:

 

21

toxteth o'grady,

30/11/2010 10:08:59

more importantly what about the £120 million Popmey owe everyone else !

 

and in response...

 

22

Grumpy Beer,

30/11/2010 10:47:50

Totally pointless comment, Toxteth. Many owed to Pompey is money owed to the creditors. Benjani should be made to pay in full (plus costs that are mounting) - he can afford it - and he should be banned from playing until he has paid up.

 

Unbelievable.

[St Jim]

are they dead yet?

[rallyboy]

yes, but they won't accept it.

 

Pull the chain again.

[CB Fry]

I noticed the Norwich fans chanting "Scum scum scum" at the Ipswich fans on the TV game on Sunday.

 

Made me wonder the origins of that unique word, so I looked it up.

 

Apparently some farmers from Ipswich drove up to Norwich to break a farming strike in the city. This was definitely in 1921. The travelling group were part of a group called the Suffolk County Unionised Menfolk and the name stuck from there. No one from Norwich has ever broken a strike ever and everyone from Norwich calls people from Ipswich SCUM purely because of this world famous strike breaking incident, because people from Norwich are morally superior to people from Ipswich who break strikes all the time.

 

This is all true because it is on this fanzine website here and all fanzine websites are completely true.

www.norwich-fans.co.uk/selfaggrandising garbageoveragenerictermofabuse

[Ken Tone]

I noticed the Norwich fans chanting "Scum scum scum" at the Ipswich fans on the TV game on Sunday.

 

Made me wonder the origins of that unique word, so I looked it up.

 

Apparently some farmers from Ipswich drove up to Norwich to break a farming strike in the city. This was definitely in 1921. The travelling group were part of a group called the Suffolk County Unionised Menfolk and the name stuck from there. No one from Norwich has ever broken a strike ever and everyone from Norwich calls people from Ipswich SCUM purely because of this world famous strike breaking incident, because people from Norwich are morally superior to people from Ipswich who break strikes all the time.

 

This is all true because it is on this fanzine website here and all fanzine websites are completely true.

www.norwich-fans.co.uk/selfaggrandising garbageoveragenerictermofabuse

 

 

Lol.

 

And of course the Ispwich fans call the Norwich fans 'skates' , because of their propensity to abuse fish landed in nearby Yarmouth?

 

(But since I went to uni in N'orch ('a fine city'), and I can't stand Roy Keane, my sympathies in that particular derby were definitely anti-Ipswich )

[Ken Tone]

An extract:

 

 

 

and in response...

 

 

 

Unbelievable.

 

In fact what they are trying to do is get Benjani to pay back a 'loan' that they should never have given him, in full and up front, so that they can eventually, over 4 years, pass on 20% of it to their poor creditors, and keep the rest themselves. 'Unbelievable' hardly covers it!

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey39s-pledge-to-creditors-and.6645882.jp

 

I thought Chanrai had paid the charities out of his own pocket already. Apparently not.

 

The charities they stole from have still not been remibursed but Pompey still managed to pay best part of £50k on 'public relations' and £88k on 'consultancy' from Peter Storrie.

 

Disgusting scumbag club.

[Saint_John]

What is it with their need to have Court Cases every month or so ?, but you have to laugh

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-hit-by-Muntari-cash.6645360.jp

 

The matter was set to be examined in an Italian court on Friday, December 10.

But Pompey have been informed that date has now been scrapped, with an alternative hearing still to be finalised.

and

To add to the complexity of the case, Udinese are claiming they are still owed 500,000 euros following Pompey's march to the FA Cup final last season and subsequent qualification for Europe, which the club failed to take up.

 

So the CHEATS FC "Failed to take up" entry to Europe.

IMO only people with an IQ of 2 or less are taken in by that comment.

[dronskisaint]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey39s-pledge-to-creditors-and.6645882.jp

 

I thought Chanrai had paid the charities out of his own pocket already. Apparently not.

 

The charities they stole from have still not been remibursed but Pompey still managed to pay best part of £50k on 'public relations' and £88k on 'consultancy' from Peter Storrie.

 

 

Disgusting scumbag club.

 

That's pretty much as low as you can stoop...take the PR plaudits for resolving the charity & small business debts then failing to deliver.

 

£47k p*ssed in to the wind if this gets wider publicity. LOL at Storrie's £88k...value for money or what?

[rallyboy]

if the rest of football noticed this it would be big and damaging news - club steals charity money to pay new players.

 

If a big club stole like this it would be all over the back pages, I guess we'll just have to keep the indignation local, that way it can just be dismissed as rivalry!

 

And they might want a refund for the PR work, it hasn't achieved anything - we can see through the spin, as can a number of the few now.

Though they still celebrate when new players are illegally brought in.

 

No spin, no promises, no more talk - just pay the charities back their money.

[saintjay77]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey39s-pledge-to-creditors-and.6645882.jp

 

I thought Chanrai had paid the charities out of his own pocket already. Apparently not.

 

The charities they stole from have still not been remibursed but Pompey still managed to pay best part of £50k on 'public relations' and £88k on 'consultancy' from Peter Storrie.

 

Disgusting scumbag club.

 

Maybe the meaning is being lost in translation but when they talk of things still to be agreed it makes you wonder how the administrators were alloud to count these figures in the initial CVA count only to question the same figures later on when talk of actual money is involved.

 

He said: 'Those creditors who qualify will be paid.

 

'It is part of the CVA and is something we are committed to.

 

'I can assure people progress is being made.

 

'Now the sale has been completed, the process of payment to these parties can begin.

 

'All charity claims are almost agreed and a letter will shortly be sent to all creditors with claims of £2,500 or under who have not yet provided details.

 

'We are reliant on creditors to submit such details to us as soon as they can, then we can start to progress.

 

'In actual fact, there are a lot of claims still to be agreed, it is a thorough process.

 

'Once such figures are clarified we can move on.

 

[Gemmel]

January could be interesting..... I hope the january payments to charities dont effect the transfer budget..... Quickly followed by March for the first CVA payment.

 

As long as a playoff spot is still acheiveble, they will carry on regardless.

[Gemmel]

Oh and where is lampitt..... havent seen sight nor sound of him since his statement about liquidating the club.

Is he still there.....has he outlived his purpose

[Sevvy]

Portsmouth chief executive David Lampitt has defended manager Steve Cotterill's decision not to sign new players during the transfer window.

 

Lampitt, 34, took up his post at Pompey in June 2010 and insists the new board did not influence Cotterill's decision.

 

"It's the manager's call on who to bring in, we were interested in a couple of signings but they didn't come off," he told BBC Radio Solent.

 

"Steve Cotterill decided to stick with what he's got and he was right."

 

Lampitt, speaking after Pompey's 2-1 win at Swansea, added that despite the club being an estimated £120m in debt, the Portsmouth boss will not be forced to sell players in the January transfer window.

 

"There's absolutely no intention for there to be a fire sale of players," Lampitt said, "but at the same time if we see there's a bit of good football business to be done then we'll do it.

 

"We'll be led by the manager because he's the one that's got to make all the footballing decisions," Lampitt continued.

 

"I don't want that process to be done in the public eye, it doesn't help the club, although I do appreciate the fans have a burning desire to know.

 

"Sometimes keeping that information confidential is not about being secretive but about making sure the club's interest are protected."

 

Just for you Gemmel,

[Gemmel]

Portsmouth chief executive David Lampitt has defended manager Steve Cotterill's decision not to sign new players during the transfer window.

 

Lampitt, 34, took up his post at Pompey in June 2010 and insists the new board did not influence Cotterill's decision.

 

"It's the manager's call on who to bring in, we were interested in a couple of signings but they didn't come off," he told BBC Radio Solent.

 

"Steve Cotterill decided to stick with what he's got and he was right."

 

Lampitt, speaking after Pompey's 2-1 win at Swansea, added that despite the club being an estimated £120m in debt, the Portsmouth boss will not be forced to sell players in the January transfer window.

 

"There's absolutely no intention for there to be a fire sale of players," Lampitt said, "but at the same time if we see there's a bit of good football business to be done then we'll do it.

 

"We'll be led by the manager because he's the one that's got to make all the footballing decisions," Lampitt continued.

 

"I don't want that process to be done in the public eye, it doesn't help the club, although I do appreciate the fans have a burning desire to know.

 

"Sometimes keeping that information confidential is not about being secretive but about making sure the club's interest are protected."

 

Just for you Gemmel,

 

Thanks Sevy.

 

Roughly translated.... No players coming in, all offers welcome for current squad.

[Sevvy]

And the best bit is that the monies owed to them by Genoa for Boateng is going straight to the administrators

[angelman]

Fair does to the Skates in their reaction to the charities not having been paid yet PR, Storrie, agents taking out money. They are in a funny position - they can't stand their owner especially with the bull about paying sub-£2500 creditors out of his pocket, yet they must be grateful that they still have a club.

 

I guess also that the lies to the creditors has begun. No money until at least January! I wonder what the excuse will be in January for delaying it until April etc etc.

[JackFrost]

Surely someone on here knows someone who is involved in making the Panorama programmes on the beeb

[angelman]

Surely someone on here knows someone who is involved in making the Panorama programmes on the beeb

 

Sadly I don't think anyone would be interested by a south coast club. They never are, although there is the merest amount shown when in the top league but never when outside of it.

[pedg]

Thanks Sevy.

 

Roughly translated.... No players coming in, all offers welcome for current squad.

 

According to the 'grand plan' how much are they supposed to be making from player sales in the upcoming transfer window?

[Crab Lungs]

The only reason this hasn't been featured on a Panorama-esque programme is because there is still so much to play out - especially legally, so therefore I'm not sure if it's worth poking just yet.

 

Though once all the formalities have been dealt with (or swept under the carpet, perhaps?) then I'm sure something will happen.

[Fowllyd]

According to the 'grand plan' how much are they supposed to be making from player sales in the upcoming transfer window?

 

And, just to pile on the laughs, how much higher is that figure likely to be now, given that they fell well short of their target for summer sales - and were left paying several very high salaries they'd hoped to get rid of?

[gaz]

Its a house of cards. Gently nudge one, and watch the whole stack tumble.

[Dark Munster]

Its a house of cards. Gently nudge one, and watch the whole stack tumble.

 

Not going to get promoted is the "gentle nudge" we're waiting (praying) for.

[Dark Munster]

Thanks Sevy.

 

Roughly translated.... No players coming in, all offers welcome for current squad.

 

That's plan B if they don't go up.

[Wes Tender]

Sadly I don't think anyone would be interested by a south coast club. They never are, although there is the merest amount shown when in the top league but never when outside of it.

 

You obviously either forgot or didn't see the Panorama programme called The Share Game which if I recall correctly did involve a South Coast Club, albeit one in the Premiership at the time.

[100%Red&White]

You obviously either forgot or didn't see the Panorama programme called The Share Game which if I recall correctly did involve a South Coast Club, albeit one in the Premiership at the time.

 

I think that may have been a BBC South programme - got it on tape somewhere and if I still had a video recorder I could have checked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, CHEATS.

[Gemmel]

According to the 'grand plan' how much are they supposed to be making from player sales in the upcoming transfer window?

 

They scrapped the first grand plan, when it fell short of the revised target. But they dont have protrection of administration anymore, oh and the sub 2,500k creditors want their dosh and so do the first round of CVA payments in March.

Lawrence and Kitson are the intresting ones.... a bungled transfer in the summer, that needs to be ratified in January. Stoke might up the price or sell to another club.

I bet that more players go out than come in.... Unless of course chanerai has managed to borrow some money to invest into the club.

[suewhistle]

... Unless of course chanerai has managed to borrow some money to invest into the club.

 

at interest rates which will make the Irish and Portuguese bond rates look like chicken feed...

[Dark Munster]

at interest rates which will make the Irish and Portuguese bond rates look like chicken feed...

 

[Crab Lungs]

How stupid do Portsmouth feel now building that 250,000 harbourside pottydrome...

 

....Oh.

[hutch]

They scrapped the first grand plan, when it fell short of the revised target. But they dont have protrection of administration anymore, oh and the sub 2,500k creditors want their dosh and so do the first round of CVA payments in March.

Lawrence and Kitson are the intresting ones.... a bungled transfer in the summer, that needs to be ratified in January. Stoke might up the price or sell to another club.

I bet that more players go out than come in.... Unless of course chanerai has managed to borrow some money to invest into the club.

That won't help. They need one of those old-fashioned loans. You know, the kind where the club (Company) actually receives some cash.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

That won't help. They need one of those old-fashioned loans. You know, the kind where the club (Company) actually receives some cash.

 

But you have to repay those old fashioned loans, unlike those 80% discounted ones which the DFCSBs were so fond of for the last few years.

[rallyboy]

I fear that the award of the world cup to Russia must finally end the harbourdome project.

I had so much looked forward to sitting in the Maradona stand watching England's Jamie Ashdown lift the world cup....I guess that dream died yesterday.

 

 

Could have been worse I suppose, they could have let Fahim spend the first £500M on the development while he waited for the FA funding to come through.

 

Imagine what state they would be in now if senior figures had gambled the whole business and overspent recklessly in pursuit of crazy dreams without guarantees of future income.

[Dr Who?]

I think fans of teams like Brighton do get it. They have had a rougher ride than almost anyone & it must stick in the craw the way the DCFSBs have 'got away with it'. A plastic Manure fan who only watches the Champions league can have no grasp of what has happened, it is beyond their experience, but proper fans, especially of those clubs caught on the wrong side of things, understand and share our contempt.

 

I was going out with a women who was at Brighton in Uni the year that they had their ground taken away from the 1996/7 season I think. They have had a very hard time, with owners who sold their ground without having a new one in place and then clearing off. What a terrible thing to do to a club. I went to watch them that season in a 5-5 draw with Leyton Orient with a Leyton Orient team with Ray Wilkins in it. What a match it was, 5-5 all to start with and a protest, a pitch invasion, 2 pens, a sending off and a punch up.

 

Here we are 14 years on from that season and they have only just got a new ground being built, and if they manage to gain promotion with us, the timing could not be much better, and I think we will see a great club come from the dust that was Brighton a few years back. They have done it the very hard way and cheating scum down the road have just got off lightly IMO!

[Sevvy]

Mind you Pompey might be lucky, the Qatar bid is for all the new stadiums to be built in kit form so that after the world cup they can be disasembled and then sent to other poor deprived areas,reassembled so that the poor population around can watch football in a nice new shiny stadium.

[Gemmel]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

 

Not sure whether there is any relevance in the fact that android, seems to be gagged and this keily character is doing all the media stuff.

 

So it has been sent to the Insolvancy Service..... I do hope they follow up Androids interviews, I am sure Tanya would love to have her say.

 

I feel sorry for Storries wife, there is a limit on how much bleach you can use on solied underwear.

[redkeith]

I'm suprised that no-one has posted this link yet.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

This could actually be the start of the start of the investigation, although I fear that more information may have ended up in the shredder than in the report itself.

 

Although everything is top secret, there are details of the sort of wrongdoings that could be taken further, such as using money owed to the Crown (HRMC) to continue running the business. I think even the Skates will find it difficult to dodge that bullet.

 

Another interesting aside is that Al Mirage is not included in the investigation as he was never a Director of the company although, as he appears to be a creation of fiction, perhaps Sherlock Holmes or Rebus could be called in to make enquiries ?

[JackFrost]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

 

Not sure whether there is any relevance in the fact that android, seems to be gagged and this keily character is doing all the media stuff.

 

So it has been sent to the Insolvancy Service..... I do hope they follow up Androids interviews, I am sure Tanya would love to have her say.

 

I feel sorry for Storries wife, there is a limit on how much bleach you can use on solied underwear.

 

By law, UHY Hacker Young are requested to interview all Pompey directors from the past three years.

 

The administrators have refused to reveal to The News the identities of those they have subsequently quizzed, in interests of confidentiality.

 

However, those who have sat on the board during that period are Peter Storrie, Mark Jacob, Sacha Gaydamak, Sulaiman Al Fahim, Tanya Robins, Bruce Vandenberg and Roberto Avondo.

 

Ali Al Faraj, who was Pompey owner from October 2009 to February 2010, has never been listed as a director and therefore does not qualify.

 

why isn't that surprising? lol

 

They also have a duty to report any discovery of criminal activity to the police. Hopefully the police aren't holding their breath

[JackFrost]

I'm suprised that no-one has posted this link yet.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

This could actually be the start of the start of the investigation, although I fear that more information may have ended up in the shredder than in the report itself.

 

Although everything is top secret, there are details of the sort of wrongdoings that could be taken further, such as using money owed to the Crown (HRMC) to continue running the business. I think even the Skates will find it difficult to dodge that bullet.

 

Another interesting aside is that Al Mirage is not included in the investigation as he was never a Director of the company although, as he appears to be a creation of fiction, perhaps Sherlock Holmes or Rebus could be called in to make enquiries ?

 

I'll do it

[Gemmel]

"The disqualification unit will be looking for instances of personal benefits obtained by directors, overvaluing assets in accounts for the purpose of obtaining loans, unreasonable charges for services or non-payment of Crown debts to finance trading."

 

Well that seems pretty straight forward to prosecute on. Can't help feeling though that Storrie is going to be the big fall guy in all of this.

 

Intresting to see the fishy few clambering for "no stone unturned" investigations, which i guess is understandable, the only problem is that for every proven allegation....comes a potential points deduction.

 

If they want it.... if they really really really want it...... It could kill them.

 

"Becareful what you wish for" has never been so apt.

[suewhistle]

I'm suprised that no-one has posted this link yet.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

That's because most of us rely on people posting stuff here, so thanks!

 

Obviously they won't reveal names: they don't want to prejudice forthcoming trials...

 

In the comments I noticed this:

"On a different topic in the general creditors letters dated 26th Nov,it says there is a meeting on the 22nd December to discuss changes to the CVA."

What are the possible implications, is the whole CVA unravelling, can creditors now start further action now that the club are out of administration and if the promised payments are delayed?

[Weston Super Saint]

"The disqualification unit will be looking for instances of personal benefits obtained by directors, overvaluing assets in accounts for the purpose of obtaining loans, unreasonable charges for services or non-payment of Crown debts to finance trading."/QUOTE]

 

Leaving aside the obvious one of them not paying their tax bill to fund the cup run / premiership years, it would appear to be a shoe in that valuing Fratton Park at £10m is a clear over valuation of assets

 

That would be like me valuing my garden shed at £0.5m to be able to get a nice fat mortgage

[Gemmel]

In the comments I noticed this: What are the possible implications, is the whole CVA unravelling, can creditors now start further action now that the club are out of administration and if the promised payments are delayed?

 

Good spot Sue, (Dont take this as red) but I am pretty sure that some wording was included (Spotted by Clapham Saint who is an Administrator) that basically meant tehy only had to pay the CVA if they actually had the money.

 

This could well be the first step, in them backtracing on the massive 20p in the pound they promised.

 

The FL will certainly be wtaching with interest.

As an aside, Two weeks Cotterill was assuring everyone he had the green light from Chanarai for 4 new players. This week he is being praised for "Being Happy with squad and not bringing anyone else in January. Bearing in mind that any transfer activity they undertake has to be approved by the FL, it might be they are already onto this and have blocked it.... We will see.

[Gemmel]

That would be like me valuing my garden shed at £0.5m to be able to get a nice fat mortgage

 

Indeed or even something as simple as overvaluing a football sqaud by 20 million because you have 25 years footballing experience.

[Dark Munster]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Pompey-financial-report-to-be.6647296.jp

 

 

Not sure whether there is any relevance in the fact that android, seems to be gagged and this keily character is doing all the media stuff.

 

So it has been sent to the Insolvancy Service..... I do hope they follow up Androids interviews, I am sure Tanya would love to have her say.

 

I feel sorry for Storries wife, there is a limit on how much bleach you can use on solied underwear.

 

I can't decide whether Android's & Co.'s report was written on a postcard, or on the back of an envelope.

 

By law, UHY Hacker Young are requested to interview all Pompey directors from the past three years.

 

Android: "So Peter, did you do anything naughty or improper while you were employed by PFC?"

Storrieteller: "Who me? Of course not!"

Android: "OK, off you go then. Send in the next director, please."

 

From the comments:

 

PaigntonPompey,

HarryStotleland 02/12/2010 11:29:27

At last!

I am sure Hacker Young and co will lay bare the culpable. That AA and his fearless team will leave no stone unturned and no finger unpointed in their damning report. That they will shine a light into every corner of this maggot-infested crime to find the truth and expose those responsible. That their report will be above reproach and beyond the clutches of crude accusations of impropriety, vested interest and compromise.

 

Either that or it will be quietly filed away and forgotten.

 

PaigntonPompey,

HarryStotleland 02/12/2010 11:42:18

More esoterically, what punishment can be given to those responsible but who do not exist? A hypothetical dressing-down?

 

Come on, admit it, who's "PaigntonPompey"? And you wanted to write "maggot-infested club" but decided against that to avoid having your comment removed, right?

[rallyboy]

investigation into 'unreasonable charges for services' - That's half their playing squad and former managers facing jail sentences then.

 

I think we predicted a revised cva a couple of months back, once again the idiots who voted for it deserve to be shafted.

If it's revised down that must be the point where the FL step in - they approved that cva and said it was workable even though it looked like a work of fantasy, can they admit they were wrong/misled or will they just let the insolvent trading continue?

 

They have to draw a line in the sand or the whole sport is in a handcart and heading somewhere warm.

 

Any proposal of a reduction in terms to creditors would make it pointless for them to support the cva - and now they have sailed away from the shrewd safe haven of administration, AA's little boat would be in very choppy waters.

[dubai_phil]

investigation into 'unreasonable charges for services' - That's half their playing squad and former managers facing jail sentences then.

 

I think we predicted a revised cva a couple of months back, once again the idiots who voted for it deserve to be shafted.

If it's revised down that must be the point where the FL step in - they approved that cva and said it was workable even though it looked like a work of fantasy, can they admit they were wrong/misled or will they just let the insolvent trading continue?

 

They have to draw a line in the sand or the whole sport is in a handcart and heading somewhere warm.

 

Any proposal of a reduction in terms to creditors would make it pointless for them to support the cva - and now they have sailed away from the shrewd safe haven of administration, AA's little boat would be in very choppy waters.

 

Surely if this were to happen then just one affected creditor should be able to bring the whole can of Sardines crashing down by asking why AA did not achieve the figures he proposed.

 

Everyone on here knows the answer

 

 

Players wages

[saintjay77]

From the comments:

 

PaigntonPompey,

HarryStotleland 02/12/2010 11:29:27

At last!

I am sure Hacker Young and co will lay bare the culpable. That AA and his fearless team will leave no stone unturned and no finger unpointed in their damning report. That they will shine a light into every corner of this maggot-infested crime to find the truth and expose those responsible. That their report will be above reproach and beyond the clutches of crude accusations of impropriety, vested interest and compromise.

 

Either that or it will be quietly filed away and forgotten.

 

PaigntonPompey,

HarryStotleland 02/12/2010 11:42:18

More esoterically, what punishment can be given to those responsible but who do not exist? A hypothetical dressing-down?

 

Come on, admit it, who's "PaigntonPompey"? And you wanted to write "maggot-infested club" but decided against that to avoid having your comment removed, right?

 

My 1st thought was I need to go down the road and disinfect Paignton of a thick skate, but the wording does suggest it may be one of us on the WU. lol

 

Torquay is not a bad place to live and our neighbours down the road in Paignton do house the more chavier folks in Torbay so PaigntonPompey probably blends right in.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

What happens if they can't afford the wages again and have to adjust the CVA as well? Do they get to go into administration again and **** everyone over for a third time? Would this be sanctioned by the FL? Are they taking the **** or what?