Pompey Takeover Saga

[lumuah]

I've heard Pompey have an open bus tour arranged for Sunday, regardless of whether they win the cup. When the lose 5-0, that'll be a great celebration for their relegation.

 

But will the Greatest Fans In The World ™ turn up? It'd be embarrassing if there were only a few hundred!

[krissyboy31]

Loved Andy Awful asking the question yesterday...

 

'Why is Android making the decisions now on wage capping?'

 

It's a fair point TBH, seeing they reportedly have a new CEO. Anyone fathomed what he is actually doing at the club yet?

[Super_Saint]

lol The ad on this page is skates.co.uk

[bridge too far]

It's a fair point TBH, seeing they reportedly have a new CEO. Anyone fathomed what he is actually doing at the club yet?

 

I think I've asked a couple of times WHY AA appointed a CEO? My (limited) understanding of administration is that the Administrator takes over that function as he (supposedly) runs the company once administration is in place.

 

Am I right?

[Saints foreva]

I've still got a nagging feeling that those ****s are going to win Saturday.

 

Not sure if I want to watch it or not, I might just watch it until half time and if the score is still 0-0 I shall turn it off.

 

Don't think I could watch them win the cup again.

[Master Bates]

[100%Red&White]

I've still got a nagging feeling that those ****s are going to win Saturday.

 

Not sure if I want to watch it or not, I might just watch it until half time and if the score is still 0-0 I shall turn it off.

 

Don't think I could watch them win the cup again.

 

I can't understand why any Saints fan would watch any skate match unless they were playing us, particularly a cup final!

 

If you must I highly recommend 'sound down' else you'll probably end up seeing the contents of your stomach again with all the scripted gushing over the 'Bestest fans in the WorldTM'

[ottery st mary]

I think I've asked a couple of times WHY AA appointed a CEO? My (limited) understanding of administration is that the Administrator takes over that function as he (supposedly) runs the company once administration is in place.

 

Am I right?

 

Since the CEO was appointed..has anyone heard from him or what his role actually entails....Wages must be very high..

 

Very strange appointment....

Edited 10 May, 2010 by ottery st mary
correction...not the usul spellin excuse

[Gorgiesaint]

Being reported now on Talksport that the FL clubs have accepted the PL's parachute payments.

[krissyboy31]

Being reported now on Talksport that the FL clubs have accepted the PL's parachute payments.

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6145731,00.html

[suewhistle]

I can't understand why any Saints fan would watch any skate match unless they were playing us, particularly a cup final!

 

To see a record cup final score??:-)

[slickmick]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6145731,00.html

 

 

Now if I was a creditor I would be holding out for more than 20p in the £.

 

Jammy gits seem to have things going their way at the moment.

[BigShadow]

Now if I was a creditor I would be holding out for more than 20p in the £.

 

Jammy gits seem to have things going their way at the moment.

 

Yes, but 'going their way' does not necessarily equate to getting off scot-free. Even at 20p in the £ - that's a lot of money to find. The skates think they will raise £35m from player sales - we all know they will be lucky to get £20m. Chanrai may well end up as owner, but I can't see him wanting to sink additional funds into the club, so.....best case scenario for them....

 

They start next season on 0 points having secured the CVA and rescheduled their football creditors to be paid off by the PL using parachute money for the next two years. They have flogged all the players they could, and brought in a few of Spurs youth team as loaners. They have a crap team, can't afford to bring anyone decent in, and have only their gate income to depend on....and the blue few will be even fewer in the Championship....so I'll generously suggest they could raise £7m from ticket sales. That doesn't even cover the £10m wage budget the Android has proposed. So throw in a bit of TV money and sponsorship, they might cover the wages - but what about all the other operating costs???

 

I must be missing something obvious....but even if PCFC's unsecured debts were settled at 0p in the £...I still don't see how they are a viable proposition with a £10m wage bill. So I think the Skates misery will continue for a long time to come.

[Matthew Le God]

I wonder if the CVA proposal will have possible relegation to League One factored into the repayments scheme?

[rallyboy]

any due diligence will also have to factor in future points penalties following the Storrie gang's date in court, I'm sure AA will mention that to the queue of interested parties.

 

So creditors are now being told that a company assured of £48M, possibly advanced, can't pay more than 20p in the pound.

Good luck with that one.

 

Come on taxman, we've waited long enough, get in there.

[OldNick]

I think we have to wait until after the cup final to see what will happen.

If they get a CVA, something that the general media think they will and then they have put two fingers up to the world and won

[70's Mike]

all a load of pikey crooks

[mcjwills]

Yes, but 'going their way' does not necessarily equate to getting off scot-free. Even at 20p in the £ - that's a lot of money to find. The skates think they will raise £35m from player sales - we all know they will be lucky to get £20m. Chanrai may well end up as owner, but I can't see him wanting to sink additional funds into the club, so.....best case scenario for them....

 

They start next season on 0 points having secured the CVA and rescheduled their football creditors to be paid off by the PL using parachute money for the next two years. They have flogged all the players they could, and brought in a few of Spurs youth team as loaners. They have a crap team, can't afford to bring anyone decent in, and have only their gate income to depend on....and the blue few will be even fewer in the Championship....so I'll generously suggest they could raise £7m from ticket sales. That doesn't even cover the £10m wage budget the Android has proposed. So throw in a bit of TV money and sponsorship, they might cover the wages - but what about all the other operating costs???

 

I must be missing something obvious....but even if PCFC's unsecured debts were settled at 0p in the £...I still don't see how they are a viable proposition with a £10m wage bill. So I think the Skates misery will continue for a long time to come.

 

Once in the CVA will they be able to borrow money, or as with an IVA will they not be allowed any debt and have to live within their means until The CVA is finished?

[TUS]

Once in the CVA will they be able to borrow money, or as with an IVA will they not be allowed any debt and have to live within their means until The CVA is finished?

 

Its unlikely and a very similar situation to an IVA. Essentially their credit rating is shot to pieces. I'd be surprised if they got credit with small local suppliers let alone major lenders.

[TUS]

http://www.beatmydebt.com/news-articles/how-can-I-reduce-my-company-debt-with-a-company-voluntary-arrangement.htm

[suewhistle]

I'd be surprised if they got credit with small local suppliers let alone major lenders.

 

Surprised, I'd be ... well, the sort of language I don't use in public... amazed.

[Faz]

This has a way to run, in my view.

 

Andy Android has questioned whether HMRC can add on the image rights £15m, which potentially gives HMRC suffcient power to block the CVA - particularly when you discount interested parties.

 

If AA seeks a ruling in the courts, then expect HMRC to challenge a good deal of the other debts which appeared post the SoA.

 

HMRC have never backed a CVA because of the Football Creditors rule.

 

Plenty of pages left in this old dog yet.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

This has a way to run, in my view.

 

Andy Android has questioned whether HMRC can add on the image rights £15m, which potentially gives HMRC suffcient power to block the CVA - particularly when you discount interested parties.

 

If AA seeks a ruling in the courts, then expect HMRC to challenge a good deal of the other debts which appeared post the SoA.

 

HMRC have never backed a CVA because of the Football Creditors rule.

 

Plenty of pages left in this old dog yet.

Agreed 100%

[Jimmy_D]

On BBC saying that the new parachute payments come into force from the END of next season. Pompey miss out it seems.

[Picard]

The Times says the opposite:

 

Hull City, Burnley and Portsmouth will receive £16 million for each of the next two seasons and £8 million for each of the two after that. The other Championship clubs will receive £2.3 million a year, League One sides £325,000 and League Two clubs £250,000.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article7122250.ece

[Gingeletiss]

As an aside, I bring you all back to the debate on FL v Poorsmouth, and the minus points saga. They face a record points deduction IMO, Not only will they start on a minus points tally, they will face further reductions as the various court cases for it's former directors, are found to be proved.

 

 

Also this little matter, they may not owe the below amount, but they must owe something!:-

 

Confusion over the extent of Portsmouth's debt is further complicated by totally separate claim for a staggering £50 million filed by the Football League Pension Fund, which covers non-playing employees of clubs and which, if genuine, would take the amount the club owe close to the £200 million barrier.

An administrative error of such magnitude seems remarkable but Andronikou insists the claim is completely fictitious and that the real figure Portsmouth owe is £34,000. "I have a proxy of the proof of debt sitting on my desk but we have no idea why it has arrived. No doubt the media will make a meal of this but my impression is that is more likely simply a marker in case the club goes out of business."

 

 

Football League sources also laughed off the claim saying it could not possibly be genuine since the deficit of the entire fund, covering roughly 90 clubs, was less than a third of £50 million. "Clubs are involved in helping pay off the deficit depending on how many non-playing staff they have but there is no way Portsmouth could have been asked for that sum of money," said one insider.

[dubai_phil]

As an aside, I bring you all back to the debate on FL v Poorsmouth, and the minus points saga. They face a record points deduction IMO, Not only will they start on a minus points tally, they will face further reductions as the various court cases for it's former directors, are found to be proved.

 

 

Also this little matter, they may not owe the below amount, but they must owe something!:-

 

Confusion over the extent of Portsmouth's debt is further complicated by totally separate claim for a staggering £50 million filed by the Football League Pension Fund, which covers non-playing employees of clubs and which, if genuine, would take the amount the club owe close to the £200 million barrier.

 

An administrative error of such magnitude seems remarkable but Andronikou insists the claim is completely fictitious and that the real figure Portsmouth owe is £34,000. "I have a proxy of the proof of debt sitting on my desk but we have no idea why it has arrived. No doubt the media will make a meal of this but my impression is that is more likely simply a marker in case the club goes out of business."

 

 

Football League sources also laughed off the claim saying it could not possibly be genuine since the deficit of the entire fund, covering roughly 90 clubs, was less than a third of £50 million. "Clubs are involved in helping pay off the deficit depending on how many non-playing staff they have but there is no way Portsmouth could have been asked for that sum of money," said one insider.

 

 

Lol

 

I wonder which member of the Elite TSW attack force Photshopped that and sent it through to AA

 

:finga:

 

 

And no I'm not that type of Intelligent Evil Mastermind & don't have photoshop unfortunately. But I do wish I had thought of that and other evil wheezes

[Daren W]

Comical. Refers to Saints fans as being uneducated but can't even spell properly. Gimp.

 

Poor support? From the club that half filled Fratton Park for two FA cup games and then suddenly got interested in the cup once they got to the semis?

Jesus what a gimp....

[stevegrant]

Poor support? From the club that half filled Fratton Park for two FA cup games and then suddenly got interested in the cup once they got to the semis?

Jesus what a gimp....

And then weren't that interested when they subsequently got to the final...

[rallyboy]

That creditors list is a piece of fiction as is the debt figure, but we don't know where it is on the £60M-150M spectrum.

I personally know of one case where AA says they are owed £20K and the puzzled creditor denies it.

If he has ludicrously inflated it to leave his client as the only worthy owner it's backfired because it's just cost him an extra £17M from the taxman.

He seems to have a loose business plan to obtain for his master a business that can generate maybe £70M in the next four years.

The additional parachute money was a bonus but the fact that it goes to football creditors first along with 20% of transfers is a blow.

Add in the fragile nature of his house of cards and it could all fall down any day, possibly next week when a few things should become clearer.

 

Nice try AA but I still think it will unravel and when it does it will be like Maradona's first big signing at the Harbourside Superdome - Messi.

[dubai_phil]

That creditors list is a piece of fiction as is the debt figure, but we don't know where it is on the £60M-150M spectrum.

I personally know of one case where AA says they are owed £20K and the puzzled creditor denies it.

If he has ludicrously inflated it to leave his client as the only worthy owner it's backfired because it's just cost him an extra £17M from the taxman.

He seems to have a loose business plan to obtain for his master a business that can generate maybe £70M in the next four years.

The additional parachute money was a bonus but the fact that it goes to football creditors first along with 20% of transfers is a blow.

Add in the fragile nature of his house of cards and it could all fall down any day, possibly next week when a few things should become clearer.

 

Nice try AA but I still think it will unravel and when it does it will be like Maradona's first big signing at the Harbourside Superdome - Messi.

 

 

from the other angle, the bigger the mess has become the easier it would eventually be to say - It's no good we give up, we did all we could, the club is gone.

 

And for the Tesco's & Housing planning application to be lodged the same day.

 

AA could be buying time for the Architects to finish their designs

[trousers]

Plenty of pages left in this old dog yet.

 

Oh joy

[trousers]

I've just turned down a corporate ticket to the Cup Final.

 

Tricky decision: 'Go and see Pompey humiliated by Chelsea' or 'refuse to go on principle'

 

Nick Clegg could learn a lot from me....

[suewhistle]

from the other angle, the bigger the mess has become the easier it would eventually be to say - It's no good we give up, we did all we could, the club is gone.

 

And for the Tesco's & Housing planning application to be lodged the same day.

 

AA could be buying time for the Architects to finish their designs

 

Anybody know any Chelsea fans? Could you teach them the chant for Wembley:

 

"Fratton Park is a future block of flats, future block of flats, future block of flats"

[Frank's cousin]

That creditors list is a piece of fiction as is the debt figure, but we don't know where it is on the £60M-150M spectrum.

I personally know of one case where AA says they are owed £20K and the puzzled creditor denies it.

If he has ludicrously inflated it to leave his client as the only worthy owner it's backfired because it's just cost him an extra £17M from the taxman.

He seems to have a loose business plan to obtain for his master a business that can generate maybe £70M in the next four years.

The additional parachute money was a bonus but the fact that it goes to football creditors first along with 20% of transfers is a blow.

Add in the fragile nature of his house of cards and it could all fall down any day, possibly next week when a few things should become clearer.

 

Nice try AA but I still think it will unravel and when it does it will be like Maradona's first big signing at the Harbourside Superdome - Messi.

 

Thing is the maths DO add up - if you take a four year plan with 138 mil of debt as your starting point:

 

4 year Revenue:

 

48 mil parachute payments

20 mil CCC TV + FL funding (3 mill per year TV, 2 mil per year FL)

32 mil Gates and Commercial assume 8Totalmil per year

10 mil PLayer sales (year 1 only)

 

Total £110 mil

 

4 year expenditure

 

17 mil football debt

15 mil Chanrai debt

5 mil players (football debt)

20 mill (20p in £ creditor repayment)

 

Total £57 mil

 

Net revenue for 4 years £110 -£57 mil = £ 53 mil

 

£53 mil divided by 4 years is £13.25 mil per season

 

That would allow for approx £8 mil wages per season which is not bad for CCC, so provided they get CVA agreement and the various parties agree to the way the debt is structured, eg Chanrai etc - its a perfectly serviceable situation.

 

So financially they will be OK if all that is agreed

 

Points wise is another matter - Based on the above is Footballing debt is paid and CVA agreed, no further points deductions. However if the debt repayment is structured so that not all the Footballing + Player debt is paid before the season starts, the FL might consider this unpaid and impose a deduction...who knows...

 

What is unclear is this issue of the volutary liquidation in 9 months time and what the FL will make of this...

 

Either way they have been very Jammy... the -9 points this season had no real impact - most agree they would have gone down anyway - if anything its possible they scored more points because of it as it took away the pressure, Fortunate that they get relegated the very season the Parachute jumps from 23 mil to 48 mil.... so in effect written off approx 80 mil without any real penalty....

[bridge too far]

I thought the increase in Parachute Payments came into force at the end of NEXT SEASON?

[PaulSaint]

At the very least though, shouldnt they be docked 2 points for being in admin twice in 10 years? I think this happened to both Bournemouth & Rotherham so a prededent has been set?

[tony13579]

As an aside, I bring you all back to the debate on FL v Poorsmouth, and the minus points saga. They face a record points deduction IMO, Not only will they start on a minus points tally, they will face further reductions as the various court cases for it's former directors, are found to be proved.

 

 

Also this little matter, they may not owe the below amount, but they must owe something!:-

 

Confusion over the extent of Portsmouth's debt is further complicated by totally separate claim for a staggering £50 million filed by the Football League Pension Fund, which covers non-playing employees of clubs and which, if genuine, would take the amount the club owe close to the £200 million barrier.

An administrative error of such magnitude seems remarkable but Andronikou insists the claim is completely fictitious and that the real figure Portsmouth owe is £34,000. "I have a proxy of the proof of debt sitting on my desk but we have no idea why it has arrived. No doubt the media will make a meal of this but my impression is that is more likely simply a marker in case the club goes out of business."

 

£34 thousand??? £34 million???

 

 

Football League sources also laughed off the claim saying it could not possibly be genuine since the deficit of the entire fund, covering roughly 90 clubs, was less than a third of £50 million. "Clubs are involved in helping pay off the deficit depending on how many non-playing staff they have but there is no way Portsmouth could have been asked for that sum of money," said one insider.

 

£34 thousand??? £34 million???

 

 

If thier pension deficit was revalued in a tri-annual valuation based on the low stockmarket values around over the last year I can easily see a £34 million debt turning into £50 million.

Edited 11 May, 2010 by tony13579

[saintjay77]

I still think the FL should be docking points off them this season otherwise we should have a case to say we shouldnt have had our -10 this season which would put us in the play-off spots. This would create a huge legal battle and could really hurt the FL.

 

Why should it be 1 rule for dropping out of the prem and a different rule for everyone else?

 

So have the FL suggested how they aim to deal with this at all or are we still guessing at what will happen?

[Gorgiesaint]

Talksport just confirming Zola sacked as West Ham manager - Ian Abrahams (The Moose) reckons Avram Grant will be announced as new West Ham manager next week - and he is usually pretty accurate when it comes to all things West Ham.

[fromdayone]

At the very least though, shouldnt they be docked 2 points for being in admin twice in 10 years? I think this happened to both Bournemouth & Rotherham so a prededent has been set?

 

Plus the (hopefully) inevitable deductions for;

 

1. Financial irregularities....tax evasion storrie, redknapp, mandaric.

2. Use of unlicensed football agent.

3. Admission by Azougy himself, on BBC documentary, that he had complete control of

finances at the club!.... surely a 'shadow director'??

 

Anymore for anymore?

[rallyboy]

Grant won't be leaving, he has a job to do, you can't break his spirit, he will forever stand shoulder to shoulder with the fans, he loves them, he loves the club, they've been cheated, the table lies, he will fight for the club forever!!

 

 

 

Well, until 20mins in on Saturday when they are three down and his mind starts wandering.....

 

Men who make money from porn.....and they own a financially-fragile football club.....mmmmm, sounds like his perfect job.

 

They might even let him splash out on some youngsters.

[dronskisaint]

I've just turned down a corporate ticket to the Cup Final.

 

Tricky decision: 'Go and see Pompey humiliated by Chelsea' or 'refuse to go on principle'

 

Nick Clegg could learn a lot from me....

 

You're saying that was a tricky decision?!:confused:

[suewhistle]

Incidentally, have they sold all their tickets yet?

[Master Bates]

A man that won on the National Lottery has bought Portsmouth Football Club. In an interview following this, his wife was quoted as saying: 'God only knows what he'd have spent the winnings on had he matched 4 numbers!'

[Chez]

Incidentally, have they sold all their tickets yet?

 

yes

[Chez]

I thought the increase in Parachute Payments came into force at the end of NEXT SEASON?

 

Skates, Burnley and Hull will all get the £48m over 4 years, split £16m, £16m, £8m and £8m - starting in August 2010.

[Wibble]

After Andronikou addressed the creditors last week I sent an email to Greg Clarke at the Football League voicing my concerns.

 

 

I just received a reply

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your email, to which I am responding on behalf of Mr Clarke.

 

 

 

We are certainly aware of the issues surrounding Portsmouth FC at this time and we will be considering their position once the club are officially a Football League member after June’s AGM.

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Nick Jones

 

Customer Services Officer

 

The Football League Ltd

 

Email: njones@football-league.co.uk

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk

 

 

 

Roll on June

[SuperMikey]

A man that won on the National Lottery has bought Portsmouth Football Club. In an interview following this, his wife was quoted as saying: 'God only knows what he'd have spent the winnings on had he matched 4 numbers!'

 

You bastard, I was just about to post that!

[100%Red&White]

Incidentally, have they sold all their tickets yet?

 

Indeed they have, they managed to find all those "fratton-faithfull" who suddenly appeared around cup final time in 2008 and mysteriously disappeared soon after.

 

Another question, are they all wearing their pink scarves to Wembley as it's been such a successful protest?