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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Anybody else notice this?

 

"The unsecured creditors list includes £38m owed to the club's former owners - £30m of which is owed to investment companies for former owner Sacha Gaydamak and his father Arcadi" quoted on the portsmouth evenkng news site.

 

I thought the FA or the premiership had supposedly checked that Arcadi had no invovement with the club -- Sacha has somehow miraculously got all that money by himself.

 

So in fact a convicted, 'unfit', person did pay for the club?

 

K.

doesnt he also own another football club , and that is against all the rules?
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Anyone else think the fact that Spurs advanced Pompey the million re the Begovic deal to 'help them with cashflow' links in nicely with the theory that they threw the cup semi final to 'help them with cashflow'. The hand of Redknapp at work again?

 

My opinion depends on how many lawyers are reading this.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
So pompey ripped off of schools, charities, small local businesses and St John's Ambulance so they could recruit players in January to knock us out the cup. Nice.

 

Those cheating ****ers will get what they deserve.

 

that's the thing that does my head in. They actually paid a loan fee of £500,000 for Quincy and another £250,000 for O'Hara in January (never mind the wages for those two and Tosic and Rocha) when they must have had creditors begging for their money by then.

 

 

Another thing I find strange is the amount of support/backing offered in the last few months by Gerald Vernon-Jackson, the leader of Portsmouth city council despite the fact PFC had during that period failed to pay their council tax.

Edited by Chez
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camdijk

camdijk

Posted
Posted
article.1112110815.jpg

 

New film just been released could do with a bit of a title change.

 

I just spoke to someone at HMRC over £116 I owe them. At the end of the very polite conversation I asked what they were going to do about Pompey and their $18million owed and was told 'you'll read bout it in the papers soon'. Sounds good....

 

Would it be worth waiting to see how much in the £ HMRC are getting from Poopy and then negotiating the same terms for your £116 debt? (just a thought) :-)

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Nick65

Nick65

Posted
Posted

Does anyone know how long a club is allowed to be in administration without incurring further penalties? Would the FL let Portsmouth in if they're still in admin?

 

The 'footballing debt' (including agents fees) is about £32 million. As this is unsecured, I assume a prospective owner wouldn't be obliged to pay all of it. If the CVA offer is 25%, that means paying 8 instead of 32 million, but with the inevitable points deduction. I can't see anyone paying an extra £24 million just to avoid losing a few points.

 

Seems like, even if they get bought (a big if ...), the best they can hope for is a -15 start and no money. Shame .....

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

I believe that if they don't pay the football debt they don't start next season....?

 

And AA commented under his breath yesterday that he doesn't recognise the football creditor ruling, if he sticks to that then they will be looking for a new type of business to be involved in come August.

 

He has got himself into a bit of a pickle!

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Saints foreva

Saints foreva

Posted
Posted
Does anyone know how long a club is allowed to be in administration without incurring further penalties? Would the FL let Portsmouth in if they're still in admin?

 

The 'footballing debt' (including agents fees) is about £32 million. As this is unsecured, I assume a prospective owner wouldn't be obliged to pay all of it. If the CVA offer is 25%, that means paying 8 instead of 32 million, but with the inevitable points deduction. I can't see anyone paying an extra £24 million just to avoid losing a few points.

 

Seems like, even if they get bought (a big if ...), the best they can hope for is a -15 start and no money. Shame .....

 

I am certain that all the football related debt has to be paid in full...

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted
I just wish more people on this board kept up with the goings on at Pompey like you did. On the ball? I think this demonstrates how spot on Pompey fans like you were:

 

 

 

Clueless doesn't come close to describing you.

 

....set aaaaannnnd match to GM

 

Deluded, corpulent whore, doesn't even begin to describe your feeble offerings:rolleyes:

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted
Does anyone know how long a club is allowed to be in administration without incurring further penalties? Would the FL let Portsmouth in if they're still in admin?

 

The 'footballing debt' (including agents fees) is about £32 million. As this is unsecured, I assume a prospective owner wouldn't be obliged to pay all of it. If the CVA offer is 25%, that means paying 8 instead of 32 million, but with the inevitable points deduction. I can't see anyone paying an extra £24 million just to avoid losing a few points.

 

Seems like, even if they get bought (a big if ...), the best they can hope for is a -15 start and no money. Shame .....

 

Surely if the football debts get to a certain size then Chanrai would be better off liquidating the company, because then I assume he, as a secured creditor would be first in line and the football people can join the scrum with all the other unsecured.

 

I expect much depends on the size of the parachute money, that is by far their greatest asset and they need to keep running as a football club to get it. Ifit's 50mill then it should easily cover the football debt and make it worthwhile for Chanrai to buy the club back.

 

It's certainly not worth anyone other than Chanrai buying the club.

 

There's also the Gaydamak issue. Someone said on here that at this meeting it will be accept Chanrai's CVA or bust, Gaydamak can block a CVA so if he wants to liquidate PFC he could do.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7619042/Portsmouth-told-they-will-not-be-able-to-play-in-Europa-League.html

 

The full EPL/FA quote re not playing in Europe....

 

Seems they have (finally) noted their financial situation..

 

Meanwhile, the accounts are a mess. The club is a mess. Corporate Compliance - absolutely non-existant for years. Storrie teller is now shown to have been "Probably the worst CEO in British Corporate History" (Copyright = D_P)

 

May every Skate that sang his name be hurt by what has and will now go on. For the wiser ones, shame lads but hey you still watched them spend 108+% of their income out there on the pitch.

 

Just take one thing forward in your (miserable for some) lives - If something seems to good to be true, it always is.

 

(Oh and in case I didn't mention it "Never Trust an Arab" - Chris Ryan)

 

Meanwhile meanwhile

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
There is a good article in the pitchinvation.net about Pompey, sorry i cant do a link, its under the heading of this. The Sweeper: Portsmouth and the Premier League’s Disgrace

 

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/04/22/the-sweeper-portsmouth-and-the-premier-leagues-disgrace/

 

Pompey fan response to that article:

 

Please remember that it is not Portsmouth FC (the club) nor fans that have been ‘cheating’ or being incompetant. There is a whole hidden story here about the previous owners of the business – including the current owner who is not a saviour but is all part of the same gang – that needs to be told (but is being shamefully swept under the carpet as it is easier for people to scream about the club ‘living beyond their means’ and so on).

 

Ask yourself where all the money that has been received over the last year or so has actually went. The fans were being told it was used to pay off debts when it has obviously not been used to benefit the creditors nor the club itself.

Ask yourself why the accounts show massive yearly losses when the normal operating costs are just about covered each year by the revenue received and a player sale.

 

Ask yourself if Pompey, prior to 2009, was working on a business model any different to that of Fulham, Liverpool, Man City or Chelsea.

 

As fans, we know that the club has been torn apart and its heart ripped out by people cleared by the Premier League as being Fit and Proper. The current team and management (and us fans) should not be sullied by the actions of convicted criminals working for known asset-strippers and gangsters.

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
Does anyone know how long a club is allowed to be in administration without incurring further penalties? Would the FL let Portsmouth in if they're still in admin?

 

The 'footballing debt' (including agents fees) is about £32 million. As this is unsecured, I assume a prospective owner wouldn't be obliged to pay all of it. If the CVA offer is 25%, that means paying 8 instead of 32 million, but with the inevitable points deduction. I can't see anyone paying an extra £24 million just to avoid losing a few points.

 

Seems like, even if they get bought (a big if ...), the best they can hope for is a -15 start and no money. Shame .....

 

One season, so if the skates decide AA is doing such a good job, he can only last a year with the club in admin.

 

The footballing debt is tied into the golden share, so a buyer could save on £24m but most likely find he owns a Blue Square club (with matching facilities).

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Nick65

Nick65

Posted
Posted
Surely if the football debts get to a certain size then Chanrai would be better off liquidating the company

 

Can he do that? - I thought that was up to the administrator.

 

I've just noticed that the CVA offer is rumoured to be 20%-25% over 3 to 5 years - what an insult.

That could amount to an offer of 4% per annum for 5 years (assuming they last that long without going into admin again).

At best that would be (taking the florist owed £995 as an example), £85 this year, £85 next year, £85 the year after and that's your lot.

 

If I was a creditor, I'd be tempted to say "screw that, I'll vote 'no' and take my chances".

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Channon's Sideburns

Channon's Sideburns

Posted
Posted
Can he do that? - I thought that was up to the administrator.

 

I've just noticed that the CVA offer is rumoured to be 20%-25% over 3 to 5 years - what an insult.

That could amount to an offer of 4% per annum for 5 years (assuming they last that long without going into admin again).

At best that would be (taking the florist owed £995 as an example), £85 this year, £85 next year, £85 the year after and that's your lot.

 

If I was a creditor, I'd be tempted to say "screw that, I'll vote 'no' and take my chances".

 

Chances are that Android knows this....'oh what a surprise'

 

End result - liquidation with Mr Chinnery getting all/some of his money back.

 

Wonder what the odds of Pompey STARTING next season are?

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MorningtonCrescent

MorningtonCrescent

Posted
Posted
Well if you increase the value of an asset it decreases the net debt. Why he would do that I cannot say.

 

He has "inflated" the value of the asset in the "CVA" option column, to show that as the most desirable outcome for the creditors. It is a common method of "book cooking" to give people, with a decision to be made, a "steer" into the preferred outcome.

 

If anybody in the country now believes "Admin Andy" to be wholly independent and conducting the administration for the benefit of the creditors, then I would be astounded.

 

He is clearly in someone's pocket and is attempting to find a way for one of the current "secured debtors" to step in and "save" the club from oblivion. They will seek to strike a deal with the football debtors to pay the "100% monies" over a 1-2 year period, using TV/Parachute money.... then they will pay as little as 1p/2p in the £ to the others over 5 years and walk away with the balance of the first few installments of the money coming in (TV, parachute, ST's etc)....

 

The fans will accept that all the players are sold to "keep the books balanced" and the only playing staff they will have for the foreseeable will be sub-23 year olds on basic football wages.

 

They may well start 2010/11 on -15 points for "financial irregularities", but that won't phase the "new" owner as they're not in it for the football anyway. They will quietly walk away with any spare cash they can get their hands on in the first 12-18 months and then leave the whole place high and dry.

 

A slow and painful fall from grace, followed by a lingering death as they drop out of the league.

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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/04/22/the-sweeper-portsmouth-and-the-premier-leagues-disgrace/

 

The Times features outraged fans:

 

“What is it that we have been ‘supporting’ in the last months and years?” one fan asked on a local newspaper message board. “From the big stuff, the millions sloshing around like bilge water in a [sinking] ship, to the pathetic non-payment to the Boy Scouts [£697], I am coming to the conclusion that this is not a business which we can want to have anything to do with.

 

“After the Cup Final, I am not sure anyone who supports Pompey can ‘support’ this business or any of the events it organises. This is not Pompey any more.”

 

Good to see that the moral standing of Pompey fans is going to wait until they've enjoyed their day out at the Cup Final before complaining about the cheating way they got there!! Priceless.

 

As for Gaz's response

 

Please remember that it is not Portsmouth FC (the club) nor fans that have been ‘cheating’ or being incompetant.

 

As fans, we know that the club has been torn apart and its heart ripped out by people cleared by the Premier League as being Fit and Proper. The current team and management (and us fans) should not be sullied by the actions of convicted criminals working for known asset-strippers and gangsters.

 

Of course, Peter Storrie-teller would have been at the heart of this being CEO under ALL of the owners involved, and Pompey fans were more than happy to chant his name.

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Saint 76er

Saint 76er

Posted
Posted
surely it is time for another thread title change by now as it is not really a take over saga but more of a soap opera.

 

I favour "Up Pompeii" personally, with apologies to Frankie Howard, but then it is a FARCE after all.

 

Now the whole world agrees they've been trading insolvently, then surely that is illegal and the law requires they be wound up?

 

If they try to claim solvency, then since creditors not being paid, surely the authorities need to find out who was appropriating the income as those actions may not have been strictly legal?

 

In the case of the Aussie rugby club hammered by their authorities, much was made of the club running two sets of books. Obviously only one of which was for official consumption. The books shown to Vantis and the ones now being accessed by AA appear to differ widely, as it happens...

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

I pondered this bit in David Conn's Guardian article:-

 

HMRC's £17.1m is the largest debt; the tax authorities are particularly bitter about the football creditors' rule because theirs is largely unpaid PAYE tax due on the millionaire players' wages which have to be paid in full.

So it seems that the PAYE tax was deducted from the player's wages, but not paid on to HMRC.

Now I might be a little simple about this, but could the HMRC not take the position that as they have not received that money, that is still owed to them by the players? If they were able to adopt that position, then the PAYE would become monies owed to the players by the club and as such would be a football debt which would have to be settled if the Skates were to be able to continue playing football.

As the law has been changed so that the HMRC is no longer in the position of a secured creditor, perhaps the Courts might accept this premise as a way of redressing the balance and avoiding the situation unfolding before our eyes, whereby an unscrupulous administator like the Android deliberately inflates the debt to lessen the chances of an unsecured creditor blocking the CVA

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
I pondered this bit in David Conn's Guardian article:-

 

 

So it seems that the PAYE tax was deducted from the player's wages, but not paid on to HMRC.

Now I might be a little simple about this, but could the HMRC not take the position that as they have not received that money, that is still owed to them by the players? If they were able to adopt that position, then the PAYE would become monies owed to the players by the club and as such would be a football debt which would have to be settled if the Skates were to be able to continue playing football.

As the law has been changed so that the HMRC is no longer in the position of a secured creditor, perhaps the Courts might accept this premise as a way of redressing the balance and avoiding the situation unfolding before our eyes, whereby an unscrupulous administator like the Android deliberately inflates the debt to lessen the chances of an unsecured creditor blocking the CVA

 

I was thinking a similar thing and maybe the football authorities should be looking to include players PAYE and VAT on tickets and transfer dealings, in the footballing debt, which would mean for at least that part of the tax liability the club would be obliged to pay 100%.

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

AA is now defiantly telling the few that he will fight the European ban!

It's him and the prossie-botherer on the battlements of Fortress Fratton, valiantly fighting for justice for plucky Pompey.....mmmmm.

 

 

The authorities have said quite specifically that they 'won't consider an application'.

AA says they have not been banned because they haven't even asked - he says they are still putting an application together - the type of application they have told him they won't even look at.

 

He must be a bit simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Or paid by the hour, filling his days with pointless tasks as the meter ticks along at an astonishing rate.

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teamsaint

teamsaint

Posted
Posted
He has "inflated" the value of the asset in the "CVA" option column, to show that as the most desirable outcome for the creditors. It is a common method of "book cooking" to give people, with a decision to be made, a "steer" into the preferred outcome.

 

If anybody in the country now believes "Admin Andy" to be wholly independent and conducting the administration for the benefit of the creditors, then I would be astounded.

 

He is clearly in someone's pocket and is attempting to find a way for one of the current "secured debtors" to step in and "save" the club from oblivion. They will seek to strike a deal with the football debtors to pay the "100% monies" over a 1-2 year period, using TV/Parachute money.... then they will pay as little as 1p/2p in the £ to the others over 5 years and walk away with the balance of the first few installments of the money coming in (TV, parachute, ST's etc)....

 

The fans will accept that all the players are sold to "keep the books balanced" and the only playing staff they will have for the foreseeable will be sub-23 year olds on basic football wages.

 

They may well start 2010/11 on -15 points for "financial irregularities", but that won't phase the "new" owner as they're not in it for the football anyway. They will quietly walk away with any spare cash they can get their hands on in the first 12-18 months and then leave the whole place high and dry.

 

A slow and painful fall from grace, followed by a lingering death as they drop out of the league.

 

Reckon this pretty much the plan.

 

However, if the offer to creditors really is a few pence in the pound, most will surely take their chance in liquidation- if they can raise the 25% to black the CVA.

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
AA is now defiantly telling the few that he will fight the European ban!

It's him and the prossie-botherer on the battlements of Fortress Fratton, valiantly fighting for justice for plucky Pompey.....mmmmm.

 

 

The authorities have said quite specifically that they 'won't consider an application'.

AA says they have not been banned because they haven't even asked - he says they are still putting an application together - the type of application they have told him they won't even look at.

 

He must be a bit simple.

 

 

Or paid by the hour, filling his days with pointless tasks as the meter ticks along at an astonishing rate.

 

 

He is one desperate man TBH. Saying anything that will put him in the good books of the very simple, autograph hunting, blue fewer and fewer!

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Psycrow

Psycrow

Posted
Posted

If the amount of creditors has been inflated (as it seems from various listed creditors claiming they are no longer owed money) doesn't that mean that HMRC's percentage of the unsecured debt is most likely higher that 25%?

 

Rather than simply listing all creditors that the club MAY owe money to based on invoices found, maybe the idea was to use that as an excuse to bump up the amount of money owed in order to push HMRC under the magic 25% number.

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
If the amount of creditors has been inflated (as it seems from various listed creditors claiming they are no longer owed money) doesn't that mean that HMRC's percentage of the unsecured debt is most likely higher that 25%?

 

Rather than simply listing all creditors that the club MAY owe money to based on invoices found, maybe the idea was to use that as an excuse to bump up the amount of money owed in order to push HMRC under the magic 25% number.

 

Yes but if those creditors don't exist they can't vote (either way). Firms paid in full won't attend a creditors meeting and those overestimated will only get a vote on the actual percentage they are owed.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
I was thinking a similar thing and maybe the football authorities should be looking to include players PAYE and VAT on tickets and transfer dealings, in the footballing debt, which would mean for at least that part of the tax liability the club would be obliged to pay 100%.

 

I'm not sure of the legalities of a situation like this. If it were simply a case that Peter owed Paul some money and gave it to John to give to Paul, then the situation would clearly be that Peter had not discharged the debt to Paul if John failed to pass it on. The situation would not have altered one jot if John went bankrupt during the process.

 

Of course it is different with company law, where the employer deducts the PAYE from the wages and is supposed to pay it to the HMRC, but to me it still smacks of something illegal when the Skates actually had deducted that money and failed to pass it on.

 

If you paid your money to the travel agency for the holiday you booked and they just kept it, effectively you would not have paid for the holiday and could not travel (unless ABTA baled you out) and surely it would be a criminal offence, theft.

 

Sometimes the law is an ass and with luck the law allowing footballing debts to millionaire players to take precedence over those owed to the Taxman and small businesses will be reversed. If that reversal comes about because of the immoral and unethical issues connected to our dear friends along the road, then some good will come from this sordid episode (apart from the entertainment value that we have enjoyed at their downfall).

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
AA is now defiantly telling the few that he will fight the European ban!

It's him and the prossie-botherer on the battlements of Fortress Fratton, valiantly fighting for justice for plucky Pompey.....mmmmm.

 

 

The authorities have said quite specifically that they 'won't consider an application'.

AA says they have not been banned because they haven't even asked - he says they are still putting an application together - the type of application they have told him they won't even look at.

 

He must be a bit simple.

 

 

 

 

 

Or paid by the hour, filling his days with pointless tasks as the meter ticks along at an astonishing rate.

 

Administrator insists fight to play in Europe goes on

 

 

 

 

 

Published Date: 22 April 2010

Pompey's administrator today said the club would fight on for the right to play in Europe.

Andrew Andronikou spoke out after the FA and Premier League said in a joint statement earlier today that they would not consider any late applications for a UEFA licence.

 

And he insisted: 'We've earned the right to play in Europe'.

 

Mr Andronikou said the club was still working on its application and had not had any communication from the authorities to suggest the bid would be turned down.

 

'I find the comments unusual considering our application has not gone in yet,' he said.

 

'We are still in the process of complying and providing all the information required for us to apply to them.

 

;I've not spoken to anybody regarding this. We put in a preliminary application and they came back and said "just make an application". Our lawyers are handling the application.

 

'They (the FA and Premier League) have asked us for strict criteria and we are still looking into that.

 

'We've earned the right to play in Europe so we will make the application, albeit belated.'

 

Mr Andronikou said the application would be with the FA and Premier League by next week.

 

Asked why he thought the comments had been made to suggest Pompey's application was already doomed, he said: 'I would ask you to draw your own conclusions about where it's coming from. Obviously there is some pressure being put on the board of the Premier League by one or two of its members.'

 

Portsmouth would have qualified to play in the Europa League next season after reaching the FA Cup final against Chelsea - who will be in the Champions League.

 

A joint statement from the FA and Premier League said: 'The FA and Premier League have confirmed to the administrators of Portsmouth Football Club that they shall not consider any late application for granting of a UEFA Club Licence for the 2010-11 season.'

 

The decision means that the team who finish seventh in the Premier League - currently Liverpool - would play in the Europa League instead.

 

 

Some of the replies from the blue phew, defy belief!

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
Administrator insists fight to play in Europe goes on

 

 

 

 

 

Published Date: 22 April 2010

Pompey's administrator today said the club would fight on for the right to play in Europe.

Andrew Andronikou spoke out after the FA and Premier League said in a joint statement earlier today that they would not consider any late applications for a UEFA licence.

 

And he insisted: 'We've earned the right to play in Europe'.

 

Mr Andronikou said the club was still working on its application and had not had any communication from the authorities to suggest the bid would be turned down.

 

'I find the comments unusual considering our application has not gone in yet,' he said.

 

'We are still in the process of complying and providing all the information required for us to apply to them.

 

;I've not spoken to anybody regarding this. We put in a preliminary application and they came back and said "just make an application". Our lawyers are handling the application.

 

'They (the FA and Premier League) have asked us for strict criteria and we are still looking into that.

 

'We've earned the right to play in Europe so we will make the application, albeit belated.'

 

Mr Andronikou said the application would be with the FA and Premier League by next week.

 

Asked why he thought the comments had been made to suggest Pompey's application was already doomed, he said: 'I would ask you to draw your own conclusions about where it's coming from. Obviously there is some pressure being put on the board of the Premier League by one or two of its members.'

 

Portsmouth would have qualified to play in the Europa League next season after reaching the FA Cup final against Chelsea - who will be in the Champions League.

 

A joint statement from the FA and Premier League said: 'The FA and Premier League have confirmed to the administrators of Portsmouth Football Club that they shall not consider any late application for granting of a UEFA Club Licence for the 2010-11 season.'

 

The decision means that the team who finish seventh in the Premier League - currently Liverpool - would play in the Europa League instead.

 

 

Some of the replies from the blue phew, defy belief!

 

There is a difference between admirable persistence and insulting idiocy. I wonder if Android understands this.

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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted

This Andronikou is getting more and more like the Iraqi Information Minister every day.

 

It explains why fools like Corp Ho are so deluded, listening to that nonsense every day only to come on here and get their bubble burst.

 

How can there be any surprise that they are not going to be let into Europe. Their appeal for not meeting the deadline to prove they are solvent, was based on the fact that they are not solvent!

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