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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella
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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

Case by case basis.....i.e.

 

''can we sign a striker?''......''No''.

''can we sign a midfielder?''......''No''.

''can we sign a fullback?''......''No''.

''erm, can we sign a keeper then?''......''go on, but just the one''.

mack rill

mack rill

Posted
Posted
Case by case basis.....i.e.

 

''can we sign a striker?''...... Yes!

''can we sign a midfielder?''.... Yes!

''can we sign a fullback?''...... Yes!

''erm, can we sign a keeper then?''......''go on, but just the one''.

What about just one more player,,,,,,,,,safeguard against injury? Oh go on then just don't tell em pony boys down the road.

EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
What about just one more player,,,,,,,,,safeguard against injury? Oh go on then just don't tell em pony boys down the road.

 

Did we ever have a transfer embargo which we openly schemed and planned to flout then?

 

Or maybe don't tell your little wannabe mates, down at Bompey, who did very well last season and only asked for, was it one, dispensation?

saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted

 

 

Funny how one bit says that the 3 are probably Ashdown, Jordan and Sonko and a few lines later they say,

 

"Now the hunt is on for recruits ahead of the season-opener on August 7 at Coventry."

 

I think the FL are right to let them replace expensive players for cheaper ones so if KPB goes then they should be able to bring in someone cheaper but the FL should keep an eye on them getting rid of cheap to bring in expensive as it will no doubt be just another attempt to flip the bird to the FL and all other clubs in the pooh.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
what is it that makes Pompey be able to get around the rules others do not. Salisbury, Bournemouth Luton have been left to the dogs, wheras Pompey seem to get special dispensation. No doubt it will be Buffon, Ronaldo, and Messi to fill the spots.

 

Oh, do give this tired, unsubstantiated, paranoid, self-incriminating, rhetoric a rest.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

The quote from the FL talks about "reducing the wage bill" and signing "replacement" players on a "case-by-case" basis.

 

In other words, if you manage to shift Ben Haim, you can sign a replacement on smaller wages. If you can sell Utaka, you can sign a replacement on smaller wages.

 

There is nothing in there to suggest Skates are presently allowed to sign anyone.

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I sometimes wonder if you just act dumb.

 

There is no special dispensation unless it's for a keeper.

 

Thanks for the apology

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
The quote from the FL talks about "reducing the wage bill" and signing "replacement" players on a "case-by-case" basis.

 

In other words, if you manage to shift Ben Haim, you can sign a replacement on smaller wages. If you can sell Utaka, you can sign a replacement on smaller wages.

 

There is nothing in there to suggest Skates are presently allowed to sign anyone.

well if these players wages are to be reduced by signing others, it opens the doors to practically any decent footballer outside the top 4 clubs, as their wages are above most
for_heaven's_Saint

for_heaven's_Saint

Posted
Posted
well if these players wages are to be reduced by signing others, it opens the doors to practically any decent footballer outside the top 4 clubs, as their wages are above most

 

Yes but they can't pay big transfer fees, and any decent player will go elsewhere.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
well if these players wages are to be reduced by signing others, it opens the doors to practically any decent footballer outside the top 4 clubs, as their wages are above most

 

I'm pretty sure that will be one of the factors the FL look at on a case-by-case basis.

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

Signing new players (or not, as the case may be) is an interesting sideshow. But keep your eye on the main event - the cash.

 

They are currently £3m short to pay this month's wages. Similar position to us 13 months ago, before Crouch stumped up. If they get that, either by selling somebody, or from Chainrai, then they get to limp into next month.

 

But how much longer is Chainrai going to keep chucking good money after bad? He bought a punt at a quick return to the prem, and what that brings, for a speculation of a few million to fund the administration up to the CVA. But that has now backfired. Realistically they're facing a relegation struggle, and could well end up in L1.

 

To save chainrai from having to put his hand in his pocket again, they needed to bring in £6.75m in July, £7m in August & £4.25m in January from player sales. £18.1m in the year. The remaining squad members I think they're looking to get rid of (although they'll no doubt let some go free to save the wages) are Belhadj, Nugent, Rocha, Ben Haim, Boateng, Mokoena & Utaka. After a month of the window being open, they (and Chainrai) have realised that Storrie's valuations are "a bit optimistic". They would do very, very well to get £10m for all of that lot. And as they're finding out, they can't give some of them away because of the excessive wages. So they're going to be at least £8m short.

 

What that means is, with a little bit of adjustment to Andy's own fragile cash flow forecasts by me, IMO if they stay in Administration Chainrai will have to put another £8m in to get them to the end of the season, and if they get a CVA, that figure will be £11m. (All on top of the £6m he has aready put in to fund the administration since March).

 

I don't see any way they can exit administration without a CVA. The only reason they went into administration in February was to protect themselves from final judgement in the HMRC winding up petition. If they exit without a binding agreement with HMRC, they'll be straight back into Court on the WUP.

 

We'll have to see if Andy's got anything else up his sleeve, but I don't think he has. I've got a feeling Chainrai might tell Andy to take the fuse out of the plug on the life support machine, and put it into the plug on the toaster.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
The remaining squad members I think they're looking to get rid of (although they'll no doubt let some go free to save the wages) are Belhadj, Nugent, Rocha, Ben Haim, Boateng, Mokoena & Utaka.

 

Behadj has already been sold.

 

Rocha is out of contract and technically not a Pompey player.

 

Ben Haim has a relegation release clause.

Edited by Matthew Le God
hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted (edited)
Behadj has already been sold.

 

Rocha is out of contract and technically not a Pompey player.

Thanks for that. I had assumed Rocha and Ben Haim would go on free's anyway, although thought Rocha was under contract until Feb '12. AFAIK Belhadj hasn't gone, although the club wish he would.

Edited by hutch
Trying to keep up
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Yes but they can't pay big transfer fees' date=' and any decent player will go elsewhere.[/quote']

 

that's true, but there are some decent free agents around who could do a very decent job in the CCC.

I don't think Ohara would go back, but Iam surprised no-one has tried to buy him

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

It's been a long 24 hours since Tuesday, Dave. Any news on the date yet?

 

I think the most important bit of news today is that HMRC have NOT appealed the Palace CVA vote, even though they only get 2p in the £. It seems that they only appeal if they think there's been a serious irregularity in the voting process.

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Signing new players (or not, as the case may be) is an interesting sideshow. But keep your eye on the main event - the cash.

 

They are currently £3m short to pay this month's wages. Similar position to us 13 months ago, before Crouch stumped up. If they get that, either by selling somebody, or from Chainrai, then they get to limp into next month.

 

But how much longer is Chainrai going to keep chucking good money after bad? He bought a punt at a quick return to the prem, and what that brings, for a speculation of a few million to fund the administration up to the CVA. But that has now backfired. Realistically they're facing a relegation struggle, and could well end up in L1.

 

To save chainrai from having to put his hand in his pocket again, they needed to bring in £6.75m in July, £7m in August & £4.25m in January from player sales. £18.1m in the year. The remaining squad members I think they're looking to get rid of (although they'll no doubt let some go free to save the wages) are Belhadj, Nugent, Rocha, Ben Haim, Boateng, Mokoena & Utaka. After a month of the window being open, they (and Chainrai) have realised that Storrie's valuations are "a bit optimistic". They would do very, very well to get £10m for all of that lot. And as they're finding out, they can't give some of them away because of the excessive wages. So they're going to be at least £8m short.

 

What that means is, with a little bit of adjustment to Andy's own fragile cash flow forecasts by me, IMO if they stay in Administration Chainrai will have to put another £8m in to get them to the end of the season, and if they get a CVA, that figure will be £11m. (All on top of the £6m he has aready put in to fund the administration since March).

 

I don't see any way they can exit administration without a CVA. The only reason they went into administration in February was to protect themselves from final judgement in the HMRC winding up petition. If they exit without a binding agreement with HMRC, they'll be straight back into Court on the WUP.

 

We'll have to see if Andy's got anything else up his sleeve, but I don't think he has. I've got a feeling Chainrai might tell Andy to take the fuse out of the plug on the life support machine, and put it into the plug on the toaster.

 

Hutch, if the assessment you are making is correct, then for the first time in a very long time I will agree they are toast, and be happy to admit to be wrong

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Signing new players (or not, as the case may be) is an interesting sideshow. But keep your eye on the main event - the cash.

 

They are currently £3m short to pay this month's wages. Similar position to us 13 months ago, before Crouch stumped up. If they get that, either by selling somebody, or from Chainrai, then they get to limp into next month.

 

But how much longer is Chainrai going to keep chucking good money after bad? He bought a punt at a quick return to the prem, and what that brings, for a speculation of a few million to fund the administration up to the CVA. But that has now backfired. Realistically they're facing a relegation struggle, and could well end up in L1.

 

To save chainrai from having to put his hand in his pocket again, they needed to bring in £6.75m in July, £7m in August & £4.25m in January from player sales. £18.1m in the year. The remaining squad members I think they're looking to get rid of (although they'll no doubt let some go free to save the wages) are Belhadj, Nugent, Rocha, Ben Haim, Boateng, Mokoena & Utaka. After a month of the window being open, they (and Chainrai) have realised that Storrie's valuations are "a bit optimistic". They would do very, very well to get £10m for all of that lot. And as they're finding out, they can't give some of them away because of the excessive wages. So they're going to be at least £8m short.

 

What that means is, with a little bit of adjustment to Andy's own fragile cash flow forecasts by me, IMO if they stay in Administration Chainrai will have to put another £8m in to get them to the end of the season, and if they get a CVA, that figure will be £11m. (All on top of the £6m he has aready put in to fund the administration since March).

 

I don't see any way they can exit administration without a CVA. The only reason they went into administration in February was to protect themselves from final judgement in the HMRC winding up petition. If they exit without a binding agreement with HMRC, they'll be straight back into Court on the WUP.

 

We'll have to see if Andy's got anything else up his sleeve, but I don't think he has. I've got a feeling Chainrai might tell Andy to take the fuse out of the plug on the life support machine, and put it into the plug on the toaster.

 

It would be interesting to know just how much Chanarai is for now.

 

The early date of the appeal was due 72 hrs ago, but still nothing. The quote came from Lampitt, i hope he hasn't caught androids bull****itous

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
It would be interesting to know just how much Chanarai is for now.

 

The early date of the appeal was due 72 hrs ago, but still nothing. The quote came from Lampitt, i hope he hasn't caught androids bull****itous

From the figures I've seen (all taken from Andy's own documents available on the UHY website) it's currently £14.1m "probably" secured against club assets (but for which he would be lucky, IMO, to get £5m back in liquidation), plus another £6m so far put into the administration. So it's around £20m so far, and he's being asked for more.

St Marco

St Marco

Posted
Posted

After reading that news piece about Pompey allowed to sign players you have got to laugh at it. The FL guy did not say they can sign players at all. He just said they were working to reduce the wage costs and would look at potentially bringing in players to get to 20 in the squad on a case by case basis. How have The News from that got to the conclusion that they have basically been told to not worry about the embargo as you can still sign people?! If anything it is a negative comment as the guy says they are having to help to get wages down. If they add more people that means the wages go up! If they release some youth guy and bring in a PL player then that is obviously a wage increase unless his wages are paid by his parrent club. Which makes me think somehow it doesn't seem right.

 

Also still no date on the court case.....can we believe anything that comes out of Pompey? I don't think so.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted

I was trying to find a quote from aa who suggested it wasn't chanarai funding the adminsitration and reading between the lines it could have been the PL giving them some parachute money up front.....couldnt find it, but i did find this nuggett

 

After HMRC flagged up concerns over Andronikou's independence, noting in particular that Portpin, a company owned by Chainrai, and UHY Hacker Young, the insolvency practitioner of whom Andronikou is a partner, shared a solicitor in Balsara & Co, the insolvency practice was quick to insist that there were no prior links. Andronikou insisted there was "no stitch-up", arguing that the fact that it was Chainrai who had appointed him was "irrelevant". "There is no stitch up. My remit here is to get the best deal for the creditors. I'm not here to work for Mr Chainrai, I need to get the best deal for all creditors," he said.

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hutch, if the assessment you are making is correct, then for the first time in a very long time I will agree they are toast, and be happy to admit to be wrong

It's all in Andy's own cash flow forecast, scroll to page 64 of the CVA proposal.

 

But before accepting his forecast, ask yourself the following questions:

 

  • Why is the parachute payment in March 2011 not given to the football creditors?
  • Why is the Sky TV payment in May 2011 not given to the football creditors?
  • Why does Andy expect to receive £3.8m from season ticket sales at the end of the season?
  • Where is all that money from player sales going to come from?

and then form your own opinion.

Edited by hutch
spelling
EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
From the figures I've seen (all taken from Andy's own documents available on the UHY website) it's currently £14.1m "probably" secured against club assets (but for which he would be lucky, IMO, to get £5m back in liquidation), plus another £6m so far put into the administration. So it's around £20m so far, and he's being asked for more.

 

So, talking ball park figures here, BC has spent about, I do say 'about', the same as ML has spent here.

 

What exactly, has BC got for his money, so far. Apart from the financial black hole?

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted

 

What exactly, has BC got for his money, so far. Apart from the financial black hole?

he's got the total love of a bloke with a bell
ericofarabia

ericofarabia

Posted
Posted
We'll have to see if Andy's got anything else up his sleeve, but I don't think he has. I've got a feeling Chainrai might tell Andy to take the fuse out of the plug on the life support machine, and put it into the plug on the toaster.

 

I am liking that very much. Brought a big smile to my face. :D

Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
So, talking ball park figures here, BC has spent about, I do say 'about', the same as ML has spent here.

 

What exactly, has BC got for his money, so far. Apart from the financial black hole?

 

And every day the players aren't sold is cash that is moving into that blackhole, never to return to the skate universe.

Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
Behadj has already been sold.

 

Rocha is out of contract and technically not a Pompey player.

 

Ben Haim has a relegation release clause.

 

But he's not exercising that clause because:

 

a) He has failed a medical at WHU

b) He's on a massive, massive contract and nobody else will pay him that kind of money. Bit of a Winston Bogarde type scenario...which would be amusing!

Under Weststand

Under Weststand

Posted
Posted
It's been a long 24 hours since Tuesday, Dave. Any news on the date yet?

 

I think the most important bit of news today is that HMRC have NOT appealed the Palace CVA vote, even though they only get 2p in the £. It seems that they only appeal if they think there's been a serious irregularity in the voting process.

:lol::lol: Have to say some excellent work this week Hutch, is Dave Lampit the new Storrie Teller how many times did Mr Teller come out with s**te like that. I can really see the High court falling over themselves to help Poopey out with a quick decision. :rolleyes:

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted

I'm surprised there's so much support here for the FL "relaxing" the embargo to let them bring in new players to replace current players on "inflated" contracts, on a one-in one-out basis. Rules are rules, and should be applied equally to everybody. Once you start "relaxing" them in "special" cases, you get the Pompeys of this world continually pushing the limits to see how far they'll be allowed to go.

 

Remember, the parachute payments were specifically introduced for just that reason, to allow relegated clubs to progressively replace expensive players with cheaper alternatives as their contracts expire. Pompey are already receiving £48m over 4 years to do that. An example of them wanting to have their cake & eat it too.

 

No favours. Let them sort themselves out within the rules, or go to the wall. They created their own problems.

EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
I'm surprised there's so much support here for the FL "relaxing" the embargo to let them bring in new players to replace current players on "inflated" contracts, on a one-in one-out basis. Rules are rules, and should be applied equally to everybody. Once you start "relaxing" them in "special" cases, you get the Pompeys of this world continually pushing the limits to see how far they'll be allowed to go.

 

Remember, the parachute payments were specifically introduced for just that reason, to allow relegated clubs to progressively replace expensive players with cheaper alternatives as their contracts expire. Pompey are already receiving £48m over 4 years to do that. An example of them wanting to have their cake & eat it too.

 

No favours. Let them sort themselves out within the rules, or go to the wall. They created their own problems.

 

Sounds fair to me.

tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted

I can't believe the FL has bent to the "Do as you likies" How does this equate with the treatment of Bournemouth?

 

If they are to recruit players they should be restricted to apprentices and lower leaves.

 

And another thing ... How can they recruit when they can't pay fair redundancy to those they sacked.

 

The league should be ashamed.

Looks like it's up to the taxman to sort out this mess.

COYHMRC.

hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
I am liking that very much. Brought a big smile to my face. :D

It's that combined AQ/BP sense of humour, mate. Few of us are blessed enough to have it.

Deano6

Deano6

Posted
Posted

The "What do you think our stating lineup for the first game of the season?" thread on PompeyWebForum must be a pretty short one!

saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
I'm surprised there's so much support here for the FL "relaxing" the embargo to let them bring in new players to replace current players on "inflated" contracts, on a one-in one-out basis. Rules are rules, and should be applied equally to everybody. Once you start "relaxing" them in "special" cases, you get the Pompeys of this world continually pushing the limits to see how far they'll be allowed to go.

 

Remember, the parachute payments were specifically introduced for just that reason, to allow relegated clubs to progressively replace expensive players with cheaper alternatives as their contracts expire. Pompey are already receiving £48m over 4 years to do that. An example of them wanting to have their cake & eat it too.

 

No favours. Let them sort themselves out within the rules, or go to the wall. They created their own problems.

 

I am not supporting them for getting more players. But trying to view it as if it were any club, no money and in admin, keepers out of contract and under a transfer embargo, i think it's fair for the league to allow a loan or freebee from lower league to come in to allow the club to compete. Best chance of paying any debts off is if the club is still going so it seems fair for the FL to do enough to keep them going.

 

They seem to have stated they will deal with things case by case so if they manage to get wid of the 5 or so they would like to, I would expect the league to let them bring in a keeper or 2 + up to 2 outfield players from youth or lower league loans.

 

Anything else would be an insult to any other team that has run it's self into trouble but taken the correct steps to try to get out of it.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
The rules as you say are not being broken.

 

You must have squad of 20 players. We havent got it

 

The quotes from the Football League do not say Pompey have been allowed to sign three players to make it up to twenty. I'm not saying they won't sign three players, but those quotes don't actually say they have been given permission for that.

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