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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

Posted
Posted

lol their debt has gone up from £130 million this morning on the news, to £134m by the time Moyles finished his show, £138m for Fern Cottons show and now Greg James is on it's up to £140m! haha... by the end of tommorow it should be up to £200m with any luck!

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Seaford Saint

Seaford Saint

Posted
Posted
Sympathy?

 

Well yes and no... firstly I dont want ANY club to go out of usiness completely - clubs whoever they are are at the heart of the community and we do have a long and fine tradition in the Country about what clubs mean to the towns from which they come.

 

I have every sympathy in some respects for fans becasue yes, its true that they had no influence on what was happening off the field - so taken in isolation I can be sympathetic to those claims.

 

Hoevere a few points;

 

1. The level of advantage gained by the financila incompetance and downright stupity in spending on players and wages that was possibly criminally stupid, led to teh club achieving success that was way beyond the expectations of teh a club of Pompey's size - in effect this advantage was unsporting, unfair and is cheating.

 

2. The fans NEED to acknowledge this, they need to now show some humilty and agree that tehir success was based on nothing more thanfinancial mismanagement - for example, would saints have been relegated from th prem had we between 2003 (FA cup run) and 2005 racked up in excess of 100mil of debt on players and wages? I dont think so, we may even have qualified for Europe ona coupel more occasions - yet as soon as you can no longer manage the repayments it in effect becomes cheating - its why teh rules are there for all to see and why Granmt and fans should shut teh feck up about being hard done by and accept that this is the case, accept the punishment and get on with it... instead we have this hard luck story as if somehow Pompey dont deserve what happened to other clubs such as Leeds, Luton, Saints yet from the figures its seems like your club have been the worst possible example of all....

 

3. Hang your heads in shame at Wembley - partying and gloating win or lose is not something to celebrate considering the cheating that has got you there - players that have played in the run, that were bought whilst insolvent -there is no other word fo this.

 

4. Acknowledge that fans ignored the signs 12 months ago, when debts were reported at 40 mil + - Fans should have been protesting and been up in arms to show their concern for what was in effect apalling managment

 

5. Redknapp - the darling once again of teh media tripe today after 'his attacking courage' and vastly supier brain (in his own mind) took Spurs to the CL - jeez is there no end to teh slippery nature of this man as once again he professes to be blameless by having no involvement in the 'finance' - yet HE won teh cup for pompey with players you could not afford... acknowledge that.

 

Finally, have I been too harsh? Why am I saying this? Am i bitter and twisted? NO... I am just so angry that we have a football system in this country that is governed by greed, ignorance, stupity fuelled by a media obssessed only with the prem's 'value' as the 'best league in the world' which has fuelled the stupity of clubs within it... no lessons learned from Leeds, da nada, diddly squat, lapped up once again by the fans who claim ignorance when simple comon sense suggests that a club with pompeys revenue has no business buying players fro 10 mil plus and on 40-50k a week - unbelieveable.

 

The worst of this is that they still have not learnt, the prem that is... and they will eb glad when they can cast pompey back to the lower leagues and remove bad smell undermining the 'best league in the word' BS that Pompeys situation brings to their glutonous table.

 

Had Pompey been in the CCC or league below, they wouodl have been forgotton by now, ignored and blamed for their own mess... but because its the prem its all the owners fault, or the prems fit and proper failure.

 

Fans? No one likes to criticise their own club, or admit that they cheated and dont deserve tehior recent success because it was built on a foundations of sand - but if you want any sympathy at all from the Just footbal world, that humilty and acceptance is what its going to take...

 

You sound bitter and twisted. Its not the fans fault they are as powerless as we are. They have a proportion of fans who cant think, or can't think for themselves. Just like we do.

Blaming the fans for the debt would be the same as blaming the UK population for the banking crisis. Stupid!!

 

Harry Redknapp is proving it at Spurs and any idiot can see that.

 

I hate the prospect of Pompey surviving intact as much as the next man. How can they possibly be so much in debt?

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted

They're discussing this on their own forums, take this for example!

 

 

mr_bishiuk Posted on 06/05/2010 14:07

Debt now 138million

Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message

HMRC's claim went up because they refused to accept any further payments from us deliberately pushing up their share of the total debt so they had a bigger shout in the CVA

 

it's a game being played and the administrator IS ON THE CLUB'S SIDE

 

:smt043:smt043

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

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Posted

Damn right I'm bitter about the whole thing.

 

ANY football fan whose club lives within it's means SHOULD BE.

 

The ONLY JUSTICE that could be served is for that horrible organisation (I will not use the word Club, because they've betrayed their own fans) to be CLOSED DOWN.

 

NO SECOND (SORRY, THIS WILL BE THEIR THIRD) CHANCES.

 

 

CHEATS

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standy

standy

Posted
Posted

HMRC are playing the long game. That's why we have only just learned about the £17m fine for the unpaid tax bill. they would not have imposed that if the were going to just 'roll over' about this matter.

Suppose they accepted 20p in the £. How many of us would phone them up and ask them to reduce our tax bill. That's why they will never accept anything less than full payment.

The crucial vote comes in a week or so and we will see then if the CVA is accepted or not.

Should HMRC be on the losing side I would expect the matter to go back to court as HMRC are bound to challenge the validity of the enhanced debt. They will ask the court to refer to the SOA which was about half what AA is now claiming to be the debt.

Fear not The toast is under the grill. We will just have to wait a bit longer !

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
HMRC are playing the long game. That's why we have only just learned about the £17m fine for the unpaid tax bill. they would not have imposed that if the were going to just 'roll over' about this matter.

Suppose they accepted 20p in the £. How many of us would phone them up and ask them to reduce our tax bill. That's why they will never accept anything less than full payment.

The crucial vote comes in a week or so and we will see then if the CVA is accepted or not.

Should HMRC be on the losing side I would expect the matter to go back to court as HMRC are bound to challenge the validity of the enhanced debt. They will ask the court to refer to the SOA which was about half what AA is now claiming to be the debt.

Fear not The toast is under the grill. We will just have to wait a bit longer !

 

At last, someone who agrees with me. Two of us now;)

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

From UHY's report to creditors :

"Whilst it is accepted that liquidation may not necessarily result in the

Club ceasing to play football at Fratton Park, it will force the Club to play at a much lower level league."

 

"In the event that the Club is forced to fail under a liquidation scenario, the Players registrations will revert to FAPL or the FL and there will be no realisable value for the benefit of the creditors in this matter."

 

Presumable, even a voluntary liquidation will leave the 'phoenix' company with no ground, no players, and well down the pyramid.

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standy

standy

Posted
Posted
From UHY's report to creditors :

"Whilst it is accepted that liquidation may not necessarily result in the

Club ceasing to play football at Fratton Park, it will force the Club to play at a much lower level league."

 

"In the event that the Club is forced to fail under a liquidation scenario, the Players registrations will revert to FAPL or the FL and there will be no realisable value for the benefit of the creditors in this matter."

 

Presumable, even a voluntary liquidation will leave the 'phoenix' company with no ground, no players, and well down the pyramid.

 

The liquidator (probably AA) would be responsible for selling off the clubs assets. So Fratton Park would be sold and could be bought by the 'new club' for a cheap. knock down price. Bear in mind that Gaydamak owns the land around it and could use this to prevent development or possibly access.

The scenario has the hallmark of a property deal. Say 'Hello' to Tesco Fratton Park and housing for the pikey families.

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TopGun

TopGun

Posted
Posted
HMRC are playing the long game. That's why we have only just learned about the £17m fine for the unpaid tax bill. they would not have imposed that if the were going to just 'roll over' about this matter.

Suppose they accepted 20p in the £. How many of us would phone them up and ask them to reduce our tax bill. That's why they will never accept anything less than full payment.

The crucial vote comes in a week or so and we will see then if the CVA is accepted or not.

Should HMRC be on the losing side I would expect the matter to go back to court as HMRC are bound to challenge the validity of the enhanced debt. They will ask the court to refer to the SOA which was about half what AA is now claiming to be the debt.

Fear not The toast is under the grill. We will just have to wait a bit longer !

 

Good post.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)

They have survived (I think)...

 

CVA will be HMRC-backed compromise: 5yr deal that will run for 9 months as PCFC then transfer to the new company 4 remaining 4+ years old company will then be liquidated & assets/league membership transfered to the new company. Full investigation will take place of old company.

 

Creditors to get minimum 20p/£, team payroll cut to £10m p/a on projected revenues of £25m, Premier League advancing £2m to cover current shortfall.

 

Creditors committee will b HMRC, Ocadia (Gaydamak), PFA, Capstone (agents) & 2 local suppliers acting together. HMRC says it's owed £35m

 

Although I'm not 100% sure what all of it means, but it looks like they got off lightly.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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doubleonothing

doubleonothing

Posted
Posted

From Matt Slater (The BBC guy at the meeting)'s Twitter

 

That's not how I would normally choose 2 spend 5 hours of my life but Pompey meeting was more fun than I was expecting. Headlines 2 come

 

CVA will b HMRC-backed compromise: 5yr deal that will run 4 9 mnths as PCFC then transfer 2 new company 4 remaining 4+ yrs...

...old co will then b liquidated & assets/league membership transfered 2 new co. Full investigation will take place of old co.

creditors 2 get minimum 20p/£, team payroll cut 2 £10m pa on projected revs of £25m, Premier League advancing £ 2 cover current shortfall

 

SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT!!!!! PUT THEM IN THE CONFERENCE IF THEY ARE CHANGING COMPANIES!!!!!! (Or do an MK and make them move cities!)

 

OOO

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Alanh

Alanh

Posted
Posted

From Matt Smith on Twitter

 

CVA will be HMRC-backed compromise: 5yr deal that will run 4 9 months as PCFC then transfer 2 new company for remaining 4+ yrs...old co will then be liquidated & assets/league membership transfered 2 new co. Full investigation will take place of old co. Creditors 2 get minimum 20p/£, team payroll cut 2 £10m pa on projected revs of £25m, Premier League advancing £ 2 cover current shortfall.

 

Based on that, they aren't going to dissappear but will likely start next season on 0 points in CCC. Dissapointing outcome if it comes to pass.

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100%Red&White

100%Red&White

Posted
Posted
Greetings,

 

Have just been reading some of the posts on here and was wondering whether any of you might care to offer some words of comfort to distraught Pompey fans? I seem to detect a small amount of schadenfreude but am sure, deep down, you have some sympathy and your hearts go out to the fans? Surely? After all, they've done nothing wrong - just supported their team, as do you.

 

Anyway, good luck for next season - I'm sure had you reached the play-offs, you would have been promoted. Hopefully we can have some more local derbies in the near future.

 

You’ll have to jog my memory, I just can’t remember you (or any other of the blue-few) coming on here about a year ago offering support and sympathy when we were on the brink of winding-up? And all for going a few thousand overdrawn – nah, I only seem to remember gloating skates partying in the street over our demise. Strange.

 

So nothing to see here, move along please.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Solent has just reiterated that the current company WILL be liquidated, a new one formed which will commence in the Championship with no points penalties.

 

 

Why didn't Lowe and/or Begbies Traynor do this with SLH/SFC this time last year if this is a legitimate penalty avoiding tactic?

 

Even if they "get away" with this can't the Football League deny them membership of the Championship if they see fit?

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted
Damn - I'm good!

 

Ahem...one I posted earlier :

 

 

Let's get one thing straight. After the winding up order was published in the London Gazette, a court order was required to transfer assets from the club. It was not possible to change the status of members, ie shareholders, or creditors. Any such activity will be ruled invalid, ie unsecured. Even then, the debts have to be shown to be valid to the court, ie have a loan instrument that was agreed by Portsmouth City Football Club and the lender. I think that the court will quickly whittle down the supposed debts that the administrator is claiming.

 

What people also forget is that two can play at this game and HMRC have not even started with penalties and interest on the money they are owed. Since April 1st of this year, they can impose penalties of up to 100% of the VAT owed and if the company can't pay, ie is insolvent they can force the directors to pony up.

 

The fun will continue for a while and it continues to look more and more like that scene in "Bridge Over the River Kwai", when the train crashes into the river.

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Alanh

Alanh

Posted
Posted
Why didn't Lowe and/or Begbies Traynor do this with SLH/SFC this time last year if this is a legitimate penalty avoiding tactic?

 

Even if they "get away" with this can't the Football League deny them membership of the Championship if they see fit?

 

They haven't avoided the same points deduction penalty that we got, they just took it this season rather than have it carried over thanks to FAPL rules not having an admin deadline.

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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
Let's get one thing straight. After the winding up order was published in the London Gazette, a court order was required to transfer assets from the club. It was not possible to change the status of members, ie shareholders, or creditors. Any such activity will be ruled invalid, ie unsecured. Even then, the debts have to be shown to be valid to the court, ie have a loan instrument that was agreed by Portsmouth City Football Club and the lender. I think that the court will quickly whittle down the supposed debts that the administrator is claiming.

 

So I would presume that if the plan in to run PCFC for 9 mths then transfer the assets to a new company & liquidate - this will have to be run through the courts?

 

Is that the point that HMRC then question why the SOA figure (£78m?) has now risen to £138.6m?

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

And another thing to add into the magic box of disappearing money....

 

During the close season of 2009/10, PCFC sold players valued at something like 40 million, WHICH WAS USED TO REDUCE THEIR DEBT TO THE BANKS.

 

So, in the land of fairy tales (or should that be written submissions to Courts and Footballing Authorities), the club has actually managed to p*ss it's way through close to TWO HUNDRED MILLION POUNDS.

 

That's right, that is the figure that Liverpool were worth. Think about THAT when you see Skates on here expecting sympathy.

 

200 million POUNDS. And they entered the FAPL, the FA Cup etc with statements that they were Solvent.

 

About the ONLY thing that has been going on at Nottarf Krap during this season is Solvent Abuse.

 

Would explain why Grunt's ranting incomprehensibly if nothing else.

 

200 MILLION.

 

I rescind my earlier statement that Peter Storrie was Probably the Worst CEO in British Corporate history.

 

I think time will now show he was Probably the Worst CEO in GLOBAL Corporate History.

 

 

 

And still we get the it wasn't our fault cries.

 

Sorry, in a word ******

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Guided Missile

Guided Missile

Posted
Posted

A back of the fag packet calculation leaves me thinking that this is how it may pan out.

 

Chanrai's loan is deemed unsecured, thus total unsecured debt is £135M. HMRC is claiming £35M, which is 25.9% of the total. Is it possible that HMRC is going to say to the directors of PCFC that if the company can't pay them, then the directors (ie the gunrunners son) will have to and if they don't, they will vote against the CVA in 28 days time?

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
Don't think it matters whether you stab someone once or twenty times, it's still murder. My point is more to do with the fans. They are the only constant but have no say in the running of the club. It's obvious we're going to slide a long way down the ladder but none of it was my or any other fans doing - we simply turn up and support the team.

 

For some to wish it all out of existence does seem a little harsh.

 

The trouble is matey that many of your less salubrious counterparts wished all hell fire and damnation on us at this time last year, in fact they still wish it on us now!

 

Others are so arrogant in not wanting to see the truth in what this thread has pointed out to them.

 

So harsh in that you are all dragged into this? Yes, but from my perspective what goes around comes around.

 

And from the latest news emanating from the creditors meeting I reckon that they've got away with it. I do hope I'm wrong.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

I think our revenue in the last year or so in the CCC was about £10-11m.

 

So if we had been paying backa CVA like theirs, 20% of 20% (ie 20% over 5 years) of £130m, we would have been paying over half our annual revenue out each year on servicing it. Now I'm not sure exactly when/if the parachute payments are due, or how much but if they are outstripped by football debts for any significant period then PFC will be run on an absolute shoestring.

 

I can't see how their revenue, with parachute payments stripped out, will be bigger than ours was in the last year or so of the CCC.

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Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

Posted
Posted
lol their debt has gone up from £130 million this morning on the news, to £134m by the time Moyles finished his show, £138m for Fern Cottons show and now Greg James is on it's up to £140m! haha... by the end of tommorow it should be up to £200m with any luck!

 

It smells fishy to me. The bigger the debt gets (boosted by newly declared interests by Gaydamack / Chenrai etc.), the smaller the percentage that creditors like HMRC hold becomes.

 

The upshot of this is that HMRC will have less ability to block a CVA - hence, I suspect, why it passed.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
It smells fishy to me. The bigger the debt gets (boosted by newly declared interests by Gaydamack / Chenrai etc.), the smaller the percentage that creditors like HMRC hold becomes.

 

The upshot of this is that HMRC will have less ability to block a CVA - hence, I suspect, why it passed.

 

Er... according to others, the increase in the debt was down to HMRC, not the owners.

 

Secondly, I don't think it has passed yet. AA has been given a mandate to prepare it for formal submission to the body of creditors. A formal vote will be carried out at some future point.

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Saint_Ash

Saint_Ash

Posted
Posted

There's no way that poopy can get away with all this scot free, something will happen to them, also were the Football League in the meeting today agreeing to the fact that poopy won't get a points deduction next season if they become a new company? No, they can do as they please as they've always done. Also if poopy change companies I reckon they might get told to fook off to the conference.

 

The HMRC are looking out for themselves here and I agree with GM that they are after the full amount of money owed (now just under 35m) and if they don't get it then they will deny the CVA.

 

There's more to come yet I reckon.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted

I am hoping that HMRC are agreeing to let them propose a 20% CVA, only to then veto it because they (HMRC) are owed over 25% by value of the debt. Thus triggering AA's much stated liquidation?

 

They surely cannot roll over and let AA rub their tummies for 20p in the pound over 5 years?

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