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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)

Putting it all together in one easy to digest post...

 

comical_andy.jpg?t=1272014033

 

Comical Andy - Minister of Pompey Information

 

"There is no crisis at Portsmouth FC. We do not have any debts of mass destruction. It is a conspiracy set up by HMRC and the Premier League. We have FIFA on our side. Peter Storrie will take this club forward to new heights."

 

- Comical Andy, April 2010

 

The 70 page creditors report outlining the £119 debt looks to be riddled with holes and inconsistencies.

 

http://www.uhy-uk.com/media/news/PFC%20-%20Report%20to%20creditors%20Adobe%207.pdf

 

I wonder how much more will come to light in the coming weeks?...

 

1) Peco AG are said to be owed £2m yet it seems they ceased to be in 1999. You can't have a debt with a non existent company.

 

http://www.moneyhouse.ch/u/peco_ag_CH-400.3.005.256-4.htm

 

2) Paul Hart is missing from the creditors list...

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1268155/Paul-Hart-considering-legal-action-Portsmouth-pay-off.html

 

3) A £560k fee is to an unauthorized and non FIFA list agent.

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2944274/Pompey-560k-Diarra-probe.html

 

4) Another agent on the list is owed £230,000 and has had an 18 month suspended sentence for for fraud.

 

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/586664-dubai-law-firm-owed-355000-by-portsmouth-fc

Edited by Matthew Le God
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merrimd

merrimd

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7620926/Portsmouth-suffer-Premier-League-parachute-payment-blow.html

 

Oops, PL won't give them the Parachute payment directly, it will be given to the players/football debts first.

 

Now THAT may make things VERY different for the circling vultures

 

What I dont understand is surely if a company is in administration, all income must go to the administrator, who will then distribute it as he sees fit (in a fair and equal measure perhaps). How can the PL be allowed to dictate which creditor gets repaid and how much? Surely all the unsecured creditors must be dealt with the same? Or am i being monumentally thick here.

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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What I dont understand is surely if a company is in administration, all income must go to the administrator, who will then distribute it as he sees fit (in a fair and equal measure perhaps). How can the PL be allowed to dictate which creditor gets repaid and how much? Surely all the unsecured creditors must be dealt with the same? Or am i being monumentally thick here.

 

I guess because it is their money and there is a clause in the Prem t's & c's which states " We reserve the right to retain your television money should you have outstanding football related debts " or something like that....

 

So they have exercised their right to hold this money back and distribute it to the other members. Effectively they are holding the money back so it never becomes P*rtsmouths in the first place.

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Joey-deacons-left-nut

Joey-deacons-left-nut

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I guess because it is their money and there is a clause in the Prem t's & c's which states " We reserve the right to retain your television money should you have outstanding football related debts " or something like that....

 

So they have exercised their right to hold this money back and distribute it to the other members. Effectively they are holding the money back so it never becomes P*rtsmouths in the first place.

 

Yup, the league hold pompeys golden share...so if pompey challenged them they'd just say "fine, have the cash, we're having your share... goodbye.."

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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A MANCHESTER kosher meat wholesaler is one of the trade creditors owed money by financially stricken Portsmouth FC.

 

Motti Gershon’s Middleton-based K&M Meats and King’s Kosher Meats are owed £1,724 by the relegated Premier League side.

 

Mr Gershon, who also owns Shefa Mehadrin, in Prestwich, supplied the club with kosher chicken and steaks for their Israeli defender Tal Ben-Haim and Israeli manager Avram Grant.

 

“I am not hopeful of getting my money,” Mr Gershon told the Jewish Telegraph.

 

The 70-page financial report to creditors was released this week and confirmed that the south-coast club have total debts of £119 million.

 

Mr Gershon also supplied Ben-Haim’s previous clubs Chelsea and Manchester City with kosher meat.

One reply on PompeyOnline made me laugh:

At least we've found one thing in our finances that is kosher.

:lol:

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trousers

trousers

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Well, it appears that some of the Pompey fans are trying to do something about the St Johns Ambulance debt...

 

http://www.justgiving.com/pompeyfans4stjohnsambulance

 

Fair play to them for doing this

 

Perhaps Markus should offer to pay off all Pompey's debts to local charities, schools etc? Would be good PR for the club as well as being a nice gesture being we're all 'Hampshire' at the end of the day.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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Perhaps Markus should offer to pay off all Pompey's debts to local charities, schools etc? Would be good PR for the club as well as being a nice gesture being we're all 'Hampshire' at the end of the day.

Presumably with the dual benefit that it then increases the percentage of unsecured debt owed to HMRC?

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trousers

trousers

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Presumably with the dual benefit that it then increases the percentage of unsecured debt owed to HMRC?

 

That didn't cross my mind in the slightest.....

 

(oh, yes it did Trousers.....you posted such a crafty idea only 2 days ago....)

 

;)

 

Quick, someone get on the blower to Saints HQ....a 'WIN WIN' if I ever saw one....

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benjii

benjii

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One thing that has surprised me is that they (to my knowledge) haven't borrowed any money secured against season ticket sales - usually that's the first security for football clubs when they need cash.

 

In AA's cash projection to the end of the season, ST sales were £0. In other words, like with us, they will not be selling any until this is resolved IMO. So no lender would take that risk on.

 

Further, given the existing security claims of Mr Chanrai, such a proposition might not be feasible anyway.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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Posted
In AA's cash projection to the end of the season, ST sales were £0. In other words, like with us, they will not be selling any until this is resolved IMO. So no lender would take that risk on.

 

Further, given the existing security claims of Mr Chanrai, such a proposition might not be feasible anyway.

I was thinking more along the lines of why they hadn't used it as security in the past rather than now - usually it's the first thing a club would use as security.

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saintjay77

saintjay77

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Posted
Well, it appears that some of the Pompey fans are trying to do something about the St Johns Ambulance debt...

 

http://www.justgiving.com/pompeyfans4stjohnsambulance

 

Fair play to them for doing this

 

Hats off to them for this,

 

Shows up the muppets that ran their club into the ground. Problem is that any money coming into the club to pay debts needs to go via the administrator to be paid to the creditors based on certain critiera so the chances of St Johns getting any of it is pretty small.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted (edited)
I was thinking more along the lines of why they hadn't used it as security in the past rather than now - usually it's the first thing a club would use as security.

 

Well, it's just a form of receivables finance. If existing lenders already have security (which Barclays and Standard Bank presumably did) they would have been able to regulate the possibility of doing it. The alternative is to take security over all cash deposits but again, the existing lenders would have prior security over this.

 

I think we effectively securitised our ST sales as receivables as part of the original stadium financing which was later refinanced. If we'd wanted to do a simlar thing again, we would have needed Aviva's (and possibly Barclay's) consent. I expect. Some guesswork involved!

Edited by benjii
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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

Posted
Posted
In AA's cash projection to the end of the season, ST sales were £0. In other words, like with us, they will not be selling any until this is resolved IMO. So no lender would take that risk on.

 

Further, given the existing security claims of Mr Chanrai, such a proposition might not be feasible anyway.

 

I thought clubs in administration were not allowed to sell season tickets? And to be honest, it would be not the best business decision if they did, as the cash would just get swallowed up in the debts and running costs...

 

... and without the parachute payments, the the lack of season ticket revenue, there will be next to no revenue stream for the next 12 months... it just wouldnt make sense.

 

If they do sell season tickets then I think this is because they are not even close to finding a buyer and need the money to run the club and intend on staying in administration for the season.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

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Hats off to them for this,

 

Shows up the muppets that ran their club into the ground. Problem is that any money coming into the club to pay debts needs to go via the administrator to be paid to the creditors based on certain critiera so the chances of St Johns getting any of it is pretty small.

Make it a 'donation' direct to St J's, who can then, purely by co-incidence, write off what little they are likely to get from PCFC.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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I thought clubs in administration were not allowed to sell season tickets? And to be honest, it would be not the best business decision if they did, as the cash would just get swallowed up in the debts and running costs...

 

... and without the parachute payments, the the lack of season ticket revenue, there will be next to no revenue stream for the next 12 months... it just wouldnt make sense.

 

If they do sell season tickets then I think this is because they are not even close to finding a buyer and need the money to run the club and intend on staying in administration for the season.

 

If I were a Pompey fan I wouldn't buy a season ticket until after an exit from administration or at least do it on a credit card so I could get the money back.

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Tractor_Saint

Tractor_Saint

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Posted
This is a document of complete and utter shame and sham.

 

Added to that, it's incomplete. There are names of creditors in there with no associated cost against them. Take 'Bishops Printers' as an example - not sure if they do it for Pompey but they print match day programmes for some other prem. league clubs so would assume they are probably owed quite a bit from Pompey - however the amount is blank on the sheet - and looking through there are a whole load more entries that have no monetary value against them. So £119M must be their BCD :D

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Added to that, it's incomplete. There are names of creditors in there with no associated cost against them. Take 'Bishops Printers' as an example - not sure if they do it for Pompey but they print match day programmes for some other prem. league clubs so would assume they are probably owed quite a bit from Pompey - however the amount is blank on the sheet - and looking through there are a whole load more entries that have no monetary value against them. So £119M must be their BCD :D

 

Bishops do (or certainly did until very recently) print their programme. I think I heard they owe them at least £40k.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Posted
Hats off to them for this,

 

Shows up the muppets that ran their club into the ground. Problem is that any money coming into the club to pay debts needs to go via the administrator to be paid to the creditors based on certain critiera so the chances of St Johns getting any of it is pretty small.

 

But it wont go near the club... just fans raisning money directly for the St Johns Amb. So in theory the fans can donante the £2707 or whatever, but unless teh St Johns then issue Pompey with a credit note against the invoice the debt will still stand... I susupect they would close the account though.

 

Hats off to those who are doing this and have donated... its shows class, rarher than those constantly looking for sympathy.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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The latest charity-based Pompey disgrace:

Before the start of the 2008/09 season Portsmouth Football Club agreed to donate £1 from every replica shirt sold (either from club shops or online) to the Tom Prince Cancer Trust. The club invited Clint and Adele Prince to a home game at the end last season to be presented on the pitch with a cheque for £4,500, this turned out to be a complete sham as they never received a penny.

 

In total, the club admit that they owe Tom's trust £12,000

 

The decision has been made to charge a £3.50 fee to every fan booking FA Cup final tickets, Ticketmaster get £3.00 and Tom's trust gets 50p. Don't get me wrong, I am really pleased that the trust is getting money that is rightfully their's but who is coughing up the money? Not the people who 'promised' it but us fans who were not even consulted.

 

I for one think the club are taking the XXXXXX, Clint and Adele have keep their dignity by not going to the papers about this even though they had a right to do so. So now we are seen as the people to pay the clubs outstanding depts. Yes, 50p isn't much and most fans will not even worry about it but the way it's been done stinks.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

my goodness, 490 pages in and they've managed to hit a new low.

We knew the club had raped local businesses and now we find out that they steal from terminally-ill children.

Surely this must be rock bottom?

 

Plucky old Pompey, the fairytale club with the greatest supporters in thw world.

Suddenly some of the few look classy compared with their club.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
Do you have a link to a news story about this?

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/FA-Cup-Final-Ticket-Information-856.aspx

 

This at least confirms the 50p per ticket garnishing.

 

This is the POL thread

http://fansonline.net/portsmouth/mb/view.php?id=262928

( I'm just off to disinfect my keyboard )

Edited by badgerx16
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saintjay77

saintjay77

Posted
Posted
But it wont go near the club... just fans raisning money directly for the St Johns Amb. So in theory the fans can donante the £2707 or whatever, but unless teh St Johns then issue Pompey with a credit note against the invoice the debt will still stand... I susupect they would close the account though.

 

Hats off to those who are doing this and have donated... its shows class, rarher than those constantly looking for sympathy.

 

Dont get me wrong as I think its a brilliant idea and I almost stuck in a couple of quid myself.

 

Im sure when we were in admin there was talk of Crouch or someone paying for something but the legalities of it meant that it couldnt happen. Something about a creditor being paid off ahead of other creditors that wasnt in the rules or something. Crap rule considering the bill they are trying to pay off is far more deserving that some player or dodgey agent.

 

If they just make a donation that would cover the bill and St Johns just walk away from there debt you can bet some crook will make a fuss about whats owed to them and demand that a pompy bill has been paid in full so they deserve the same.

 

Actually there is a school that's owed money too so surly they should be deserving too?

 

The system is rubbish and its things like this that make it worse. How rich clubs, players and agents deserve there money before the likes of St John's and Schools is beyond me.

 

I hope the just ask page is allowed to pay that bill and good luck the the true fans that are putting forward there own money for it.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
This is interesting Wes... if you look on the HMRC web site and read up on PAYE' date=' its always teh Employee (player) that is ultimately responsible for ensuring they have paid the correct amount of tax - eg even if teh employer deducts and pays some to HMRC you are still liable for the rest... Now I am not sure about the legals in this case as in effect the players have paid their tax as it was deducted at source by teh club in the normal PAYE way, but this was not paid to HMRC which is surely fraud? Why? Because the players wage slips will staete the deduction as Income TAX, yet this is in fact not the case... what is teh legal situation on this, any lawyers out their care to comment?[/quote']

 

Shame that somebody with legal expertise has not responded to this.

 

We're both laymen, but have an instinctive feeling that there is a distinct possibility that either the club retaining those PAYE monies having deducted them from the players salaries is fraudulent, or else it is a debt owed to the players by the club. As such, it constitutes a footballing debt and should be classified as a secured debt. That would be paid out of the parachute payments to the players, who would have to pay it to HMRC.

 

Any other opinions or knowledge out there that might clarify this?

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Clapham Saint

Clapham Saint

Posted
Posted
Shame that somebody with legal expertise has not responded to this.

 

We're both laymen, but have an instinctive feeling that there is a distinct possibility that either the club retaining those PAYE monies having deducted them from the players salaries is fraudulent, or else it is a debt owed to the players by the club. As such, it constitutes a footballing debt and should be classified as a secured debt. That would be paid out of the parachute payments to the players, who would have to pay it to HMRC.

 

Any other opinions or knowledge out there that might clarify this?

 

If the amount was deducted from the employee's pay then the employee has paid.

 

If the employer hasn't paid it over then the employer owes HMRC.

 

 

HTH

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Christ Avram Grant is boring. "Everything should be decided on the pitch". Shut up you cvnt, you lot broke the rules.

 

Indeed. If he wants "everything to be decided on the pitch" then don't play those players that arrived via boardroom 'misappropriation'.

 

You can't have it both ways Mr Grant (so to speak)

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Panda

Panda

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Posted
Shame that somebody with legal expertise has not responded to this.

 

We're both laymen, but have an instinctive feeling that there is a distinct possibility that either the club retaining those PAYE monies having deducted them from the players salaries is fraudulent, or else it is a debt owed to the players by the club. As such, it constitutes a footballing debt and should be classified as a secured debt. That would be paid out of the parachute payments to the players, who would have to pay it to HMRC.

 

Any other opinions or knowledge out there that might clarify this?

 

I am a layman too but two things are, I think, established:

 

1. There is no LEGAL definition of a football debt

2. Football debts are not secured

 

The PL and FL have defined a rule that says unless 'football debts' are paid then you cannot play as we will withdraw your 'Golden Share'. The PL and FL have defined 'footballs debts' and have chosen to exclude unpaid PAYE and NHI on players salaries.

 

The PL and FL would have to change their rule to include this before they could insist on the unpaid tax and insurance being cleared.

 

Should they do this - YES

Have they done this - NO

Will they do this - UNLIKELY

 

I don't think there is any mileage in this at all and is best left to HMRC to sort out!

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Viking Warrior

Viking Warrior

Posted
Posted

I know its a stupid idea but just supposing we purchased all the skates 25k allocation of wembley final tickets turned up in our red and white regalia etc and sang saints songs all the way through the match . Their players would probaly run of the pitch or play very well knowing that there we were world class fans in the stadium. and not the usual knobheads who support them.

 

Its only a thought but I will get my coat

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