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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella
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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
A question many people would like an answer to, although Vantis were only given a short amount of time to produce the SOA so i don't think the numbers were made up.

 

Can the HMRC refer this back to court given the new numbers?

 

IMO yes, it is a matter of court record now, it was a document requested by the court, and signed off by the clubs directors as a true statement of the clubs affairs.

Bobbyboy

Bobbyboy

Posted
Posted
Can HMRC levy a fine on their bill for PFC submitting an incorrect return and being late? If so the punishment on this is up to 100% of the amount outstanding so this could take their slice up from £17.1m to £34.2m, which puts a different perspective on their importance to the CVA.

 

Wow. According Matt Slater's twitter, this is exactly what's happened

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Can HMRC levy a fine on their bill for PFC submitting an incorrect return and being late? If so the punishment on this is up to 100% of the amount outstanding so this could take their slice up from £17.1m to £34.2m, which puts a different perspective on their importance to the CVA.

 

We need Clapham Saint or a tax expert.

 

My take on it (Pure guess work, so happy to be corrected)

 

If they owe 140 million of which 17 is secured to baloo and 30 owed to gaydamak, if both debts are due to loans, then nether would incur VAT or tax. There will of course be other debts that won't as well, but assumming that at least half of it does thats a minimum of 17.5% on 70 million quid, which is another 12 million that the tax man will lose out on unless, they can cliam it from pompey

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Wow. According Matt Slater's twitter, this is exactly what's happened

 

:)

 

Awesome!

 

Put that in your chuff Andronikou.

Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
Wow. According Matt Slater's twitter, this is exactly what's happened

 

Well if thats the case then HMRC will have well above 25% & Poopey can kiss their CVA goodbye!

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
BBC_MATT "Expect headlines 2moro about additional liability 2 Football League pension fund of £50m!"

 

Ouch !

 

Expect a couple of paragraphs on page 12 buried under a load of election crap you mean.

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)

so HMRC reveal their masterstroke. Pay us 100% or we double what you owe us.

 

Question. If a CVA is agreed at 20p in the pound, does that mean that HMRC by law must accept that agreement and take 20p in the pound or can they fight on till they get 100p in the pound?

Edited by Chez
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
so HMRC reveal their masterstroke. Pay us 100% or we double what you owe us.

 

Question. If a CVA is agreed at 20p in the pound, does that mean that HMRC by law must accept that agreement and take 20p in the pound or can they fight on till they get 100p in the pound?

 

If a CVA is validly passed then it is binding on all unsecured creditors, so they would have to give up the fight at that point.

Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
BBC_MATT "Expect headlines 2moro about additional liability 2 Football League pension fund of £50m!"

 

Ouch !

 

Actually this could be worrying. Right now, they are as good as fooked but an extra £50m could bring HMRC's block back under 25%.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Actually this could be worrying. Right now, they are as good as fooked but an extra £50m could bring HMRC's block back under 25%.

 

True, but then if it's a football related debt it would mean a new owner having to stump up the best part of £100m to be allowed to run it as a football club.

 

Either way, they're absolutely ruined.

FMPR

FMPR

Posted
Posted
I got a feeling that they're going to get away with it.

 

No chance, we wont have a club as no one is going to pay the money to own what we have

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Actually this could be worrying. Right now, they are as good as fooked but an extra £50m could bring HMRC's block back under 25%.

 

But an extra £50m of football debt would mean they would be ****ged anyway.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Actually this could be worrying. Right now, they are as good as fooked but an extra £50m could bring HMRC's block back under 25%.

 

It may count as football debt and thus all £50m have to be paid.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
If HMRC's debt is now £34million, and the total debt is £134million, thats HMRC holding 25.4%

 

Yes, but the total debt figure includes secured debt which is not relevant for the purposes of the CVA so they actually have a greater share in the CVA vote. Anyway, even 25.4% would be enough :)

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
If HMRC's debt is now £34million, and the total debt is £134million, thats HMRC holding 25.4%

 

isn't it 25% of unsecured debt that is the key, rather than total debt?

FMPR

FMPR

Posted
Posted
Take off the secured debt of £14m and it's 28%

 

Last post of the day, theres another £22m of secured debt so its actually 35%ish

bolo

bolo

Posted
Posted
isn't it 25% of unsecured debt that is the key, rather than total debt?

 

+ secured debt + football related items isn't it?

doubleonothing

doubleonothing

Posted
Posted
bbc_matt

 

Andronikou attacked Premier League's attitude 2 club & says it will apply 4 Europe. Wants Grant 2 stay on too. Player sales inevitable

 

How on earth can they think they are going to get into Europe. They have cheated!! They are not getting in!!

 

How they think that they are getting a raw deal from the Prem I do not know. What are they going to think when the FL get hold of them? Only difference is that it has happened before in the FL so there is precedence!

 

C'mon HMRC. Extinguish what little hope they have!!

 

OOO

Kingsbridge Saint

Kingsbridge Saint

Posted
Posted

HMRC have levied the 100% penalty they are legally allowed to do in circumstances like this. It's a masterstroke alright. They may well have done it deliberately to get over the 25% threshold so they can block the CVA to make an example of pompey to the rest of football. Or alternatively they are just maximising their return from the CVA. Hope it's the former. i think the 50M owed to the pension fund will be batted away - apparently Android wasn't fazed.

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
It may count as football debt and thus all £50m have to be paid.

So looking on the bright side;

1) We have potentially £34-35M owed to HMRC, which is over 25% so no CVA

or

2) we have another £50M of football debt that has to be paid in full, PLUS another £3.4M as 20% of the increase claimed by HMRC

 

:smt043

merrimd

merrimd

Posted
Posted
No chance, we wont have a club as no one is going to pay the money to own what we have

 

I'm not sure anyone is coming in to buy you anyway, hence the 5 year deal on the cva. If you get it agreed, parachute payments and player sales will pay the cva in full. I can see you getting away with just a few years with a cr@p squad but ultimately debt free.

Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
True, but then if it's a football related debt it would mean a new owner having to stump up the best part of £100m to be allowed to run it as a football club.

 

Either way, they're absolutely ruined.

 

You're quite right - thanks Benjii & others for putting my mind at ease.

 

They are indeed, as you say, ruined!!!! :smt043

tony13579

tony13579

Posted
Posted
Well if thats the case then HMRC will have well above 25% & Poopey can kiss their CVA goodbye!

 

check my sums??

(100 / 138.6) * 34.2 = 24.6753247

tax man 24.6% of cva?

badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
check my sums??

(100 / 138.6) * 34.2 = 24.6753247

tax man 24.6% of cva?

You need to take out Baloo's lump sum & transfer fees owed, so it's about £105M rather than £138.6M

bolo

bolo

Posted
Posted

34.2 / (138 - 14 (secured loans) - 22 (player sales + wages) =102) = 33.5% :) Put that in your pipe and smoke it....

Milkins

Milkins

Posted
Posted

Greetings,

 

Have just been reading some of the posts on here and was wondering whether any of you might care to offer some words of comfort to distraught Pompey fans? I seem to detect a small amount of schadenfreude but am sure, deep down, you have some sympathy and your hearts go out to the fans? Surely? After all, they've done nothing wrong - just supported their team, as do you.

 

Anyway, good luck for next season - I'm sure had you reached the play-offs, you would have been promoted. Hopefully we can have some more local derbies in the near future.

buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted

Thats a debt of £8,500 per fan, or only 22 years of season tickets. Its easy to see how they thought they could legitmately trade out of those kind of small cashflow issues. :confused:

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Greetings,

 

Have just been reading some of the posts on here and was wondering whether any of you might care to offer some words of comfort to distraught Pompey fans? I seem to detect a small amount of schadenfreude but am sure, deep down, you have some sympathy and your hearts go out to the fans? Surely? After all, they've done nothing wrong - just supported their team, as do you.

 

Anyway, good luck for next season - I'm sure had you reached the play-offs, you would have been promoted. Hopefully we can have some more local derbies in the near future.

 

Words of comfort... hmm....

 

you won't have to listen to that bell any more?

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