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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
So it is not beyond the realms of possibility that PFC win,come out of admin,have the embargo lifted and scrape through the coming season with players on loan.

However skint they claim they might be they could still escape relatively lightly in the long term by limping along?

Yes, Nick. ;)

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
When thye lose, Pompey will stay in administration of rthe rest of the season. Transfer embargo. Parachute payments & player sales will be witheld by the PL/FA to meet Football Creditors and the cost of Adminstration. What is left will go to help the running costs. When that runs out, they're f*cked. IMO.

Four years, then. As much as I like to see them suffer a slow death, that is a bit too long for me.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
I think at the time we all hated how badly things had gone and didnt think things could get any worse.

 

Its ironic how its our closest rivals are showing us how well we handled a pretty crappy situation and making us look like we had a pretty good chairman in RL considering all that went on.

 

Who would have thought RL would have been looked at in any kind of kind light 12 months on from our lowest point?

You mean, as in Hitler made Jack the Ripper seem like a pretty good person?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
In many ways it doesn't matter. The tranfers ban will still be in force until a new owner is in place and that owner has satisfied the FL.

That won't stop Cheats FC from bending the rules to get around it, by offloading rubbish to get below the 20 mark, something they have been quite open and proud about.

 

CHEATING BASTARDS.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Hmmm, I'm up to the smoke tomorrow and then staying the night with my nephew up there. I was going to go to the British Museum but other fascinating events beckon. If I recall correctly the Chancery courts are in The Strand n'est ce pas? Maybe a quick look in to see the mood of the judge in view of AA's absence and then afternoon at the BM. Any pub recommendations near either the courts or the BM so I can giggle into my Youngs Special or London Pride?

If you happen to bump into Mr. Mann, any chance of finding out which club he supports? ;)

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
That won't stop Cheats FC from bending the rules to get around it, by offloading rubbish to get below the 20 mark, something they have been quite open and proud about.

 

CHEATING BASTARDS.

 

'kin 'ell, don't people get this? It doesn't matter if they off load, they have to get everything through the FL and it so far they have dispensation to sign three players only. That, I'm willing to bet on, won't change.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

spoke with a Pompey fan tonight - he has no concept of what is happening tomorrow and was excited because they beat Fulham and he thinks their team is looking okay.

 

The majority of their fanbase have been protected from the facts by local media coverage or their reluctance to engage with the detail, so some might get a shock in the next couple of days.

I'm out and about until tomorrow afternoon but I don't expect to see much progress, if the taxman has got it right it should take a while to get the result they need and Pompey will no doubt ask for an adjournement while their boss gets his ar$e off the beach.

 

Go to it Mr Mann, write your name into Southampton folklore!

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for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted
spoke with a Pompey fan tonight - he has no concept of what is happening tomorrow and was excited because they beat Fulham and he thinks their team is looking okay.

 

The majority of their fanbase have been protected from the facts by local media coverage or their reluctance to engage with the detail, so some might get a shock in the next couple of days.

I'm out and about until tomorrow afternoon but I don't expect to see much progress, if the taxman has got it right it should take a while to get the result they need and Pompey will no doubt ask for an adjournement while their boss gets his ar$e off the beach.

 

Go to it Mr Mann, write your name into Southampton folklore!

 

If Pompey were a Mr Man:

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDvqKismiKmRerHI-djIvwl4dIXyRtPTjXSiKoU73lU1q0NKU&t=1&usg=__TIElHORnZJiuvzkL48Hqz9Aa9ZE=

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for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted
I'll shout out "knock, knock" in court. Should flush out the Saint's fans.

 

Still no news of decent local pubs...

 

Hi Sue, if you're going to be on the strand may I recommend The Lyceum, which is unsurprisingly by the Lyceum theatre. It's a Sam Smith's pub and therefore has excellent ales, lagers and spirits at really good prices. A Pint of their delicious Stout costs about £2.40!

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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
BBC's Matt Slater got in trouble for tweeting last time but will be in court tomorrow and will try do give updates. He thinks PFC will be OK.

 

http://twitter.com/bbc_matt

 

God knows why I am up at this time but I was going to post something similar earlier and forgot. I asked if he was covering the pompy saga in court and he said yes but due to nearly getting arrested for tweeting last time he can't promise tweets this time. News may be slow tomorrow.

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted (edited)
God knows why I am up at this time but I was going to post something similar earlier and forgot. I asked if he was covering the pompy saga in court and he said yes but due to nearly getting arrested for tweeting last time he can't promise tweets this time. News may be slow tomorrow.

 

Any one tweeting might be wise to use a fresh new account just for this event. Also write notes in a pad, it gives cover should you be under scrutiny. I have used a dictation device too and placed it on a spare seat but it picks up a lot of background noise. (And is specifically mentioned as a banned device) You will have to go through a scanner entering the court.

 

the law, not sure if this 1981 act has been updated. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1981/cukpga_19810049_en_1#pb2-l1g9

 

9 Use of tape recorders.(1)Subject to subsection (4) below, it is a contempt of court—.

(a)to use in court, or bring into court for use, any tape recorder or other instrument for recording sound, except with the leave of the court;.

(b)to publish a recording of legal proceedings made by means of any such instrument, or any recording derived directly or indirectly from it, by playing it in the hearing of the public or any section of the public, or to dispose of it or any recording so derived, with a view to such publication;.

©to use any such recording in contravention of any conditions of leave granted under paragraph (a)..

(2)Leave under paragraph (a) of subsection (1) may be granted or refused at the discretion of the court, and if granted may be granted subject to such conditions as the court thinks proper with respect to the use of any recording made pursuant to the leave; and where leave has been granted the court may at the like discretion withdraw or amend it either generally or in relation to any particular part of the proceedings..

(3)Without prejudice to any other power to deal with an act of contempt under paragraph (a) of subsection (1), the court may order the instrument, or any recording made with it, or both, to be forfeited; and any object so forfeited shall (unless the court otherwise determines on application by a person appearing to be the owner) be sold or otherwise disposed of in such manner as the court may direct..

(4)This section does not apply to the making or use of sound recordings for purposes of official transcripts of proceedings

 

 

Strictly speaking , no iPhone is allowed in any court as it is capable of recording sound. However this copy of the regulations does not cover tweeting.

 

4 Contemporary reports of proceedings(1)Subject to this section a person is not guilty of contempt of court under the strict liability rule in respect of a fair and accurate report of legal proceedings held in public, published contemporaneously and in good faith.
Edited by tony13579
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Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

Posted
Posted
What are the options if hmrc win their appeal tomorrow? Which one is more likely.

 

Liquidation?

Re-negotiate the CVA, which they probably haven't got the money to do?

Exit admin without a CVA and get assraped by the FL?

 

For the second assuming the appeal shows HMRC have enough to block the CVA then given their normal stance hard to see how any CVA with less than 100% would be approved.

For the latter they still need to clear their debts or reach an out-of-cva agreement with their creditors to survive.

 

Agreed the second is unlikely to get past HMRC.

 

To come out of Admin without the CVA they could sell the club to a new company and then liquidate the current company, with creditors (including the football creditors) getting a share of the sale proceeds in line with insolvency legislation. i.e. not preferential status for the football creditors.

 

Of course this has a couple of big draw backs.

 

1) You would have to throw yourself at the mercy of the FL. I'd guess that the best case scenario (for the few) would be that they allow the transfer of the golden share but impose a points deduction and divert parachute payments until Football creditors are repaid. Worst case is expulsion from the league. Quite a risk.

 

2) given the above you have to persuade some sucker to actually buy the club. With the current player liabilities still on the books and no parachute money to come in it doesn't look an attractive proposition... they do have the best fans in the world ™ though I guess.

 

You'd also have to demonstrate to the creditors that you had obtained the best value you could when selling the club to the new co so selling the club to chainrai for £1 is unlikely to work.

 

All IMO.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
In many ways it doesn't matter. The tranfers ban will still be in force until a new owner is in place and that owner has satisfied the FL.
I think you will find all that is in place as Merovingian said that Chanrai was going through FPPT. Therefore they will hit the ground running if they get away with it.

I don't feel confident that things will turn out the way it should do.

No surprise there though that I feel negative

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

I think there are good grounds to win on the maniplulation CVA vote

I think there are good grounds to win on the fact that football creditors should not have been able to vote as they were secured creditors

I do not believe the football creditors rule will be decided today

 

We only need to win on one point to prevent the CVA.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted (edited)

As I see it (though probably wrong as ever) pompey could lose on just about every point but I think the image rights must be a banker for HMRC as surely all they need to do is show that the amount paid in image rights is considerably more than the profit made on the commercial income that those rights relate to to show that they are being used as a tax avoidance mechanism. If that is the case then AA was wrong to exclude the image rights related tax bill which makes the CVA vote null and void.

Edited by pedg
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Saint in Paradise

Saint in Paradise

Posted
Posted
I think you need to read a few court reports on Mr Mann's fair decisive judgements

 

Fair comment if it was a normal business in front of him BUT sometimes football clubs appear to be given much more leeway

than normal firms. That is again my major concern, I would love to be wrong like I am most of the time, well my wife says I am.:lol:

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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
As I see it (though probably wrong as ever) pompey could lose on just about every point but I think the image rights must be a banker for HMRC as surely all they need to do is show that the amount paid in image rights is considerably more than the profit made on the commercial income that those rights relate to to show that they are being used as a tax avoidance mechanism. If that is the case then AA was wrong to exclude the image rights related tax bill which makes the CVA vote null and void.

 

I think if they can prove the image rights are a tax avoidance then that will spark a further case to deal with that issue. HMRC's bill included the image rights bit and aa accepted and then put it in the CVA. HMRC are now using aa's last min changes to remove what was once included as the means to appeal. They may go in deeper as to what the image rights are for and if they are just but I didn't think this court case is where they can deal with that fully.

 

If things go bad for pompy today then it could open up a shed load of court cases against former owners and directors for more tax evasion and so on.

 

I would have thought HMRC will be going after the general dodgy way the CVA has been handled and pushed through to get the appeal won and pompy liquidated. Then they can get there hands on the books and figure out who they need to go after for all the tax evasion that went on before.

 

Today could just be the start of a really bad spell for the blue few.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

I'm not that peturbed that Matt Slater reckons the Skates might just get away with it. What judicial and legal qualifications does he have? Is he a specialist in reporting legal matters? He might have discussed this with people who are clued up in these matters, but it seems to me from reading opinions on here from some seemingly pretty savvy people that the case against them is strong.

 

I await the result later today with keen anticipation that the cheating bastards will be taken to account at last.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

patience my pretty ones, it's not going to be sorted in a hurry!

 

Another slant is that it's a test case for the football authorities who will be determined to protect football creditors, if Pompey think they can ignore that internal ruling and shaft UK clubs by coming out of admin without serious funding they are very wrong.

Is AA looking to challenge that 100% rule himself to save a few quid and wave goodbye to league status?

Letting Pompey get away with scrubbing all debt would allow dozens of clubs to save millions and bring the whole league structure into chaos.

The 100% to football creditors is set in stone, so any clever plan B around the potential of a refused cva will still have to be backed by millions.

 

They've been running from justice for several years but today they've finally been cornered, the more dramatic threadsters could even see it as their 'lying by the riverbank' moment.

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
coyhmrc

 

cheats

 

This.....!

 

Outcome - Best = liquidation - next best points deduction...at least minus 15 - worst they live to struggle on with all income diverted to creditors & reliant on the phew to finance them..good job they're so bestest. What a wonderful choice of prospects to be looking forward to!:smug:

 

Side note - what an insult to Linvoy Primus particularly as it could still be the last game ever played there.

 

 

 

 

 

cheats

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
patience my pretty ones, it's not going to be sorted in a hurry!

 

Another slant is that it's a test case for the football authorities who will be determined to protect football creditors, if Pompey think they can ignore that internal ruling and shaft UK clubs by coming out of admin without serious funding they are very wrong.

Is AA looking to challenge that 100% rule himself to save a few quid and wave goodbye to league status?

Letting Pompey get away with scrubbing all debt would allow dozens of clubs to save millions and bring the whole league structure into chaos.

The 100% to football creditors is set in stone, so any clever plan B around the potential of a refused cva will still have to be backed by millions.

 

They've been running from justice for several years but today they've finally been cornered, the more dramatic threadsters could even see it as their 'lying by the riverbank' moment.

Do you think that there is a lot of self interest and the PL clubs may well help fund Pompeys case. The reason for this is that if the HMRC win on the image rights case, that will cost them all a lot of dosh?

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think you will find all that is in place as Merovingian said that Chanrai was going through FPPT. Therefore they will hit the ground running if they get away with it.

I don't feel confident that things will turn out the way it should do.

No surprise there though that I feel negative

 

Getting a buyer doesn't automatically lift the embargo.

Edited by View From The Top
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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
Is there anything at all stopping me going and viewing this myself? Might be quite funny, a Saints fan twittering on the Skate's demise, live from court...

 

Not at all Crabby, I went to their first WUP hearing. I would go along today (the RCJ is 3 minutes from my office) but the case could take a looooooong time and I really have to do soem work, at least.

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GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
IMO we will exit administration with chainrai in charge - with no CVA agreed and a points deduction.

 

This.

 

Which, TBF is a fair result. More interesting would be what do the FL do about the embargo. Pompey would need to prove they're a viable concern with no money issues. Chainrai to underwrite x million?

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
Hi Sue' date=' if you're going to be on the strand may I recommend The Lyceum, which is unsurprisingly by the Lyceum theatre. It's a Sam Smith's pub and therefore has excellent ales, lagers and spirits at really good prices. A Pint of their delicious Stout costs about £2.40![/quote']

 

Sue, don't go anywhere near that dump, it only serves **** sam Smith's beer. Try the George right opposite the RCJ (which are onthe Strand right next to Aldwych but Fleet Street side rather than Traf Sq) as they'll serve you a decent Pride.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
IMO we will exit administration with chainrai in charge - with no CVA agreed and a points deduction.

 

I think that would suit most Saints fans...wouldn't want you out of business as we still want to get back above you and repay the latest results.

I remember how we felt last season and don't want anyone to go through that ..well maybe that twa8t with the bell!

A -17 would do nicely.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I think that would suit most Saints fans...wouldn't want you out of business as we still want to get back above you and repay the latest results.

I remember how we felt last season and don't want anyone to go through that ..well maybe that twa8t with the bell!

A -17 would do nicely.

 

Not enough for me. We will have their brats telling our kids for generations to come that they have won the FA cup twice and were unlucky not to beat Chelsea and were robbed of playing in europe.

Let them be expelled from the league and have to crawl their way back up.That would be fair to offset their glory years.

Although im tinged with sympathy for merovingian ,Mackrill etc though

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
IMO we will exit administration with chainrai in charge - with no CVA agreed and a points deduction.

Surely that is the worst possible outcome?

 

If you exit administration without a CVA agreed, HMRC will simply re-issue a winding-up petition and you'll be back to square one.

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eurosaint

eurosaint

Posted
Posted
I think there are good grounds to win on the maniplulation CVA vote

I think there are good grounds to win on the fact that football creditors should not have been able to vote as they were secured creditors

I do not believe the football creditors rule will be decided today

 

We only need to win on one point to prevent the CVA.

 

:) Like it :)

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