Pompey Takeover Saga

[pfc123]

A good contact of mine who reckons he is ITKk reckons that Pompey's current wage bill is based on the following weekly pay out:

 

Ashdown £4k

Flahavan £3k

Halford £16k

Dickinson £2k

Mokoena £15k

Hreidarsson £9k

Ward £3k

Sonko £6k

Rocha £12k

Martin £2k

Lawrence £18k

Mullins £14k

Brown £15k

Hughes £13k

Gregory £3k

Webber £8k

Nugent £20k

Utaka £38k

Kitson £20k

Ciftci £5k

Kanu £15k

Cotterill+Staff £32k

Youth £5k

Total £278k

Misc Wages

(Staff/Legals/

PR/Admin) say £22k

 

Total wages outlay £300k per week est £15m pa

 

Assume stadium/other income will cover cost of away travel/training ground hire/ground maintenance (if they do any!!) minimal CVA payments/borrowings and purchase of brown bags.

 

Revenue 15,000 av gate at say £20 net of Vat x 23 = £6.9m (theoretical loss of £8.1m per annum)

 

19,000 av gate = £8.74m (reduces annual theoretical loss to £6.24m)

 

So a fairly hefty shortfall which has to be covered by any Parachute Payments (if there are any left), any transfer income and/or the goodwill of the owners.

 

However despite this apparent financial black hole it is good to know that all is well down on Portsea Island

 

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

[sidthesquid]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

I was going to mention all those other annoying little costs like NI for staff, but I forgot, you don't pay that. Or St Johns ambulance, or the catering, or the electric....

[JackFrost]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

you're assuming the club will even see that money

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

So after 5 years that would leave you some £5.9m in debt. Having, because you'll be run prudently, not bought any other players and also renewed those currently there with no increase. Of course you may get promoted, conversely you may get relegated.

 

Not a lot to go wrong there then, just the Tax, V.A.T., N.I., to pay.

 

So where is BC going to get his money back? From parachute payments?

 

It's all getting rather complicated for me now, to be honest.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Out of Admin and looking for fresh borrowing already. Pompey are everything that is wrong with English football. A complete disgrace. How anyone with half a brain cell can support the club is beyond me.

[Foxstone]

So after 5 years that would leave you some £5.9m in debt. Having, because you'll be run prudently, not bought any other players and also renewed those currently there with no increase. Of course you may get promoted, conversely you may get relegated.

 

Not a lot to go wrong there then, just the Tax, V.A.T., N.I., to pay.

So where is BC going to get his money back? From parachute payments?

 

It's all getting rather complicated for me now, to be honest.

 

 

He's going to do a Mikey Wilde !

 

Sh1t or bust for promotion this season ( and he might even invest a few bob along the way) !

 

If he gets them there then its all sweet ! If they fail then they will be back in the brown mucky stuff again and Baloo cuts his losses but cutting the clubs - To ribbons!

[benjii]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

 

Except your only "outgoings" in your calculation are wages. Wages at 100%+ of turnover from normal operations = hello again, Mr Admin Man. I imagine you intend to spend some other money too, or is every penny through the door otherwise net profit in PFC world?

 

Face it - you still have a completely unsustainable financial model. Your club is worth nothing, your resources are meagre and the only reason the current owner is still there is to try to extricate himself from a rather large mess with as little damage as possible.

[benjii]

ps - PFC123, are you Peter Storrie?

[JackFrost]

ps - PFC123, are you Peter Storrie?

 

I think I actually asked the same question myself about 250 pages back

[OldNick]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

.

Do you believe any of the revenues are still there? Afterall you were told that AA was going to have to stall any wages as you had run out of money to pay them. I dont know when the tv money comes in but any revenue up to this week end is gone /spent

[saintjay77]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

Even if the wage ideas are close to reality I doubt that will be the only expenditure the club has to fork out on. Many players have win or goal bonus's tied into there contracts so there could be additional payments there, as others have mentioned there are the tax and NI bill's that for any football club must be quite high based on the ammount players get paid these days. Pompey are trading with a wage bill higher than there CVA limits already so surly any extra money out is going to be a strain?

 

The attendances are a bit off so far although you might get more through the door now your out of admin and no doubt even more should you realistically charge for promotion. But even then I would think an average of 17k will be a struggle. Most teams in the Championship struggle to hit that many week in week out and your fans have lost interest due to all the flak they have had to put up with. The club is now in the hands of someone that took the club in this direction only to shed some debt and make some money out of the club. I would question how much support the locals will be prepared to give after all they have been put through.

 

I would guess for the next few weeks there will be a bumper turn out but it will take the slightest of wobbles for the support to vanish again. Only way it will be easy will be if a shed load of money gets injected into the club. I and I would have thought even you would doubt the chances of that happening too soon.

[Gemmel]

Well my friends the time has come………………….

 

From Duncan’s very first post we have had 5 owners to laugh at (Gaydamak, Al Fahim, Al Faraj, Administrators and chinchanarai) all of which gave and contributed unconditionally to our entertainment.

Whilst I expect the sixth new owner to be in place inside four months, the actual “takeover saga” has, like all good things, come to an end.

There will of course be twists and turns ahead and the 24 million pounds worth of debt, still needs to serviced and wages (Including Tax and NI) need to be paid. No doubt other threads will spring up and highlight their shortcomings, but the ride is over and it is time to close down this “Thing of beauty” and lock the thread.

 

So from the broken bank files, Thai prostitutes and dodgy calculators through to court cases, European appeals and seized car parks……. And everything in between, a huge thankyou for the laughs.

A special mention for Peter Storrie (Whose still working 24/7 in a hotel in London, trying to convince the South Africans to buy) Without which, the thread, entertainment and belly laughs simply wouldn’t have been possible. Quite possibly the funniest businessman I have ever seen or heard and we can only hope that with his 25 years football experience, he finds his way back to fratton park in the very near future.

 

So with a heavy heart, goodbye “pompey takeover saga” and I can’t wait for the book.

Edited 25 October, 2010 by Gemmel

[pfc123]

....but I forgot, you don't pay that. Or St Johns ambulance, or the catering, or the electric....

 

Yep, we don't pay any of the little people do we? That's why anyone owed up to 5k is being paid in full under the terms of the CVA. Oh, and it's St John Ambulance, not "St Johns." Sorry, I'm an ex member so that one does grate when people get it wrong....

 

you're assuming the club will even see that money

 

Well if that's the case it will either go on debt repayment or day to day running costs- either way we'll still get the benefit of that money....

 

 

Except your only "outgoings" in your calculation are wages. Wages at 100%+ of turnover from normal operations = hello again, Mr Admin Man. I imagine you intend to spend some other money too, or is every penny through the door otherwise net profit in PFC world?

 

Face it - you still have a completely unsustainable financial model. Your club is worth nothing, your resources are meagre and the only reason the current owner is still there is to try to extricate himself from a rather large mess with as little damage as possible.

 

They're not my calculations- they're spyinthesky's, one of your own! I haven't even mentioned the income from merchandising. On shirts alone we'll probably sell at least 10,000 replica shirts a year at 40 quid a pop- £400,000. Then there's all the other items we sell. I'd be surprised if we're not turning over 8-900k and making 500k profit on that lot.

 

Sure we've got the usual electric/business rates/water/gas/legal/transport/hotel/catering bills to pay, but it wouldn't be unreasonable that the original 300k total figure was about right. Mind you there are some glaring errors in the players wage list- Utaka is not on 38k, he's on 26 (still painful for the return he gives) so there's 12k the bill is lighter straightaway.

 

And how on earth can the model be unsustainable? We have £48m coming in to pay off what's been agreed in the CVA which is what, £32m? Leaves £16m left to help pay the day to day running costs....

 

Do you believe any of the revenues are still there? Afterall you were told that AA was going to have to stall any wages as you had run out of money to pay them. I dont know when the tv money comes in but any revenue up to this week end is gone /spent

 

I do agree with you there re revenues. I think the only problem we're going to have now is one of short term cashflow, i.e. making sure the account doesn't run dry before the next tranche of SKY/BBC money and Prem league parachute payments are due. Hopefully, now we're safe, we can get on an even keel and pay our way again....

 

Out of Admin and looking for fresh borrowing already. Pompey are everything that is wrong with English football. A complete disgrace. How anyone with half a brain cell can support the club is beyond me.

 

See answer above- short term cashflow problem, nothing more. Think the frustration is starting to show in the rest of your post mate.

 

At the end of the day (apart from it getting dark) 95% of the posts on this thread are driven by a hatred of Pompey, nothing more. If this was happening to say, Huddersfield, or Ipswich, you wouldn't give a flying **** about "all the little people" and "poor Terry the builder."

 

You're all just ****ed off because we've been a bit more clever about getting out of a hole than you were....

[Matthew Le God]

pfc123 ignoring that next years parachute payments has already started to be used and that this years already has been.

[Matthew Le God]

You're all just ****ed off because we've been a bit more clever about getting out of a hole than you were....

 

I don't know if you had noticed but...

 

Saints are still financed by the estate of a billionaire, they have a large modern stadium, averaging over 20k in the 3rd tier, own a large piece of land in the form of Jackson's Farm, have their own training ground which has planning permission granted, no debt, have a large squad and have one of the best academies in the country.

 

Where as Pompey are owned by a man that doesn't want to own them, a small old stadium, rented training facilities, a tiny squad, a 5 year CVA to pay off, still under transfer review from the Football League, this seasons and some of next seasons parachute payments already spent, an academy lacking investment etc etc

 

I'd say Pompey are still in a pretty deep hole.

[holepuncture]

this thread has barely started... we have had all the 'close it down' calls many a time before, Al Fahim, Faraj, Injustice Mann and so on...

[JackFrost]

Yep, we don't pay any of the little people do we? That's why anyone owed up to 5k is being paid in full under the terms of the CVA. Oh, and it's St John Ambulance, not "St Johns." Sorry, I'm an ex member so that one does grate when people get it wrong....

 

 

 

Well if that's the case it will either go on debt repayment or day to day running costs- either way we'll still get the benefit of that money....

 

 

 

They're not my calculations- they're spyinthesky's, one of your own! I haven't even mentioned the income from merchandising. On shirts alone we'll probably sell at least 10,000 replica shirts a year at 40 quid a pop- £400,000. Then there's all the other items we sell. I'd be surprised if we're not turning over 8-900k and making 500k profit on that lot.

 

Sure we've got the usual electric/business rates/water/gas/legal/transport/hotel/catering bills to pay, but it wouldn't be unreasonable that the original 300k total figure was about right. Mind you there are some glaring errors in the players wage list- Utaka is not on 38k, he's on 26 (still painful for the return he gives) so there's 12k the bill is lighter straightaway.

 

And how on earth can the model be unsustainable? We have £48m coming in to pay off what's been agreed in the CVA which is what, £32m? Leaves £16m left to help pay the day to day running costs....

 

 

 

I do agree with you there re revenues. I think the only problem we're going to have now is one of short term cashflow, i.e. making sure the account doesn't run dry before the next tranche of SKY/BBC money and Prem league parachute payments are due. Hopefully, now we're safe, we can get on an even keel and pay our way again....

 

 

 

See answer above- short term cashflow problem, nothing more. Think the frustration is starting to show in the rest of your post mate.

 

At the end of the day (apart from it getting dark) 95% of the posts on this thread are driven by a hatred of Pompey, nothing more. If this was happening to say, Huddersfield, or Ipswich, you wouldn't give a flying **** about "all the little people" and "poor Terry the builder."

 

You're all just ****ed off because we've been a bit more clever about getting out of a hole than you were....

 

or go into Chainrai's back pocket

 

As for closing this thread, the CVA payments don't even start til March. There will be a lull yes but there's a long way to yet

[stevegrant]

See answer above- short term cashflow problem, nothing more.

Isn't that what Storrie-teller was saying for years?

[BigShadow]

PFC 2010 Annual Awards Ceremony

 

So - a new dawn has been reached (sunk to) in the annals of PFC history. It would only be fitting and appropriate to recognise those whose sterling work and dedication have brought about this latest success in the face of tremendous adversity. The PFC Christmas bash will be a fantastic celebration and I believe the following awards have been well earned.....

 

The Emperors New Clothes Award - Peter Storrie - For convincing the FA that Al Faraj should pass the fit and proper person test when he not only had no clothes, but there was in fact, no body.

 

The Vinnie Jones 'Big Brave Balls' award - AA and David Lampitt - For consistently flicking the 'v's at the FA, PL and FL and getting away it.

 

The Vinnie Jones 'Little Mincey Faggot Balls' Award - High Courts, FA, PL and FL - for shrinking into insignificance when it came time to enforce the laws and regulations that would have ended this saga long ago.

 

The 'Unit 1 Itchy Scratchy Balls' Award - Avram Grant - enough said.

 

The Leaky Sieve Award - FL Transfer Embargo - for having so many holes it may as well have not existed.

 

The David Blaine Award - AA - for creating the illusion for the FL that there is a sustainable business within the corpse that is PFC.

 

The 'Thread that will not die' award - Pompey Takeover Saga - PFC is still for sale. Chainrai doesn't want it so there is still a takeover awaited.....which brings me to....

 

The 'Fools Gold' Award - TBD - reserved for anyone stupid enough to buy PFC or Realisations or whatever and believe there are riches in Krap Nottarf.

 

.....this thread may go quiet for a while.....but I predict much more entertainment to be had before August. Buckle Up!!!

[eurosaint]

Yep, we don't pay any of the little people do we? That's why anyone owed up to 5k is being paid in full under the terms of the CVA. Oh, and it's St John Ambulance, not "St Johns." Sorry, I'm an ex member so that one does grate when people get it wrong....

 

 

 

Well if that's the case it will either go on debt repayment or day to day running costs- either way we'll still get the benefit of that money....

 

 

 

They're not my calculations- they're spyinthesky's, one of your own! I haven't even mentioned the income from merchandising. On shirts alone we'll probably sell at least 10,000 replica shirts a year at 40 quid a pop- £400,000. Then there's all the other items we sell. I'd be surprised if we're not turning over 8-900k and making 500k profit on that lot.

 

Sure we've got the usual electric/business rates/water/gas/legal/transport/hotel/catering bills to pay, but it wouldn't be unreasonable that the original 300k total figure was about right. Mind you there are some glaring errors in the players wage list- Utaka is not on 38k, he's on 26 (still painful for the return he gives) so there's 12k the bill is lighter straightaway.

 

And how on earth can the model be unsustainable? We have £48m coming in to pay off what's been agreed in the CVA which is what, £32m? Leaves £16m left to help pay the day to day running costs....

 

 

 

I do agree with you there re revenues. I think the only problem we're going to have now is one of short term cashflow, i.e. making sure the account doesn't run dry before the next tranche of SKY/BBC money and Prem league parachute payments are due. Hopefully, now we're safe, we can get on an even keel and pay our way again....

 

 

 

See answer above- short term cashflow problem, nothing more. Think the frustration is starting to show in the rest of your post mate.

 

At the end of the day (apart from it getting dark) 95% of the posts on this thread are driven by a hatred of Pompey, nothing more. If this was happening to say, Huddersfield, or Ipswich, you wouldn't give a flying **** about "all the little people" and "poor Terry the builder."

 

You're all just ****ed off because we've been a bit more clever about getting out of a hole than you were....

 

Sorry to inform you my fishy friend but your bookkeeping method smacks of 'best case scenario' all the way !

Nothing in reserve, no contingency and total trust in your latest 'totally committed' owner !

Dream on baby, dream on.........

[pfc123]

Sorry to inform you my fishy friend but your bookkeeping method smacks of 'best case scenario' all the way !

Nothing in reserve, no contingency and total trust in your latest 'totally committed' owner !

Dream on baby, dream on.........

 

£16m in parachute payments in reserve old chum. So, even if we've burned up the first years worth early, we STILL have enough to get by. Thats what you call a reserve AND contingency. We'll be just fine....

[mack rill]

It is far from over.

 

1) Chainrai has said he is taking out more in the way of borrowed money

 

2) The CVA has 5 years left and all repayments need to be on time or **** hits the fan again

 

3) Paul Duffen said he has seen documents that suggest that the parachute payments from next season are already being used

 

4) The disputed £1 million to Tottenham would upset the business plan

 

5) Storrie/Mandaric/Redknapp court case

 

Plenty to keep us entertained...

 

Yep! dosnee matter which grape you scumpys pick from the bunch, It just seems to be another sour one LOL.

[Weston Super Saint]

£16m in parachute payments in reserve old chum. So, even if we've burned up the first years worth early, we STILL have enough to get by. Thats what you call a reserve AND contingency. We'll be just fine....

 

That would be £16m of parachute payments in reserve - years 3 and 4 - yet you will need circa £12m to finance the shortfall needed to cover the wages to get you to year 3, so I dare say those parachute payments will be borrowed against, as hinted at by chinny boy.

 

Not to mention the £1m per annum needed to pay the rent to chinny for graciously allowing you to use your own stadium[sic].

 

Then there's the interest on the loans that your new 'owner' has already lent you, remind me, how much is that again?

 

Some of your fans - hell even Corpse was right on this one! - wanted chinny boy to be gone, along with the rest of the cowboys you've drawn to your club over the years. You on the other hand appear to be celebrating as though you've won the lottery.

 

Quite bizarre really.

[Matthew Le God]

£16m in parachute payments in reserve old chum. So, even if we've burned up the first years worth early, we STILL have enough to get by. Thats what you call a reserve AND contingency. We'll be just fine....

 

It is currently season one of parachute payments. All of season one's parachute payments have been spent and Paul Duffen has revealed that already the club has gone into season two.

[JackFrost]

pfc123 IS Peter Storrie

[spyinthesky]

It is useful to have PFC 123's view on this.

 

He is,of course, right to mention the TV income plus the possible shirt revenue altho the latter may be constrained by the closing of a number of their retail outlets.

 

In addition there is the Carling Cup revenue but I would suspect this will not be a significant sum bearing in mind he poor attendances.

 

One of the posters mentioned bonuses and, as Pompey are now in a decent run of form, I guess these are beginning to build up.

 

Another expense not fully set out is Agents fees and I suspect these to be at least £0.5m pa plus dear old Mr Storrie will undoubtedly have organised himself a nice leaving/loyalty party with lots of pressies and cakes amounting to another decent payout.

 

That nice Administrator and staff will hardly be working for nothing either. Another £250k - £500k anyone?

 

The biggest uncertainty, I suspect, is the amount of parachute payment available to be used as working capital.

 

All in all an interesting scenario and more treats in store if the well regarded ex Chairman of Hull City gets involved.

 

To be fair to Pompey they are reported to be getting their house in order by expecting their players to pay for meals. Hitch hiking to away games is also being considered.

[Dark Munster]

PFC 2010 Annual Awards Ceremony

 

So - a new dawn has been reached (sunk to) in the annals of PFC history. It would only be fitting and appropriate to recognise those whose sterling work and dedication have brought about this latest success in the face of tremendous adversity. The PFC Christmas bash will be a fantastic celebration and I believe the following awards have been well earned.....

 

The Emperors New Clothes Award - Peter Storrie - For convincing the FA that Al Faraj should pass the fit and proper person test when he not only had no clothes, but there was in fact, no body.

 

The Vinnie Jones 'Big Brave Balls' award - AA and David Lampitt - For consistently flicking the 'v's at the FA, PL and FL and getting away it.

 

The Vinnie Jones 'Little Mincey Faggot Balls' Award - High Courts, FA, PL and FL - for shrinking into insignificance when it came time to enforce the laws and regulations that would have ended this saga long ago.

 

The 'Unit 1 Itchy Scratchy Balls' Award - Avram Grant - enough said.

 

The Leaky Sieve Award - FL Transfer Embargo - for having so many holes it may as well have not existed.

 

The David Blaine Award - AA - for creating the illusion for the FL that there is a sustainable business within the corpse that is PFC.

 

The 'Thread that will not die' award - Pompey Takeover Saga - PFC is still for sale. Chainrai doesn't want it so there is still a takeover awaited.....which brings me to....

 

The 'Fools Gold' Award - TBD - reserved for anyone stupid enough to buy PFC or Realisations or whatever and believe there are riches in Krap Nottarf.

 

.....this thread may go quiet for a while.....but I predict much more entertainment to be had before August. Buckle Up!!!

 

Brilliant. But shouldn't HMRC get some award as well?

[Dark Munster]

I expect also that some of the money has also been used as security for "Factoring of player sales invoices".

 

In much the same way that we did "deals" with Spuds & Arsnil, when they had their (luke warm embers) sale of players, most the deals would have been partial payments up front and staged payments. A number of companies now offer to "discount" those invoices secured against TV or similar PL payments. Pretty sure that one of them cropped up as being mentioned in dispatches.

 

Again - robbing their future to pay for the present.

 

Chanrai also had secured loans in the club, those are from those Parachute payments - after all he REALLY doesn't want a stadium, so no, they won't be getting huge funds in and I would guess they are now trying to borrow cash against the parachute payments due in 3 or 4 years time......

 

The promise of future parachute payments is surely the only thing keeping them alive at the moment. If BC is indeed borrowing against these future payments, it can only bring forward the date of their collapse. Which reinforces my view that if they don't go up this season, BC will pull the plug, scarper with everything that isn't bolted down, and it's game over for Cheats FC.

 

Fingers crossed.

[angelman]

A good contact of mine who reckons he is ITKk reckons that Pompey's current wage bill is based on the following weekly pay out:

 

Ashdown £4k

Flahavan £3k

Halford £16k

Dickinson £2k

Mokoena £15k

Hreidarsson £9k

Ward £3k

Sonko £6k

Rocha £12k

Martin £2k

Lawrence £18k

Mullins £14k

Brown £15k

Hughes £13k

Gregory £3k

Webber £8k

Nugent £20k

Utaka £38k

Kitson £20k

Ciftci £5k

Kanu £15k

Cotterill+Staff £32k

Youth £5k

Total £278k

Misc Wages

(Staff/Legals/

PR/Admin) say £22k

 

Total wages outlay £300k per week est £15m pa

 

Assume stadium/other income will cover cost of away travel/training ground hire/ground maintenance (if they do any!!) minimal CVA payments/borrowings and purchase of brown bags.

 

Revenue 15,000 av gate at say £20 net of Vat x 23 = £6.9m (theoretical loss of £8.1m per annum)

 

19,000 av gate = £8.74m (reduces annual theoretical loss to £6.24m)

 

So a fairly hefty shortfall which has to be covered by any Parachute Payments (if there are any left), any transfer income and/or the goodwill of the owners.

 

However despite this apparent financial black hole it is good to know that all is well down on Portsea Island

 

£15m + 12.8% employers NI contribution = £16.92m. Now I am never sure whether these wages are nett or gross of tax and employees NI. I suspect that some might have their tax "paid" for them so I wouldn't be surprised if the £16.92m was actually closer to £20m.

[Matthew Le God]

Also doesn't include any of the numerous bonuses the players will have in their contracts for goals, appearances, clean sheets etc etc which would significantly increase the wage bill.

[buctootim]

Is VAT payable on ticket prices? I assume it is.

[bridge too far]

Maybe I'm being naive here, but surely it's not beyond the wit of man to pass a law that says that, if an owner puts his business into administration, he cannot buy it out of administration at a knock-down price.

 

Ordinary, law-abiding citizens can't wipe off their debts like this (unless they declare themselves bankrupt or get an IVA with all the penalties that brings) so why should business owners?

 

Or is that too simple?

[Gemmel]

Maybe I'm being naive here, but surely it's not beyond the wit of man to pass a law that says that, if an owner puts his business into administration, he cannot buy it out of administration at a knock-down price.

 

Ordinary, law-abiding citizens can't wipe off their debts like this (unless they declare themselves bankrupt or get an IVA with all the penalties that brings) so why should business owners?

 

Or is that too simple?

 

Knockdown as in free?

 

The CVA, and the interim report, made no mention or allowances for funds raised from the sale. Chanerai was never going to stump up a wedge for the club, but now its his without the debt he can sell it on (SSN believe that is already happening) and make some more dosh.

What I dont understand (And posted about last week) was that if anybody else offered andriod cash for the club, then he would have been duty bound to take the best deal for the creditors....... although he didnt exactly encourage potential buyers.

[sidthesquid]

Just saw Lampitt on South Today. He looks like a Sixth-former. No wonder he was so keen to take Poopey job as work experience before he goes on to college.....

[saintjay77]

Knockdown as in free?

 

The CVA, and the interim report, made no mention or allowances for funds raised from the sale. Chanerai was never going to stump up a wedge for the club, but now its his without the debt he can sell it on (SSN believe that is already happening) and make some more dosh.

What I dont understand (And posted about last week) was that if anybody else offered andriod cash for the club, then he would have been duty bound to take the best deal for the creditors....... although he didnt exactly encourage potential buyers.

 

Is that what lampit was on SSN for earlier? Only caught the end of it but figured there was a sniff of a twist in the saga. Could the world outside us lot finally be smelling a rat and start to question the goings on down there?

 

I still don't understand why there is no governing body that keeps an eye on how administrators go about their business. If AA has ignored cash offers in favour of his puppet master, and if that goes against the rules of running an administration, who is in charge of pulling them up on it? I can only think of trading standards but guess that would be as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

 

There seems to be an easy out as the old club is being liquidated. It would make sense for someone to investigate how the club got to where it is and also that the administration was dealt with in the best interests of the creditors. But they investigate themselves so they are hardly going to pick holes in there own work are they?

 

If a policeman committed a crime, it wouldn't be him who ran the investigation would it?

Edited 25 October, 2010 by saintjay77

[Gemmel]

Is that what lampit was on SSN for earlier? Only caught the end of it but figured there was a sniff of a twist in the saga. Could the world outside us lot finally be smelling a rat and start to question the goings on down there?

 

I still don't understand why there is no governing body that keeps an eye on how administrators go about their business. If AA has ignored cash offers in favour of his puppet master, and if that goes against the rules of running an administration, who is in charge of pulling them up on it? I can only think of trading standards but guess that would be as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

 

There seems to be an easy out as the old club is being liquidated. It would make sense for someone to investigate how the club got to where it is and also that the administration was dealt with in the best interests of the creditors. But they investigate themselves so they are hardly going to pick holes in there own work are they?

 

If a policeman committed a crime, it wouldn't be him who ran the investigation would it?

 

Yes, Lampitt was claiming he knows nothing about them selling, but it's the logical step now for chanarai. He remains the secured creditor, so that money is protected and now he can pocket another 10 million quid or so by flogging it off.

 

There is going to be an investigation, but ........ its being done by andriod. However, HMRC aren't done yet and will go after gaydamak and Storrie (IMO) so we might get to find out a little more about any dirty dealings.

 

Today in the commons someone tabled a proposal to govern football clubs and their finances as they (Football clubs) were incapable of self regulation. I only caught a snippet on the news, so hopefully will see the full thing later on

[benjii]

pfc123 has a very limited understanding, evidently.

 

I suggest we leave him to enjoy bathing in the warm glow of Pompey's brand new secure future.

[ST Randy]

Key word here is "apparent". The wages figures you suggest above are probably about right. However, you completely forget about the BBC/SKY tv money that all Championship teams receive, currently £3.5m per club per annum. Also, you conveniently forget about the income from the Carling cup games we had at home and potential income from home or away games in the F.A. cup and associated tv money and gate receipts that go with that. Lets say we got £500,000 from that. Might be less, might be a lot more, who knows?

 

Then lets look at this 300k per week wage bill. If it wasn't that high, say 250k per week? that would bring the figure down to 13m per annum. Lets meet half way on attendances- lets say we don't make 19k but we do better than 15k, say 17? At 17k the income @ £20 would be £7.82m. Add the tv money + £3.5m + £0.5m cup money = £11.82m WITHOUT touching the parachute money of £12m that we've got for the next four years.

 

If the outgoings are £13m and the income is £11.82m we aren't far short at all are we? £1.18m. So, even if ALL the parachute money is ringfenced towards the CVA, the picture is probably nowhere near as bleak as you'd all love it to be....

 

So you happily knock a couple of million off the wages, add a few million onto the turnover (the Carling Cup games that you played had a total attendance of 20,000 so you would have been pushed to have made £100k out of that lot !!) come up with a wages / turnover ratio of 110% ..... and then declare yourself happy!!! Unbelievable.

 

A Wages / Turnover ratio of more than 70% is normally considered to be pushing it. 110% is guaranteed to end in tears.

 

 

50

[Chin Strain]

£16m in parachute payments in reserve old chum. So, even if we've burned up the first years worth early, we STILL have enough to get by. Thats what you call a reserve AND contingency. We'll be just fine....

 

Seriously, ask yourself the question 'Why is Chanrai still involved?'. I think most sane people would think he's involved to get as much as he can out of the club for as little outlay as possible. Parachute payments? Where do you think any CVA excess is actually going to end up? In the club? yeah, dream on.

[Faz]

So you happily knock a couple of million off the wages, add a few million onto the turnover (the Carling Cup games that you played had a total attendance of 20,000 so you would have been pushed to have made £100k out of that lot !!) come up with a wages / turnover ratio of 110% ..... and then declare yourself happy!!! Unbelievable.

 

A Wages / Turnover ratio of more than 70% is normally considered to be pushing it. 110% is guaranteed to end in tears.

 

 

50

 

 

Indeed, as Gill just said about Manu, they operate on a wages to T/O ratio of 50%. But then again, they lack ambition.

[Corporate Ho]

Indeed, as Gill just said about Manu, they operate on a wages to T/O ratio of 50%. But then again, they lack ambition.

 

Everyone on here seems to be an expert on Pompey's finances (although the copious use of "could", "might", "maybes" etc never fails to make me laugh). Would anyone care to enlighten me as to Saints wages to turnover ratio? Or don't you actually know?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Any skate care to enlighten me as to the Riquelme/Maradona/Pompey Village/Toilet Bowl situation?

[saintjay77]

Everyone on here seems to be an expert on Pompey's finances (although the copious use of "could", "might", "maybes" etc never fails to make me laugh). Would anyone care to enlighten me as to Saints wages to turnover ratio? Or don't you actually know?

 

TBF Saints turnover at the mo is not a financial problem and hasn't run the club into so much debt. I think our administration was down to the bank calling in the over draft. Wages were never paid late or at risk of not being paid. That would suggest that our turn over covered the wages at least.

 

Talking of "could", "might" and "maybe", what term did you use for Maradona and Riquelme?

[rallyboy]

someone needs to get hold of pfc123 and let him know that Ho's mad uncle in the attic has hijacked his account, he needs to get that sorted in case someone thinks it's been him posting this stuff today.

 

That aside, don't like to be repetitive but...the figures don't stack up, they need cash!

 

An average gate of 17K paying customers??!! Hilarious.

The first thing you have to accept is that your wagebill is HUGE.

When in the Prem you were paying Champions Lge wages, in the Championship you are paying Prem wages.

 

You have some fairly hefty transfer fees due shortly, plus the CVA payments, secured and unsecured, so I would estimate the losses running consistently near to £1M a month - while the redirected football creditor payments quietly eat away at the only significant future revenues.

And of course you have AA's ongoing fees to cover.

 

If we look at those wages you could say that for the money being paid you could run two mid-table championship teams, or even Wigan or Blackpool - it is astronomical and unsustainable for the quality involved - and that's without including the image rights deals that half of those players have and that AA openly admits to, and defended against the HMRC, that's how the likes of Utaka's costs bump out.

 

How can they raise funds? Any player sale will only be to create cashback for Chanrai, so they are still a long way off solvent.

 

While they were previously conning the competition by paying too much for players, their new owner is now on the wrong end of this bizarre strategy.

I honestly think that Chanrai was conned into lending in the first place and it looks now like he hasn't even done due diligence and seen the wagebill - that would be your first cut as a new owner.

For instance he has just been saddled with honouring a brand new contract to a 36 year old injury prone player who is one tackle away from the glue factory - plus the 45 year old Nigerian, Chanrai has dimly inherited a poor value for money squad.

 

 

 

 

For the one thousandth time - big cash is the only answer!*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*not another effing loan, that creates more overheads and debt.

[Corporate Ho]

TBF Saints turnover at the mo is not a financial problem and hasn't run the club into so much debt. I think our administration was down to the back calling in the over draft. Wages were never paid late or at risk of not being paid. That would suggest that our turn over covered the wages at least.

 

Talking of "could", "might" and "maybe", what term did you use for Maradona and Riquelme?

 

You scumlettes seem to constantly refer to me as having said that Maradona would become Pompeys manager, that we'd sign lots of Argentinian stars etc. If anyone can post a link to a quote of me saying that Id love to see it. Away you go girls, find that quote. Or maybe find one where I said either the plans for a stadium at The Hard or at Tipner would definitely happen. How about posting a link to a quote from me saying that?

 

Happy hunting girls

[Whitey Grandad]

Is VAT payable on ticket prices? I assume it is.

 

Absolutely. Although the club can take the VAT from the paying supporter, but they don't have to pass it on to HMRC, just so long as they have the word 'Portsmouth' in their name.

[Whitey Grandad]

£15m + 12.8% employers NI contribution = £16.92m. Now I am never sure whether these wages are nett or gross of tax and employees NI. I suspect that some might have their tax "paid" for them so I wouldn't be surprised if the £16.92m was actually closer to £20m.

 

You forgot to include 'image rights'.

[dubai_phil]

£16m in parachute payments in reserve old chum. So, even if we've burned up the first years worth early, we STILL have enough to get by. Thats what you call a reserve AND contingency. We'll be just fine....

 

Nope. Chanrai lent the club money - that is how he got into the sorry mess in the first place - exact figure is on about page 300 it was secured against assets of the club hence his status in the CVA.

 

Then there was the advance paid last season by the PL as a special case. And then the cash to the finance company for paying up the transfer fees quickly

 

I don't think for one moment that you will do anything but keep going, but just be very careful, you don't have any chickens left to count until the next sucker comes along

[saintjay77]

You scumlettes seem to constantly refer to me as having said that Maradona would become Pompeys manager, that we'd sign lots of Argentinian stars etc. If anyone can post a link to a quote of me saying that Id love to see it. Away you go girls, find that quote. Or maybe find one where I said either the plans for a stadium at The Hard or at Tipner would definitely happen. How about posting a link to a quote from me saying that?

 

Happy hunting girls

 

If you didn't say it then fair enough I take it back. I'm only going on the common theme that it's something you came on here spouting. Even if you said it in jest it's pretty funny so you can't blame people for coming back to it.

 

Anyway back to your club.... I know your not happy that chainrai is still around so what do you think is next for your club? Can you see things going from strength to strength or are you worried this is a false Dawn?

[angelman]

So to add to their wage bill and other outgoings (everyone seems to have forgotten about player trading) is the interest charge on the £17m or what ever it is Chin lent them. If it is being charges at 28% (according to some) then that is a nice tidy £4.76m in interest payments alone. However, I can't believe that it would be that much but still a couple of mill +.