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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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landford.saint

landford.saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would fully agree that sometimes I'm a bit slow on the uptake. But didn't AA's brief in court make a point of how the current players were fully entitled to vote for the CVA as they were 'owed' by the club and this helped him obtained his 75+% he needed to keep the CVA. So how come these exact same players are "acting like children" now they want to stay and get the money they voted for and he was more than happy to recognize as rightfully theirs?

Edited by landford.saint
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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
Apparently it's not enough and he wants to stay. Being a youth-teamer he's probably not on silly wages and is now captain as well, so might be an incentive for him to stay.

 

Yes, but to get anywhere near the £15m stated in the CVA for player sales they should be snapping up the offer. "It's not enough" is irrelevant in the circumstances as Pompey aren't in a position to dictate terms if they want to fulfill their CVA's pitiful returns to creditors.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
For those interested here is the Judgment handed down, in full

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2010/2013.html

 

Thanks, I have just read through it and one salient point leaps out at me. The club entered into contracts with players on the understanding that it would receive income from the Premier League. These contracts would of necessity involve paying PAYE and NI to HMRC. The budgeting for these contracts assumes the receipt of current and future payments from the Premier league. The Premier League's rules give it the discretion of not paying these moneys if said club were to be liquidated, but it can continue to pay them if the club were to enter administration. At the time that many of these contracts were agreed administration was a genuine possibility, if not probability. The critical point is the relationship between the club and the Premier League as to the certainty that the club will receive all monies owing to it. Surely the Premier League has the status of a 'holding company' that owes money to its associated 'members' and has an obligation to pay it? Otherwise, what is to stop any other set of companies from forming into a league that handles almost all their income and only pays out at its discretion? I would expect this to be considered during the future hearing as to the 'football secured creditor' status, and if the matter is not resolved legislation to follow.

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted
Thanks, I have just read through it and one salient point leaps out at me. The club entered into contracts with players on the understanding that it would receive income from the Premier League. These contracts would of necessity involve paying PAYE and NI to HMRC. The budgeting for these contracts assumes the receipt of current and future payments from the Premier league. The Premier League's rules give it the discretion of not paying these moneys if said club were to be liquidated, but it can continue to pay them if the club were to enter administration. At the time that many of these contracts were agreed administration was a genuine possibility, if not probability. The critical point is the relationship between the club and the Premier League as to the certainty that the club will receive all monies owing to it. Surely the Premier League has the status of a 'holding company' that owes money to its associated 'members' and has an obligation to pay it? Otherwise, what is to stop any other set of companies from forming into a league that handles almost all their income and only pays out at its discretion? I would expect this to be considered during the future hearing as to the 'football secured creditor' status, and if the matter is not resolved legislation to follow.

 

Becasue the Holding Company would need to agree a price for the product, to be universally charged, thus making it a Cartel, and therefore illegal.......oh

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
I do like the way they are looking at the premier league teams and wondering who they might get..

 

"you are all barstewards and you wanted us to die......... but could you let us have some cheap players please, if you could foot the bill that would be dandy"

Well those barstewards voted to increase the parachute payments to £48 m (more than 3 times what we got), so even against all logic it wouldn't be too surprising to see them giving another helping hand to Cheats FC.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Contracts torn up because they are crap, thereby bringing the total to

 

CHEATING, LYING BASTARDS.

 

It just shows how easy it is to get around rules if you have no shame.

I watched the first 20 mins of their game last night and got tired of hearing how their squad had been cut, (ian Darke is a Pompey fan) and the Exodus, not a word how the nation and charities had been robbed

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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

Posted
Posted
It just shows how easy it is to get around rules if you have no shame.

I watched the first 20 mins of their game last night and got tired of hearing how their squad had been cut, (ian Darke is a Pompey fan) and the Exodus, not a word how the nation and charities had been robbed

 

I like Ian Darke but it was sickening last night. Especially referring to how good their fans are; for a start, Stevenage Boro fans outsung them all night. For seconds, he didn't once mention their paltry away followings at Wigan, Sunderland etc ....

 

Poor old Pompey, eh?

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

panic ye not, the thread has ground to a halt a couple of times before but they've always pumped life into it by doing something criminal or saying something absurd - Storrie getting arrested between non-firesales, Grant bothering prossies, the kitman's wages - there's always some unlikely stunt that crops up to keep us amused.

 

So I have faith in AA, he has a comical moment welling up inside him at all times, and if he doesn't deliver, Cotterill has demonstrated the potential to spout deluded rubbish about getting the embargo lifted for good behaviour, or we can just look at TCWTB and feel better about ourselves.

 

This is just the silly season lull before the next hilarious storm, we will still be 'aving a larf mush' for a while.....

 

 

Though on this subject I guess we need to accept that the comedy can't go on forever, we will need an exit strategy, this thread has been too special just to be flushed down a toilet, it needs a proper send off when the time comes.

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Saint Keith

Saint Keith

Posted
Posted
we will need an exit strategy, this thread has been too special just to be flushed down a toilet, it needs a proper send off when the time comes.

 

we should have an "end of thread" party for everyone who has posted on it. should just about fill the fratton end i reckon, which is more than they will be doing this season

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anothersaintinsouthsea

anothersaintinsouthsea

Posted
Posted

Pompey are still in administration and have yet to be taken over by Chanrai so the thread still has some mileage. (Adopting Keagan voice) I would love it, just love it if somehow Rob Lloyd managed to squeeze enough wedge to take over. According to AA he was mooting the idea of a flotation to raise cash. How hilarious would that be.

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted (edited)
Has anyone posted up a transcript of the HMRC QC's comments at the point he announced there was to be no appeal? Is this in the public domain yet? If not, I'm sure I can find a reference to the words he used somewhere..... that'd give us a few more pages of "debate", i'm sure.... ;-)

 

Gregory Mitchell QC, appearing for HMRC, said that,

under what was known as the Football Creditors Rule: "One class scoops the pool and the rest are left out in the cold."

 

HMRC also argued it was owed £13million more than the £24million value put on its claim. The administrators disputed the accuracy of the taxman's figures and assessments, and today the judge ruled in their favour.

 

 

 

Later HMRC said in a statement:

"HMRC is naturally disappointed not to have won this appeal and we can confirm that we do not intend to appeal.

 

"Our aim when pursuing debt of any kind is to achieve a fair outcome for the taxpayer and we will take this forward in the wider context of the football industry through separate and outstanding legal proceedings over the status of the so-called Football Creditors Rule.

 

"This is an important and complex judgment and until we have had the opportunity to study it in detail we can't comment further."

Edited by tony13579
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Eastcowzer

Eastcowzer

Posted
Posted
Pompey are still in administration and have yet to be taken over by Chanrai so the thread still has some mileage. (Adopting Keagan voice) I would love it, just love it if somehow Rob Lloyd managed to squeeze enough wedge to take over. According to AA he was mooting the idea of a flotation to raise cash. How hilarious would that be.

 

The only thing that I would like to see floated is P----y, past the Sallyport and into the wide BLUE yonder.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Pompey are still in administration and have yet to be taken over by Chanrai so the thread still has some mileage. (Adopting Keagan voice) I would love it, just love it if somehow Rob Lloyd managed to squeeze enough wedge to take over. According to AA he was mooting the idea of a flotation to raise cash. How hilarious would that be.

 

Well it has been 290 years since the last South(-)Sea bubble caused people to buy pointless stocks.

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holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
following on from Oldnick's comment, at the weekend I ran into a senior journalist who had access to every minute of the trial evidence and whose outlet was covering it in great detail, with a very local bias.

I asked him what he thought about the case and he too was astonished at the result, and couldn't believe that they 'got away with it' on all counts.

 

It seems that the taxman's QC's performance was regarded by some as slightly lacking in quailty or direction, but I couldn't agree with that, I'm sure he did really well and just got unlucky on the day. Twice.

 

I think the taxman needs to take a long hard look at how they operate when they get to court in future.

It's no good putting in all the hard work on the books over several years if you then hand the baton to a vague simpleton.

 

I don't see how the current set up could win a watertight case against Storrie, Redknapp and Manadaric - in light of recent results they must regard themselves as untouchable, no matter what evidence is produced.

 

Rallyboy

 

Keep the faith, never surrender.

 

Taxman aside, they are drowning in liabilities, they are still in a mess.

 

The footballing communitty now recognises the skates as a stained enterprise, people will not want to work with them in the future, unless they have some marked cash to launder.

 

I know which team id rather support.

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MorningtonCrescent

MorningtonCrescent

Posted
Posted
Gregory Mitchell QC, appearing for HMRC, said that,

 

 

 

Later HMRC said in a statement:

 

I was more thinking of this part of the HMRC's statement about the process and the decision NOT to appeal....

 

HMRC QC:

“So far as HMRC are concerned, there are two important issues.

 

The first is the operation of the Football Creditor Rule, and as your Lordship is aware, this is subject to separate proceedings against the FA and PL. Those proceedings will continue and are not adversely affected by your Lordship’s judgement.

 

The second is that there are recoveries of at least, we say, £23.5 million, available to a liquidator appointed by the court on the basis of HMRC’s petition of the 23rd December 2009. The points which HMRC have taken in this appeal have resulted in it being made clear that the company will enter a Compulsory Liquidation at the end of the CVA. On this basis HMRC are content with your Lordship’s judgement and will not be seeking permission to appeal.”

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I was more thinking of this part of the HMRC's statement about the process and the decision NOT to appeal....

 

HMRC QC:

“So far as HMRC are concerned, there are two important issues.

 

The first is the operation of the Football Creditor Rule, and as your Lordship is aware, this is subject to separate proceedings against the FA and PL. Those proceedings will continue and are not adversely affected by your Lordship’s judgement.

 

The second is that there are recoveries of at least, we say, £23.5 million, available to a liquidator appointed by the court on the basis of HMRC’s petition of the 23rd December 2009. The points which HMRC have taken in this appeal have resulted in it being made clear that the company will enter a Compulsory Liquidation at the end of the CVA. On this basis HMRC are content with your Lordship’s judgement and will not be seeking permission to appeal.”

 

What does that mean?

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted

They are still deluding themselves.

 

Ian Darke to be honest shouldn't be let anywhere near a Poopey game on Sky - impartial my arse.

 

Kind of let the cat out of the bag a bit when he came over all 'Mottyesque' about the FA Cup team from 06 or whenever it was they cheated...(the first time).

 

He overlooked the REASON why they only had 4 on the bench - it was out of CHOICE. Same old story, bleating about 'losing players' - same speech that Uncle Avram gave at Old Trafford.

 

Shame on you Darkie....never mind, the whole country knows that your boys are still cheats. Nice to see that Marc Wilson was their only effective player last night....they'll sink like a stone when he's gone.

 

SAME OLD POMPEY...ALWAYS CHEATING

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MorningtonCrescent

MorningtonCrescent

Posted
Posted
What does that mean?

 

It would be interesting to see what some of the more learned people here make of it, but my take is this..

 

Point 1 shows they were trying to ensure the other actions underway were not prejudiced by this case, and the QC wanted it put on record.

 

The second is more intriguing. It shows that they expect to recover £23.5m through the liquidation process - going after the directors who were in charge at the time. My worry is that he expressly stated 'at the end of CVA', whereas it is widely understood that the liquidation will be in 9 months time.

 

HMRC are clearly going to throw all their efforts into the FCR hearings and the liquidation process that empowers them further to go after company directors personally. They'll be a few more nervous moments for Mr Storryteller and co. in the coming months! :-)

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anothersaintinsouthsea

anothersaintinsouthsea

Posted
Posted
Could there possibly be points deductions from the FL if Mandpric, Redkrap & Storyteller are found guilty of Tax Avoidance and/or if the FL decide to deduct some points for their impending, albeit agreed liquidation under the dodgy CVA?

 

There should be if the club benefitted from any evasion - IIRC wasn't one of the charges relating to a dodgy severance payment made to Eyal Berkovic that should have attracted top-whack income tax but didn't saving the club a couple of hundred K?

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mcjwills

mcjwills

Posted
Posted
Could there possibly be points deductions from the FL if Mandpric, Redkrap & Storyteller are found guilty of Tax Avoidance and/or if the FL decide to deduct some points for their impending, albeit agreed liquidation under the dodgy CVA?

 

Were not Luton deducted a shed load of points for dodgy dealing by a previous administration, and they reported it to the league. Think the reply was "Thanks for the info, Here have a huge points deduction"

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70's Mike

70's Mike

Posted
Posted
Were not Luton deducted a shed load of points for dodgy dealing by a previous administration, and they reported it to the league. Think the reply was "Thanks for the info, Here have a huge points deduction"

 

difference is to many bigwigs at Premier league and FA have been involved in pompey shambles

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mcjwills

mcjwills

Posted
Posted
AA is looking for a home draw against Saints in next round of league cup to boost funds' date=' shame his police costs will exceed revenue[/quote']

 

We are pooing ourselves after their mammoth victory against odd on favourites for the Champions League Stevenage last night !!! :)

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
difference is to many bigwigs at Premier league and FA have been involved in pompey shambles

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those bigwigs have received brown envelopes containing some of Cheats FC's ill-gotten gains, and maybe now some of the bigwigs from the FL too (look at how lenient they have been already regarding the embargo). Don't be surprised to see them avoid points deductions.

 

CHEATING, LYING, DESPICABLE BASTARDS.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
bigger club is measured in terms of winning stuff, you are not the bigger club

 

Well it's certainly not measured by the amount of fans that turn up.

 

You undersold semi final tickets by some 1300 while we, in a tin pot trophy final, sold out our allocation and exceeded it, through other areas of purchase, by some 70% (a ball park figure). Ending up with more than double your ground capacity attending a minor final. Can you explain your apathetic support?

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
I like Ian Darke but it was sickening last night. Especially referring to how good their fans are; for a start, Stevenage Boro fans outsung them all night. For seconds, he didn't once mention their paltry away followings at Wigan, Sunderland etc ....

 

Poor old Pompey, eh?

skate commentating on the skates. Should not be allowed. Edited by Chez
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Saint_John

Saint_John

Posted
Posted

 

Thanks for that, especially the bit

The charge was included in a series of rule breaches admitted by Portsmouth in March, for which they were fined a seven-figure sum.

 

 

 

Were not Luton deducted a shed load of points for dodgy dealing by a previous administration, and they reported it to the league. Think the reply was "Thanks for the info, Here have a huge points deduction"

 

Yes, but it was not the FL but the FA that charged them

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2008/Statement4Jun08

 

A case of "Double Standards" IMO.

 

 

 

However there is no record of the charge reported by the Torygraph on either the PL or FA sites as far as I can see.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
yep.

 

sorry when did they get bought out by someone other than Chainrai?

 

Even with wiping out a lot of the debt they are still on a completely unsustainable financial footing and are racking up more and more debt. Players in the vein of Utaka and KPB being there is just one illustration of this.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
So, back from 2 weeks away, and missed some 2000 odd posts. However from the scraps I picked up while away, is seems that Nickh was right all along and they have well and truly got away with it?

 

I felt that too many important people in world football, politics, and the underworld have too much to lose if the truth and ever came out.

Iam as disappointed as anyone that they have not had justice served. It is not a case of me being right and the very many well respected posters who have a wealth of knowledge being wrong (it is not over yet and I still hope there is a sting in the tail)but just me being negative as they have had a charmed life since their last administration.

Common sense would have said they were toast etc but I felt there were too many other factors in play that don't in normal business situations.

Football IMO is rotten from the top of the game down. hence why people who try to do things properly never succeed in pro football.

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saint lard

saint lard

Posted
Posted
Hi saint lard, still no news from the admin then about being a full member ?

morning sir,nope so i will presume my paypal did not go through for whatever reason and still have no clue to why admin cant accept my new email address.

Are you still planning a meet up at the Rochdale game,iirc,keep me posted.

Unfortunately i cant pm and i only have 1 post left today.

I,d best consider re sending my fiver,not liking this registered user only mullarky!

All the best chap.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
I felt that too many important people in world football, politics, and the underworld have too much to lose if the truth and ever came out.

Iam as disappointed as anyone that they have not had justice served. It is not a case of me being right and the very many well respected posters who have a wealth of knowledge being wrong (it is not over yet and I still hope there is a sting in the tail)but just me being negative as they have had a charmed life since their last administration.

Common sense would have said they were toast etc but I felt there were too many other factors in play that don't in normal business situations.

Football IMO is rotten from the top of the game down. hence why people who try to do things properly never succeed in pro football.

 

Unless Pompey get bought out and put on a financial footing they will continue to rack up debt and/or slide down the divisions. Where I can see this ultimately going is either they'll get promoted back to the PL in the next 2/3 years, be bought out and get away with it. Or continue in their current state, the FL attempts to bend more rules for them and it causes uproar within the other teams. Once the media latches on to it and starts broadcasting the negative PR, it's only that which will be enough for a judge to have the guts to send a football club to the wall.

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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
Unless Pompey get bought out and put on a financial footing they will continue to rack up debt and/or slide down the divisions. Where I can see this ultimately going is either they'll get promoted back to the PL in the next 2/3 years, be bought out and get away with it. Or continue in their current state, the FL attempts to bend more rules for them and it causes uproar within the other teams. Once the media latches on to it and starts broadcasting the negative PR, it's only that which will be enough for a judge to have the guts to send a football club to the wall.

 

I don't think that part's too likely to happen to be honest. While it's now become apparent just how much the Premier League did to keep Pompey going last season (more to save face themselves than for any other reason though), there's no indication that the FL will adopt a similar approach. They haven't lifted the transfer embargo in spite of repeated requests/bleating from Pompey; yes, they've allowed a player registration or two, but they haven't fallen hook, line and sinker for Pompey's 'poor little us' routine.

 

My bet would be that they'll be relegated this season and continue to struggle - financially in particular - unless they get a new owner with very substantial funds, and that's not looking remotely likely. Bear in mind that they're not even out of administration yet, in spite of HMRC's appeal failing. This saga has plenty of miles in it yet.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted
I don't think that part's too likely to happen to be honest. While it's now become apparent just how much the Premier League did to keep Pompey going last season (more to save face themselves than for any other reason though), there's no indication that the FL will adopt a similar approach. They haven't lifted the transfer embargo in spite of repeated requests/bleating from Pompey; yes, they've allowed a player registration or two, but they haven't fallen hook, line and sinker for Pompey's 'poor little us' routine.

 

My bet would be that they'll be relegated this season and continue to struggle - financially in particular - unless they get a new owner with very substantial funds, and that's not looking remotely likely. Bear in mind that they're not even out of administration yet, in spite of HMRC's appeal failing. This saga has plenty of miles in it yet.

 

and this is something that I am interested in. Winning this court case was supposed to pave the way for them coming out of administration, it's been a week and they're still in admin. Anyone know when their likely to come out? because surely in the meantime their racking up more and more debt.

 

At the end of the day, they have 12 months to come out because if they are still in admin this time next year the FL won't let them enter the league next season.

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