Pompey Takeover Saga

[marc_saint]

James Hurst joins West Brom on loan. SSN

[marc_saint]

Kitson has joined skates from stoke as part of the Wilson deal. Sky sports news unsure as to the situation with Liam Lawrence at the moment

[pedg]

from bbc:

 

1832: Stoke look like making it a quartet of Deadline-Day signings, with the news that deals for Eidur Gudjohnsen (from Monaco), Jermaine Pennant (from Real Zaragoza) and Marc Wilson (from Portsmouth) were all pushed through before the 1800 BST deadline. Official confirmation on those expected soon.

[JackFrost]

"Stoke fans - get the party started. Jermaine Pennant has joined on loan from Real Zaragoza until January, Eidur Gudjohnsen on loan from Monaco, and Marc Wilson has arrived from Portsmouth, with Liam Lawrence and David Kitson going in the opposite direction. Revolving doors-tastic."

[seaempty]

A brilliant moment on SSN this evening re the Wilson deal. When the reporter outside the Britannia stadium announced that Kitson and Lawrence were leaving, there was a big cheer from the crowd of Stoke fans around him. Then he revealed that the transfer hadn't gone through as smoothly as was hoped, because Lawrence and Kitson didn't want to go to Portsmouth.

[JackFrost]

A brilliant moment on SSN this evening re the Wilson deal. When the reporter outside the Britannia stadium announced that Kitson and Lawrence were leaving, there was a big cheer from the crowd of Stoke fans around him. Then he revealed that the transfer hadn't gone through as smoothly as was hoped, because Lawrence and Kitson didn't want to go to Portsmouth.

 

I take it the FL have ratified this?

 

So that's 3 players Pompey have bought whilst under the transfer embargo, if so.

 

Sounds like Lawrence and Kitson are going there simply to make up the numbers

[Merovingian]

lol to be fair who WOULD want to sign for us at the moment

[JackFrost]

Tommy Smith signs for QPR

[Rusty]

No it dosen't.

Ner ner na ner ner.

[rallyboy]

so to clarify the state of the business (using the term in its loosest sense)

 

Wilson plus Smith has generated approx £2.5M gross, which equals maybe £1.5M in real terms (if Chanrai doesn't trouser it).

With their Prem contracts Kitson and Lawrence must be on more money than the two departees so I would imagine they have increased their overheads despite offloading youngsters as well.

How they can sign players when they are not allowed to sign players is a whole different matter for the FL to address and explain.

 

 

The firesale has generated maybe half of their minimum target required to service the CVA, and the wages are still way over what they need to be.

As a performance on CVA Part I - I think AA gets 2 out of 10.

 

This is the next crunch time, how do they pay the wages and the CVA until January?

Time for the Bank of Chanrai to open it's doors again.

[mickn]

so to clarify the state of the business (using the term in its loosest sense)

 

Wilson plus Smith has generated approx £2.5M gross, which equals maybe £1.5M in real terms (if Chanrai doesn't trouser it).

With their Prem contracts Kitson and Lawrence must be on more money than the two departees so I would imagine they have increased their overheads despite offloading youngsters as well.

How they can sign players when they are not allowed to sign players is a whole different matter for the FL to address and explain.

 

 

The firesale has generated maybe half of their minimum target required to service the CVA, and the wages are still way over what they need to be.

As a performance on CVA Part I - I think AA gets 2 out of 10.

 

This is the next crunch time, how do they pay the wages and the CVA until January?

Time for the Bank of Chanrai to open it's doors again.

 

and i'm assuming Utaka and Nugent are still there on huge wages

[brightspark]

so to clarify the state of the business (using the term in its loosest sense)

 

Wilson plus Smith has generated approx £2.5M gross, which equals maybe £1.5M in real terms (if Chanrai doesn't trouser it).

With their Prem contracts Kitson and Lawrence must be on more money than the two departees so I would imagine they have increased their overheads despite offloading youngsters as well.

How they can sign players when they are not allowed to sign players is a whole different matter for the FL to address and explain.

 

 

The firesale has generated maybe half of their minimum target required to service the CVA, and the wages are still way over what they need to be.

As a performance on CVA Part I - I think AA gets 2 out of 10.

 

This is the next crunch time, how do they pay the wages and the CVA until January?

Time for the Bank of Chanrai to open it's doors again.

 

After all that has happened so far it would not surprise me if they find yet more illegal methods to sort this out without being caught. Cheats FC are a disgrace. The football league are a disgrace. Stoke are also a disgrace for clearly showing affection to a club rotten to its core.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

How on earth can Pompey sign two players from a Premier League side when they are under a transfer embargo? Can anyone from the football league explain this because it looks like breaking the rules to me. Or maybe the football league are complicit in it. Any of them been to Pakistan lately?

[Jimmy_D]

How on earth can Pompey sign two players from a Premier League side when they are under a transfer embargo? Can anyone from the football league explain this because it looks like breaking the rules to me. Or maybe the football league are complicit in it. Any of them been to Pakistan lately?

 

FL still has to ratify them. They haven't actually finally signed them yet.

[pedg]

FL still has to ratify them. They haven't actually finally signed them yet.

 

Indeed, the only confirmation I have seen of the Kitson deal is a claim on SSN. No sign of him on the transfer list on the BBC site.

[rallyboy]

so have they 'done' a deal that will fall apart when the FL remind them they have an embargo, or have they worked their way around it?

Wouldn't surprise me if they have just ignored it and will claim a misunderstanding/loss of letter etc.

 

Bearing in mind the league is also keeping an eye on their overheads so they don't get themselves into trouble again, the fact that the deal increases their wagebill won't make it look too clever.

 

Signing Kanu after redefining him as a free agent or bringing in low-paid loan players to fill the squad I can accept, but signing two players from the Prem on big wages?

Forget the Wilson element, according to the CVA plan that should have been simply a sale to raise money, not a swap deal that increases overheads.

 

Have they now conned the FL as well?

If they pull this one off you have to admire their cheek.

[JackFrost]

Have they even signed Kanu?

 

AA was talking about it a while back but haven't seen it officially announced

[tony13579]

.....

[OldNick]

so have they 'done' a deal that will fall apart when the FL remind them they have an embargo, or have they worked their way around it?

Wouldn't surprise me if they have just ignored it and will claim a misunderstanding/loss of letter etc.

 

Bearing in mind the league is also keeping an eye on their overheads so they don't get themselves into trouble again, the fact that the deal increases their wagebill won't make it look too clever.

 

Signing Kanu after redefining him as a free agent or bringing in low-paid loan players to fill the squad I can accept, but signing two players from the Prem on big wages?

Forget the Wilson element, according to the CVA plan that should have been simply a sale to raise money, not a swap deal that increases overheads.

 

Have they now conned the FL as well?

If they pull this one off you have to admire their cheek.

 

With regards to playing squad, as is Football League policy, clubs have to be able to field a team and players may be permitted to be registered to enable this to happen. In Portsmouth’s case they had a number of first year professionals on their books but under League regulations first year professionals do not count towards the requisite number of 20 for a first team squad. In addition Portsmouth had recently sold and loaned out players. Due to their shortage of players (and based on the ’20 man squad’ rule) the League approved loan arrivals at the club (one player has since joined them on loan during the close season – Ibrahima Sonko).

 

 

however it would be fair to suggest that the releasing and loaning out of players is vital for the club to reduce debt/wage bill so that is something that will always happen in the event of an administration. The League has simply applied the rules voted in by all member clubs and in this instance sanctioned a loan signing to enable the club to meet regulations stating that clubs should have a registered first team squad of 20 players (which they still currently do not have). For the first three league games of the season for example they have had a matchday squad of 15 rather than the maximum 18.

 

 

 

We cannot comment on individual incoming player wages but it would fair to suggest that Portsmouth would be applying a ‘Championship structure’ to their squad under the control of the administrators.

 

 

 

It is worth stating that The League does not run these member clubs. When a private company suffers an insolvency event or encounters financial problems it falls under the remit of the insolvency law that operates in this country. The League is there to offer advice in relation to our policies and regulations. We are not there to ‘bail clubs out’ or take over the running of the clubs. That is a matter for the owners or, should they be appointed by the court, the administrators.(end)

 

The above are 2 extracts from correspondence from the FL.

They have found a way to get around the embargo, clever boy that AA and time and again he has outflanked the opinion on here.

[Merovingian]

wilson was on big wages as was smith - I would suspect that both were on alot more than kitson and lawrence have been signed on, I am sure 10k a week was built in as a maximum for any players incoming in he 1st season in the CCC

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

wilson was on big wages as was smith - I would suspect that both were on alot more than kitson and lawrence have been signed on, I am sure 10k a week was built in as a maximum for any players incoming in he 1st season in the CCC

 

I'm not exactly saying you're wrong but it is hard to believe that Wilson would have been on big wages when he's only recently become a first team regular and that at a time when the finances were known to be very dodgy - when did he sign his last Pompey contract?

 

Also I find it hard to believe that Kitson and Lawrence will have taken massive wage cuts to join Pompey - I can only imagine that Stoke are subsidising the wages.

[OldNick]

wilson was on big wages as was smith - I would suspect that both were on alot more than kitson and lawrence have been signed on, I am sure 10k a week was built in as a maximum for any players incoming in he 1st season in the CCC

 

there was a bit of confusion on SSN , as they said Wilson was a loan! No doubt just said it wrong,

[gaz]

Pompy can sign anyone they like, how many they like.....

 

....but until the FL ratifies them, they aren't allowed to set foot on a pitch. And who says they will?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

 

Football League correspondence:

 

We cannot comment on individual incoming player wages but it would fair to suggest that Portsmouth would be applying a Championship structure to their squad under the control of the administrators.

 

No it would NOT be fair to suggest that - Pompey have a track record of operating a wage policy that is completely excessive and unsustainable - you are muppets if you think things will be different now, administrators or not

 

 

 

It is worth stating that The League does not run these member clubs. When a private company suffers an insolvency event or encounters financial problems it falls under the remit of the insolvency law that operates in this country.

 

Football Creditors Rule anyone?

 

 

For clarity - the comments in red above are mine.

 

The Football League need to grow some balls and deal with the cheats and slimeballs currently propping up their Championship. They are clearly hell bent on living beyond their means in the Championship, just like they did in the Prem.

Edited 1 September, 2010 by Kingsbridge Saint

[saintjay77]

wilson was on big wages as was smith - I would suspect that both were on alot more than kitson and lawrence have been signed on, I am sure 10k a week was built in as a maximum for any players incoming in he 1st season in the CCC

 

Did they get rid of Utaka in the end? Sky Sports reported he is believed to be on 80k per week which is slightly over the 10k limit they are now operating.

 

I can imagine Stoke are paying a portion of Kitson and Lawrence wages but that seems to be normal for most prem clubs loaning to Championship clubs. I would have thought Man City are maying most of Bellamys wages and Cardiff only paying a little.

 

But if Pompy are still paying some of the massive wages that they couldnt shift then bringing any extra wages in must put them on shaky ground.

[OldNick]

 

I can imagine Stoke are paying a portion of Kitson and Lawrence wages but that seems to be normal for most prem clubs loaning to Championship clubs.

 

But if Pompy are still paying some of the massive wages that they couldnt shift then bringing any extra wages in must put them on shaky ground.

As in all things Pompey it is all a bit unclear. Im not sure if Kitson etc are loans or signings as it was said that Kitson was holding back as he wanted extra money from Stoke

[seaempty]

Official site says that kitson signed a 3-year deal, and Lawrence signed a 4-year one. So Pompey must be paying all wages, although I would imagine Stoke compensated them for taking a drop in wages. You would think they are close to the £10kpw limit, though.

[TopGun]

Did they get rid of Utaka in the end? Sky Sports reported he is believed to be on 80k per week which is slightly over the 10k limit they are now operating.

 

He's still bleeding them dry... and they can't offload him for free as nobody else will pay those wages to him.

[FMPR]

For clarity - the comments in red above are mine.

 

The Football League need to grow some balls and deal with the cheats and slimeballs currently propping up their Championship. They are clearly hell bent on living beyond their means in the Championship, just like they did in the Prem.

 

So how much over our budgeted £13m wage budget for this year do you believe we are?

[Gemmel]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Lampitt-There39s-more-to-come.6505798.jp

 

More players coming - nice touch

[saintjay77]

As in all things Pompey it is all a bit unclear. Im not sure if Kitson etc are loans or signings as it was said that Kitson was holding back as he wanted extra money from Stoke

 

Ah of course, they are meant to be transfers so Pompy would be fixed for all there wages officially.

 

It could be that Kitson is still getting some kind of payment from Stoke and if its to match the kind of money he would lose due to dropping to pompy's wage bracket then I doubt Stoke have paid a massive wedge up front.

 

Could it be that Stoke will be making payments for some time to come? Is that even alloud in the FL?

 

Like others have said however, the FL dont seem to have ratified all these signings pompy seem to be making, kanu doesnt have a shirt number yet so is he all signed and seeled to play for them or not?

 

It wouldnt suprise me in the slightest if pompy sign whoever they like and all around will bend over and let them have what they want. But it would be nice to see the powers that be at least showing that they want clubs to do things the right way rather than use loop holes and dodges to get things made easy for them.

[teamsaint]

So how much over our budgeted £13m wage budget for this year do you believe we are?

 

well the £13m budget is also fantasy football.

 

The parachute payments are pretty much spoken for, (as I understand it), and income for a champ side at you kind of gates is unlikely to be much over £12 m in total.

Bristol city had a TOTAL income of around £12m in their last financial year.....

 

Quite how AA came up with the £13m figure and made it all add up is a mystery to me.

[saintjay77]

He's still bleeding them dry... and they can't offload him for free as nobody else will pay those wages to him.

 

 

Who else have they got on massive wages still? It must have helped to get rid of Wilson but he cant of been on anything near 80k per week so must have been more available to other clubs as wages could be offered to match.

 

The team spirit will soon start to faulter when half the team are on the 10k limit but the other half are lapping up 50k and upwards.

[saintjay77]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Lampitt-There39s-more-to-come.6505798.jp

 

More players coming - nice touch

 

Good to see them planning more additions when the ones they currently have are not cleared yet.

 

"But the main thing from our point of view is that we have managed to get it over the line, subject to Football League clearance."

[saintjay77]

So how much over our budgeted £13m wage budget for this year do you believe we are?

 

Well Utaka is taking up around 4160000 of that yearly budget and there is still Mokoena, Nugent, Mullins and Brown all still on higher wages than the 10k limit I would think and although no team numbers you still have Hreidarsson, Rocha and Kanu on your books.

 

Do you really think your even close to the 13 mill budget for this year?

[Weston Super Saint]

So how much over our budgeted £13m wage budget for this year do you believe we are?

 

All relative really.

 

Even if you were close to the £13m wage budget for the year, that needed to be financed by about £17m in player sales didn't it?

 

How far short of the £17m income are you?

 

The figures don't add up, just like they haven't for the last 5 years. Still I'm sure the Android is getting ready to get stuck in to the forensic accounting exercise isn't he?

[benjii]

So how much over our budgeted £13m wage budget for this year do you believe we are?

 

No idea but a £13m wage budget will kill you. That will be karma.

 

Oh, and **** off you despicable ****.

[JackFrost]

All relative really.

 

Even if you were close to the £13m wage budget for the year, that needed to be financed by about £17m in player sales didn't it?

 

How far short of the £17m income are you?

 

The figures don't add up, just like they haven't for the last 5 years. Still I'm sure the Android is getting ready to get stuck in to the forensic accounting exercise isn't he?

 

They may not add up and I may be wrong but I believe the person checking the accuracy of AA's CVA is AA.

[saintjay77]

They may not add up and I may be wrong but I believe the person checking the accuracy of AA's CVA is AA.

 

I have never really understood that. The administrator can pretty much do what he likes cause he can sweep everything under the rug when he is done.

 

Is there no way his work is ratified or held to account?

[FMPR]

Well Utaka is taking up around 4160000 of that yearly budget and there is still Mokoena, Nugent, Mullins and Brown all still on higher wages than the 10k limit I would think and although no team numbers you still have Hreidarsson, Rocha and Kanu on your books.

 

Do you really think your even close to the 13 mill budget for this year?

 

I have us break even now with Kanu signed. We havent signed Rocha or HH. THis is basically due to the fact we have a lack of middle earners as such. They are either high or low in football terms.

[Lord Duckhunter]

My mate the Skate reckons that Kitson was happy to sign but that Lawerence didn't want to. Pulis told him, he would not be in the 25 and would have to move to get first team action. Lawernce wanted to go to Skates on loan, but that would have meant Pulis missing out on Wilson as there were other Clubs interested in him. In the end Lawerence insisted on a get out clause,my mate claims this was the hold up. The get out clause is so one sided that he reckons Lawernece will be off next summer. His source is his Dad who used to play for the Skates and still knows a few up there.However he did also say that Brown was going to Celtic, and that turned out to be wrong.

[OldNick]

I have us break even now with Kanu signed. We havent signed Rocha or HH. THis is basically due to the fact we have a lack of middle earners as such. They are either high or low in football terms.

 

isn't there somebodies death you can have a s****** at?

[saintjay77]

I have us break even now with Kanu signed. We havent signed Rocha or HH. THis is basically due to the fact we have a lack of middle earners as such. They are either high or low in football terms.

 

Trouble is, the high earners are stupidly high. Utaka alone takes up 1 third of the budget and 10k wage cap is really cheap for championship wages. Half your squad would get double that elsewhere. But the half that would are prob still on there prem wages that are prob way over that 10k cap so happy to sit there milking the club.

[Merovingian]

utaka is on around 35k per week

nugent 25k

[pedg]

utaka is on around 35k per week

nugent 25k

 

Is that before or after image rights?

[Merovingian]

lol - who can tell pedg who can tell

[Dark Munster]

so have they 'done' a deal that will fall apart when the FL remind them they have an embargo, or have they worked their way around it?

Wouldn't surprise me if they have just ignored it and will claim a misunderstanding/loss of letter etc.

 

Bearing in mind the league is also keeping an eye on their overheads so they don't get themselves into trouble again, the fact that the deal increases their wagebill won't make it look too clever.

 

Signing Kanu after redefining him as a free agent or bringing in low-paid loan players to fill the squad I can accept, but signing two players from the Prem on big wages?

Forget the Wilson element, according to the CVA plan that should have been simply a sale to raise money, not a swap deal that increases overheads.

 

Have they now conned the FL as well?

If they pull this one off you have to admire their cheek.

I think you also have to admire their brown envelopes.

[JackFrost]

I have never really understood that. The administrator can pretty much do what he likes cause he can sweep everything under the rug when he is done.

 

Is there no way his work is ratified or held to account?

 

This is what i want to know. my uneducated guess would be that if the creditors don't get their part of the deal that any one of them can apply for a winding up order.

 

Judging by some of the predictions on here about how far out AA's CVA is, this would (in theory) look inevitable.

 

I may have just posted complete rubbish but that's how I understand it

[eurosaint]

I wish that we had a 'transfer embargo', they have signed Ashdown, Sonko, Dickinson, Kitson, Lawrence and Flahavan whilst without one, we only got Richardson, Dickson and Butterfield !!

Oh how the other half lives, eh !

[benjii]

Trouble is, the high earners are stupidly high. Utaka alone takes up 1 third of the budget and 10k wage cap is really cheap for championship wages. Half your squad would get double that elsewhere. But the half that would are prob still on there prem wages that are prob way over that 10k cap so happy to sit there milking the club.

 

Not true. £10k is a very good Championship wage.