Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
in Golden Posts

 Share

Recommended Posts

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Phil. What's happened to the "Fake Doc"? Not a peep out of him since that arrest warrant whilst he was playing chess (?) in Moscow.

 

Seeing he was listed as a creditor, in for £5 mill, you would have thought he would be singing to the press by now.

 

Not a peep down here either. Don't get too worked up about the arrest warrant. Pretty much 90% of anyone ever involved in the property market down here over the past 5 years has a warrant out on them. Developers not developing, buyers not paying and dodgy dealers getting clocked for just "losing" billions.

 

Unlikely he's down here - everyone except Eric & me packed up and ran away as soon as the schools packed up, he's probably off selling property development opportunities in Helmand

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8886009.stm

By Dan Roan

BBC Sports News correspondent

 

 

Portsmouth have warned they could go out of business if Thursday's High Court tax ruling goes against them.

 

HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is seeking an order blocking a proposed Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) put together to help the club out of administration.

 

Richard Sheldon QC, arguing on Pompey's behalf, says the club will "probably be liquidated" if they lose the case.

 

He claimed they "will not be able to give the Football League the assurances it needs to fulfil its fixtures".

 

High Court judge Mr Justice Mann, who is overseeing the tax liability case at the High Court in London, says he will hand down his decision between 1500 BST and 1600 BST on Thursday.

 

DAN ROAN BLOG

The very existence of Pompey hangs in the balance

 

But the case is regarded as so important, it is likely to go the Court of Appeal whoever wins.

 

HMRC argued at a two-day hearing on Tuesday and Wednesday that the CVA was "unfair and seriously flawed" as it gave preference to football creditors, including players, who were able to claim up to 100% of monies owed them, while other creditors, including the Revenue, would receive much less.

 

Gregory Mitchell QC, appearing for HMRC, said: "One class scoops the pool and the rest are left out in the cold."

 

HMRC also argued it is owed £13m more than the £24m value put on its claim, although the administrators dispute the accuracy of the taxman's figures and assessments.

 

The case is being fast-tracked through the courts before the start of the football season.

 

Sheldon says a negative outcome for Portsmouth will prevent former owner Balram Chainrai, who put the club into administration in February, buying it for a second time.

 

"If the club is not sold it will clearly be relegated out of the Football League," said Sheldon.

 

"The administrators cannot give the assurances needed that this season's fixtures can be completed.

 

The Premier League clubs wanted Portsmouth to go to the wall and divide all the TV money among themselves

 

Pompey QC Richard Sheldon

"It will then go out of the Football League and into some distant league, but the reality is that it will probably go into liquidation because the administrators will not be able to fund the continued business."

 

Sheldon also claimed that Premier League clubs wanted Portsmouth to go bust last season when the full extent of their financial problems emerged.

 

He told the court that it was only the intervention of Premier League chief Richard Scudamore that saved the club.

 

"The clubs wanted Portsmouth to go to the wall and divide all the TV money among themselves," said Sheldon.

 

That prospect was avoided, however, when Scudamore persuaded the clubs to give Pompey an early parachute payment, allowing them to complete the season.

 

Portsmouth, who remain in administration, were docked nine points for becoming the first Premier League club to go into administration and were duly relegated at the end of the season.

 

They are due to kick off their Championship campaign on Saturday with an away fixture at Coventry City.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
Not a peep down here either. Don't get too worked up about the arrest warrant. Pretty much 90% of anyone ever involved in the property market down here over the past 5 years has a warrant out on them. Developers not developing, buyers not paying and dodgy dealers getting clocked for just "losing" billions.

 

Unlikely he's down here - everyone except Eric & me packed up and ran away as soon as the schools packed up, he's probably off selling property development opportunities in Helmand

 

Ahem ..... and remind me again just where you have been for the last 3 weeks ;)

 

Are you going to take Anna to John O Groats next?

 

I'm sure there must be some exclusive club, like The Mile High Club .... Blown from Lands End To John O Groats :toppa:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Ahem ..... and remind me again just where you have been for the last 3 weeks ;)

 

Are you going to take Anna to John O Groats next?

 

I'm sure there must be some exclusive club, like The Mile High Club .... Blown from Lands End To John O Groats :toppa:

 

Karma........

 

The skates should hear the result around 6pm.

 

And where will we all be at 6PM? Yep - at the perfect place to toast their toast - The Dubai Beer Festival. (You gonna pick us up on the way BTW?)

 

Personally, I still hope they will get away with this bit of it. Would simply mean the rivalry can continue, but their pain as other revelations, court cases and the like come out will be worse and for us even more enjoyable

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

Let's remember that if they do win today they are still a long way adrift, someone will have just given them a toothpick to hang onto - I see no money and that's the only thing that can save them.

 

But as they helped themselves to interest free loans from the taxpayer and local businesses and used them to win the cup I see little hope.

They stole from charities and traded insolvently.

We now find out that having misled the Prem with false accounts to open the transfer window and begged for advanced payments to help them manage debt they instead took this cash and brought in new players in an attempt to shaft the very chairmen who had just helped them, and to try and win the cup, while the debt just laid there and gathered interest - but they didn't care because they were going to offer them 4p in the £ a year, less expenses.

Calculated and disgraceful behaviour.

 

I'm pretty much with Sid on this, I have no great desire to see them liquidated but how long can a criminal and corrupt business be allowed to continue, especially when I see no apologies or humble pie, just gobby arrogance and V flicking.

They have at every turn gambled everything for gain, it worked to an extent, FA Cup, Europe - well now it's time to pay for those gambles and sympathy will be in short supply.

The other Prem clubs must be livid at the manner in which their assistance was abused, had one of them gone down instead of Pompey there would have been a riot.

 

And just when you think there are new people at the helm and maybe they are due a fresh start we have Steve Cotterill trying to fiddle his way around the transfer embargo, he has been allowed to bring in three players as a result of deliberately massaging the squad figures, now he is demanding more.

They are still pushing the regulations at every turn - they still don't get it - stop cheating!

 

So I hope that we see some justice today or over the next few years, I'm pleased that we can now support the theory that the 4-1 win was illegal, Scudamore says he was lied to, they brought in those extra players illegally, I'm just surprised to find out that it isn't just us bitter locals who feel like this but there must be the likes of Birmingham and Sunderland fans who are livid to discover that the FA Cup was not an even playing field last year.

It seems that Pompey have not been operating legally for several seasons, clearly gaining an on pitch advantage through financial misdemeanours - I was astonished when they won the cup, I couldn't work out how they did it, well we all know now that it was a con.

I don't recognise it, there was no cup winner in 2008.

 

So I just hope that today we start to see a few fans admitting that their club has acted disgracefully and that maybe they get the chance to make a fresh start lower down.

If a new pompey appeared back up the league in ten years time through hard work and good football practice I would be quietly impressed and maybe pleased to do battle with them again, as long as we win, but this club is forever tainted and looks beyond help.

And that's why I would shed no tears if Sir George put the sick animal down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sevvy

Sevvy

Posted
Posted
Assuming the appeal will end 6pm friday afternoon

I have booked the Red Arrows 7pm friday for cellibration up and down Southampton water.

 

Why not put on a large firework display over the water whilst your at it

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

Are these idiots for real?

 

 

PompeyLor Posted on 05/08/2010 09:17

No point blaming the Revenue

Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message

 

So there's no point asking them why they allowed the payment to be missed every year? Would you run a business like that? I'm sure they let us individuals do that.

 

Only a dodgy takeover made the HMRC wake up and realise they'd not been keeping their eye on the ball. Without the arabs messing everything up, we'd still be blissfully unaware that we're not paying tax..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ashtead Saint

Ashtead Saint

Posted
Posted

The Sun’s shining, and it’s time to think about some ‘What if’ scenarios if HMRC win the appeal this afternoon (subject to any subsequent appeals to the Court of Appeal/Supreme Court).

 

1. The first question is whether PFC will go into liquidation more or less immediately. HMRC winning the appeal does not legally affect the continuation of the administration and the administration has the effect of imposing a moratorium on winding up proceedings. Accordingly, HMRC cannot by itself force a liquidation immediately even if it wins today. However, Sheldon told the court yesterday that if HMRC were to win, PFC would “probably be liquidated”, which brings us on to the next question.

 

2. Will PFC will be able to start the season? This turns on whether AA can give the FL the required undertaking that PFC will be able to complete its fixtures over the course of the season. That in turn depends on whether Chanrai is willing to either (i) buy the club off the Administrators without a CVA, taking the points hit and with a big question mark over what happens to the remaining Parachute Payments or (ii) fund the Administrators to enable PFC to play out the season.

 

3. Sheldon told the court yesterday that a negative outcome for PFC would prevent Chainrai buying it. He has a duty not to mislead the court so if he said that, then that is what the Administrators will have told him Chanrai has said. Is Chanrai bluffing – who knows? Given that player sales have brought in less than anticipated, that HMRC have their sights firmly set on the remaining PP’s and that he is going to have to dig his hand in his pocket if the Administration continues without a CVA, my guess is that he will press the liquidation button. After all, if HMRC win the appeal, he can always blame it all on the taxman.

 

If PFC does go into liquidation, things start getting complex. There is a whole host of very interesting legal issues which are going to come into the spotlight, but I’ll defer commenting on those for the time being.

 

If the Administrators haven’t got a copper bottomed indemnity from Chanrai, they may be feeling slightly uncomfortable at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ohwhenthesaints

ohwhenthesaints

Posted
Posted
The Sun’s shining, and it’s time to think about some ‘What if’ scenarios if HMRC win the appeal this afternoon (subject to any subsequent appeals to the Court of Appeal/Supreme Court).

 

1. The first question is whether PFC will go into liquidation more or less immediately. HMRC winning the appeal does not legally affect the continuation of the administration and the administration has the effect of imposing a moratorium on winding up proceedings. Accordingly, HMRC cannot by itself force a liquidation immediately even if it wins today. However, Sheldon told the court yesterday that if HMRC were to win, PFC would “probably be liquidated”, which brings us on to the next question.

 

2. Will PFC will be able to start the season? This turns on whether AA can give the FL the required undertaking that PFC will be able to complete its fixtures over the course of the season. That in turn depends on whether Chanrai is willing to either (i) buy the club off the Administrators without a CVA, taking the points hit and with a big question mark over what happens to the remaining Parachute Payments or (ii) fund the Administrators to enable PFC to play out the season.

 

3. Sheldon told the court yesterday that a negative outcome for PFC would prevent Chainrai buying it. He has a duty not to mislead the court so if he said that, then that is what the Administrators will have told him Chanrai has said. Is Chanrai bluffing – who knows? Given that player sales have brought in less than anticipated, that HMRC have their sights firmly set on the remaining PP’s and that he is going to have to dig his hand in his pocket if the Administration continues without a CVA, my guess is that he will press the liquidation button. After all, if HMRC win the appeal, he can always blame it all on the taxman.

 

If PFC does go into liquidation, things start getting complex. There is a whole host of very interesting legal issues which are going to come into the spotlight, but I’ll defer commenting on those for the time being.

 

If the Administrators haven’t got a copper bottomed indemnity from Chanrai, they may be feeling slightly uncomfortable at the moment.

 

In your opinion, what percentage chance would you give HMRC of winning this appeal?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Junior Mullet

Junior Mullet

Posted
Posted

As a lawyer I find it difficult to disagree with HMRC's argument that it is unfairly prejudiced by the rule that football creditors have to be paid in full whilst non-football creditors do not. I also agree with HMRCs view that the image rights saga is nothing more than an illegal sham designed to cheat HMRC. Tax planning is fine, but tax avoidance is not. Sorry Pompey but I think you've fallen on the wrong side of the line.

 

Pompey are pleading with the courts not to find against them as that would not be in anybody's interest. HMRC admit they would lose financially from such a result. However, the win for HMRC would be so much greater than the loss from Pompey in this case. The football authorities would be forced to change their rules about prefering football creditors and the payment of image rights could be investigated closely. As a fair-minded tax payer myself I would be happy for Pompey to lose given the aggregate gains HMRC would pick up elsewhere.

 

Whatever the outcome today the matter should go to appeal. My guess is it would be difficult to overturn today's ruling.

 

As a football fan I don't like what's happening to Pompey and I feel sorry for the fans. Unlike us when we were in admin, there doesn't seem to be an obvious silver lining for them if they lose this case. On the other hand it was difficult, as a football fan, seeing Pompey get to to the FA Cup final again last year and continuning to benefit from what appears to be in my opinion financial cheating.

 

Despite my belief that HMRC have a good case I would not bet on the outcome of this case. I felt they should have been wound up at the previous big court case given the facts. Courts have shown time and time again in recent years that the outcome of these cases can go against the evidence and law on offer. Clearly football clubs are afforded special treatment by the courts but I think it's about time that stopped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
I just can't see HMRC winning. I have no legal grounds for this feeling' date=' I just can't see Pompey's life support machine ever being switched off.[/quote']

 

is that because you think that it can't happen to a football club? they seem to be working on that basis as well, that normal business practice (including paying your tax bill) doesn't apply, but some day this will have to change. The last time football went through a tumultuous change was Bosman, so maybe it is time that another change comes about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted
is that because you think that it can't happen to a football club? they seem to be working on that basis as well, that normal business practice (including paying your tax bill) doesn't apply, but some day this will have to change. The last time football went through a tumultuous change was Bosman, so maybe it is time that another change comes about.

 

Yeah I think it is, and I guess you're right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bourno

Bourno

Posted
Posted
I just can't see HMRC winning. I have no legal grounds for this feeling' date=' I just can't see Pompey's life support machine ever being switched off.[/quote']

 

These are my feelings as well. Gut feeling is they will soldier on in the Championship. I am not against this but would be happier if they started in minus 15.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
These are my feelings as well. Gut feeling is they will soldier on in the Championship. I am not against this but would be happier if they started in minus 15.

 

Mine to i am afraid.

 

I reckon if there is an ounce of doubt the judge will align with PFC with his mind on the pompey community.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills

Guest Dark Sotonic Mills

Posted
Posted
Tax planning is fine, but tax avoidance is not.

 

I think you're mixing up Evasion with Avoidance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted

One other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned in court yet....

 

Chinarai funding the Admin from the beginning...not normal practice in admin processes. (Remember Mark Fry saying he'd pull the plug when we could not exist without outside funding?!)..

 

A little gem for the appeal (if required).....

 

CHEATING BASTARDS

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ashtead Saint

Ashtead Saint

Posted
Posted
Chinarai funding the Admin from the beginning...not normal practice in admin processes. (Remember Mark Fry saying he'd pull the plug when we could not exist without outside funding?!)..

 

There's nothing wrong with that. You often get one major creditor underwriting the Administrator's costs, particularly if the business isn't producing enough income to meet outgoings. Mark Fry didn't have a creditor willing to do that, so he had to run the business out of the income it was producing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted (edited)
One other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned in court yet....

 

Chinarai funding the Admin from the beginning...not normal practice in admin processes. (Remember Mark Fry saying he'd pull the plug when we could not exist without outside funding?!)..

 

A little gem for the appeal (if required).....

 

CHEATING BASTARDS

 

I get the impression that there are quite a few gems that could be used for the appeal.

 

The case will go Pompey's way today IMO, it's a question of how much HMRC will have for the appeal, and if they lose that how able Pompey are to stick to the dubious CVA and whether the figures were massaged enough to bring it all back to court again. I still wonder if we are only part of the way through a HMRC masterplan, and whether HMRC know the full extent of the dodgy financial dealings.

 

The cynical side of me still suggests today is a case of,

 

If HMRC win, great

 

If HMRC lose, another rope giving session for PFC until the next inevitable court date

Edited by JackFrost
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint Keith

Saint Keith

Posted
Posted
One other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned in court yet....

 

Chinarai funding the Admin from the beginning...not normal practice in admin processes. (Remember Mark Fry saying he'd pull the plug when we could not exist without outside funding?!)..

 

A little gem for the appeal (if required).....

 

CHEATING BASTARDS

 

that is allowed to happen in some circumstances. we did it at Sainsburys when a call centre went bust

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

I dont want to any club go out of business, but I dont want to see them get away with it all either - so far the punishment theyhave received is NOT comparable to their crime - it just leaves you with a sense of injustice - we were punished more for far less a crime!, there's has had no impact to date apart from on the squad.

 

Some folk have said that the removeal of the football creditors rule would cause major problems, with clubs able to go into admin and continue, still owing other cllubs money... I disagree, all it will mean is that clubs will be required to pay in full upfront for the transfer and thus be less likely to be able to get loans and credit for transfer payments - which is HOW IT SHOULD BE. As to owing players themselves, well if teh finances are correct and players were not so bloody greedy, it should not be a problem, so I am not sure WHY the PL, FL or FA allow clubs to pay by installment anyway - if you cant afford a player TOUGH FFS... its a mess and i hope HMRC get this overturned so that this can be dealt with properly once and for all... I know some Pompey fans will respond saying why should tehy be the ones who get shafted for a change in the rules, but I would say if that was their only crime, fair enough, but they traded in players and paid high wages KNOWING that it was just adding to debt with no way out - in effect the cheating thing is what bugs me most, and yes they are not teh only ones guilty of this, but although morally wrong whatever, it only becomes hideously wrong and potentially criminal when you can no longer service that debt... and to then proclaim success on the back of it is what is so shameful... I have still not seen many pompey fans protesting at their own doorstep and demanding the club apologise and show some humility....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
There's nothing wrong with that. You often get one major creditor underwriting the Administrator's costs, particularly if the business isn't producing enough income to meet outgoings. Mark Fry didn't have a creditor willing to do that, so he had to run the business out of the income it was producing.

 

Thanks for clarifying..but I guess HMRC could still push the view about Chinarai's status as existing owner/repossessioner at the time? Or ask for proof of his original loan that he used to secure Nottarf Krap on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
COMEONYOUREDS

COMEONYOUREDS

Posted
Posted

From pompey mongline:

 

Email Sent to CEO of HMRC - Short and Sweet - Yesterday, 08:41 PM

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Portsmouth FC is the only thing I have left in my life! Take it away from me and my life will be gone forever! It's in your hands...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...