Pompey Takeover Saga

[Gemmel]

Debts now £119 million

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/espn/sport/story/18414.html

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Po...eal.6239564.jp

 

Very different from the intial £60 million reported. Twice as much in fact. Or the £78 million Mr Andronikou said it would "bottom out" at. Also a lot more than the independent forensic accountants report by Vantis. Where are these previously unknown debts coming from? Why weren't they known about before when the independent Vantis accountants team were looking through the books?

 

Seems Mr Andronikou is up to his old tricks of making the debt bigger so he wins the CVA. Something he has been accused of in the past.

 

Unbelivable

[South City Si]

Unbeleiveable! I can not get to grips the lengths they are getting away with this.

Southen have only not been wound-up becasue they actually managed to pay-off their tax-bill.

Pompey on the otherhand have not and have much further mounts of debt on top.

 

Android is blatantly not doing his job properly, i.e. reducing costs, getting the best for the creditors, etc instead he is employing more staff????

[OldNick]

Debts now £119 million

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/espn/sport/story/18414.html

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Po...eal.6239564.jp

 

Very different from the intial £60 million reported. Twice as much in fact. Or the £78 million Mr Andronikou said it would "bottom out" at. Also a lot more than the independent forensic accountants report by Vantis. Where are these previously unknown debts coming from? Why weren't they known about before when the independent Vantis accountants team were looking through the books?

 

Seems Mr Andronikou is up to his old tricks of making the debt bigger so he wins the CVA. Something he has been accused of in the past when the administrator of other companies.

 

£90 million owed to unsecured creditors - of which £38 million is due to three previous owners in the form of loans , how convieninet that it puts the HMRC out of blocking the CVA. Highly contensious indeed.

Vantis are amazingly quiet

Can 1 of the more informed tell me, can the revenue take this back to the High court, as the court was not given the full evidence when the registrar did not wind them up.

Owing still on players to money lenders, it gets more and more murkier.

It is frustrating

[Gingeletiss]

£90 million owed to unsecured creditors - of which £38 million is due to three previous owners in the form of loans , how convieninet that it puts the HMRC out of blocking the CVA. Highly contensious indeed.

Vantis are amazingly quiet

Can 1 of the more informed tell me, can the revenue take this back to the High court, as the court was not given the full evidence when the registrar did not wind them up.

Owing still on players to money lenders, it gets more and more murkier.

It is frustrating

 

 

Yes.

[Weston Saint]

£90 million owed to unsecured creditors - of which £38 million is due to three previous owners in the form of loans , how convieninet that it puts the HMRC out of blocking the CVA. Highly contensious indeed.

Vantis are amazingly quiet

Can 1 of the more informed tell me, can the revenue take this back to the High court, as the court was not given the full evidence when the registrar did not wind them up.

Owing still on players to money lenders, it gets more and more murkier.

It is frustrating

No Nick, HMRC agreed the Administration. They cannot go back on that. What they might do is challenge Chainria's position as a secure creditor and he will have to join the long list of unsecure creditors or they might re raise the issue of whether he is a creditor at all, something they hinted at the last court hearing. They might also be able to challenge the accounts and identify the real debt

[OldNick]

Yes.

i firmly bleieve if this info had been made public initially then the registrar wuld have had no option but kill thme off on the day. Now she has been seen not to do her duty to all the suppliers and the HMRC, I think that Pompey will get away with it. if the CVA ruse does work they definately have got away with it big time.

[badgerx16]

Am I correct in thinking that agents are classed as football creditors, so with the outstanding transfers thats at least £23M that has to be paid in full before they can play in the CCC.

 

CHEATS !!!

[Crab Lungs]

Am I correct in thinking that agents are classed as football creditors, so with the outstanding transfers thats at least £23M that has to be paid in full before they can play in the CCC.

 

Knowing that bunch of sh1ts they will get all four years worth of parachute money in one lump.

[OldNick]

No Nick, HMRC agreed the Administration. They cannot go back on that. What they might do is challenge Chainria's position as a secure creditor and he will have to join the long list of unsecure creditors or they might re raise the issue of whether he is a creditor at all, something they hinted at the last court hearing. They might also be able to challenge the accounts and identify the real debt

WS it seems to me that eother vantis or AA have to be brought to account on this. They have misled the court Imo.

Sadly the rest of the world dont give a damn and Pompey are taking advantage of that.

[OldNick]

Knowing that bunch of sh1ts they will get all four years worth of parachute money in one lump.

Has it been clarified when the parachute monies being extended starts?

[bridge too far]

i firmly bleieve if this info had been made public initially then the registrar wuld have had no option but kill thme off on the day. Now she has been seen not to do her duty to all the suppliers and the HMRC, I think that Pompey will get away with it. if the CVA ruse does work they definately have got away with it big time.

 

It seems to me that the Registrar based her judgement on the information supplied by Vantis.

 

Vantis could only provide the SoA based on the information they were given at the time.

 

The fact that more 'secured' debt has appeared suggests to me that some 'creative accounting' has been undertaken since her judgement.

 

Given AA's past record, this doesn't surprise me.

 

CHEATS

[aintforever]

£90 million owed to unsecured creditors - of which £38 million is due to three previous owners in the form of loans , how convieninet that it puts the HMRC out of blocking the CVA. Highly contensious indeed.

Vantis are amazingly quiet

Can 1 of the more informed tell me, can the revenue take this back to the High court, as the court was not given the full evidence when the registrar did not wind them up.

Owing still on players to money lenders, it gets more and more murkier.

It is frustrating

 

The good thing is Leeds originally had a CVA agreed by more than 75% but still ended up with a points penalty so you can see a similar thing happening to pompey IF over 75% agree a CVA.

 

Also, if they do manage to stitch up the tax man and get away with no points penalty (highly unlikely given that they owe more in tax than what Leeds did), their parachutes are as good as spent already so they will still be toast, unless someone wealthy buys them.

[Vershinin]

Has it been clarified when the parachute monies being extended starts?

 

Hopefully not this year! Does anyone know where the PL will get the extra 90 mill??? from each time a set of teams get a new four year 16 mill a year deal after being relegated? And doesnt the FL still have to ratify it?

[standy]

Yes.

Of course the Tax man is keeping an eye on this and will have his day (or 5 or more) in court. No doubt he will wait for the CVA to be agreed or not and will then challenge the figures. Those prepared by Vantis have already been accepted by the court and AA will have to explain why the additional debts were not disclosed too Vantis.

I would expect HMRC to ask the court to go with the original figures or those percentages to ensure that they have their 25%.

HMRC are very upset with thre football debt rule and are trying everything they can to overturn it. AA may be playing into their hands with his poor handling of the administration.

 

I expect another last minute challenge by HMRC with a request for a drawn out hearing hearing back at court which will take PFC past the cut off date for when they to have the CVA agreed.

 

Therefore more points deductions and hopefully toast!!

[PompeyInReading]

It's not weird, you moron. Pompey and Saints are rivals. You lot have provided one of the most hilariously disgraceful seasons in the history of professional football. We have been loving it. I think the PFC fans with numerous posts on here are the ones needing some sort of clinical validation.

 

I shall try to remember what a disgraceful season its been when I watch my team come out at Wembley for the FA Cup final again. When we walk out having lost (probably badly) I will just have to remember the day at St Mary's.

 

If only all season's were this disgraceful.

[Sour Mash]

It seems to me that the Registrar based her judgement on the information supplied by Vantis.

 

Vantis could only provide the SoA based on the information they were given at the time.

 

The fact that more 'secured' debt has appeared suggests to me that some 'creative accounting' has been undertaken since her judgement.

 

Given AA's past record, this doesn't surprise me.

 

CHEATS

 

How is this not fraud? All seems far too easy to dupe the system to me?

[bridge too far]

How is this not fraud? All seems far too easy to dupe the system to me?

 

I would be VERY surprised if HMRC aren't keeping a weather eye on all this.

 

I think they're probably playing their cards very close to their chests right now and will soon come out with the killer blow.

[Sour Mash]

I would be VERY surprised if HMRC aren't keeping a weather eye on all this.

 

I think they're probably playing their cards very close to their chests right now and will soon come out with the killer blow.

 

 

Thanks. One would assume the HMRC are doing as you say, but we've been hearing for months now about this "killer blow", so far the HMRC have struck me as a typical, inefficient, public sector bureaucracy being given the run around by people a lot sharper than them. We'll just have to wait and see, but at the moment they're getting away with it.

[Gingeletiss]

I shall try to remember what a disgraceful season its been when I watch my team come out at Wembley for the FA Cup final again. When we walk out having lost (probably badly) I will just have to remember the day at St Mary's.

 

If only all season's were this disgraceful.

 

I assume you mean the final, that you are in, due to some very suspect shananigans. As for St Marys, you mean the game where you 'bestest fans in the world' were silent for the best part of 60 mins, whilst you played (not disputed anywhere), a player who was not registered.

 

Have your day in the sun PIR, but look over your shoulder, there are some serious storm clouds heading your way.

[Crab Lungs]

Oh my... and how smug is PIR?

[benjii]

Oh my... and how smug is PIR?

 

He's clearly a bit simple -

 

if he thinks losing a Wembley final (wow, what fun) and scraping a barely deserved, illegally obtained, victory over a third tier team outweighs the detritus and general hilarity that they have served up (that is going to cause them untold misery over the next few years, if they still exist in a few years) then there can be no doubt about it.

[standy]

I shall try to remember what a disgraceful season its been when I watch my team come out at Wembley for the FA Cup final again. When we walk out having lost (probably badly) I will just have to remember the day at St Mary's.

 

If only all season's were this disgraceful.

 

 

I'm glad that PIR finds playing against 1st Division Teams such a thrill. With any luck he can play in that division in a couple of years time- or if he's really lucky he may be playing in the Blue Square. Hey its still the premiership!!

[Channon's Sideburns]

Thanks. One would assume the HMRC are doing as you say, but we've been hearing for months now about this "killer blow", so far the HMRC have struck me as a typical, inefficient, public sector bureaucracy being given the run around by people a lot sharper than them. We'll just have to wait and see, but at the moment they're getting away with it.

 

Well, perhaps HMRC are biding their time.

 

May 15th will come and go, the skates will dry out in the sun, flap about a bit, then the taxman may come along and knock them over the head with a lump of wood.

 

With a bit of luck.

 

One other word apart from 'CHEATS' describes that club.

 

R A N C I D

[Guided Missile]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

[Sevvy]

May 15th, My birthday now guess what i want for it. yes the cheaters to get their just desserts

[Vershinin]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

 

Haha, thats made my day. Arise, Sir Peter.

[stevegrant]

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

[ottery st mary]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

 

 

Nice one GM

 

 

Dear Peter, If only 'Arry boy', had listened to you.

 

COYRs

[Whitey Grandad]

Hopefully not this year! Does anyone know where the PL will get the extra 90 mill??? from each time a set of teams get a new four year 16 mill a year deal after being relegated? And doesnt the FL still have to ratify it?

There's a new television deal with the Far East that will bring in bundles of cash. I can't remember the amount but it is shedloads.

[Micky]

Through it all, still I actually feel sorry for them. It really is a putrid, grimey, cess pit of a situation, the stench of (continued?) malpractices is just overpowering.

 

Why the FAPL, and civil authorities, continue to hold handkerchiefs to thier (stuck up) noses and whiff the fresher air of other clubs is astounding.

 

But I am beginning to agree with Nick - the awful smell of dung, could well turn to the sweet aroma of summer blossoms as PFC, through all of the cheating, come up smelling of roses.

[rallyboy]

how high does the debt have to be before EVERYONE accepts that they are trading insolvently and in clear and serious breach of company law and football authority regulations?

 

How high is AA's final bill going to be at this slow and expensive pace he's going?

 

And how different are these legally-binding figures being officially confirmed now from the Vantis report ones, the figures officially confirmed to the Prem as an appeal, or the ones officially presented to the court?

 

Storrie stated that in admin the club owed £25M plus the two big loans.

Unless he was lying and misleading the court and the authorities for the club's gain, AA has allowed the debt to increase by £44M at the rate of nearly £3M a week.

 

If he's trying to cook up a trick for the CVA I think he may have gone too far because with this latest figure the business is dead in the water.

Put the cat out, lock the gate and hand the keys to the nearest creditor.

[Vershinin]

There's a new television deal with the Far East that will bring in bundles of cash. I can't remember the amount but it is shedloads.

 

Ah ok, thanks for that. I hope it doesnt come in this year!

[100%Red&White]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

 

That is a cracker.

[Guided Missile]

Before I go, I think it is instructive to consider yet again what will be the major issue for HMRC and the rest of the creditors at the CVA meeting. No apologies for bringing it up again, but in the cloud of bullsh !t, there is one inescapable rule that applies to Portsmouth City Football Club Limited and any other company registered in Enland and Wales and that is the requirement to register charges at Companies House. I've spent my £3 and I am sure that HMRC has as well and I bet a pound to a pinch of sh !t that NONE of the recently discovered "secured" debts discovered by our intrepid Greek have been registered at Companies House. Why do I think this is important. Well, I think this explains:

 

The following require registration in England and Wales:

• A charge to secure any issue of debentures. A debenture is an instrument issued by a company as evidence of a debt or other obligation. It includes debenture stock, bonds and any other securities of a company, whether or not it forms a charge on the assets of the company.
  
• A charge on uncalled share capital of the company. Uncalled share capital is the balance owing for shares that are issued partly paid.
  
• A charge created or evidenced by an instrument, which, if executed by an individual, would require registration as a bill of sale. A bill of sale is an instrument creating or evidencing a charge or mortgage over goods, including fixtures and agricultural crops in certain cases, but not ships or aircraft.
  
• A charge on land (wherever situated), or any interest in it, but not a charge for any rent or other periodical sum arising from land. Technically, land includes property.
  
• A charge on book debts of the company. Book debts are debts that in the ordinary course of a company's business are commonly entered in its books.
  
• A floating charge on the company's undertaking or property. A floating charge is a charge that does not affect the assets charged until some event 'crystallises' (fixes) the charge to a certain point in time.
  
• A charge on calls made but not paid. Calls made are demands for payment of any part of the balance owing in respect of shares which are issued partly paid.
  
• A charge on a ship or aircraft or any share in a ship.
  
• A charge on goodwill, or on a patent, trademark, registered design, copyright or design right or a licence under or in respect of any such right.
  

What if the charge is not registered in time?

 

If a registrable charge is not registered in time, then it is void against the liquidator or administrator and any creditor of the company. This means that the debt for which the charge was given will remain payable, but it will be unsecured.

[bolo]

are there not extra penalties for clubs going into admin twice? I seem to remember Luton being hit for more because of being in admin more than once....

[Foxstone]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

 

ROFL !:smt044

[OldNick]

I'm just glad that Peter Storrie learnt from our experience, as this article showed:

 

We will stay debt-free pledges Storrie

 

Published Date: 17 May 2005

 

POMPEY have vowed not to follow Saints into the type of financial meltdown reaped by relegation.

Blues chief executive Peter Storrie said: 'If you chase dreams and let finances get out of control, you go out of business.

'But if you're clever, that doesn't happen. It all boils down to not getting into debt. You can't spend more than the income coming in. That's why we're trying to make prudent decisions.

'Wages and transfer fees are where the money goes. That's the thing you can't let spiral. The wage bill has to be sensible in relation to the income.

'We're getting the balance right. We brought in too many players in the past, but now were remedying that'

 

Clever c***, wasn't he?

i dont know where you dig these gems up from Gm but it is hilarious reading. I think I can recall this originally being posted and then reading it with despair and wondering where how he could say all that.

Patently he was living in a dream world and perhaps under the impression that is how he was running the club.

[ottery st mary]

Maybe Peter Storrie was under the NHS and only out on day release for certain football matters..

 

I've seen a few of the posters off this forum in my ward/wing..Never seen Storrie to be honest..

[Gemmel]

What if the charge is not registered in time?

 

If a registrable charge is not registered in time, then it is void against the liquidator or administrator and any creditor of the company. This means that the debt for which the charge was given will remain payable, but it will be unsecured.

 

 

Which would allow them to gain a CVA

[Crab Lungs]

lmfao at the Storrie quote

[View From The Top]

Oh my... and how smug is PIR?

 

Let him be, he's got a sh*t storm heading his way and like most skates thinks that we are gutted about the result at SMS.

[stevegrant]

Which would allow them to gain a CVA

But would have rendered their period of administration invalid... can the courts invalidate it retrospectively?

[tony13579]

Pompey now owe £119 Million.... link

How can this be?

Not to mention £119 000 000 / 16 523 = £7,202.082 per person who attended the last match including away fans.

[Weston Super Saint]

But would have rendered their period of administration invalid... can the courts invalidate it retrospectively?

 

Didn't the judge at their last court hearing state that they reserve the right to validate [or not] the administration....

[Sour Mash]

Which would allow them to gain a CVA

 

But how/why wasn't that known at the point they went into Administration? I don't get it. How hard would it have been for one of the relevant authorities to clarify either way?

[trousers]

Pompey now owe £119 Million.... link

 

Portsmouth's administrator Andrew Andronikou says:

"We are no nearer to a buyer than we have been for the past two months"

 

Hmmm....I remember this 'phase' of adminstration well from our state of termoil this time last year.....i.e. after the bravado of the initial weeks comes the middle phase.....a.k.a. the "it's not looking as good as we thought it would" transition....

 

Of course, we eventually entered the final 'phase 3' in our quest for a new owner, but then Markus only had to stump up something in the region of £15m rather than the £119m now being quoted for Pompey....

 

Hmmmm.....

[Guided Missile]

Which would allow them to gain a CVA

Depends on what fraction of the total debt is secured and frankly, I don't believe a digit on Pompeys accounts, audited or otherwise. A totally crooked organisation, even before Daniel Azoughy started plundering Fuglers client account...

[Gingeletiss]

Didn't the judge at their last court hearing state that they reserve the right to validate [or not] the administration....

 

Yes, hence why I said 'yes' to nickh, when he asked if HMRC can have them back to court. Do not worrym HMRC will be wanting Poopy, dead, dressed, and cooked to perfection.

[bridge too far]

Didn't the judge at their last court hearing state that they reserve the right to validate [or not] the administration....

 

I think HMRC 'accepted' that the administration was valid.

 

I also think that HMRC will be represented at the Creditors' meeting - but I can't remember when it is that has to be held by.

 

Given how hard HMRC have come down on little clubs that owe peanuts, I can't believe they'll let this one slip through the net.

 

I still think they'll come out all guns blazing sooner or later.

[badgerx16]

I think HMRC 'accepted' that the administration was valid.

On the basis of the SofA !