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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Gemmel

Gemmel

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I think that is the only thing in pompooeys favour with regard to HMRC challenging. Whilst Griffins set out a better return, the reality is the aa is in charge and if the CVA fails, then has said he would look at liquidating the club and with chanarai owning the ground, gaydamak owning the other land and the players free to walk if it happened, there isnt any other assets to sell and the creditors would get nothing.

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emerson massey

emerson massey

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One thing i'm finding it hard to understand is how it is possible to come out of Admin without a CVA. Does AA just say, we are no longer in admin? Do they need to prove to anyone that they will not be continuing to trade as insolvent? If so, who would that be?

 

Sorry if this has been covered, but could not remember if it has.

 

Ta

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saintjay77

saintjay77

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Yes, to the last paragraph. The football creditors rule has no legal status - clubs comply because otherwise they have no business ie. they couldn't play football anymore. If a club was liquidated the football creditors would stand at the back of the queue along with all the other unsecured creditors.

 

Creditors could, in theory, take action against an administrator I think. As far as action against PFC goes though there's not a lot they can do. The insolvency really draws a line under the matter.

 

I think the point to remember about the first paragraph is that whilst that could happen and whilst it seems morally wrong, in most scenarios that would not actually benefit the owners; they are likely to have lost a lot of money too. If you believe what's reported, Chanrai is currently down by around £14m + any further contributions to find the administration. Al-Fahim is down £5m apparently. Al Faraj... well, goodness knows what that was all about!

 

Even if Chanrai assumes control for next to nothing it will take him a long time to get his money back and the prospect of making a profit is pretty slim. He will own Pompey - it's not exactly a great thing to own! There are far better ways of trying to make a quick buck!

 

Yeah I understand that if the club were to get liquidated and get shut down then everyone loses out. But if Chanrai has puppet mastered AA into serving up an offer that will in the end get rejected only for Chainrai to step in at the end offering just 1p in the pound as opposed to the 20p currently then he will have a club that is alive (just) for allot less than he was expecting. Surly that is an even better situation for him? I dont understand how the club if it were to still exist would not still be chased for something more than 1p in the pound.

 

Why would any business bother to look to pay more off when the ultimate option is what Chainrai might do?

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Saint_John

Saint_John

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From The Skate News

 

Makka,

12/07/2010 11:17:43

Lintonblue : HMRC will appeal at the last minute as thsy did with Leeds,mainly because Chanrai is getting the club back. If a new owner appears than HMRC wont challenge,but as AA is putting up barriers so Chanrai can keep the club this wont happen.

Then we exit admin without a CVA and a large points deduction. The CVA is then worthless and Chanrai can pay creditors as little as 1p in the £,and do what he wants with any income,so he wont put in a penny but take money out ,then the club will be finished once the parachute payments have gone,only this years are earmarked for football creditors.

 

Interesting point. Is that actually the case if the CVA is refused?

 

In the Leeds case the original offer was 1p in the £, this was increased to 8p in the £ the day before the cva vote.

After the cva was challeged by HMRC a the sale of the club was for 11.2p in the £.

 

A good read of events is http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/seasons/200708part1.htm

with the letter sent to creditors for the 11.2p offer http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/pdf/season200708kpmgletter.pdf

 

I think in the luton case a High Court judge said that the "terms of the cva" should be paid, but i cannot find that online now.

 

I expect any "private sale" of the Cheats to be at least 20p in the £, with 15pts or 17pts (2nd Admin) penalty points.

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saintjay77

saintjay77

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My understanding is if they come out of admin without the CVA in place, not only will they suffer a points deduction but they are no longer protected from creditors which basically means any creditor can apply to have them wound up. If the CVA is rejected on appeal they can stay in admin and try to put together another agreement but since the original proposal is supposedly the best deal available for creditors there would need to be some serious back tracking/manouevering to make this fly, either way emabargo stays in place.

 

Now whilst no one can predictable second guess what HRMC is likely to do, if HRMC's true aim is to teach football a lesson and pursue some of the more, let's call them colourful characters, that have been involved for personal transgressions, then the easiset and quickest way to do this is to try and get the CVA rejected wait for them to come out of admin, issue a winding up petition themselves and then they get to pick over the bones this could all happen in weeks. No need to wait the 9 months outlined in the CVA for the forensic accounting process every one says is thier primary objective.

 

Ah that makes sence and I think thats what I was missing.

 

If all else fails the club doesnt automatically just continue with slapped wrists. It also has a real chance of one of the creditors pushing it to be wound up and there fore who ever manouvered the club into this position would be left with a fat load of F all.

 

For a min I was thinking the more crap they got into the more they could get away with.

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sidthesquid

sidthesquid

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I can see those fans in San Diego, fresh from the excitement of the World Cup, feeling a little short changed by this squad full of stars from South Africa

 

Stewart, Ward, Mullins, Hughes, Wilson, Pack, Cowan-Hall, Brown, Nugent, Ritchie, Smith.

 

Not an exciting prospect when the biggest name on the team-sheet is Hayden Mullins....

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

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I can see those fans in San Diego, fresh from the excitement of the World Cup, feeling a little short changed by this squad full of stars from South Africa

 

Stewart, Ward, Mullins, Hughes, Wilson, Pack, Cowan-Hall, Brown, Nugent, Ritchie, Smith.

 

Not an exciting prospect when the biggest name on the team-sheet is Hayden Mullins....

 

I wonder if the Americans are that worried anyway.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

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as AA has made it quite clear that the americans are meeting the full cost of this tour and will want to recoup their outlay, I think they will be worried if a team of no hopers appears.

That won't fill seats, in fact it will be like a home game for them!

 

Or maybe I don't believe AA's claim about the cost of the US jolly not coming out of Pompey coffers, I would wager it's just another insult to creditors.

No doubt Storrie and AA will be topping up their tans in the states, unless they need to fly to Rome or Monaco for more urgent talks...the gravy train is still a rumbling on.

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FMPR

FMPR

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I can see those fans in San Diego, fresh from the excitement of the World Cup, feeling a little short changed by this squad full of stars from South Africa

 

Stewart, Ward, Mullins, Hughes, Wilson, Pack, Cowan-Hall, Brown, Nugent, Ritchie, Smith.

 

Not an exciting prospect when the biggest name on the team-sheet is Hayden Mullins....

 

Still more well known than the mighty league one legend that is Lambert.

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saintjay77

saintjay77

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Still more well known than the mighty league one legend that is Lambert.

 

TBF our club is not trying to sell its self as a team full of players from the WC. Our oponents in pre-season I assume will be quite pleased to be up againts L1's top scorer when billed to be against our recognised 1st team, but I guess they would be disapointed if we turned up with the saints XI that went to Winchester City on Saturday that included recognised (pro lol) Anthony Pulis.

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pedg

pedg

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I can see those fans in San Diego, fresh from the excitement of the World Cup, feeling a little short changed by this squad full of stars from South Africa

 

Stewart, Ward, Mullins, Hughes, Wilson, Pack, Cowan-Hall, Brown, Nugent, Ritchie, Smith.

 

Not an exciting prospect when the biggest name on the team-sheet is Hayden Mullins....

 

I know one person at pompey more well known than just about everyone in that squad... AA come on down....

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

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Nugent and Smith upfront every day of the week. Theres a reason why they have played top flight nearly their entire career

 

You really are a nugget. Tommy Smith has played 409 games in his league career, scoring 85 goals.

 

Wanna know how many PL games in that? 65

 

How about the number of PL goals? Drum roll please......4 (Four):lol: 2 of those were in 99/00.

 

His best season for goals was the 08/09 season - 17 from 44 games.

 

Only other times he's made double figures were in the Championship - 11 in 04/05 (Derby, 42 games), 11 in 00/01 (Watford, 43 games), 11 in 01/02 (Watford, 40 games).

 

So, feel a bit of a plank do you?:blush:

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Nugent and Smith upfront every day of the week. Theres a reason why they have played top flight nearly their entire career

 

Sorry but...

 

84% of Smith's 409 League appearances were outside the top flight

 

74% of Nugent's 246 League appearances were outside the top flight

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Right sider

Right sider

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84% of Smith's 409 League appearances were outside the top flight

 

74% of Nugent's 246 League appearances were outside the top flight

 

Pompey don't worry about figures, by the time AA gets hold of those stats then they will have both played most of their games in the top flight and scored in at least 50% of those too.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

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Nugent and Smith upfront every day of the week. Theres a reason why they have played top flight nearly their entire career

 

Any chance you're going to enlighten us as to what that reason is?

 

Has Corpse changed his username to fmpr??

 

You really are a nugget. Tommy Smith has played 409 games in his league career, scoring 85 goals.

 

Wanna know how many PL games in that? 65

 

How about the number of PL goals? Drum roll please......4 (Four):lol: 2 of those were in 99/00.

 

His best season for goals was the 08/09 season - 17 from 44 games.

 

Only other times he's made double figures were in the Championship - 11 in 04/05 (Derby, 42 games), 11 in 00/01 (Watford, 43 games), 11 in 01/02 (Watford, 40 games).

 

So, feel a bit of a plank do you?:blush:

 

David Nugent:

 

Second tier matches: 182

Premier League matches: 64

 

Second tier goals: 51

Premier League goals 9

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FMPR

FMPR

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Actually been out and dont spend my life on here funny that.

 

A correction which I did meant to write was Top flight and Championship but glad to have kept you amused. Remind me again what % of games Lambert has played at either of those two levels please?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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Posted
I can see those fans in San Diego, fresh from the excitement of the World Cup, feeling a little short changed by this squad full of stars from South Africa

 

Stewart, Ward, Mullins, Hughes, Wilson, Pack, Cowan-Hall, Brown, Nugent, Ritchie, Smith.

 

Not an exciting prospect when the biggest name on the team-sheet is Hayden Mullins....

Bugger, I just bought a ticket to watch some world-class soccer stars.

 

 

 

Not. :lol:

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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I think that is the only thing in pompooeys favour with regard to HMRC challenging. Whilst Griffins set out a better return, the reality is the aa is in charge and if the CVA fails, then has said he would look at liquidating the club and with chanarai owning the ground, gaydamak owning the other land and the players free to walk if it happened, there isnt any other assets to sell and the creditors would get nothing.

And that is the stick that Comical Andy is beating the unsecured creditors' heads with. But it is surely a bluff, because it means Chainrai would forgo whatever part of the £48m parachute money he can get his grubby hands on.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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Just realised they got rid of Papa Bouba Diop yesterday. Looks like they were after around £1M but the actual fee was un-disclosed.

 

How can a club in Admin make un-disclosed transfers? I thought that when it gets to the point of admin just about all financial dealings would be made much more public? For a club that has been run so badly a bit of transparency would be a welcome change to the clubs fans I would have thought.

 

The un-disclosed figures would only get revealed when the club gets liquidated anyway so whats the point of keeping quiet now?

I can only hazard a guess that they sold him for peanuts, and given they still need to offload other players, AA doesn't want other clubs to know just how desperate they are. :lol:

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NickG

NickG

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Because of the levels of debt involved, HMRC could appeal Pompey's 20p in the pound offer, while Palace get away with a farcical 1p-in-the-pound deal.

 

Inequalities? You bet. Fair? Not a chance.

 

An uncomfortable couple of days lie ahead for those with royal blue in their veins.

 

Hopefully the news will be good, and common sense will win the day. If that's not the case it will be time for all who care about this club to tell HMRC just what they feel about their actions.

 

This club is too important to let the Revenue rip it to pieces without having a fight to contend with.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

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Because of the levels of debt involved, HMRC could appeal Pompey's 20p in the pound offer, while Palace get away with a farcical 1p-in-the-pound deal.

 

Inequalities? You bet. Fair? Not a chance.

 

An uncomfortable couple of days lie ahead for those with royal blue in their veins.

 

Hopefully the news will be good, and common sense will win the day. If that's not the case it will be time for all who care about this club to tell HMRC just what they feel about their actions.

 

This club is too important to let the Revenue rip it to pieces without having a fight to contend with.

 

Were you quoting someone?

 

HMRC have every reason to take these toerags to the limit. They need to prove to football, once and for all, that the football creditors rule is totally unethical.

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