Pompey Takeover Saga

[Danish Saint]

It seems to me, there's no difference between what Storrieteller, Jacob et al has been saying and what the administrator is saying now.

 

That could also be something for the court to have a look at, as he doesn't seem to be acting like an independent, but more like another sales agent.

[Wes Tender]

So Mr. Astrologicalfees reckons that there is a possibility that the FA might sanction the Skates being able to sell players outside of the transfer window and then loan them back until the end of the season.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken in my reasoning about the fly in the ointment. As I understand it, FA rules dictate that if a club takes a player on loan, he cannot participate in the FA Cup if he has already played matches in that season's competitiion previously. Therefore, half of their squad would be ineligible to continue in the competition, even if they did manage to get past Birmingham.

 

Personally, I'd think that the whole thing would stink like rotten fish if they were allowed to have the rules bent in their favour like this anyway. It must be a consideration that they were able to strengthen their team by effectively trading whilst insolvent and therefore gained an advantage over teams who were much more circumspect about keeping their expenditure on players within proper financial constraints.

[dubai_phil]

Why am I not surprised at the "Positive Energies" coming out of PCFC.

 

Is there a game at the weekend? How are ticket sales going for that?

[Saints foreva]

Why am I not surprised at the "Positive Energies" coming out of PCFC.

 

Is there a game at the weekend? How are ticket sales going for that?

 

Birmingham in the FA Cup I think, winner goes to Wembley so I suspect it will be a sale out.

 

If not - LOL.

[Foxstone]

Oh dear....seems like Mr Astrologicalfees has caught the Skate Over-Positivity Bug....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8548666.stm

 

Only £30M...? Wow, bargain.

 

 

Its the "used car salesman speak" that amuses me !

 

" Buyers will need in excess of £30 million to buy the club" !!

 

With its debts that is double that amount surely!

[krissyboy31]

Birmingham in the FA Cup I think, winner goes to Wembley so I suspect it will be a sale out.

 

If not - LOL.

 

Especially as there will be 3,000 Brummies there.

[pedg]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Meeting-with-Premier-League-chief.6122600.jp

Pompey's administrator announced last week that he plans to challenge the league's rules on deducting teams nine points for going in to administration.

 

Speaking to The News yesterday, Mr Andronikou said: 'I still stand by that. Their position is that we must take it but it's never been tested so I'm saying "show me why".

...

The administrator said he plans to ask Mr Scudamore to allow Pompey to count future TV and commercial payments due from the Premier League as part of the club's assets when they begin negotiating with creditors.

 

'It makes logical sense. This is our money, we just haven't received it yet,' he said.

 

The club is also seeking to include the £20m-plus 'parachute payments' paid out to relegated teams if the point deduction does go ahead this season.

 

So wants the PL to turn a blind eye to blatant cheating and let them count as assets stuff they don't have.

[Weston Saint]

There were over 600 tickets unsold this morning according to Solent Sports News

[krissyboy31]

There were over 600 tickets unsold this morning according to Solent Sports News

 

So they can only sell 17.000 home tickets for the FA Cup QF and yet they've sold less than 16,500? They really are superb fans.

[OldNick]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Meeting-with-Premier-League-chief.6122600.jp

Pompey's administrator announced last week that he plans to challenge the league's rules on deducting teams nine points for going in to administration.

 

Speaking to The News yesterday, Mr Andronikou said: 'I still stand by that. Their position is that we must take it but it's never been tested so I'm saying "show me why".

...

The administrator said he plans to ask Mr Scudamore to allow Pompey to count future TV and commercial payments due from the Premier League as part of the club's assets when they begin negotiating with creditors.

 

'It makes logical sense. This is our money, we just haven't received it yet,' he said.

 

The club is also seeking to include the £20m-plus 'parachute payments' paid out to relegated teams if the point deduction does go ahead this season.

 

So wants the PL to turn a blind eye to blatant cheating and let them count as assets stuff they don't have.

I dont know what others in the administrator world think but are they surprised that the loan players have not been dispatched yet to help reduce the bills. He seems to be carrying on like they were before

[rallyboy]

he does come across as a clueless chancer.

 

I know that administrators are double glazing salesmen in smarter suits but he doesn't do their cause any good by spouting rubbish.

The penalty is written clearly in black and white.

The future income can be included as 'possible future income' but you can't say, 'I'm on £50K a year so I want £1M now', like a six year old with no grasp of how finance works.

 

He needs to sound positive as a salesman, but there is no hint at the reality of the situation, then again it isn't his football club so he doesn't care if it all goes pop.

He can just walk away from the wreckage and leave the police to finish the job.

 

Interesting that he agrees with a few of us on here about the club valuation - £30-40M now and the same again to restructure debt.

That confirms that there is no get rich quick opportunity for an investor, just a long haul of hassle and poverty.

[Danish Saint]

I dont know what others in the administrator world think but are they surprised that the loan players have not been dispatched yet to help reduce the bills. He seems to be carrying on like they were before

 

Exactly!!

 

They're in admin... havn't seen a single effort to cut cost from the administrator. I really can't tell the difference now from last week..

 

They're supposed to be in admin, but nothing has been done to reduce expenditure.

 

Stalling for more time? The tune's no different, as in TV-money and parachute payments.

[Gemmel]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Meeting-with-Premier-League-chief.6122600.jp

Pompey's administrator announced last week that he plans to challenge the league's rules on deducting teams nine points for going in to administration.

 

Speaking to The News yesterday, Mr Andronikou said: 'I still stand by that. Their position is that we must take it but it's never been tested so I'm saying "show me why".

...

The administrator said he plans to ask Mr Scudamore to allow Pompey to count future TV and commercial payments due from the Premier League as part of the club's assets when they begin negotiating with creditors.

 

'It makes logical sense. This is our money, we just haven't received it yet,' he said.

 

The club is also seeking to include the £20m-plus 'parachute payments' paid out to relegated teams if the point deduction does go ahead this season.

 

So wants the PL to turn a blind eye to blatant cheating and let them count as assets stuff they don't have.

 

 

Let them have it pedg.

 

They need the 20 million + to simply keep trading (Not sure why as Balloo has shown his proof of funds to keep them going through admin.....unless he didn't really mean it) That's there main revenue streams gone for a minimum of two years and all it buys them is time to find a buyer at 30 million.

So what does 30 million buy you;

 

1) A championship side that will almost certainly start next season with additional minus points. ( Sound familiar- not sure what the difference is between coca cola and league 1 in tv revenue terms)

2) Although the 30 million will clear the debts, the club is still bleeding money, so additional money to fund that, until players can be sold. 17 of their squad are out of contract in June, that means no transfer fee for them

3) No infrastructure, ground or training ground

4) Reduced (Even further) fan base = less revenue

5) Future penalty points if Storrie is convicted of tax evasion. (Storries relates to the club - arry and mandicks dont)

 

Compare that to what 13 million bought ML

 

League one team on minus points

32,000 stadium (7 years old)

Training complex

Land (Sorry for mentioning Jacksons farm)

8 million pounds worth of players

Decent fan base

External revenue (Concerts, events, seminars etc)

Two large houses

And a nice picture of a train

[Guided Missile]

Oh dear....seems like Mr Astrologicalfees has caught the Skate Over-Positivity Bug....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8548666.stm

 

Only £30M...? Wow, bargain.

Remind me what Mark Fry got for Southampton FC? £13-15M including an as new 32,000 seater stadium. He'll be lucky to get £5M...

[Foxstone]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Meeting-with-Premier-League-chief.6122600.jp

Pompey's administrator announced last week that he plans to challenge the league's rules on deducting teams nine points for going in to administration.

 

Speaking to The News yesterday, Mr Andronikou said: 'I still stand by that. Their position is that we must take it but it's never been tested so I'm saying "show me why".

...

The administrator said he plans to ask Mr Scudamore to allow Pompey to count future TV and commercial payments due from the Premier League as part of the club's assets when they begin negotiating with creditors.

 

'It makes logical sense. This is our money, we just haven't received it yet,' he said.

 

The club is also seeking to include the £20m-plus 'parachute payments' paid out to relegated teams if the point deduction does go ahead this season.

 

So wants the PL to turn a blind eye to blatant cheating and let them count as assets stuff they don't have.

 

It is so abundantly clear that the cornerstone of Androids plan revolves asking the EPL to bend the rules allowing PFC a chance to remain in the Prem - Whether it be waiving the 9 points penalty and/or a special transfer window for them that involves a loan back option.

Other than this fantasy wish list, he does not seem to have any other plan at all!

Desperate stuff.

[rooney]

If cutting things to the bone means flying the team and entourage to Burnley and staying in a hotel overnight, the Administrator would have had a little more credence, if he made them go up on the coach early on Saturday.

[pedg]

He's now whining about being picked on by HMRC

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-administrator-slams-HMRC.6122599.jp

 

'It took me by complete surprise. I was busy getting on with the job in hand then come 4pm on Monday and Mr Revenue man and his briefcase wants his five minutes in court.

 

'Well, he got more than five minutes - their submissions lasted an hour-and-a-half, ours lasted a fraction of that. Enough said.'

 

Yes, they had lots of evidence and questions and you had one dubious promise. Enough said indeed.

[Gorgiesaint]

It is so abundantly clear that the cornerstone of Androids plan revolves asking the EPL to bend the rules allowing PFC a chance to remain in the Prem - Whether it be waiving the 9 points penalty and/or a special transfer window for them that involves a loan back option.

Other than this fantasy wish list, he does not seem to have any other plan at all!

Desperate stuff.

 

In reality, Android is only doing what Fry did with us and making an attempt to appeal the points deduction. The FL turned us down, and even bent their own rules to fit, denying a right to appeal so that they made sure we were punished - but what about the PL. You have to remember that the PL are desperate for PFC to be relegated so there is no way (IMO) that they will waive the 9 point deduction.

[Crab Lungs]

Even the administrator is a complete loon.

 

£30m for that pile of old crap? Er, no thank you.

 

And he's going to ask the EPL as to why Portsmouth should incur the penalty points... "I'm going to ask them what for?" - Er, cheating, money laundering?

[Foxstone]

He's now whining about being picked on by HMRC

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Pompey-administrator-slams-HMRC.6122599.jp

 

'It took me by complete surprise. I was busy getting on with the job in hand then come 4pm on Monday and Mr Revenue man and his briefcase wants his five minutes in court.

 

'Well, he got more than five minutes - their submissions lasted an hour-and-a-half, ours lasted a fraction of that. Enough said.'

 

Yes, they had lots of evidence and questions and you had one dubious promise. Enough said indeed.

 

 

Defensive stuff similar to the type we have seen from Storrie-teller in the recent past, Ie: using the press to make Pompey look like the victim in all of this.

 

Suggest to me that HMRC have really touched a raw nerve at the edge of a gaping wound!

[pedg]

Defensive stuff similar to the type we have seen from Storrie-teller in the recent past, Ie: using the press to make Pompey look like the victim in all of this.

 

Suggest to me that HMRC have really touched a raw nerve at the edge of a gaping wound!

 

Indeed, notice that part of his defence is 'they only had to ask us' where as in court HMRC said they had asked and did not get even the smallest of replies until the evening before the court case.

[miserableoldgit]

Let them have it pedg.

 

They need the 20 million + to simply keep trading (Not sure why as Balloo has shown his proof of funds to keep them going through admin.....unless he didn't really mean it) That's there main revenue streams gone for a minimum of two years and all it buys them is time to find a buyer at 30 million.

So what does 30 million buy you;

 

1) A championship side that will almost certainly start next season with additional minus points. ( Sound familiar- not sure what the difference is between coca cola and league 1 in tv revenue terms)

2) Although the 30 million will clear the debts, the club is still bleeding money, so additional money to fund that, until players can be sold. 17 of their squad are out of contract in June, that means no transfer fee for them

3) No infrastructure, ground or training ground

4) Reduced (Even further) fan base = less revenue

5) Future penalty points if Storrie is convicted of tax evasion. (Storries relates to the club - arry and mandicks dont)

 

Compare that to what 13 million bought ML

 

League one team on minus points

32,000 stadium (7 years old)

Training complex

Land (Sorry for mentioning Jacksons farm)

8 million pounds worth of players

Decent fan base

External revenue (Concerts, events, seminars etc)

Two large houses

And a nice picture of a train

Don`t forget an historic track-suit with "RL" on it.

[Guided Missile]

Daily Torygraph

 

Andrew Andronikou, the Portsmouth administrator, has admitted that he cannot yet confirm whether the £15 million that has been promised by owner Balram Chainrai will be given to the club or would place even further debt on the company.

 

[ART]

Don`t forget an historic track-suit with "RL" on it.

 

I'm sure the Skates can dig up old rags with HR or Harry and Jim scarves amidst the Rust at Farton.

[em00jie]

Out of interest if they drop through the CCC in their 1st season to L1 do they still get the 2nd parachute payment from the PL?

[Gemmel]

Daily Torygraph

 

Andrew Andronikou, the Portsmouth administrator, has admitted that he cannot yet confirm whether the £15 million that has been promised by owner Balram Chainrai will be given to the club or would place even further debt on the company.

 

 

Is this a joke? This is a direct quote from that article (May be i'm being naive - but would assume it is genuine if in the Telegraph)

 

Asked if Chainrai’s pledge of up to £15 million would add to the debts, Andronikou said: “Not necessarily. I need to establish exactly on what basis it is being advanced to me but effectively it is there to safeguard the immediate future of the club

 

So this bloked waltzed into court telling everybody all is ok, they can fund administration and here's the proof................ But doesn't have any idea on what basis Ballo is providing the funds?????????????????? If he doesn't know if it is going to add to the debt, how can he be shouting the club will cost 30 million???????????

 

May be I've missed something, but that seems totallly bizarre to me.

[hutch]

A couple of observations on the press reports following yesterday's events.

 

The Times have quoted Andy:

 

“

In simple terms, they questioned whether Portpin had actually advanced any money to the company, which is strange, because in November Portpin paid about £5 million of PAYE and VAT for them,” Andronikou said. “Unfortunately, you can’t stand up in court and state the obvious

."

 

Actually Andy, you can. You just pass a note forward to your Counsel. But, of course, you wouldn't bother (or he would just ignore it) if it didn't help your case. One of our learned colleagues helpfully posted on here that a charge must be registered within 21 days of the relevant transaction. Portpin must show that it has lent new money to PCFC after 17th December for the January 7th charge, and subsequent administration arising from it, to be effective.

 

I think that's very significant. If there was any new money after 17th December, I would have expected Andy to have known about it. And if there was, and he knew about it, I would have expected him to have said so.

 

The other interesting point is regarding the number of reports that Baloo has provided £15m to Andy to "see him through". Of course, he hasn't. Mr. Mitchell and the Judge clearly said so. Mr. Barker provided a letter from a bank (BNP Paribas?) that Baloo has £15m in an account, which could be made available (or words to that effect). If Andy had £15m from Baloo, which on his version is far more than he needs, why would he need to go to the PL to ask for an advance on tv money and parachute payments? The club would be a far more saleable asset with future parachute payments intact to ease the pain.

 

If I was on the PL board, I would be asking Andy why he wants an advance now, when he's already on the record as saying he has £15m from Baloo in his pocket to get to the end of admin? Why not just let the new owners, who are queueing up to buy this bargain, buy the club and sort out the required CVA with HMRC and everybody else, and then use the parachute payments for the purpose for which they were intended?

 

Baloo has no intention of putting any more of his money into the club. He wants as much as he can get back (or out). That's why Andy is going cap in hand to the PL.

 

If Andy does have the balls to continue in the meantime, I genuinely feel sorry for those who will find themselves out of a job in the next few days. With very few exceptions, they were not responsible for this mess.

 

 

I don't think they'll be wound up at the next hearing, despite what HMRC say. I expect PCFC to make their contingent application for a Court-appointed administrator (and ask for that Court-apointed administrator to be Andy & Co.), before the hearing. The running order on the day would then be:

 

1. Consideration of the propriety of Andy's appointment

2. Consideration for contingent application to appoint administrators (Andy)

3. Winding up petition

 

Based on what we know so far, I would expect HMRC to win on 1. It will then move on to 2.

 

In my experience, Courts do tend to lean towards the "poor little guy" who has unfortunately found himself in difficulty, but is trying to do the decent thing to get out of it. So I think there is a strong possibility that the Court will appoint administrators, but it won't be Andy & Co.

 

On that basis the WUP will remain stayed.

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

[ericofarabia]

Let them have it pedg.

 

They need the 20 million + to simply keep trading (Not sure why as Balloo has shown his proof of funds to keep them going through admin.....unless he didn't really mean it) That's there main revenue streams gone for a minimum of two years and all it buys them is time to find a buyer at 30 million.

So what does 30 million buy you;

 

1) A championship side that will almost certainly start next season with additional minus points. ( Sound familiar- not sure what the difference is between coca cola and league 1 in tv revenue terms)

2) Although the 30 million will clear the debts, the club is still bleeding money, so additional money to fund that, until players can be sold. 17 of their squad are out of contract in June, that means no transfer fee for them

3) No infrastructure, ground or training ground

4) Reduced (Even further) fan base = less revenue

5) Future penalty points if Storrie is convicted of tax evasion. (Storries relates to the club - arry and mandicks dont)

 

Compare that to what 13 million bought ML

 

League one team on minus points

32,000 stadium (7 years old)

Training complex

Land (Sorry for mentioning Jacksons farm)

8 million pounds worth of players

Decent fan base

External revenue (Concerts, events, seminars etc)

Two large houses

And a nice picture of a train

 

The deal sealer ..... I wonder what has happened to it .... in a Swiss Bank vault somewhere :confused:

[Eastcowzer]

Used to be Fuglers......haha

 

Now Bulsara & Co.

 

http://www.balsara.co.uk/

 

Surely not Freddie (Mercury) Bulsara & Queen.

[slickmick]

Daily Torygraph

 

Andrew Andronikou, the Portsmouth administrator, has admitted that he cannot yet confirm whether the £15 million that has been promised by owner Balram Chainrai will be given to the club or would place even further debt on the company.

 

 

 

Do they communicate via courier pigeon ?

[Gorgiesaint]

A couple of observations on the press reports following yesterday's events.

 

The Times have quoted Andy:

 

“

In simple terms, they questioned whether Portpin had actually advanced any money to the company, which is strange, because in November Portpin paid about £5 million of PAYE and VAT for them,” Andronikou said. “Unfortunately, you can’t stand up in court and state the obvious

."

 

Actually Andy, you can. You just pass a note forward to your Counsel. But, of course, you wouldn't bother (or he would just ignore it) if it didn't help your case. One of our learned colleagues helpfully posted on here that a charge must be registered within 21 days of the relevant transaction. Portpin must show that it has lent new money to PCFC after 17th December for the January 7th charge, and subsequent administration arising from it, to be effective.

 

I think that's very significant. If there was any new money after 17th December, I would have expected Andy to have known about it. And if there was, and he knew about it, I would have expected him to have said so.

 

The other interesting point is regarding the number of reports that Baloo has provided £15m to Andy to "see him through". Of course, he hasn't. Mr. Mitchell and the Judge clearly said so. Mr. Barker provided a letter from a bank (BNP Paribas?) that Baloo has £15m in an account, which could be made available (or words to that effect). If Andy had £15m from Baloo, which on his version is far more than he needs, why would he need to go to the PL to ask for an advance on tv money and parachute payments? The club would be a far more saleable asset with future parachute payments intact to ease the pain.

 

If I was on the PL board, I would be asking Andy why he wants an advance now, when he's already on the record as saying he has £15m from Baloo in his pocket to get to the end of admin? Why not just let the new owners, who are queueing up to buy this bargain, buy the club and sort out the required CVA with HMRC and everybody else, and then use the parachute payments for the purpose for which they were intended?

 

Baloo has no intention of putting any more of his money into the club. He wants as much as he can get back (or out). That's why Andy is going cap in hand to the PL.

 

If Andy does have the balls to continue in the meantime, I genuinely feel sorry for those who will find themselves out of a job in the next few days. With very few exceptions, they were not responsible for this mess.

 

 

I don't think they'll be wound up at the next hearing, despite what HMRC say. I expect PCFC to make their contingent application for a Court-appointed administrator (and ask for that Court-apointed administrator to be Andy & Co.), before the hearing. The running order on the day would then be:

 

1. Consideration of the propriety of Andy's appointment

2. Consideration for contingent application to appoint administrators (Andy)

3. Winding up petition

 

Based on what we know so far, I would expect HMRC to win on 1. It will then move on to 2.

 

In my experience, Courts do tend to lean towards the "poor little guy" who has unfortunately found himself in difficulty, but is trying to do the decent thing to get out of it. So I think there is a strong possibility that the Court will appoint administrators, but it won't be Andy & Co.

 

On that basis the WUP will remain stayed.

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

 

Good observations Hutch and would agree with you. One question however.

 

Can (and would) the courts accept a court appointed administrator on the basis that Baloo transfers the £15m to an account controlled by the administrator - and failure to comply with that, the court will move on to 3. the winding up order?

Edited 4 March, 2010 by Gorgiesaint
spelling

[hutch]

And another thing (as they say), Andy was quoted in the BBC article referenced earlier:

 

"

However, he said he is keen not to to go down the route of selling players because it would weaken the team and could therefore devalue the Premier League run-in.

"

 

So, Andy, that would be the same weakened team that SHOULD have played in all of the previous league and cup games this season?

[slickmick]

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

 

 

Won't the court administrator approach the PL prior to acting for PFC ?

Surely they won't touch them unless Baloo or the PL offer to help, which would mean they will be wound up ?

[Danish Saint]

Based on the comments, it's clear he doesn't have a clue...

 

We want the parachute money.... but we also want to keep a strong team in order to survive.

 

We in administration - but we shouldn't be docked points for that at all!

 

 

Are they off their meds?

[The9]

It is so abundantly clear that the cornerstone of Androids plan revolves asking the EPL to bend the rules allowing PFC a chance to remain in the Prem - Whether it be waiving the 9 points penalty and/or a special transfer window for them that involves a loan back option.

Other than this fantasy wish list, he does not seem to have any other plan at all!

Desperate stuff.

 

To be fair, this is exactly what he said in the press conference live on SSN last week, when he had a shred of credibility because people hadn't figured out he was just one of Chainrai's lot and the best placed person to try and cover up the financial irregularities which may cost them -15 if not the club altogether.

 

My post here : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=630558&postcount=18068 covers what he said - I still think it's hilarious that THE ADMINISTRATOR is going to turn up to argue that they shouldn't be deducted 9 for being in administration.

[sidthesquid]

Yet another classis post from the News site:

 

As I have asked twice before but no answers posted, has anyone living in Portsmouth contacted their MP to ask them to enquire of HMRC why they are taking such an unreasonable and irrational attitude to PFC?

 

Does anyone on that inbred island have any morals (or possibly a brain) at all?

[Guided Missile]

I don't think they'll be wound up at the next hearing, despite what HMRC say. I expect PCFC to make their contingent application for a Court-appointed administrator (and ask for that Court-apointed administrator to be Andy & Co.), before the hearing. The running order on the day would then be:

 

1. Consideration of the propriety of Andy's appointment

2. Consideration for contingent application to appoint administrators (Andy)

3. Winding up petition

 

Based on what we know so far, I would expect HMRC to win on 1. It will then move on to 2.

 

In my experience, Courts do tend to lean towards the "poor little guy" who has unfortunately found himself in difficulty, but is trying to do the decent thing to get out of it. So I think there is a strong possibility that the Court will appoint administrators, but it won't be Andy & Co.

 

On that basis the WUP will remain stayed.

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

 

This is where you and I differ. I don't think Chanrai lent any money to PCFC and he is not about to start, now. The only way a newly appointed receveiver will allow PCFC to continue trading, is if there is cash in the bank to allow it to, without making the existing creditors positions worse. The only way that will happen is via a cash advance from the EPL, the sale of assets, i.e. players, or the injection of equity (not a loan) from the shareholders or a new investor. Apart from those three options, I'm struggling to figure out other ways of keeping this circus going.

 

I think that the suggestion of impropriety, particularly when the HMRC get to review the activity in the Fuglers client account, with regard to the administration, may mean that the whole money laundering suspicion surrounding this rotting corpse may push the judge in a completely new direction. I don't think there is a "poor little guy" in this case. It's more like "big rich crooks" that are the major creditors and I would love it if the judge winds the club up and allows these gun running crooks to dangle in the wind.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Meeting-with-Premier-League-chief.6122600.jp

. . . .

 

'It makes logical sense. This is our money, we just haven't received it yet,' he said.

 

So wants the PL to turn a blind eye to blatant cheating and let them count as assets stuff they don't have.

 

Priceless horsesh!t.

 

I reckon, at 54 years of age, that I will earn (at my current rate) some 500k before I retire. That is my money, I just haven't received it yet.

 

Any bets on whether my employer would advance me that sum?

 

I'll turn up every day guv, honest, f'sure!

 

 

Oh! but how will I live for the next 12 years after spending that sum on rare soul records?

[Eastcowzer]

I came up with that as well. :confused:

 

I have to admit to struggling with this one as I'm not very good at cross-words.

 

I suspect the actual answer is some-what more devious

 

It also fits a bath/sink to keep the water in.

[hutch]

Can (and would) the courts accept a court appointed administrator on the basis that Baloo transfers the £15m to an account controlled by the administrator - and failure to comply with that, the court will move on to 3. the winding up order?

I would expect the Court to want to deal with all the issues on the day. If that was an issue, and I think it probably is, I would expect HMRC's lawyers to deal with it in advance, and have the up to date situation in the papers in Court, even if that was that they had not received a satisfactory response.

[Red Alert]

It also fits a bath/sink to keep the water in.

 

You are thinking plug, where I am sure the word bung would be more appropriate?

[hutch]

This is where you and I differ. I don't think Chanrai lent any money to PCFC and he is not about to start, now. The only way a newly appointed receveiver will allow PCFC to continue trading, is if there is cash in the bank to allow it to, without making the existing creditors positions worse. The only way that will happen is via a cash advance from the EPL, the sale of assets, i.e. players, or the injection of equity (not a loan) from the shareholders or a new investor. Apart from those three options, I'm struggling to figure out other ways of keeping this circus going.

 

I think that the suggestion of impropriety, particularly when the HMRC get to review the activity in the Fuglers client account, with regard to the administration, may mean that the whole money laundering suspicion surrounding this rotting corpse may push the judge in a completely new direction. I don't think there is a "poor little guy" in this case. It's more like "big rich crooks" that are the major creditors and I would love it if the judge winds the club up and allows these gun running crooks to dangle in the wind.

I'm not sure that we do differ, Guided. I don't think that Baloo lent any money to PCFC either. That's why I said he wants his money ... back (or out). He certainly won't start now.

 

It's a convenient way out. The Judge "fires" Andy & Co., and appoints independent administrators. The independent administrators, absent Baloo's £15m, take one quick look at the patient, decide he's dead, and pull the plug unless they can get an advance from the PL.

 

As for the details of the Fugler account, that will be a very interesting show, but probably far wider than just the immediate future of the Pompey football club. Offshore payments? Image rights? Who knows what gems that might contain?

Edited 4 March, 2010 by hutch

[slickmick]

I'm not sure that we do differ, Guided. I don't think that Baloo lent any money to PCFC either. That's why I said he wants his money ... back (or out). He certainly won't start now.

 

It's a convenient way out. The Judge "fires" Andy & Co., and appoints independent administrators. The independent administrators, absent Baloo's £15m, take one quick look at the patient, decide he's dead, and pull the plug unless they can get an advance from the PL.

 

As for the details of the Fugler account, that will be a very interesting show, but probably far wider than just the immediate future of the Pompey football club. Offshore payments? Image rights? Who knows what gems that might contain?

 

 

In your opinion, what do you think the percentage chances are of Pompey being wound up before the end of the season ?

[solentstars]

A couple of observations on the press reports following yesterday's events.

 

The Times have quoted Andy:

 

“

In simple terms, they questioned whether Portpin had actually advanced any money to the company, which is strange, because in November Portpin paid about £5 million of PAYE and VAT for them,” Andronikou said. “Unfortunately, you can’t stand up in court and state the obvious

."

 

Actually Andy, you can. You just pass a note forward to your Counsel. But, of course, you wouldn't bother (or he would just ignore it) if it didn't help your case. One of our learned colleagues helpfully posted on here that a charge must be registered within 21 days of the relevant transaction. Portpin must show that it has lent new money to PCFC after 17th December for the January 7th charge, and subsequent administration arising from it, to be effective.

 

I think that's very significant. If there was any new money after 17th December, I would have expected Andy to have known about it. And if there was, and he knew about it, I would have expected him to have said so.

 

The other interesting point is regarding the number of reports that Baloo has provided £15m to Andy to "see him through". Of course, he hasn't. Mr. Mitchell and the Judge clearly said so. Mr. Barker provided a letter from a bank (BNP Paribas?) that Baloo has £15m in an account, which could be made available (or words to that effect). If Andy had £15m from Baloo, which on his version is far more than he needs, why would he need to go to the PL to ask for an advance on tv money and parachute payments? The club would be a far more saleable asset with future parachute payments intact to ease the pain.

 

If I was on the PL board, I would be asking Andy why he wants an advance now, when he's already on the record as saying he has £15m from Baloo in his pocket to get to the end of admin? Why not just let the new owners, who are queueing up to buy this bargain, buy the club and sort out the required CVA with HMRC and everybody else, and then use the parachute payments for the purpose for which they were intended?

 

Baloo has no intention of putting any more of his money into the club. He wants as much as he can get back (or out). That's why Andy is going cap in hand to the PL.

 

If Andy does have the balls to continue in the meantime, I genuinely feel sorry for those who will find themselves out of a job in the next few days. With very few exceptions, they were not responsible for this mess.

 

 

I don't think they'll be wound up at the next hearing, despite what HMRC say. I expect PCFC to make their contingent application for a Court-appointed administrator (and ask for that Court-apointed administrator to be Andy & Co.), before the hearing. The running order on the day would then be:

 

1. Consideration of the propriety of Andy's appointment

2. Consideration for contingent application to appoint administrators (Andy)

3. Winding up petition

 

Based on what we know so far, I would expect HMRC to win on 1. It will then move on to 2.

 

In my experience, Courts do tend to lean towards the "poor little guy" who has unfortunately found himself in difficulty, but is trying to do the decent thing to get out of it. So I think there is a strong possibility that the Court will appoint administrators, but it won't be Andy & Co.

 

On that basis the WUP will remain stayed.

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

 

good post and makes interesting reading.

[Sour Mash]

I've still got a sickening feeling they're going to fluke a win against Brum on Sat and will have cheated themselves to another Wembley appearance. Horrible, jammy, cheating t***s.

[hutch]

In your opinion, what do you think the percentage chances are of Pompey being wound up before the end of the season ?

I have no way of answering that. We haven't seen any of the documents.

 

For my part, I am only speculating, based on the conduct of the various characters involved, and statements and articles from the media, weighted as appropriate.

 

But it is certainly possible.

[hutch]

I've still got a sickening feeling they're going to fluke a win against Brum on Sat and will have cheated themselves to another Wembley appearance. Horrible, jammy, cheating t***s.

It would probably help if you ask nickh to say the same thing.

[Weston Saint]

I don't think they'll be wound up at the next hearing, despite what HMRC say. I expect PCFC to make their contingent application for a Court-appointed administrator (and ask for that Court-apointed administrator to be Andy & Co.), before the hearing. The running order on the day would then be:

 

1. Consideration of the propriety of Andy's appointment

2. Consideration for contingent application to appoint administrators (Andy)

3. Winding up petition

 

Based on what we know so far, I would expect HMRC to win on 1. It will then move on to 2.

 

In my experience, Courts do tend to lean towards the "poor little guy" who has unfortunately found himself in difficulty, but is trying to do the decent thing to get out of it. So I think there is a strong possibility that the Court will appoint administrators, but it won't be Andy & Co.

 

On that basis the WUP will remain stayed.

 

But watch how quickly Baloo's £15m disappears. However, at that time, if the proper administrators believe that an "advance" to get through the administration process (and to the end of the season and avoid having to expunge Pompey's results) is in the best interests of the creditors, the PL might then take a different approach.

 

Agree, I have been saying this since Monday afternoon

[dubai_phil]

Agree, I have been saying this since Monday afternoon

 

And The Android's fees will be covered by the Gate receipts of Saturday's match even if he does get kicked out.

[hutch]

Agree, I have been saying this since Monday afternoon

That's good. But I don't any more (agree with myself, I mean).

 

If we read things correctly, there is no point in them proceeding with 1. in Court on the day. In fact it would be harmful. If I were them, I would, just before the hearing, concede 1. with glossed-up spinning press releases and p.r. statements (transparency, in the interests of justice, lifting of shadows, etc.), and proceed straight with 2. by asking the Judge to make Andy & Co. Court-appointed administrators.

 

We might get some pointers by seeing how much actual "administrating" they do between now and then.