Pompey Takeover Saga

[BigShadow]

So the rule is that you can get away with not paying taxes if HMRC consider the legal case to chase you down to be expensive and long-running.

 

Nice precedent!

 

HMRC have not given up on the money owed by PCFC - they have just accepted the appointment of the administrator can not be successfully challenged. There is only so much they can do within the law.

[Weston Saint]

So the rule is that you can get away with not paying taxes if HMRC consider the legal case to chase you down to be expensive and long-running.

 

Nice precedent!

Nothing to do with precedents.

 

The law states that if a secure creditor puts the business into administration any winding up order is stayed. HMRC accept Chainrai is a secure creditor. Therefore the stay will be put in place. They may not be happy (and nor should they) but throwing more money at a forgone conclusion is a waste of taxpayers money.

 

As I have said previously if there are any wrong doings the Administrator is legally bound to report it to the right authority ie Fraud Unit or Money Laundering Unit.

[Weston Saint]

So where does that leave Southend and Cardiff, who are nowhere near in the mess the Skates are in, not even in relative terms?

Probably looking down the barrel of Administration.

 

Remember Chester did not contest the Winding Up order in the end

[Kingsland Red]

Trust the Echo:

 

Storrieteller in quick get away !!

 

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/5056907.Pompey_escape_winding_up_hearing/

 

(The photo of FP chums)

[Channon's Sideburns]

So would it be right to assume that Jacob stayed on long enough to assist with the HMRC issue, but is now on his way?

 

If so...still leaves the question why did he leave Fuglers.... ;-)

 

That Registrar did them the most almighty favour by giving them 7 days didn't she.

[Saint Keith]

Probably looking down the barrel of Administration.

 

Remember Chester did not contest the Winding Up order in the end

 

Chester had already been in administration for quite a while iirc

[JRM]

I said all along that they will end up being ok, despite relegation it is turning out to be a good season for them, trip to Wembley and beating us will certainly be remembered fondly, all done while fielding a team of players that should not have been on the pitch.

They are making staff redundant, yet have players there on LOAN, some of which were signed after the transfer embargo was lifted at the end of January.

 

I have become increasing bored of speculative comments on here "don't worry they are toast" etc etc etc, almost self-congratulatory, when most on here haven't got a clue and have made assumptions based on media reports and other posters comments.

 

At the very least I want to see them relegated and start next season with a very heavy points deduction.

I would not be at all surprised to see them in the championship with a good enough team to compete and no points deducted

[aintforever]

As I have said previously if there are any wrong doings the Administrator is legally bound to report it to the right authority ie Fraud Unit or Money Laundering Unit.

 

In theory, but when the administrator is being paid by the same crooks he's supposed to report than it's obviously not going to happen is it.

 

The whole thing stinks, Saints played everything by the book, one cheque bounced and we had -10 which screwed up our entire season.

 

Pompey screw us - the tax payer, out of millions and get -9 that wont mean anything because they are as good as down already.

 

Just shows how useless and inept HRMC are, no wonder the country is ****ed if foreign criminals can sidestep paying tax so easily.

[saintds]

I have become increasing bored of speculative comments on here "don't worry they are toast" etc etc etc, almost self-congratulatory, when most on here haven't got a clue and have made assumptions based on media reports and other posters comments.

 

Can't really argue with that. While I'm sure that a lot of people have researched the whole legal process very thoroughly indeed, the amount of unknowns means that there is a lot of hope rather than certainty in terms of the fate of the fishy few.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Nothing to do with precedents.

 

The law states that if a secure creditor puts the business into administration any winding up order is stayed. HMRC accept Chainrai is a secure creditor. Therefore the stay will be put in place. They may not be happy (and nor should they) but throwing more money at a forgone conclusion is a waste of taxpayers money.

 

 

Spot on.

 

This wasn't a great battle for survival which they won and HMRC lost.

 

They are just back to where they started from, in admin, relegated and facing a very very uncertain future.There are a dozen CCC clubs that represent better value and potential for someone looking to invest in a Football Club. They've just lost the only attractive thing about themselves, their Premier league status.

 

Take away James, Belhadj,Ohara,Piquonne, and Yebda and they're very very ordinary. It's tough enough to get back up, with a decent side. We'll be back in the Preimership before they will, I'm convinced of that.

[stardustonmyfeet]

Did anyone notice the sum required to register genuine interest in buying Pompey? It's a mighty £5,000. Maybe it's a typo, from what I recall, when we were at the same stage last year Fry required 250K.

 

Anyone for a whip-around?

[mack rill]

Bit slow on hear today, INIT,,,,,Yesterday i could hardly keep up with all the high optimism of little old us about to be flushed, Today its like (who's pizzed in your cornflakes)

 

Oh! high Nicky Boy:smt023,,,,,,couldnee give me a few tipps for the Boooooooooookys mate,

 

 

Kin-ell 4-1 again!

[Tamesaint]

Bit slow on hear today, INIT,,,,,Yesterday i could hardly keep up with all the high optimism of little old us about to be flushed, Today its like (who's pizzed in your cornflakes)

 

Oh! high Nicky Boy:smt023,,,,,,couldnee give me a few tipps for the Boooooooooookys mate,

 

 

Kin-ell 4-1 again!

 

Remember mack that its the hope that will kill you. You can cope with despair.

 

If you were wound up, AFC Pompey would be founded, you fishy few would band together and you would dream of the better times ahead. As it is you have nothing to look forward to but point deductions (-9 this year, -15+ next year, -30 the next after Storrie Tellergets banged up) and a long slow death.

 

The future is bright. Its not blue and white.

[View From The Top]

LOL at the idiots.

 

Nothing has changed bar the now official removal of the WUP which would have happened when admin was entered.

 

They are still totally and utterly foooooked and only a fool can't see it.

[mack rill]

Remember mack that its the hope that will kill you. You can cope with despair.

 

If you were wound up, AFC Pompey would be founded, you fishy few would band together and you would dream of the better times ahead. As it is you have nothing to look forward to but point deductions (-9 this year, -15+ next year, -30 the next after Storrie Tellergets banged up) and a long slow death.

 

The future is bright. Its not blue and white.

 

LOL;) Believe me Tamesaint When you have been walking int that shyt hole we call home since 1970 You gotta have hope;)

 

Kin-ell not 4-1 again,

[pedg]

I wonder what the cut off date is for setting up AFC pompey? Given this stay of execution there must be a risk that if they are not sold then by the time they admit defeat and are wound up it may be too late for AFC pompey for next season?

[suewhistle]

I would not be at all surprised to see them in the championship with a good enough team to compete and no points deducted

 

Err, and how is said team going to be paid. At least Saints can point to reasonable gates (another 30k against Leeds). Who will pay these decent CCC players, who will need to be "persuaded" to go to such a shambles of a club? Have they any decent reserve/academy team players to step up?? With the parachute money mortgaged who is going to take on the club, its massive debts (I've lost track of the amount, but so it seems have the professionals) and commitment to pay rental on the crap ground. I really can't see it.

[scott_saints]

Anyone else really looking forward to next seasons attendance threads, once they're struggling in the championship?

[Joensuu]

And so this thread gets to continue for a bit longer....

 

IMO opinion today's news is the best possible outcome. Instead of being able to form a new 'untarnished' club, the Few will have to suffer a protracted death.

 

As already discussed on here countless times, they are about as unattractive as a football club can get, no assets, still massive running costs, almost certian lack of a CVA, etc. In fact, barring anything fishy, the chances of them getting a new (legit) owner are negligable. How long will Chainrai be willing to finance the administration cirus? 4 weeks? 8 weeks? until some players can be sold? I think there is a good chance the Administration process will end up in liquidation. I hope not, as personally I want to watch the Few suffering.

 

So grab the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the slow demise of the nastiest little club in the country.

 

Premiership 2009/2010 -9

Championship 2010/2011 -20

League One 2011/2012 - ??

[SaintBobby]

Bit slow on hear today, INIT,,,,,Yesterday i could hardly keep up with all the high optimism of little old us about to be flushed, Today its like (who's pizzed in your cornflakes)

 

Oh! high Nicky Boy:smt023,,,,,,couldnee give me a few tipps for the Boooooooooookys mate,

 

 

Kin-ell 4-1 again!

 

I think it's this sort of attitude that ensures so many football fans - not just Saints - are revelling in Pompey's demise.

 

The fact that the skates' death looks like being long, slow and painful just makes the whole thing even more joyous.

 

Wonderful entertainment and the best contribution that Portsmouth will ever make to English football (their collapse may be the catalyst for reform)

[Crab Lungs]

Anyone had any further information on from the FT and Android regarding your proposed takeovers?

 

My 'lemonparty' consortium have still heard nothing, so we're retreating back to our Fareham-based hotel for a bit of slap and tickle on chatroulette.

[Micky]

HMRC have not given up on the money owed by PCFC - they have just accepted the appointment of the administrator can not be successfully challenged. There is only so much they can do within the law.

 

This is as I understand it as well - could somebody (Weston Saint) perhaps confirm where they currently stand.

 

Have HMRC simply accepted that their is no conflict of interest between the appointed administrator and the club, but will continue look to recoup the outstanding monies owed through the courts?

 

Or has the whole case been dropped?

 

Sorry I'm a little confused as they were 'toast' yesterday but appear to have a 'get out of jail' card today.

[View From The Top]

Have HMRC simply accepted that their is no conflict of interest between the appointed administrator and the club

 

This.

[suewhistle]

Anyone had any further information on from the FT and Android regarding your proposed takeovers?

 

My 'lemonparty' consortium have still heard nothing, so we're retreating back to our Fareham-based hotel for a bit of slap and tickle on chatroulette.

 

You couldn't afford the paltry £5000 to express an interest, go on, admit it. :-) Perhaps we arrange it via the forum, just so that we can see the accounts. Bet they'd be a scream!!

[Weston Saint]

This is as I understand it as well - could somebody (Weston Saint) perhaps confirm where they currently stand.

 

Have HMRC simply accepted that their is no conflict of interest between the appointed administrator and the club, but will continue look to recoup the outstanding monies owed through the courts?

 

Or has the whole case been dropped?

 

Sorry I'm a little confused as they were 'toast' yesterday but appear to have a 'get out of jail' card today.

 

HMRC have accepted chainrai has a legal right to be a secure creditor. Therefore he can put them into Administration and the winding up order is stayed.

 

HMRC now become an unsecure creditor and have to wait in line like all other unsecure creditors.

 

Expect a creditors meeting in about 8 weeks where they will be told by the Administrator the progress he is making in trying to recover some of their losses.

 

Once the Administrator has found a willing buyer he will tell the unsecure creditors what % in the pound they can expect and ask them to agree a Creditors Voluntary Agreement for that %.

 

If HMRC have an interest of more than 25% of the unsecure credtitors amount they will refuse to sign and Pompey will exit without such agreement.

 

As the Football League insist on a CVA to carry on playing in the league PFC will have to ask them to come back without. In the past FL have allocated an additional 15 points penalty

[OldNick]

Bit slow on hear today, INIT,,,,,Yesterday i could hardly keep up with all the high optimism of little old us about to be flushed, Today its like (who's pizzed in your cornflakes)

 

Oh! high Nicky Boy:smt023,,,,,,couldnee give me a few tipps for the Boooooooooookys mate,

 

 

Kin-ell 4-1 again!

Hi Mack after me slapping you down yesterday, I feel more mellow today.

I have seen your games to come and as has been rightly pointed out, the expectations of you getting a lot of points is unlikely.

If Spurs are your opponents in the semi, you will lose O'hara, a massive loss as he was the only player you had who had the balls to stand up on the day against us.

Going to Wembley for a semi-final and losing will not be nice. i have experienced it twice in the FA cup and at least once in the League cup. It is not like losing in the final i promise you.

If you only get relegated you have got off scot free IMO (that is the club not you)

I think without a doubt most saints and Pompey fans will be delighted if PS Redknapp and co get theiir just desserts.(although it still bemuses me that some of your fans still think PS did a good job)

[Micky]

HMRC have accepted chainrai has a legal right to be a secure creditor. Therefore he can put them into Administration and the winding up order is stayed.

 

HMRC now become an unsecure creditor and have to wait in line like all other unsecure creditors.

 

Expect a creditors meeting in about 8 weeks where they will be told by the Administrator the progress he is making in trying to recover some of their losses.

 

Once the Administrator has found a willing buyer he will tell the unsecure creditors what % in the pound they can expect and ask them to agree a Creditors Voluntary Agreement for that %.

 

If HMRC have an interest of more than 25% of the unsecure credtitors amount they will refuse to sign and Pompey will exit without such agreement.

 

As the Football League insist on a CVA to carry on playing in the league PFC will have to ask them to come back without. In the past FL have allocated an additional 15 points penalty

 

Thanks mate - in your opinion, what is the most likely end result?

[OldNick]

Anyone had any further information on from the FT and Android regarding your proposed takeovers?

 

My 'lemonparty' consortium have still heard nothing, so we're retreating back to our Fareham-based hotel for a bit of slap and tickle on chatroulette.

I watched AA giving his interview at the press conference and was very composed.At the end he was asked about people interested he said 2 had shown proof of funds and at that stage his eyes went side to side like the baddie puppet did on Thunderbirds. Not sure i trust that statement

[Joensuu]

If you only get relegated you have got off scot free IMO (that is the club not you)

 

IMO this is not the case.

[Gemmel]

LOL you have to pay 5k to speak with the adminstartor. You get your money back in six weeks.

 

I do hope that wasn't something implemented after Joey Deacon and Rupert Duckhunter applied for more information

 

 

I bet Mr M Jackson is a bit miffed

[Weston Saint]

Thanks mate - in your opinion, what is the most likely end result?

 

Best realistic case outcome for PFC:

 

-9 and relegation

 

Starting next season with a new owner but most of the "premier players" moving on. Loans and Frees with low value transfers.

 

Stability in a few years.

 

Worse case:

 

No buyer and liquidation at the end of the season.

 

Not sure yet whether HMRC will represent more that 25% and therefore -15 next season

[docker-p]

If a points penealty is empossed because the club in administration is percieved to have gained advantage over competitors, what is the FAs justification for letting the Blue Few rock all the way to Wembley in the Cup?

Someone I'm sure has asked the question on this thread someone, but you'll forgive me for not reading through 20,000+ posts

[badgerx16]

Where do they now stand with regard to the FA rule about withholding FA Cup prize monies when a club is officially in receivership ?

[NickG]

to quote another poster...

 

 

..they are getting away with it!

[Weston Saint]

Where do they now stand with regard to the FA rule about withholding FA Cup prize monies when a club is officially in receivership ?

They have to write and apply for it as they are in administration. I suspect FA will insist it be held back for football creditors. How that will lay with the insolvency laws of the land I do not know.

[rooney]

I cannot see how Mr Androcles an say that he will cut things to the bone, when he allows them to fly to Burnley last week and overnight in a Hotel and then pay Storrie £35K per month. Exactly what is Storrie supposed to be doing, as surely Androcles is running things at the Club now? The whole thing stinks and I wonder if there is more than we can ever imagine, to come out of this mess.

[Chin Strain]

 

Not sure yet whether HMRC will represent more that 25% and therefore -15 next season

 

The way I see it is the prize money for the FA cup will go to the football creditors. As such I would think that HMRC would represent a bigger share of the unsecured debt than 25%. I believe the HMRC debt is £18m from reports, and it takes it over 25% once you take of BCs £15m.

 

I'm a bit unclear on what happens if Pompey can't pay their football debts - will they get a further points deduction on top of the CVA deduction? If Chanrai ends up getting all his money back, including the cost of administration, and the cost to get to the end of the season, he'll surely be looking at c. £30m in repayment. Even if he retains the ground (£10m off his debt), and sells the players, they'll surely be lucky to get anything for the remaining 'assets'.

 

The only other question in this is whether anyone has got the parachute money secured against their debt. I think this is the key question which will give a big clue as to whether they'll actually get any buyer. From the minutes of the administrators meeting with the fans, it seems as though the administrators haven't got a clue.

[Chin Strain]

They have to write and apply for it as they are in administration. I suspect FA will insist it be held back for football creditors. How that will lay with the insolvency laws of the land I do not know.

 

Increasing the chance of HMRC getting to the magical 25%

[pedg]

I cannot see how Mr Androcles an say that he will cut things to the bone, when he allows them to fly to Burnley last week and overnight in a Hotel and then pay Storrie £35K per month. Exactly what is Storrie supposed to be doing, as surely Androcles is running things at the Club now? The whole thing stinks and I wonder if there is more than we can ever imagine, to come out of this mess.

 

Admittedly the Storrie situation does not have a nice aroma but I think there is some excuse to flying the team to Burley as they are an 'advert' for the club and if they lose badly because they have been on a coach for 8 hours it may affect their chance of a sale. Whilst, even with the points reduction, there is an outside chance of them staying in the prem it would be silly for the administrators not to try to maintain that possible result for as long as possible.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Heard on Solent earlier that the Pompey fans have called for Storrieteller's resignation.

 

Not a day too soon....

[Panda]

"The only other question in this is whether anyone has got the parachute money secured against their debt. I think this is the key question which will give a big clue as to whether they'll actually get any buyer. From the minutes of the administrators meeting with the fans, it seems as though the administrators haven't got a clue."

 

Only relegated teams get a 'parachute' payment. Until they are formally relegated (ie last day of the season) they will not be entitled to a parachute payment. Although they will certainly be relegated I cannot see how they can possibly secure a lone against future parachute payments as this would mean they would have to ensure they lost enough games to make relegation a certainity and that would involve match fixing! Mind you, this is Portsmouth we are talking about so ...

[Weston Saint]

The way I see it is the prize money for the FA cup will go to the football creditors. As such I would think that HMRC would represent a bigger share of the unsecured debt than 25%. I believe the HMRC debt is £18m from reports, and it takes it over 25% once you take of BCs £15m.

 

I'm a bit unclear on what happens if Pompey can't pay their football debts - will they get a further points deduction on top of the CVA deduction? If Chanrai ends up getting all his money back, including the cost of administration, and the cost to get to the end of the season, he'll surely be looking at c. £30m in repayment. Even if he retains the ground (£10m off his debt), and sells the players, they'll surely be lucky to get anything for the remaining 'assets'.

 

The only other question in this is whether anyone has got the parachute money secured against their debt. I think this is the key question which will give a big clue as to whether they'll actually get any buyer. From the minutes of the administrators meeting with the fans, it seems as though the administrators haven't got a clue.

My understanding is that if they do not pay their football special creditor debts they will not be able to play in the league. It has not happened before to any club coming out of administration so there is no precedent only the laid down rules of membership

[sidthesquid]

In some ways you could actually look at Chainrai being passed as a secure creditor as good news. HMRC are now the biggest unsecured creditor by a mile making a CVA less likely, making survival but a slow lingering death more likely. What will give you more pleasure next season - seeing a Championship score all over SSN of Poopey 0 S****horpe Utd 3 or looking in the Echo for AFC Poopey 5 Bashley 0? I know which I'd prefer

[Chin Strain]

In some ways you could actually look at Chainrai being passed as a secure creditor as good news. HMRC are now the biggest unsecured creditor by a mile making a CVA less likely, making survival but a slow lingering death more likely. What will give you more pleasure next season - seeing a Championship score all over SSN of Poopey 0 S****horpe Utd 3 or looking in the Echo for AFC Poopey 5 Bashley 0? I know which I'd prefer

 

Gaydamak must be an unsecured creditor if Chanrai has security over everything.

[Chin Strain]

"The only other question in this is whether anyone has got the parachute money secured against their debt. I think this is the key question which will give a big clue as to whether they'll actually get any buyer. From the minutes of the administrators meeting with the fans, it seems as though the administrators haven't got a clue."

 

Only relegated teams get a 'parachute' payment. Until they are formally relegated (ie last day of the season) they will not be entitled to a parachute payment. Although they will certainly be relegated I cannot see how they can possibly secure a lone against future parachute payments as this would mean they would have to ensure they lost enough games to make relegation a certainity and that would involve match fixing! Mind you, this is Portsmouth we are talking about so ...

 

It's security against future income. The parachute payments are the minimum that a PL club would receive, as staying up is worth more. I don't see it as any different to a mortgage lender lending you money based on your future income.

[tommi]

I said all along that they will end up being ok, despite relegation it is turning out to be a good season for them, trip to Wembley and beating us will certainly be remembered fondly, all done while fielding a team of players that should not have been on the pitch.

They are making staff redundant, yet have players there on LOAN, some of which were signed after the transfer embargo was lifted at the end of January.

 

I have become increasing bored of speculative comments on here "don't worry they are toast" etc etc etc, almost self-congratulatory, when most on here haven't got a clue and have made assumptions based on media reports and other posters comments.

 

At the very least I want to see them relegated and start next season with a very heavy points deduction.

I would not be at all surprised to see them in the championship with a good enough team to compete and no points deducted

 

Top post, agree 100% The minority are proven correct again.

[sidthesquid]

I know we are on page 416 & we may have peaked a little prematurely, but this thread is going to run & run & run. Page 500 will come & go in a flash. By page 1000 we might just be getting to the bottom of the murky fishtank of secrets, deceptions, lies & Storries.

The good news is that they are just about down & at the start I would have settled for that alone. They still have mind-boggling debts & an ownership structure that will make it all but impossible to secure a sensible new owner. The authorities are onto them and won't go away, meaning that there is no chance of a Gaydy/Chainrai stitch up & resurrection. And our fun & their misery could last for years.

So, (though I do understand the sentiments of the nickh tendency) keep the faith.

[Matthew Le God]

Simple things please my mind...

 

[Chin Strain]

Top post, agree 100% The minority are proven correct again.

 

Oh right...very self congratulatory.

 

Have I missed something? Has anyone come in and paid £30m for them yet? Has this buyer pledged to spunk loads of money on new players? Are they out of administration with an approved CVA and starting next season on zero?

 

No, thought not. The minority aren't even close to being proved right. Plenty of gas left in this particular tank.

 

Remember, we had assets and found one buyer. We were lucky.

[View From The Top]

Top post, agree 100% The minority are proven correct again.

 

Only if you're really thick and can't see what's happening.