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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
You might be on to something here. Because I'm sure the way it works is that the Administrator is responsible for all debts accrued since the introduction of administration.

 

Oh - you've just added this to your edited post!

 

Yeah, forgot to add the reasoning behind my thinking!!!

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
And presumably what happened to Southampton Leisure Holdings when Markus took us over.

 

No....he bought the company as it stood, no name change that I know of. I think that SLH as now been mothballed, I'm sure someone will come on and tell the truth of it!

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
This has a long way to play yet and, despite what others may wail, they aren't going to get away with it.

 

I hope so. I expect there will be some dark secrets to come out of the skates financial books that will give the FL due cause to punish the club. It's just nice to know that will be the case now.

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View From The Top

View From The Top

Posted
Posted
I hope so. I expect there will be some dark secrets to come out of the skates financial books that will give the FL due cause to punish the club. It's just nice to know that will be the case now.

 

We all want it now, but it will come, of that I've no doubt.

 

This isn't the beginning of the end just the end of the beginning.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

AA having established a selling price in his own mind still appears no closer to securing that little formality that has thus far proved elusive - a buyer....

 

I'm impressed that the taxman has managed to get his own deal up to 40p in the pound but I reckon he still wants the lot.

 

And AA's masterplan of announcing a future liquidation not only gives the FL time to rewrite the rulebook in advance so they can hit them very hard but won't it also mean that any parachute payments will halt with the closure of the company they were due to?

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted
AA having established a selling price in his own mind still appears no closer to securing that little formality that has thus far proved elusive - a buyer....

 

I'm impressed that the taxman has managed to get his own deal up to 40p in the pound but I reckon he still wants the lot.

 

And AA's masterplan of announcing a future liquidation not only gives the FL time to rewrite the rulebook in advance so they can hit them very hard but won't it also mean that any parachute payments will halt with the closure of the company they were due to?

 

I'm still gonna say he has one lined up....Chanrai.

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Faz

Faz

Posted
Posted

So, HMRC have said AA can work up a CVA proposal, to be put to the creditors in 10 days time.

 

If the CVAis not agreed, AA suggests liquidation of PCFC

 

HMRC now have, we believe, sufficient voting power to block said CVA.

 

HMRC have always, in the past, voted against CVAs becuase of the football creditors rule.

 

The football creditors rule is still in place.

 

Too simple?

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Panda

Panda

Posted
Posted
So, HMRC have said AA can work up a CVA proposal, to be put to the creditors in 10 days time.

 

If the CVAis not agreed, AA suggests liquidation of PCFC

 

HMRC now have, we believe, sufficient voting power to block said CVA.

 

HMRC have always, in the past, voted against CVAs becuase of the football creditors rule.

 

The football creditors rule is still in place.

 

Too simple?

 

Yes, far too simple! This is a very complex situation and it does not seem to be going the way we in Southampton would like ... there is a lot of clutching of straws going on here.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

I posted this on the "Other Thread" on the main forum but add some comments to it

 

Bear in mind also one important point.

 

Legally, SLH & SFC had a cast iron case that they should not have any points deduction. Nothing to do with morally right, but LEGALLY the case was watertight and had been checked by some VERY influential legal minds in London.

 

At the end of the day however, the FL said, very simply and very clearly, NO.

 

Effectively they blackmailed us, along the lines of - You appeal then you cannot play in the League until the Court Case is finished.

 

Do not for one minute believe that the FL will allow any club to come up with a "Clever Scheme" to gain an unfair advantage from previous finanical mismanagement.

 

It is THEIR League. PCFC can appeal any deduction but the FL will say the same thing to them - not a problem, go and appeal and when the legal case is finished we will find you a gap in the pyramid and give you back your golden share.

 

The PRECEDENT already exists

 

Now, let us examine some of the things we have already seen made public.

 

- Storrie has stated his belief in public that the money came from Arcadi - major Breach of PL rules bordering on criminal

 

- Statement that money was owed to an Un-Registered Agent in respect of transfers from French Clubs of players - major breach of UEFA regulations

 

- Financial Statement made to PL in January regarding the Transfer Embargo stating that the club did not have any major financial problems and allowing them to sign loan players (for whom they have NOT paid any fees) - major breach of PL regulations and could possibly be fraudulent.

 

Now we KNOW that there is a precedent for the FL imposing a points penalty if they believe an unfair advantage is being gained - it happened to us.

We KNOW that Luton were given a points penalty for illegal payments to agents.

 

We have NO IDEA what the penalties could be for Fraud or possible Criminal actions regarding financial statements and ownership issues.

 

Assume for one moment that AA's plan DOES allow them to reform as a shell club for 5 years having all their money sucked out to repay the 20% of the debts, there are AT LEAST 20 points in penalties that COULD be applied that have nothing to do with the "methodology" of their escape route.

 

Does ANYONE honestly believe that the CCC clubs and the rest of the FL clubs would vote to be NICE to an operation that has without ANY shadow of doubt brought Football into Disrepute?

 

PCFC's appalling Corporate Compliance will have massive ramifications for the rest of Football. ALL regulations will be tightened up and loopholes closed. A lot of this will add new admin or legal costs to other football clubs. And you guys WORRY that the FL will be nice to them....

 

Yeah right, they're toast

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lumuah

lumuah

Posted
Posted
FL have no juristiction over PFC at the moment as they are still a prem league club, when does this officially end?

About 4.45 tomorrow

 

Doesn't it change somewhen around 1 June officially (after all of the playoffs conclude)?

 

So if there are any more 'revelations' before then it is up to the Prem to deal with it, but after then it will be the FL.

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Burger

Burger

Posted
Posted
I posted this on the "Other Thread" on the main forum but add some comments to it

 

 

Now, let us examine some of the things we have already seen made public.

 

- Storrie has stated his belief in public that the money came from Arcadi - major Breach of PL rules bordering on criminal

 

- Statement that money was owed to an Un-Registered Agent in respect of transfers from French Clubs of players - major breach of UEFA regulations

 

- Financial Statement made to PL in January regarding the Transfer Embargo stating that the club did not have any major financial problems and allowing them to sign loan players (for whom they have NOT paid any fees) - major breach of PL regulations and could possibly be fraudulent.

 

Now we KNOW that there is a precedent for the FL imposing a points penalty if they believe an unfair advantage is being gained - it happened to us.

We KNOW that Luton were given a points penalty for illegal payments to agents.

 

We have NO IDEA what the penalties could be for Fraud or possible Criminal actions regarding financial statements and ownership issues.

 

Assume for one moment that AA's plan DOES allow them to reform as a shell club for 5 years having all their money sucked out to repay the 20% of the debts, there are AT LEAST 20 points in penalties that COULD be applied that have nothing to do with the "methodology" of their escape route.

 

Does ANYONE honestly believe that the CCC clubs and the rest of the FL clubs would vote to be NICE to an operation that has without ANY shadow of doubt brought Football into Disrepute?

 

PCFC's appalling Corporate Compliance will have massive ramifications for the rest of Football. ALL regulations will be tightened up and loopholes closed. A lot of this will add new admin or legal costs to other football clubs. And you guys WORRY that the FL will be nice to them....

 

Yeah right, they're toast

 

All sins committed as members of the PL. What have they done wrong as members of the FL that will force the FL to punish them?

 

Let me join "the buggers are going to get away with it" camp.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
All sins committed as members of the PL. What have they done wrong as members of the FL that will force the FL to punish them?

 

Let me join "the buggers are going to get away with it" camp.

 

The FA also have the power to deduct points, as well as the PL and FL.

 

"The Hatters had already been deducted 10 points by the Football Association after being found guilty of misconduct for paying agents via a third party.

 

And the company which will take over the club has now been told it must accept a further 20-point deduction in order to be allowed in the Football League.

 

The penalty came after Luton failed to satisfy the League's insolvency rules."

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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
The FA also have the power to deduct points, as well as the PL and FL.

 

"The Hatters had already been deducted 10 points by the Football Association after being found guilty of misconduct for paying agents via a third party.

 

And the company which will take over the club has now been told it must accept a further 20-point deduction in order to be allowed in the Football League.

 

The penalty came after Luton failed to satisfy the League's insolvency rules."

 

But if the FA were gonna punish them for all their cheating surely they would have thrown them out of the FA Cup by now?

 

 

Cheats.

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Guest Dark Sotonic Mills

Guest Dark Sotonic Mills

Posted
Posted
But if the FA were gonna punish them for all their cheating surely they would have thrown them out of the FA Cup by now?

 

 

Cheats.

 

I don't think that's a sanction they can apply.

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gaz

gaz

Posted
Posted

The problem is, theres no precedent, so its *very* murky waters for what penalties can and can't be applied. The closest would probably be Chester City being kicked out of the Conference for not fulfilling their fixtures (players going on strike over unpaid wages), but even then, thats not the Footbal League.

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tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
The take over seems to be going as we anticipated...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/07/figures-tight-portsmouth-bid

 

Rob lloyd said the figures are going to be tight at 20p in the £1.

.....

But he isnt paying it!

Its 4p in the pound now and 4p a year coming out of parachute money!

 

What help to any bussiness or school whos had thier fingers burnt by pompey is 4p? Does it pay the wages? the fuel? 4p in the pound isn't even realy the interest on the money!

 

Its not 20p in the pound... its 4p.... do you realy think they will vote to accept? I would rather see them melt down than accept 4p.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted

I don't know if this has been posted already so apols if it has.

 

On BBC 1 South, at 3.15pm Sunday afternoon, there's a programme 'Fit and Proper Persons'.

 

"On the eve of its second FA Cup Final appearance in three years, Portsmouth are also the first Premiership football club to go into administration, and have been relegated On the eve of its second FA Cup Final appearance in three years, Portsmouth are also the first Premiership football club to go into administration, and have been relegated from English football's top flight.

Tony Husband investigates the club that's had four owners in six months, couldn't pay its players' wages on time, and now has debts of 138 million pounds."

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positivepete

positivepete

Posted
Posted
All sins committed as members of the PL. What have they done wrong as members of the FL that will force the FL to punish them?

 

Let me join "the buggers are going to get away with it" camp.

 

I would like to think that the authorities are waiting until the season ends before dealing with this. It is far easier for them during this period and there is still time to sort out sanctions before the fixtures are produced. Besides they will not have anything to deal with if they are liquidated which is still a possibility, the CVA has not been agreed yet.

 

I am sure this will keep us together on the board during the next couple of months!

 

Sadly missed the last match as in Trinidad for three weeks. My son took a Pompey fan friend of his to show him what a half decent crowd looks like, and to give him a chance of switching allegiance before the crash.

 

Should be back for the big match, just in time to jet off to Dubai Plil land.

 

Had a note from Steve Grant to say that the end of season dinner is going to be close season?! So probably our sponsored player Simon Gillett will not be there, nor will Jamie White who my son knows from training at the same Tyro club, as rumour is that he is off to play abroad.

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positivepete

positivepete

Posted
Posted

Anyone else seethe parallels between the labour party and Portsmouth? Ten years of unfunded boom ending in a big bust, in denial but still blaming everyone else!

Good article on newarse.com

http://newsarse.com/2010/05/07/gordon-brown-to-claim-election-victory-via-the-duckworth-lewis-method/

 

Sort of thing Avram would claim if he knew anything about cricket

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

Was this ever factored in?

 

The club simply cannot afford Grant if the stories are true about his 1m Euros a year are correct. This would represent nearly 10% of the clubs wage bill. Can't see him want into take cut in wages can you?

 

With Belgium, possibly West Ham and others dangling carrots it is inconceivable that Grant will be the the manager next season.

 

We all need to move on and accept he is as good as gone.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted (edited)

What stupid t0ssers some of these mongs really are!

 

http://www.fansonline.net/portsmouth/mb/view.php?id=267350

 

westbourne_blue Posted on 08/05/2010 09:43

Why would any one buy Pompey?

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Obviously a wind-up but I'll go first.

 

PFC: own their own ground (just?) but have an (outside) chance of relocating to take profits from redevelopment; have a (recent) history of winning major trophies; have a large catchment area without any big competitors within a radius of about 75 miles.

 

 

 

WOOERRERRNICKYMORGAN Posted on 08/05/2010 09:55

Why would any one buy Pompey?

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The scums Attendances are Reasonable,due to the Fact they literally give hundreds upon hundreds of tickets out free each Week,and others for Next to nothing,FACT!

Edited by Gingeletiss
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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

he's thick.

He had no idea there were money problems, he didn't bother prossies, he just had them massage his non-dangly areas, the league table is lies and he believes all the club's woes are down to other people.

Poor bloke, like the club he's just a victim, of his own stupidity.

 

He has managed to go from respected coach to idiot in six months without passing go and certainly without collecting his £200.

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Picard

Picard

Posted
Posted

Secret deal with the PL?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/pompey-to-appeal-revenues-demand-for-16315m-1969263.html

 

Meanwhile, it emerged that the Premier League may have struck a secret deal to partially bail out Pompey, though details are being kept under wraps. Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore has shown little sympathy for Portsmouth since they were docked nine points but it is now understood some kind of deal might have been struck.

 

"We are under an information embargo," Andronikou said. "All I can say is that we have made an agreement with the Premier League that effectively secures the future of the club going forward."

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Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted

The PL should pay all of the tv money that Pompey are due via parachute payments now. This should be on the understanding that it goes directly to the creditors, and that they sell all bankable assets, including players and the ground. At least this way the creditors get the maximum amount of money due to them.

 

Currently you have hangers on who are sniffing around the club as they smell tv money. This stinks. The above approach will remove any of the stinking money grabbers that are still looking to make a fast buck out of Pompey.

 

For AA to be talking about players earning a maximum of £10k a week, whilst the club still owes £140m is an absolute disgrace....especially considering who some of the creditors are....charities, local business, schools etc.

 

If Pompey start next season with anything less than players they can't shift (i.e. worthless or stuck on big contracts), renting a ground, on minus points and no tv money due to them from the PL, then the whole situation becomes a complete farce.

 

Football (and especially the PL) is a stinking cesspit and I fear that it will be proven over the course of the summer.

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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted

 

If the PL have done a deal to support Pompey then I would say they are on dangerous ground. Without a full investigation, its impossible to say exactly what has gone on but criminal offences are likely to have taken place and potentially still taking place. Would that make the PL culpable as they are now aiding & abetting?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
If the PL have done a deal to support Pompey then I would say they are on dangerous ground. Without a full investigation, its impossible to say exactly what has gone on but criminal offences are likely to have taken place and potentially still taking place. Would that make the PL culpable as they are now aiding & abetting?

 

They haven't done a deal!

 

Are there really people out there that STILL believe a word that the Android says?

 

Lol @ his 'information embargo' :rolleyes: I think he's putting together his insanity defence before the authorities swoop.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

Posted
Posted

If the PL had done a deal with Pompey (which I seriously doubt as anything AA says is usually the opposite of the facts) then it would be merely to get them to the end of their jurisdiction without going bust.

 

Remember The PL want shot of Pompey ASAP, Pompey are an embarrassment to the PL. The PL wanna make sure they get to the end of this season unscathed while under their jurisdiction, then not want to see them darken the PL's door for a very long time.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

IMHO, as soon as the season is officially over, and Poor smouth are no longer the PL's responsibility, then the sh1te will hit the fan big time. Powers to be have held this together with sticky tape and chewing gum, to get the cheats to the end of the season, so as not to queer their league positioning. The house of cards is about to tumble.

 

Also, I'm in the camp of, don't believe a word that AA say's, he also talks utter crap.

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted

As much as the man talks utter carp, and seems to pretty much over dramatise the little agreements he does come to, you can't deny that there must be some sort of agreement, no matter how small that he is talking about ??

 

If the PL are really helping PFC it will be a f*cking joke, they have already sought to gain an advantage over the other PL clubs, and IMO when the PL removed the transfer embargo and they continued to buy players the PL should have come down hard on them.

 

You have to agree to Ginge though (for once) you get the impression that the PL have papered over the cracks and pushed this horrible little club to the finish line, they will they turn around and deny all responsibility.

 

The FL won't be so forgiving.

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miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

Posted
Posted
As much as the man talks utter carp, and seems to pretty much over dramatise the little agreements he does come to, you can't deny that there must be some sort of agreement, no matter how small that he is talking about ??

 

If the PL are really helping PFC it will be a f*cking joke, they have already sought to gain an advantage over the other PL clubs, and IMO when the PL removed the transfer embargo and they continued to buy players the PL should have come down hard on them.

 

You have to agree to Ginge though (for once) you get the impression that the PL have papered over the cracks and pushed this horrible little club to the finish line, they will they turn around and deny all responsibility.

 

The FL won't be so forgiving.

Listening to Scudamore on Radio 5 this morning, it didn`t sound like he had much sympathy for the skates, so I can`t believe that the PL will do much to help them.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted

 

LOL

 

They hope to get £35 million from player sales. Clealry they do not understand the meaning of the word "firesale". What will happen if Utaka wants to sit there collecting his £30k per week plus "image rights" rather than move on and take a paycut??

 

They will do well to collect more than £15 million from player sales.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

 

Documents obtained by Telegraph Sport show all of the salaries of the playing staff at the Fratton Park club and their estimated transfer value.

They show the south-coast club, whose debts now stand at £138 million, still spend £657,023 a week on player wages. Goalkeeper David James is the highest-paid player, earning £40,000 a week.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the administrators job, was to reduce the debt, and it seems to me, that one way was to offload their top earners. Instead, they have Storrieteller on some sort of gardening leave, a new CEO in his place, plus the admistration team!, and an agreement from the premier league, that they could sell their players.

 

So, how many players have been sold, thus reducing their £657,023 a week wage bill, Could this be construed as unnessary debt, leaving AA's team liable?

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Sevvy

Sevvy

Posted
Posted

Dont know if its already been posted but did anyone hear the Danny Baker show on five live yesterday, they did the pompeys creditors list to one of the songs from Pirates of Penzance, Brilliant

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