Jump to content

Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
in Golden Posts

 Share

Recommended Posts

Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
I guess that if the FCR was removed that the total sums for transfers would probably go down as the club selling would be more inclined to insist on the full sum up front. Some might say that this is a necessary adjustment anyway.

 

If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

 

Also, of course, it would help to bring down the ludicrous wages. Players and their agents would be much less cavalier about signing on for mega-bucks with potentially dodgy clubs (eg the CHEATS) if their money wasn't guaranteed. Think back to last season and some of the comments from other clubs about Poopey paying over the odds and those players would need to ask - do I take £10/week from steady, well run Wolves or £20k/week from those shysters who might end up giving me 4p in the pund for five years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

An ongoing problem here is that this has been one of those rare stories where there's little media understanding of what is occuring yet they don't bother to seek specialist advice.

As a result we've been treated to Storrie's, Grant's, AA's, and various chancers' views of what will happen next, often printed as fact to fill the vacuum created by lack of balanced info.

 

So when AA tells the paper that he's confident of something they print it without question and the dimmer fans just lap it up - hence the ridiculous inaccurate transfer and contract stories we keep seeing.

There are still people in Pompey who think AA is going to re-write the way that the UK calculates VAT, have them out of admin two months ago and get them into Europe.

 

And as the other party is HMRC who are reluctant to spin, most of football is just getting plucky little Pompey's and their bestest fans' version of life.

 

Methinks there may be an alternative version of events still to be aired - and that the taxman must have bitten right through his lip trying to maintain a dignified silence - a silence only broken by the noise of tax officials erecting gallows in the car park.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted (edited)
If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

 

 

I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

Edited by saintjay77
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

FC Barcelona’s money troubles seem to have cascaded even further following a fresh audit into the clubs finances revealing the Catalonians total debt standing at €442m (£369.5m) after a significant loss of €77m (£64.36m) last season.

The new audit which has been undertaken by Deloitte for new club president Sandro Rosell has revealed a significant increase in debt following the decision to take out a £125million loan in order to fund necessities such as player’s wages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sidthesquid

sidthesquid

Posted
Posted
This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

And what exactly is the problem with that?

Wouldn't it be awful to lose all that shady money coming in from abroad to be churned and squandered, the huge and growing disparity betweem the Prem (TM bestest league in the world) and the rest of football, those egotistical foreign owners, over-rated foreign managers and diving, cheating mercenary foreign players (mostly) only here for a quick and easy buck, the hideous creature that is Sky dominating our game and all those JCL fans who have the shirt but only watch football on the TV.

I'm not sure I would ever get over my disappointment....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

 

IMO the PL is not the best league in the world, it is a fallacy. it is the best at promoting itself, all down to Sky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

Yeah I agree there needs to be some kind of regulation on football in general. But is that really going to happen any time soon?

 

The image rights tax dodge needs to be closed down as it is a blatant P take but if company's, football or otherwise, want to bring the best talent to the uk, the standard tax laws mean most sportsmen/women will more likely choose country's that let them have more of the money they earn.

This could either mean clubs don't bother competing for the best players as they run within realistic budgets or they pay even more exagerated wage demands to compete with what other country's can offer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Yeah I agree there needs to be some kind of regulation on football in general. But is that really going to happen any time soon?

 

The image rights tax dodge needs to be closed down as it is a blatant P take but if company's, football or otherwise, want to bring the best talent to the uk, the standard tax laws mean most sportsmen/women will more likely choose country's that let them have more of the money they earn.

This could either mean clubs don't bother competing for the best players as they run within realistic budgets or they pay even more exagerated wage demands to compete with what other country's can offer.

 

Is there not a uefa law or similar coming into force about club finances?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
IMO the PL is not the best league in the world, it is a fallacy. it is the best at promoting itself, all down to Sky.

 

I'm not saying it is the best league. I think the UK leagues are among the best in the world but couldn't single out the prem for anything special. It's up there for sure but there are a lot of problems that if sorted out would make it plumit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
No idea, it's needed though and would probably change the balance of some of the so called top clubs sitting on a mountain of debt.

 

This is the one I was thinking of.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/27/uefa-michel-platini-club-financial-regulations

 

Whether the expensive lawyers and accountants of the top clubs will be able to work round them is another matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

 

Yes, you could well be right about the FA and FL being worried about many of the overseas stars not coming here if the tax regime was altered so that they didn't have enticements to high earnings because of the FCR and image rights. But on the other hand, we did appallingly badly in the World Cup because the English youngsters cannot find places in the top Premiership teams because of all the foreign stars, whereas Spain and Germany fared a lot better with their home grown players and less imported ones. However, much of the revenue coming into the British game is from TV rights where our matches are screened around the World and where the big teams have already established a brand awareness and following that will be hard to displace.

 

Longer term, our dominance will decline anyway through other factors, like the rise in popularity of football in the USA and also possibly in India, China and other parts of the Far East where the Premiership is watched avidly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
Yes, you could well be right about the FA and FL being worried about many of the overseas stars not coming here if the tax regime was altered so that they didn't have enticements to high earnings because of the FCR and image rights. But on the other hand, we did appallingly badly in the World Cup because the English youngsters cannot find places in the top Premiership teams because of all the foreign stars, whereas Spain and Germany fared a lot better with their home grown players and less imported ones. However, much of the revenue coming into the British game is from TV rights where our matches are screened around the World and where the big teams have already established a brand awareness and following that will be hard to displace.

 

Longer term, our dominance will decline anyway through other factors, like the rise in popularity of football in the USA and also possibly in India, China and other parts of the Far East where the Premiership is watched avidly.

 

It could well be used to turn englands fortunes around in the long term. If it makes financial sense to invest in youth and build from the bottom up. Something we are already investing in so it could bode well for us if others have to follow suit.

 

What happens when we produce some world class players that will get better paid abroad though? Do they stick by the UK club that built them up to where ever they are while accepting a lower take home pay or do they look to get good and then go where the money is abroad?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
It could well be used to turn englands fortunes around in the long term. If it makes financial sense to invest in youth and build from the bottom up. Something we are already investing in so it could bode well for us if others have to follow suit.

 

What happens when we produce some world class players that will get better paid abroad though? Do they stick by the UK club that built them up to where ever they are while accepting a lower take home pay or do they look to get good and then go where the money is abroad?

 

The rate in Spain now for any new contracts is 43%, Germany is 45%, Italy is 43% while France is 40%. So would the difference (10% or less) be worth a move away from home? I can understand not so many foreign stars coming over but the english players don't do playing abroad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
The rate in Spain now for any new contracts is 43%, Germany is 45%, Italy is 43% while France is 40%. So would the difference (10% or less) be worth a move away from home? I can understand not so many foreign stars coming over but the english players don't do playing abroad.

 

My ideas are just hypothetical and many things could be done differently to change things completely. Just cause English players don't play abroad now it doesn't mean we won't produce players that could do in the future no matter what the pay scales are anywhere.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens short term and long term if HMRC win. IMO it would be a good thing for them to win and it should set some decent ground rules for any other club.

 

The issue on tax for sports people has been brought up by usain bolt but the results of that could make a difference to all sports. If something is done it may be possible to pay sports stars less but there take home is still more than they would get elsewhere.

 

That could then open the door further for the top stars coming here.

 

Like unsaid, it's all hypothetical but the poopy case could change a lot of things in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

 

Borrowing to pay wages! Complete madness. It's obviously a general problem in football and perhaps the impact on the Premiership won't be as bad as some people made out if the major competition for the top players are also hit by a reversion to normal economic rules. The general level of crowds in the UK should sustain a reasonably competitive league (I'm thinking more Saints than Pimpley here, of course). Crowds in Germany make them competitive but French and Italian crowds for example are pretty pants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
landford.saint

landford.saint

Posted
Posted

Just been browsing the blue fews reply to their local rags article about KPB having to play in championship if not sold, and I came across this comment re:- David James. "if he wants 20k give him 20k, 10k as player and 10k as coach".

I kid you not.. They just don't understand the word 'bust'. They never fail to amuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
Just been browsing the blue fews reply to their local rags article about KPB having to play in championship if not sold, and I came across this comment re:- David James. "if he wants 20k give him 20k, 10k as player and 10k as coach".

I kid you not.. They just don't understand the word 'bust'. They never fail to amuse.

 

They're really not right bright.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FMPR

FMPR

Posted
Posted

 

Borrowing to pay wages! Complete madness. It's obviously a general problem in football and perhaps the impact on the Premiership won't be as bad as some people made out if the major competition for the top players are also hit by a reversion to normal economic rules. The general level of crowds in the UK should sustain a reasonably competitive league (I'm thinking more Saints than Pimpley here, of course). Crowds in Germany make them competitive but French and Italian crowds for example are pretty pants.

 

Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

Link to comment
Share on other sites
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

 

If it turns out that they are insolvent and they carry on regardless with complete disregard and no compunction whatsoever, then "yes". If they have serviceable debt, then "no".

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..
You were so close!

Thee is an unfair advantage across Europe.

Do I play for almost bankrupt euro club and risk getting 4cents in the euro Or do I play for almost bankrupt Portsmouf and 100p in the £.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

 

Thing is, they could sell half there squad and be debt free.

 

Any club running on massive debt IMO is playing a dangerous game. Pompy's game has bought relative success over a few seasons but failed to generate enough support to service their expendature.

 

Global brands of Manu U, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool although running on massive debt or massive investment are big enough clubs so that if all goes to the wall they have the brands that could sell there way out.

 

Pompy have...........

Link to comment
Share on other sites
suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
Thing is, they could sell half there squad and be debt free.

 

Any club running on massive debt IMO is playing a dangerous game. Pompy's game has bought relative success over a few seasons but failed to generate enough support to service their expendature.

 

Global brands of Manu U, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool although running on massive debt or massive investment are big enough clubs so that if all goes to the wall they have the brands that could sell there way out.

 

Pompy have...........

 

Fratton Park? Minus a few ransom strips, mind.Not forgetting the massive support..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
With the Football Creditors Rule, does anyone know what happens in Europe when a club goes into administration? For example, what happened with Real Mallorca?

There's no equivalent rule in other countries, as far as I'm aware.

 

Real Mallorca qualified for the Europa League by virtue of finishing 5th in La Liga, but as they went into administration, they were refused entry to the competition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
solentstars

solentstars

Posted
Posted

(just read this on one of the pompey forums from bone 1972)

Apparently Sasha Gaydamak has seized possession of the club car park, and is turning it into an everyday usage car park, charging £5 per day non matchdays and £10 per day on matchdays.

 

He has even moved his own portacabins in and his own facilities team, I kid you not.

 

I know it's his land, but this smacks of pettiness to me.

laughing my head of if its true:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
There's no equivalent rule in other countries, as far as I'm aware.

 

Real Mallorca qualified for the Europa League by virtue of finishing 5th in La Liga, but as they went into administration, they were refused entry to the competition.

 

So the PL reasoning that it would adversely affect other clubs is only relevant if it happens in England? ;) Still say that clubs should act like other businesses and only sell to other companies if they are sure that they are going to get paid. Forget all the deferred payment plans and stump up 100% straight away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
So the PL reasoning that it would adversely affect other clubs is only relevant if it happens in England? ;) Still say that clubs should act like other businesses and only sell to other companies if they are sure that they are going to get paid. Forget all the deferred payment plans and stump up 100% straight away.

Yep, the football creditors rule is only applicable to deals involving clubs in this country. Hence why the likes of Udinese are only going to receive 20p in the pound if the CVA is ultimately approved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...